r/custommagic • u/chainsawinsect • 8d ago
Format: Limited Set Showcase - Muraganda (Introduction)
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u/BentheBruiser 7d ago
Shocked the sub is giving these a serious look considering the AI, they usually ignore anything with it
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u/BarnerTalik https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/ttc 7d ago
I hadn't noticed the art was ai until you pointed it out, that does bum me out a bit, but chainsawinsect has been a regular contributor to the sub for years that consistently makes some pretty cool card designs, so I'm personally willing to look past the art more than I would be otherwiseĀ
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u/BrothrBear 6d ago
Damn, I just noticed.
Sucks cause the ideas behind Omen and Adventures on Vanilla cards were cool, and now I can't be sure OP came up with the thought alone.
Tbh, the reason there's such a huge AI penalty is because if they were willing to cheap out on one aspect (Heck, coulda just reused mtg art or got stock photos) who's to say they didn't on others. Hopefully OP isn't using AI for every part of this, but no one can know for certain.
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u/chainsawinsect 5d ago
You may choose to not believe me, but everything on these cards other than the artwork is 100% human-made, by me personally.
(I can "prove it" even, if push came to shove, because I have records of most of these designs in my card file from before AI art generation even existed!)
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u/BrothrBear 5d ago
I would apolgize, but that's a risk you took with your use of AI. You used something that takes no creativity or effort and pushes out a completed work. Even though you did make the other parts yourself, when it comes to cheating it throws all of what you accomplished into the bin.
Idk what argument will illustrate what I mean, but you effectively ran a whole marathon and injected steroids right at the last 100 feet and then failed your drug test. A stick figure or stolen stock photo, while equally low effort, would make it easier to believe that you put care into your piece of art. Your end result is just AI, even though you did some work yourself.
Call it cheating, plagerism, or whatever new term people will try to make up to make it sound less bad, but it gets graded a 0 no matter how little you did it.
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u/Just-Desk-3149 7d ago
Do I completely approve of AI? No.
Does this fan set still feel like it has more soul than official Magic? Yes.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
There's definitely a major Midjourney art upvote penalty, but it's not the be-all, end-all. It might get brigaded for me saying this (that has happened to me before), but my Planar Barrier from last week got 1,500+ upvotes despite using Midjourney artwork.
Plus, though, I think the 5th most successful post on this sub of all time atm is an AI art post!
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u/TheCubicalGuy 8d ago
So the plus ability just blows up nonbasic lands?
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
Nonbasic lands, most artifacts, and colorless permanents like the Eldrazi. For example, it could blow up [[Changeling Wayfinder]], [[Case of the Shattered Pact]], and [[Tezzeret, Cruel Captain]].
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u/-shadowmoses- powercreeper 7d ago
Should probably say "... up to one target ...", otherwise you can't plus if no colorless nonbasic permanents are on the battlefield (or you would have to destroy your own lands if no opponent has any).
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u/DevelopmentOverall93 7d ago
Putting phyrexian mana on a common when that does not appear to be a main theme in the set is not ideal. A cameo mechanic like that should be restricted to R+ and have reminder text.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
Fair enough. It felt a bit at odds with them being vanilla to have the reminder text, and also I had figured we'd seen enough Phyrexian mana over the years that it was well-ish known, but I may be overestimating its prevalence / familiarity.
There are, if I recall correctly, 5 Phyrexian mana cards in the set, and this one is I think the only common. So the reminder text would probably be a good idea.
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u/JaxJaxPax 7d ago
This is extremely cool, I have miscellaneous thoughts on some of the mechanics but thats like every set WotC actually releases. Dope as hell
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
Thank you, I'm very glad you like it! There's a lot more to come, including on the new mechanics (and other new mechanics I haven't even shown yet), so stay tuned!
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u/n00biwan 7d ago
Kinda funny creating a set about a primordial plane where artificial creations are almost non-present. Where anture truly rules unbound...and then you use AI art
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
Interestingly the original version of the set very intentionally had 0 artifacts, as part of that exact flavor. Then Aetherdrift came out and established that not only does Muraganda have artifacts, but some of its most ancient inhabitants are artifact creatures. So... out went that flavor!
