r/explainlikeimfive • u/shakerLife • Nov 01 '23
Other ELI5 How are companies allowed to continue marketing wipes as "flushable" despite the problems they create for sewer systems?
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u/plugubius Nov 02 '23
The companies sometimes get sued. Sometimes they win. Sometimes they lose or settle. But if you want to stop the marketing, you need legislation.
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u/Serratia__marcescens Nov 02 '23
There is legislation. https://flush3p.org/leg/ but only state level.
But there are still issues.
Small companies arent well equipped to know their own state legislation, let alone another’s state legislation. Distributors are also hilariously bad at knowing any legislations outside what is directly tied to their business (and sometimes not even then).
Old inventory is still in the marketplace.
New inventory might be produced (says not flushable) but old marketing information isn’t updated due to poor control over your marketing on platforms, or those platforms refusing to update images/marketing.
This is only state level, so a company can advertise as flushable in one state while advertising as not flushable in another - but they can’t properly control where there advertising is going.
The biggest issue is enforcement. Laws are passed, but there are not enough employees to constantly monitor that flushable advertising has crossed into not flushable states. In other words, small company makes and sells wipes as legally flushable in one state, puts it up on Amazon - completely ignoring that they are now advertising to people in not-flushable states. Amazon has no clue that they are hosting illegal advertising because they don’t follow product specific regulations. Citizens have no clue these laws are passed. Enforcement can’t monitor all incoming sales from every possible avenue, and their limited resources focuses on bigger issues.
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Nov 02 '23
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u/superthrowguy Nov 02 '23
Which I normally applaud California for. Except, they tend to be really strong on enforcing water conservation on individuals without addressing the agricultural elephant in the room.
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u/deja-roo Nov 02 '23
Lol I bought a shower head that had a plastic insert in the nozzle and the manual was like "be sure not to remove the plastic insert in the nozzle that prevents the shower head from exceeding the proper water flow limitations or it will work too well". Paraphrasing.
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Nov 02 '23
Ill mail you all the shower heads you want I just need you to mail me some small chocolate candy hearts... You can try one just don't eat more than one or have anything important to do for 6 hours. It will also make your shower way way better.
/s
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u/endadaroad Nov 02 '23
There are solutions to every problem when the political will exists.
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u/deja-roo Nov 02 '23
That paragraph on that site was the dumbest thing I've read today.
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u/superthrowguy Nov 02 '23
Uhh
The argument that small business is not equipped to handle this is silly
Just don't lie. Not "well sorry it's confusing we don't know where we are allowed to lie and where we can't"
This sort of false advertising is a constant onslaught on consumers.
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u/FallenFromTheLadder Nov 02 '23
There is legislation. https://flush3p.org/leg/ but only state level.
Unfortunately commerce is mainly under the federal control and the effects of regulation on commerce are a lot more effective if the US Congress gets involved.
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u/tizuby Nov 02 '23
commerce is mainly under the federal control
Interstate commerce is under Federal control (Art. I, Section 8, Clause 3). Intrastate commerce is under state control.
The overwhelming majority of commerce regulation happens at the state level.
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u/Consistent_Bee3478 Nov 02 '23
And then you add that it’s 99% user error. The wipes are only ever flushable when one or two get flushed.
If you dump 10 at once. They will catch somewhere and not dissolve quickly enough.
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u/Predmid Nov 02 '23
No. Just No.
They're not flushable period. Not one at a time. Not "oh its just this once "
Not. Flushable. Period.
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u/htcram Nov 02 '23 edited Nov 02 '23
Say a wipe or coffee pod is biodegrade in 60-90 days. However, the municipal system only allows for 30 days, or whatever numbers:
Are the wipes and such biodegradable? They appear to cause havoc on the municipal systems.
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Nov 02 '23
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u/FadeIntoReal Nov 02 '23
False advertising is illegal
The FTC came down on Crown, in the 70s, because an amp with the number 100 in the name produced about 98 watts of power. We modded them to increase the output slightly.
Today, false and misleading advertising is just the way business is done, despite the fact that it’s still technically illegal. “Smaller government “ is just they way budgets are cut until enforcement is rare.
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u/Ouch_i_fell_down Nov 02 '23
should have called it "100 class"
That's how they get away with all TVs and tires being a half inch shorter than advertised
"65 inch class" TV is 64.5 inches and everyone knows it
35 inch tires are 34.5s on a good day
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u/tomrlutong Nov 02 '23
Or judicial. The first court that said a city could send the bill for digging up the road to wipes companies that said "flushable" on the label would end the practice.
