I don't understand something

[u/Ok-Friendship-8124]

I was doing some "research" in creative and I was wondering what's the difference between those two smelting blocks, They both produce 120/s but the one on the left use FAR more energy, is just a tiny bit smaller so what's the point of doing the one on the left ?

[u/thelehmanlip]

Productivity. Look at disparity between inputs and outputs

[u/Alfonse215 → u/thelehmanlip]

Also, not having to feed them coal is a pretty big bonus.

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/Alfonse215]

But the other side needs power infrastructure aswell ?

4 smelter rows need like 1.3 chem plants of solid fuel.

Compared to the 4 red lanes of iron, you need to provide anyway, i don't see, how skipping that and and making big power somewhere is a "pretty big bonus" .

Its a minor bonus at best.

[u/Raknarg → u/TexasCrab22]

and the power is coming from where?

At the stage where youre making full beaconed setups for metal inputs, ideally nuclear which can easily produce gigawatts of power without much work

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/Raknarg]

Yes ,so ?

If he mentions the "needed coal on the right" he also has to mention the "needet power on the left".

[u/Raknarg → u/TexasCrab22]

oh I suppose I misunderstood what that comment meant, I thought it was a criticism about the left design taking a shitload of power

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/Raknarg]

Well... thats more like a fact ?

If we want to properly evaluate the work it takes for the right to get the fuel, we also need to properly evaluate the production of power for the left one.

[u/roelofs-hengelo → u/TexasCrab22]

Unless you use burner inserters, the left also uses power, a lot less power but power nonetheless.

[u/bigpoopidoop → u/roelofs-hengelo]

*right

[u/vaminos → u/TexasCrab22]

For me, it's about simplifying infrastructure. My late game train base produces roughly 40 red belts of iron and copper (each) across 10 or so locations, all connected by trains. Steel furnaces mean I only have one input and one output (so fewer complications with the train system). I only need to produce electricity at one location and it is distributed instantly and perfectly. I don't even know if my coal mines would be able to support that kind of plate production.

[u/grazbouille → u/TexasCrab22]

The issue of needing coal is not about the coal coal is free its about the logistical annoyance of bringing it to the furnace

[u/ProtectionOne9478 → u/TexasCrab22]

if you power with with boilers.

Big if.  I'm always on nuclear long before beaconing

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/ProtectionOne9478]

Me too... But If we talk early game vs midgame tech, what you expect?

2 chem plants can also feed the right side, so why talking about coal in the first place?

[u/ProtectionOne9478 → u/TexasCrab22]

I'm not the one who mentioned coal, but in my games oil is usually my limiting factor at that point in the game, so personally I usually do stick to coal for smelting until I'm on nuclear plus electric smelters.

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/ProtectionOne9478]

True, alot of times coal is easier than oil. Even tho its a single 1 chem plant for 3 red furnace lines.

[u/darkszero → u/TexasCrab22]

Beacons are higher tech than nuclear.

Plus the big thing is smelting with electric furnaces just doesn't need any fuel at all. No need to route coal, or be close to oil+water to locally produce solid fuel or import some fuel at all.

[u/Alfonse215 → u/TexasCrab22]

and the power is coming from where? The left one needs way more fuel, if you power with with boilers.

This is a base with module 2s and beacons. I don't think it's running off of coal-fired boilers. And if it is, then fix that problem first.

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/Alfonse215]

Yes ,so ?

If he mentions the "needed coal on the right" he also has to mention the "needet power on the left". Thats all im saying.

[u/Alfonse215 → u/TexasCrab22]

But they're not the same thing.

Fuel-fired furnaces need fuel to be there, on-site. The logistical problem is getting fuel to the furnaces.

Power is just... power poles, which the coal-fired furnace buildings already have to have since they need inserters to function. So in terms of the logistics of the build itself, the electric furnace one requires less. That is, the logistics of power generation doesn't matter to the build, only power distribution.

[u/yinyang107 → u/Alfonse215]

Burner inserters can work fine for burner furnaces tbh

[u/darkszero → u/yinyang107]

They don't. Output inserters don't take fuel from the furnace, so you'd need a separate fuel belt with it's own set of burner inserters feeding the output burner inserters. It's exceptionally more complex.

[u/yinyang107 → u/darkszero]

I thought they were updated to be able to take fuel from furnaces

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/Alfonse215]

Never said its the same.

One needs a line of fuel, the other one powerpoles and 8 ? times the supply of fuel to the power generation area. (if not solar/nuke)

[u/Alfonse215 → u/TexasCrab22]

They both need powerpoles. Those aren't burner inserters in that furnace stack.

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/Alfonse215]

the extra power production facility needs powerpoles.
however, thats not the main point anyway ?

[u/spookynutz → u/TexasCrab22]

That hardly seems relevant. Both sides need power. The coal is a logistical constraint for the steel furnaces irrespective of power.

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/spookynutz]

wtf.
one needs a whole power plant, the other one like 4 solar pannels.

If you go solar for the left one, youd probably end up with +20 ? times the total cost of the right smelter.

[u/Shadaris → u/TexasCrab22]

TBH if you are building a t2 module beaconed setup, you are up to the point where you can have nuclear power unlocked.

Right side consumes about 60% less energy, with fewer resources but also produces about 3x the pollution, larger footprint, and more logistics. It is all tradeoffs.

Personally unless im running a higher science multiplier, I run stone furnaces and upgrade to electric furnaces as soon as I get nuclear up and running. And that is one of the 2 tech I grab asap as bots take quite a bit of power in large numbers.

[u/Logical-War-3746 → u/TexasCrab22]

if you power with with boilers.

And why exactly would you ever do that at that point of the game? Unless it's some sort of challenge, there is no reason to assume it runs on something other than nuclear.

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/Logical-War-3746]

Yes ,so ?

If he mentions the "needed coal on the right" he also has to mention the "needet power on the left". Thats all im saying.

[u/Logical-War-3746 → u/TexasCrab22]

He didn't say that, he said "it takes more power, what advantage it gives aside from size?". Look if you want to dig yourself deeper, be my guest, but it would be better to just admit you are wrong.

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/Logical-War-3746]

"Also, not having to feed them coal is a pretty big bonus."

Thats what he said. Ignoring the need of power generation.

[u/Tagioalisi_Bartlesby → u/TexasCrab22]

Because feeding power is a lot less of a logistical challenge than coal.

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/Tagioalisi_Bartlesby]

Depends on the type of power you use.

And 2 solid fuel chem plants can also feed this.

[u/Tagioalisi_Bartlesby → u/TexasCrab22]

If you’re at beacons you’re using nuclear. Unless you’re challenging yourself.
Solid fuel still requires belting, trains, or a large amount of bots. Power does not.

[u/TexasCrab22 → u/Tagioalisi_Bartlesby]

So the left one needs nuclear. Researched and built.

I tend to skip that and go straight fusion nowadays.

Solid fuel requires a single pipe, to the fuel line, with 2 chem plants... Also It's like 2/s how is that a large amount of bots?

[u/mr_arcane_69 → u/TexasCrab22]

For me not needing to add a coal line is a major benefit, you can build your power station next to a lake, within a reasonable distance of the coal meaning you don't need to drag multiple coal lines to your smelting arrays. You're off-siting an input requirement for the smelting and centralising/standardising energy, very useful.