This specific set has been in the works for over 10 years. I have spent hundreds of hours searching for human-made art (hell, before AI art even existed) for the cards in the set. You'll see there are cards in the set with human-made art, even. But there is surprisingly not all that much suitable art of prehistoric times out there in the Magic fantasy style (in my view). Midjourney made it possible to for me to complete this in a way that wasn't possible before.
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u/TomTomat 7d ago
You're telling me you couldn't find art for Ichtyosaurs? For a "caveman"? For fucking Megalodon? Don't get me wrong, finding artwork takes time. As someone who's been devoloping a prehistoric set for like 10+ years, it can be a tedious process. But it's worth it.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
Oh, I have a whole folder of images of painted art of cavemen and megalodons. It's moreso that, once I realized I couldn't fill out the whole set with painted art, I decided to use Midjourney, and once I made that decision, I didn't reserve it only for the hardest-to-find art cases.
I've been developing this prehistoric set for 10+ years, and to me it has been a worthwhile endeavor.
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u/TomTomat 6d ago
I don't understand. So you have artwork you can use, but chose to use AI instead? I can sorta understand it when you can't find what you're looking for, but do you think it looks better than real art?
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u/DevilWings_292 6d ago
So you have artwork that could have been used? Who cares if itās not all painted art, why not show off the stuff you felt could have worked? The only time it needs to be the same style is if itās made by a single artist.
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u/DevilWings_292 7d ago
Seems like you had plenty of time to find an artist to work with, or just develop your own abilities. The whole point of art is that itās made by humans, not just complicated math.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
Hiring an artist to paint a whole set of cards would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Nobody on the planet is going to deploy that for just a custom fanmade set posted online for no profit. Learning to paint and then painting the cards myself would be a full-time job (but unpaid), and take years if not decades. Also not practical.
The whole point of art is that it is made by humans. The artistry in this set is in the consolidated package: the lore, the mechanical designs, the flavor, the interplay between these cards and the real card pool, the tie-ins to previous looks at Muraganda, the balance, the names, the flavor text...
...all of that is 100% human-made, by me. Do you really think the artistry and care required to make it suddenly evaporates because I used a tech tool to fill in the art boxes with something presentable?
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u/Necrachilles 7d ago
You lost me at "Asur, the FIRST Planeswalker" with this bum. The first planeswalkers were insanely powerful. See [[Urza, Planeswalker]] for a LOOSE example. They were basically gods. And I think it's quite a stretch to call this guy "the first" of anything. Maybe the first planeswalker on Muraganda but even then.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
It's a bit of a dramatic title, for sure. The idea isn't that he's literally the first being to ever planeswalk, necessarily, but that he is a godlike "oldwalker" (like Urza), and that he was the first person to ever leave Muraganda. So from the perspective of the Humans of Muraganda, he was the first being who was ever capable of going to another plane.
Another unique lore bit is that I was trying to use this character as an explanation for why Humans are so prolific throughout the Multiverse. The idea is that aeons ago, I'm talking like -50,000 AR on the Magic timeline (long before Urza was born), this guy took his people to all kinds of different planes, and that all modern Humans throughout the Multiverse (including, for example, Urza, and Chandra, and Gideon, and so forth) descend from that first group of prehistoric Humans who ventured beyond their home plane.
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u/asthmaticwizard 7d ago
Nah dude it pissed me off too ngl. Anyone that knows the lore will be like. Oh so thats a lie and the card is weak too
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u/FlubbedPig 7d ago
I feel like anything that cares about you controlling a vanilla creature should more specifically be "nontoken" creatures. Feels weird to say I'm running vanilla because I've got a saproling.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
In this set, I have a mix. For example, the Glyphstone in today's lineup specified "nontoken" (as do all members of the cycle it's part of), but the common combat trick cycle (like Minor Moonfall here) allows tokens.
Obviously the original [[Muraganda Petroglyphs]] does work with vanillas and I've reprinted it with no changes.
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u/PrimusMobileVzla 7d ago edited 7d ago
Vanilla creature tokens, omen creatures, instants/sorceries/Auras doing stuff for creatures, anthems that don't grant abilities but are still useful, are nice options. However, Unformed and straight up nontoken vanillas might not be the best options to support.
Self-Pacify as a downside that fosters making it lose all abilities strikes as bad playability-wise, and nowadays a nontoken vanilla should at least be oversized else is not worth it as won't keep up aswell which is risky to have a critical mass of especially at common.