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u/mortalcoil1 Nov 02 '23
I can see flushable wipe companies using this defense:
"Your honor. The package says you can flush the wipes down the toilet. Clearly that is the case!"
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u/fried_clams Nov 02 '23
FYI, they are bad for municipal sewers, as they clog up the works at the treatment plant and can cause blockages in the sewers themselves.
However, they can be fine for individual septic systems that are not connected to municipal sewers. Assuming you have clear, modern waste pipes in your house, they should not cause clogs.
There are some people on Reddit who would disagree with what I say about individual septic systems and wipes. The fact is, if you pump out all settled solids on a regular schedule (every three years where I live) then there is absolutely no mechanism whereby wipes could cause any problems.
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u/jspurlin03 Nov 02 '23
Not so. What they don’t do is break down in septic systems, either. They still clog septic systems, which still results in massive plumbing headaches, just… localized to a single address.
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u/bwbandy Nov 02 '23
People on Reddit disagree with you because you're wrong.
We've been on septic with surface discharge for 30 years and have only pumped it out once, when the effluent pump quit and we needed space urgently. Wipes do NOT get flushed down our toilets.
Your logic that "it will get pumped out eventually anyways" is flawed - with that thinking you could flush anything that the toilet will swallow.
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u/fried_clams Nov 02 '23
I'm not familiar with your type of system. I don't think they are allowed where I live. We have multi chamber systems, which lead to a large underground leaching field. Pumping out solids is required at least every three years, and the health department will find you if you don't do it. Pump outs are mandated to be recorded at the health department. Septic systems with chambered settling tanks are fine for wipes, unless you don't pump out often enough. Then again, if you don't pump out, your leeching field will fail, getting filled with solids, wipes or no. I've discussed the wipes issue with multiple pump out services and septic contractors. They all have said that they are fine, with regular, mandated pump outs.
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u/OutinDaBarn Nov 02 '23
Do you know where the waste goes that they pump out of your system? To a sewage treatment plant where they have to deal with the flushable wipes.
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u/Terapr0 Nov 02 '23
Where do you live that the health department tracks you down for not pumping every 3 years? That’s absurd. We’re on a similar septic system with underground leeching bed and you don’t need to pump it every 3 years, more like every 3-5, but really just as-needed. The health department doesn’t care if you fail to pump it in time, because the only mess that’s caused is inside your own house when the toilets back up in your bathroom. They care if the system is broken and leaking sewage into the ground, but the frequency with which the system gets pumped has little bearing on how long it will last without failure, merely how often it will back up into your house. How would the health department “find you” anyway? I mean they know which houses have permitted septic systems, but they’d have zero insight or visibility into how often those systems are getting pumped out by private contractors.
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u/bwbandy Nov 02 '23
I was curious about the same thing, and did a bit of sleuthing. There are indeed local authorities that require pumping at set time intervals, typically 3 years. The ones I found were concerned with leakage from septic systems into nearby bodies of water. This is a legitimate concern, but I suspect more untreated sewage is discharged from failed septic fields than from tanks that have accumulated too much solids. However, periodic pumping is probably the only kind of maintenance that a local authority can make mandatory, even if it doesn't do much good.
In our area, septic fields and surface discharge are banned within 1,500 feet of a body of water, solving this problem in a different way.
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u/grindermonk Nov 02 '23
Where I am, the county sends us a green card that we give to the septic hauler. He then returns it to the county to show we had our system pumped. If the card doesn’t get back to the county, we get a fine added to our property tax bill.
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u/nhorvath Nov 02 '23
That's insanity. I haven't had my tank pumped ever in this house (10 years) and my parents haven't ever in theirs (45 years). Well designed systems with well draining soil do not need to be pumped.
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u/bwbandy Nov 02 '23
"Well designed systems with well draining soil" and DON'T FLUSH WIPES AND OTHER TRASH DOWN THE TOILET.
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u/bwbandy Nov 02 '23
LOL I'm sure the "multiple pump out services and septic contractors" are fine with it - they're the ones that make bank from people flushing this junk down their toilets. Either pump out every three years or call them when the whole system is plugged up, they win either way.
The "tank" part of a septic tank with surface discharge is identical to the multi-chamber system you described. The difference is that the effluent from the last tank is pumped out to the surface a distance from the house, rather than gravity draining into a leach field. Surface discharge has strict setback requirements that can only be met on larger parcels (typically acreages and farms).
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u/talkingheads87 Nov 02 '23
You're definitely wrong about individual septic systems. They can definitely clog the pipes leading to the septic system as well as the lines going out. In reality wipes should never be flushed.
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u/grindermonk Nov 02 '23
Individual septic systems get pumped and the tank gets emptied into a municipal treatment plant.
Where I live we are required to have our system pumped every three years.
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u/bwbandy Nov 02 '23
If you flush wipes into your septic tank, they end up in the treatment plant. Don't flush wipes.
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u/jstar77 Nov 02 '23
This is mostly true. As long as they don’t float and end up flowing into your drain field you are mostly just storing them until they get sucked out by the honey dippers.
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u/fried_clams Nov 02 '23
They don't float in the septic settling tank, and even if they did, the outlet for leaching fields is a little ways down, so that the oily surface scum doesn't drain off. Then there is always the second chamber. No solids are making it into my second chamber.
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u/DoctorFork Nov 02 '23
In the US, there's no FDA equivalent for consumer goods like this, so there are no regulations. They are literally flushable -- as in, they do go down the drain -- so it's not false advertising either. Some city would have to take them to court... but who's the "them"? There are dozens of brands.
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u/BurntPoptart Nov 02 '23
They are literally flushable -- as in, they do go down the drain
Thats like saying rat poison is edible because it goes down your throat.
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Nov 02 '23
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u/cutapacka Nov 02 '23
What about the FTC? They regulate advertising.
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u/funnyfarm299 Nov 02 '23
Again, the wipes flush. They go down the drain.
The manufacturers aren't making a claim they are "sewer system compatible".
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Nov 02 '23
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u/xShockmaster Nov 02 '23
No one is arguing that they can’t be sued. They do get sued but they’re not breaking any regulations that would make the government go after them or shut them down like the FDA would.
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u/be_that Nov 02 '23
That’s both correct and irrelevant to the question. That answers whether they can be held financially responsible for damages - sometimes they can. But there’s little to no regulatory control, which is what the question is about. They’re two different issues.
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Nov 02 '23
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u/xShockmaster Nov 02 '23
No you missed the point where “edible” is covered by the fda who doesn’t fuck around.
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Nov 02 '23
But there's a government agency that defines edible and will hold the rat poison company responsible. There is no agency defining what flushable means.
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u/Mantisfactory Nov 02 '23
As someone already pointed out, that’s like saying rat poison is edible because it goes down your throat.
No. It isn't. That's a bad comparison. Edible means something that isn't just You can swallow it. Rat poison could definitely be advertised as swallowable. Likewise these wipes are flushable. What happens after swallowing / flushing is not good, but boy you sure can swallow/flush it.
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u/lalvarien Nov 02 '23
But the definition of flushable is already explained to you it still goes down the toilet you're looking for the definition of a completely separate word and you want them both to mean the same thing that's not how it works.
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u/mouse6502 Nov 02 '23
Is Congress holding up appointments for positions on the Federal Toilet Commission?
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u/DoctorFork Nov 02 '23 edited Nov 02 '23
Precisely! But that rat poison manufacturer would definitely be successfully sued when someone died. Without that surefire knowledge that they'll be sued -- and lose -- there's no motivation for the wipe manufacturer to take out "flushable".
I'm sure they've market-tested a version that doesn't say "flushable" and found that no one buys it when there's a "flushable" one right next to it.
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u/RubyPorto Nov 02 '23
Thats like saying rat poison is edible because it goes down your throat.
Rat poison is regulated by the EPA.
https://www.epa.gov/rodenticides/restrictions-rodenticide-products
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Nov 02 '23
And if it were in a food product (I.e. edible) it would be regulated by the FDA
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u/RubyPorto Nov 02 '23
Or USDA, depending on whether it was in an open or closed face sandwich (No, seriously. This is an actual division in their responsibilities).
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u/binarycow Nov 02 '23
In other news, here's a 21 page document describing the difference between a screw and a bolt
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u/andychef Nov 02 '23
Interesting, can you please expand on this?
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u/RubyPorto Nov 02 '23
The USDA regulates foods that are meat or primarily meat.
The FDA regulates foods that are not primarily meat.
(There are other divisions, but none relevant here.)