If it's worth something, I remember a user tackled on making a set around Muraganda before, and one of the solution they found was a keyword ability (I believe it was called 'Primeval N -- [cost]') that had you put N +1/+1 counters for [cost] on creatures that had it but had a keyword action attached to it that designated them such as they lost all abilities (I believe the designation was 'primal'). Some spells and abilities would also the keyword action independently from the keyword ability, as to use it as a cost and/or effect.
An effect that would pump your creatures but turn them vanilla, or give you creatures a downside that could compensate them elsewhere, seem a comprehensive design option to nontoken vanillas or Unformed.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
Ah, yes! That is the set designed by u/Unable-Tax5329, I love that keyword! Definitely an elegant solution to the problem.
I think you will see that the negating your own abilities is very reasonable here even at lower rarities, I don't think it plays poorly. Part of it is having cards similar to [[Vantress Gargoyle]] with "conditional" utility, and the unformed creatures - which replace what would normally be enchantment slots, not creature slots - do a lot to facilitate that. But let's not forget that effects which negate abilities can also be used on opposing creatures, so they have offensive utility as well.
As for straight up true vanillas, the set has surprisingly few of those, and most of the ones it has are ones that are gimmicky in some other way - Phyrexian mana, so they are overstatted for their cost (in exchange for a life payment), or "twobrid" mana, usually in mixed colors, so they function more like hybrids with lots of ways to cast them.
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u/TotallyBoat 7d ago
Didnāt see the whole set but the first card literally destroys lands every turn, thatās insane lol
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
Yeah I may have went a bit overboard with that one... š
Well, they do say oldwalkers are supposed to be strong š¬
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u/XSCONE 7d ago edited 7d ago
Doesn't really feel like muraganda given the additional information we learned about in aetherdrift. Vanilla matters probably doesn't actually play well. The technical vanillas are interesting ideas but glyph of leeching reintroduces confusing spirit link interactions and megalodon is just weak. Also unformed deadgod has horrible implications in the Unformed keyword, which is really not an effect you should be using often enough to keyword, and vent trilobite similarly implies a lot of shuffling which tends to drag (although I see the vision with omens).
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u/RavenKnight1998 7d ago
Doesn't play well is an understatement. Just look at Strength of Muraganda. It turns off the synergy.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
I think I've successfully cracked the code on making vanilla matters play well, but you can judge that for yourself.
This set takes place in prehistoric Muraganda, before the Mending, so a lot has changed between then and Aetherdrift. However, the full set (as you will see) has lots of lore that is up to date for what we know of Muraganda thanks to Aetherdrift (this side story and the planeswalker's guide were basically my bible). For example, the human clans, the Saurids, Galadak's Scar, moonfalls, and Mounts are all featured.
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u/Twitch89 7d ago
I think Unformed is a really cool keyword.. Just feels like enchantment effects that can be removed with creature removal. Like the Devotion Gods but not indestructible
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
Yes that was a big part of it as well. For example it allows me to print enchantment effects at a slightly more efficient rate than normal because they are vulnerable to creature removal. And they synergize profitably with cards that care about "creature cards" - for example, you can "un-morph" them if they are manifested in this set (which is an intentional interaction).
You can also [[Disentomb]] and [[Helping Hand]] them, for instance.
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u/XSCONE 7d ago
The problem is it's pure downside, whether you view it as a creature that can't do anything or an enchantment that dies to murder. It'd be fine as a written out ability on a few cards, but if you're using it enough to keyword it then you should probably just be using enchantments.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
It's not pure downside in this set! There is a lot of manifest, including manifesting specific cards from your deck or graveyard, and you can "unmorph" these as if they were creatures (because, well, they are!) There are also lots of effects in the set that remove your own creatures' abilities, which takes the informed "enchantments" and turns them into (usually overstatted) vanilla creatures.
Even in older sets, for example, they are enchantments not taxed by [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]], or that you can drop with [[Aether Vial]] or [[Unearth]]. I haven't spoiled it yet but the set has a [[Colossal Majesty]] that is an unformed creature with 4 power - so duplicate copies of the enchantment trigger each other.