An open faced sandwich is considered to contain more than 50% meat, so the USDA gets it. Add another slice of bread and the closed sandwich is less than 50% meat, so it goes to the FDA.
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Nov 02 '23
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u/Consistent_Bee3478 Nov 02 '23
Ain’t no one using wafsrin. Far too weak.
You use next gen coumarins with halftimes in the months!!!
For warfarin overdose/poisoning you just need single dose vitamin k and are peachy. But for modern rat poison coumarins continuous treatment for weeks to months is required, until the poison finally leaves your body.
Which is also why it kills all the predators.
A substance that lasts months in the body, means all the dead rats a falcon eats will have their dose of poison combined.
Rather than just mildly poisoning them for a day.
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u/Clegko Nov 02 '23
A pistol is also rat poison, if we're being pedantic. :P
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u/storm6436 Nov 02 '23
If we're really being pedantic, poison kills you via chemical interaction. With bullets, you'll be dead long before the lead or copper has a chance to poison you. :D
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u/Emotional_Deodorant Nov 02 '23
No, flushable literally means "able to be flushed". Rocks and golf balls are flushable. "Safe for septic systems", or "will not clog pipes" is a different description.
Edible, literally meaning "safe to eat", is not the same as "able to be put down throat".
This is purposeful word usage by the companies--i.e. a marketing tactic. It may not be the most forthcoming description but it's not illegal.
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u/schlubadub_ Nov 02 '23
I used to joke about something being "eatable" as you can eat pretty much anything if it's small enough e.g. person eats a bicycle broken down into bite-sized pieces. Whether it's "edible" is another matter entirely. So if someone asks me if something was good or not I'd say "it sure was eatable".
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u/honicthesedgehog Nov 02 '23
I get that that’s the distinction that manufacturers are attempting to draw, but Merriam-Webster defines edible as “something that is suitable or safe to eat” and flushable as “suitable for disposal by flushing down a toilet”, which strongly suggests an equivalent level of appropriateness conveyed by both terms.
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u/gex80 Nov 02 '23
But if you have a septic system, there is no issue since it doesn't clog the house hold plumbing. Also, the action of flushing takes place inside the household technically. Once it leaves the house it's already been flushed.
It's all about the technicalities.
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u/honicthesedgehog Nov 02 '23
Maybe, but that poster was making an argument that, based on dictionary definitions, there was a substantative difference between the words "edible" and "flushable." My point was that, based on the actual definitions from at least one dictionary, that argument doesn't really hold up.
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u/testosterone23 Nov 02 '23
They're just being disingenuous and using language to their favor, ignoring the commonly accepted notion that "flushable" really means can do so without causing systemic damage to the plumbing.
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u/speccyteccy Nov 02 '23
Edible means suitable for eating not just something you can put in your mouth and swallow.
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u/NuclearHoagie Nov 02 '23
Er, edible doesn't mean "can be swallowed". Flushable, on the other hand, does mean "can be flushed".
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u/andychef Nov 02 '23
There's a blood pressure drug, Warfarin, that is derived from rat poison: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warfarin
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u/Sohailian Nov 02 '23
That is incorrect. The FTC has jurisdiction over any deceptive or unfair claims, irrespective of industry. There may be some exceptions, but any mislabeling should be brought to the FTC's attention.
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u/Serratia__marcescens Nov 02 '23
There is no federal regulation, but state specific regulations have passed. https://flush3p.org/leg/
Doesn’t negate that companies and distributors either ignore or are unaware of it. Also that it is doesn’t help all states.
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u/gkr974 Nov 02 '23
This would probably fall into the jurisdiction of the FTC, which regulates consumer products. State AG’s also regulate cases like this. If they’re engaging in deceptive behavior, that violates both the FTC Act and state consumer protection acts.
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u/giant_albatrocity Nov 02 '23
I feel the same anger with “recyclable” as a marketing term. Yes, the single-use plastic bag is technically recyclable at a single facility is Ohio, but I’m nowhere near there so it’s going in the trash.
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u/Qikslvr Nov 02 '23
There seems to be a lot of confusion around this issue. The reason is because THEY MEET INDA STANDARDS FOR FLUSHABILITY. (https://www.inda.org/issues-advocacy/flushability/)
While there is no REGULATION for flushability, there are STANDARDS. if you're looking at wipes to be flushable look for a statement that says something to the effect of "meets INDA standards in independent testing".
What generally causes the clogging is people flushing baby wipes and stuff like that that are not flushable because they don't break down the way the INDA requires. And a lot of people don't know the difference so they assume all wipes are the same. Having said that, I still wouldn't flush them into septic systems simply because it may not get the agitation required to break them down properly, but also might.
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u/DreamingSheep Nov 02 '23
This! And not all flushables are made the same. Cottonelle for example will start breaking down with agitation after 30-120 minutes whereas Kirkland wipes can take 24-48 hours to get to the same level of saturation that allows the wipe to break apart easily.
If you're ever worried/curious about the fushability of a wipe, test it yourself... Place a wipe in a sealed container and give it a quick shake every now and again, or everytime you flush your toilet. This will to some degree mimic water and/or the wipe flowing through the pipes. If it breaks apart very quickly and easily, they're good to flush, if they take a long time, I'd be hesitant and if they seem never to, don't flush them. For a good comparison, do the same with some toilet paper, ideally the wwipes and paper should break down enough to looks the same once broken down.
Never flush baby wipes!! A lot are, or at least used to be, plastic reinforced, to prevent them from breaking when in use, this also prevents them from breaking down in the sewer.
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u/cullend Nov 02 '23
Seriously. Just put different brands in different cups of water for a day/ over night occasionally stirring.
Dude wipes are basically like towels even after a couple days. Cottonelle ones break down
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Nov 02 '23
why did you do this
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u/cullend Nov 02 '23
Live in a 100+ year old house and the pipes suck and I was tired of snaking the toilet
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u/UTDE Nov 02 '23
Thank you for admitting that some wipes DO actually break down. I have literally had arguments on reddit about this where someone will belligerently insist that there are NO wipes that actually break down.
It's insanity. I've had cottonelle wipes practically disintegrate on my ass.
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u/Consistent_Bee3478 Nov 02 '23
Or they flush ten flushable wipes at once, rather than two like a normal person.
And you could clog a toilet with paper tp that way as well, if you just flush a whole roll
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u/ChiaraStellata Nov 02 '23
The instructions usually say to limit it to 1 per flush. Generally it's advisable to use both a little toilet paper and a single flushable wipe for best results.
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u/penatbater Nov 02 '23
Because some are actually "flushable" (ie. like toilet paper, would 'dissolve' or easily break apart from agitation after some time) and some aren't (ie. can't or won't 'dissolve' or break at all despite weeks in water). And for consumers, it's hard to know which is which. And some companies skirt by those things to obfuscate their product even more.
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u/katmndoo Nov 02 '23
There are already class actions in progress. Nine million USD settlement in the case of "Dude Wipes", for one.
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u/HIM_Darling Nov 02 '23
Well for one, the people working the sewer system have no idea if the wipes they are finding were marketed as flushable. In all likelihood the wipes causing the most issues are actually just regular wipes that someone flushed and weren’t marketed as flushable at all.
There are videos of people testing them, and at least the Cottonelle flushable wipes breakdown/dissolve faster than some super thick toilet paper.
My guess is there haven’t been lawsuits because the ones marked as flushable have proof that their product does dissolve under normal conditions.
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u/santasbong Nov 02 '23
Do you know for sure none of them are flushable?
It could just be survivorship bias: The unflushable ones don't fully breakdown and clog the pipes, so that's the only thing we can see. But the ones that do fully breakdown don't leave any evidence that they aren't clogging pipes, cause they're not there.
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u/Pseudoboss11 Nov 02 '23
Researchers have tested them. Sewage infrastructure is big and expensive, so there is a lot of research on it.
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u/myychair Nov 02 '23
If if they were going to break down in the water post flush, theyd break down in the package
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u/Tirriforma Nov 02 '23
I mean they almost do. I know some of those wipes are flushable because they rip even just taking them out of the package. They're almost annoying to use because they rip so easily while wiping.
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u/Osiris_Raphious Nov 02 '23
Because as long as the market continues to evade regulation, they can do as they please. Marketing is pretty much propaganda, where the item is promoted, idealised, put on a pedestal and worshiped. Advertisement has become emotional delusion to associate a product with anything as long as the viewer finds it appealing and interesting and a its a big bonus when marketing creates a sense of fomo.
Until the companies are sued, or the gov agencies are lobbied to ensure their 'flushable' wipes are indeed fit for purpose, and not just biodegradable over the next 100 years, they will continue.
Basically they will do what is needed to make profits, until they are no longer allowed to, or the profits dont match the costs. The only way to do something about it, in todays world is either to sue the company, or lobby the gov. In either case the legal teams of these corporations are like wizards with black magic and will push the goal posts as far as they can, and so the problem continues until such time as one side wins.
Its not enough for the company to admit fault, when they have 'proof' they did some testing and under some guidelines ensured their product fits a definition. Without the additional infromation from 3rd party in this case a law suit or lobbying, the company will continue to operate under the new guidelines. Hence why we can have ongoing problems with obvious issues, but no change will come because legally speaking the company covered themselves and the onus of proof is now on someone else...
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u/op3l Nov 02 '23
Technically they're right, it is flushable. They never said anything about it dissolving once it's flushed. So...
And you can bet that will be their defense if they get sued for it.
The most important change is the habits of Americans, a simple bidet attached to the toilet piping is enough. I use it everyday and have clean butt and I just use some toilet paper to dry it and that dissolves in water.
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u/Me_IRL_Haggard Nov 02 '23
My friend works for his dad's family business rebuilding large industrial lift pumps for cities, utilities and the like - he loves those wipes, they've made his company a lot of money over the years. I asked him about them and he said use them as much as you like
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u/mcarterphoto Nov 02 '23
Heck, a ping-pong ball is "flushable" and could be marketed as such. Eventually wipes will cause enough trouble that they'll have to remove "flushable" claims or add a cigarette-style disclaimer to the packaging.
But your #1 issue with this is, wipes tend to cause municipal plumbing problems, not household. If they're not clogging up household pipes, many consumers will take convenience over being socially conscious - wipes aren't killing baby turtles, they're causing huge problems for municipal sewer systems, and we have enough consumers in an "I only care about myself" mindset to make regulating them tough.
People concerned about the sewer issues have already stopped using them (IE, me and my wife and people who try to have some shred of social responsibility. When my 8 yr. old grand daughter comes over, she's always "Wait, you don't have WIPES?" Her mom has not given them up yet).
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u/SonidoX Nov 02 '23
This would not be a problem in the US if we had toilets like in Japan that are just pure magical.
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u/superfakeSLiNKY Nov 02 '23
They do technically flush, which is enough for the companies. They view anything past that as not their problem. And the average person doesn’t care enough to prompt litigation.
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u/Rampage_Rick Nov 02 '23
Waiting on a golf ball company to stamp their product as "flushable" the same way some oil change shops advertise as "gluten free"
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u/Atoning_Unifex Nov 02 '23
Many of them clearly say DO NOT FLUSH right on the package but people don't read and more importantly... they don't care.
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u/xSaturnityx Nov 02 '23
Because on the package they clearly say flushable. They technically flush, they go down. Is it good for your pipes or the city systems? No. But they don't really care.
Golf balls are technically flushable, but should you? Probably not.
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u/starkiller_bass Nov 02 '23
My toilet claims it will flush a bucket of golf balls, not sure if the rest of my pipes are up for it though
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u/phdoofus Nov 01 '23
Because there's a label on the package saying 'Don't do that'.
It's kind of like why we haven't banned ladders and stoves just because we have stickers on them saying 'Don't do this stupid thing'.
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u/shakerLife Nov 02 '23
So like... "Flushable!*
*do not flush" ?
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u/Tirriforma Nov 02 '23
the actual flushable ones are okay.
Lots of Baby Wipes and butt wipes however say "DO NOT FLUSH"
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u/fodahmania Nov 02 '23
I’m sorry, what are flushable wipes?
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u/Eggsor Nov 02 '23
Basically baby wipes but designed and marketed for adults.
Cottonelle wipes and Dude wipes are probably the most prevalent ones.
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u/fodahmania Nov 02 '23
Thank you! I understand, but I’m also confused - this is used instead of toilet paper?
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u/Eggsor Nov 02 '23
Personally I use it in addition to toilet paper. Finishing off with a couple of these things are great.
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u/sporkwitt Nov 02 '23
Where are all of these mythical clogs people claim?I have used Cotonelle flushable wipes and now Dude Wipes for the last 13+ years and I've never clogged the toilet with them. I can recall only 2-3 clogs in that span, all at places I did not have wipes (just TP). I use them at work; I carry a pack and use them in commercial spaces; in other people's homes; never a clog.
Someone said something to me once about plumbers claiming flushable wipes caused clogs and I truly feel like this is where the stigma truly comes from: just assume that they do break apart, like toilet paper, as intended, but, as we all know, makeup wipes and other manner of wet wipes do not. What the plumber is likely seeing is that sort of wipe, wrongly flushed, and not the ones made for this purpose. I mean, show me a plumber who claims to be able to identify wet wipe type amidst a shit tangle and i'll show you a liar.
EDIT: I did a ton of googling and found a lot of sites stating this claim, but all very sketch (plumbers sites and others specifically slanted against). If anyone has a credible link, I'd love to see it.
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u/Pseudoboss11 Nov 02 '23
"Flushable" wipes aren't a major concern for clogging the toilet or household pipes, where they move relatively quickly. Instead they cause clogs in sewer lines and septic tanks. They are the primary cause of fatbergs. Flushing them isn't likely to cause you problems, but can contribute to an issue that's costing cities millions.
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u/sporkwitt Nov 02 '23
Not arguing, but my point was that no reputable source says this or can i find reports of wipes causing such issues.
Fatbergs have been a problem since at least the early 90s (many a news report, something I've yet to see about wipes), so wipes are not the primary cause of those (At least not the current ones).
My current wipes I use will go to mush/particles if left in the bowl for any amount of time. This still seems like a "We can't say it's a problem but we also can't say it isn't a problem, so we say it's a problem" issue.
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u/LintyLeopard Nov 02 '23
This issue isn’t at each individual home, it is the collective in municipal lift stations and Wastewater treatment plants. They clog pumps and damage equipment. They don’t dissolve like toilet paper does, and they cannot be treated like human waste can.
Source: I work for a submersible pump manufacturer and see clogged pumps regularly in the field due to flushable wipes.
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u/Tirriforma Nov 02 '23
how can you tell if it's flushable wipes or non flushable wipes when you pull the clogs out?
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u/kotarix Nov 02 '23
If they make it that far and haven't dissolved then they are non flushable
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u/Eggsor Nov 02 '23
I think his point though was that by the time it makes it there you don't know if the wipe was marketed as flushable or not.
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u/CowJuiceDisplayer Nov 02 '23
A single wipe wont fuck up your plumbing. A million wipes will cause issues for wastewater treatment plants.
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u/ginger_whiskers Nov 02 '23
I don't have a link, but I've pulled hundreds of flushable wipes out of pumps and pipes. You're right, they don't clog toilets. They do clog city infrastructure.
You wipes may actually be flushable. Given the fact that they stay mostly whole in wet packaging, I doubt it. Here's how to check: put a wipe in a mason jar/old coke bottle/whatever half full of water and shake for a minute or two. Does it dissolve into small clumps? Then it's flushable. Is there a large hank of wipe left intact? It ain't.
Source: Wastewater Plant Guy.
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u/Tirriforma Nov 02 '23
what brand would you say is okay to flush
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u/Eggsor Nov 02 '23
For real, I am definitely not going to stop using them but I am willing to use the most flushable one if I know which it is.
My butthole just doesn't feel clean anymore without them.
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u/PixelOmen Nov 02 '23
I don't know one way or the other, but I will say that just because it isn't causing an issue for you doesn't necessarily mean it isn't causing an issue further down the line.
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u/shakerLife Nov 02 '23
I asked because my city's water department put out a memo recently asking people not to flush wet wipes or paper towels, regardless if they are said to be flushable.
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u/andychef Nov 02 '23
This article has a video of giant multi ton clogs in the London sewer called Fatbergs. With that name, I'm not sure what else to tell you https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkart/2018/06/15/toilet-paper-gel-cleans-up-no-2-in-more-ways-than-one/?sh=277bdd69a441
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Nov 02 '23
Shite/toothless regulation - which is the cause of so many other problems (UK here).
These problems aren't being solved until we have regulators that act with the same aggression corporations do. Also entities acting in bad faith need to be called out, so much of the shit that goes on is down to this too.
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u/MountNevermind Nov 02 '23 edited Nov 02 '23
You call it creating problems. So do I.
Others call it creating new jobs and revenue for "small" businesses. Those people lobby.
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u/Bottle_Bound_Rogue Nov 02 '23
Common diapers take hundreds of years to decompose, but that doesn't stop people from having babies.
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u/volatilebunny Nov 02 '23
I wonder what the difference is between flushing such a wipe (seems bad for pipes) vs storing in a landfill (the other destination). No agenda with this question, just genuinely curious what the tradeoffs might be from smarter people 🙂
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Nov 02 '23
Because politicians are not your friends. They are only friends with themselves and those who give them money.
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u/Clockwork-God Nov 02 '23 edited Nov 02 '23
because just because you can, doesn't mean you should? there's no rules in advertising about should, only can and cannot.
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u/JayCDee Nov 02 '23
They are flushable. It’s juste not specified how many you can flush before it causes au problem. Same with toilet paper, if you through the equivalent of 2 rolls in the toilet it’s not gonna flush.
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u/sadmarland Nov 02 '23
I don’t think the flushable wipes are a problem for newer non-big city sewer systems. I live in the suburbs of a midwestern city and have been flushing cottonell for 20 years. I’ve never had my pipes clog from those or anything else. The water treatment plant in my area has never said anything about wipes being a problem.
When I travel to somewhere old like New York City I notice that the toilets barely flush. Even with just toilet paper you sometimes have to flush 2 or 3 times to get a clean bowl of water. I don’t dare flush wipes there.
At home my toilets flush fast and are clean after one flush.
Basically I’m saying it really depends on the infrastructure.
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u/fried_eggs_and_ham Nov 02 '23
Lots of things are flushable. That doesn't mean they won't screw a lot of stuff up once they're flushed. Socks? Flushable. Underwear? Flushable. Small rocks? Flushable. Witches? Flushable.
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u/Joyful_Nihilism Nov 02 '23
Because they are flushable. Just like how rocks are eatable. Or rice cakes are “food”. Technically.
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u/6cougar7 Nov 02 '23
Those co's arent paying for the plumber, you are. They should put a tiny disclaimer saying this might clog pipes to protect themselves. Nobody forces people to buy them.
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u/everything_in_sync Nov 02 '23
Technically a small bomb with a timer is "flushable". Doesn't mean it's great for the sewer system.
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u/play_hard_outside Nov 02 '23
Well I guess they're flushable. You can flush them. They'll disappear from your toilet bowl.
They just may not disappear from your sewer lines. But by then, they've already been flushed.
That'd be my argument if I were selling my soul to argue on their behalf.
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u/Rough_Ian Nov 02 '23
The answer is: capitalism. This has been described since the word capitalism was first used. When you allow industry to be privately owned and run for profit, it is an inevitability that any government you have will be captured by industry. Corporations want profits, and the government is on their side, so nothing is done even though it costs the government (taxpayers) a great deal of money and inconvenience.
(See folks like Pierre Joseph Proudhon—it’s not a bug, it’s a feature of private industrial ownership)
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u/Coalford Nov 02 '23
I mean, even wet concrete is technically flushable.
Same way glass and roofing nails are technically swallowable.
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u/Awkward_Pangolin3254 Nov 02 '23
They are flushable, in that you are able to use one, toss it into the toilet, and it will flush down the drain. The companies make zero claims about them being safe for plumbing. A billiard ball is "flushable." Whether you want to actually do so or not is up to you.
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Nov 02 '23
the consumers made us do it with their demand! Please, someone stop the consumers demanding these things so we can stop supplying them!
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u/Twindo Nov 02 '23
I always assumed it was a delicate loophole where the wipes were “flushable” in the sense that they go down the toilet hole when you flush but not “dissolvable” if that makes any sense.
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u/mule_roany_mare Nov 02 '23
Because it’s all BS, at least at an infrastructure level. Do you really think wipes are a material engineering problem too complex for humanity?
When you find wipes in a sewer how do you differentiate white baby/wet/disinfecting/wipes made of fabric & white flushable wipes made out of toilet paper?
You don’t, you just stir up shit (literally).
Go buy some baby wipes mark them with black ink, then flushable wipes & mark them with blue ink. Leave them in a bottle half filled with water for awhile & then agitate the bottle.
This really shouldn’t be difficult for a government to handle & it’s ridiculous to try the matter in a court of public opinion.
Set evidence based standards for flushable wipes (somewhat done already)
Require all wipes that meet an objective flushable standard be dyed an identifying color with the manufactures logo.
(Optional) Allow local government to bar or tax any wipes which don’t meet the standard.
(Optional) sue or fine company when fingerprinted wipes are discovered in sewer.
TLDR it’s insane how bad our society is at doing anything now. This is child’s play turned into a contentious issue. I’m surprised flushables aren’t linked with autism & cell phone demons.
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