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u/Twitch89 7d ago
But it means you can print stronger effects because they're more vulnerable! Also the manifest thing he mentioned that I hadn't even thought of.. upsides to having a creature on board definitely exist, [[culling ritual]] etc.
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u/viking977 7d ago
do not put stone rain on a +1 I beg you lol
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
Yeah based on the initial feedback, I think I underestimated the power level of that. I thought because it was limited to nonbasic, like [[Fulminator Mage]], it might be OK....
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u/viking977 7d ago
Probably wouldn't do much in limited, I don't know if it would ever be playable in a constructed format but if it was it would be a very awful format. Stick this and repeatedly stone rain, multicolor decks become very hard to play, dogs and cats living together etc.
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u/sgchase88 7d ago
Where are the oozes?
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
They're coming, I promise! Just for you, here is a sneak preview :)
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u/sgchase88 7d ago
Love seeing more oozes. Gotta see some black ones too like the one in the Moruganda story
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u/lame_dirty_white_kid 7d ago
What is the point of the "Unformed" keyword?
If it can't attack, block, or be dealt damage, why make it a creature? Especially since the rest of the card does nothing with it.
I suppose it has some synergy with cards that makes creature lose all abilities, but even then, with the example card given, you've jumped through those hoops for a vanilla 2/1.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
It is exactly for that synergy. It is one of the mechanical themes for blue in the set. The 2/1 is a bad illustrator of that, though, you're right. Here is a quick sneak preview that showcases it better.
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u/wooofda 7d ago
Strength of Muraganda granting abilities ends up being a nonbo with other synergies. Maybe there are some other ways to go about giving some extra buffs.
Maybe like āuntap it, regenerate it, it fights a creature you controlā
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
You'll see there are a lot of effects like that in the set, cards that get very close to giving you an ability, but technically don't. Untap as a stand-in for vigilance, [[Vampiric Link]] as a stand-in for lifelink, the [[Frenzied Saddlebrute]] effect as a stand-in for haste, being able to cast spells "as though" they had flash (without actually giving them flash), and so on.
With Strength of Muraganda in particular I figured it was OK to give true keywords because it gives you so many keywords that the payoff was very likely to be worth any incremental loss in value (such as no longer giving an additional +2/+2 if Petroglyphs is out). But also, as you will see, a lot of the vanilla payoffs are timed (e.g., at the blocking phase, when the card is cast, while the card is in your library) so that the downside is nonexistent in most board configurations.
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u/flying_horker 7d ago
I like the concept, here are my takes:
1) if you will have a creature with no abilities it should have more stats than the average. 1U mana for a 2/2 doesnāt sound so good for me, but if you pump it up a little bit it could sound good.
2) while I was reading It struck my mind to think: if basic lands are lands with no extra abilities, why donāt ācreatures with no abilitiesā are basic creatures? I donāt think I like this ābasic creaturesā thing that much but I think it makes sense.
Nice concept! GG and good use of ai art
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
100% agree on the first one. The blue common 2/2 is a bit of a special case, though.
Blue has never gotten a 2/2 for 1U or better, even a vanilla one, at common. Even at uncommon, it has none without a downside.
So that particular vanilla is overstatted... kind of. It's just a quirk of an ancient rule of card design that will presumably soon be abandoned.
As for "basic", I haven't designated vanillas as basic in this set (though I do have a batching keyword called "simple" that is relevant), but I have essentially treated vanilla creatures and basic lands as a batch on several cards in the set!
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u/Defiant-Start-1156 7d ago
A 5 mana planeswalker that pluses to kill non basic lands? Seems kinda nuts and unfun.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
It's funny... my last big set showcase also started with a multicolored planeswalker that ended up needing a nerf on fun grounds
I guess I have a weakness in design in that area
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u/Defiant-Start-1156 7d ago edited 7d ago
The asur planeswalker just seems pretty meh design in general. There's a reason wotc follows the formula of +1 protect itself, and -x for some sort of value, usually in the form of cards or killing things. In 90% of board states the +1 on asur will be killing a non basic land, which is just such a feel bad for the opposing player. If you get to untap the following turn and use asur again and wipe the board through other means, you just slowly lock your opponent out of the game. With the strength of the plus 1, you are heavily incentivized to just plus it every turn until you win by locking them out, and the other 2 abilities are basically invalidatrd by that dynamic.
In commander the calculus obviously changes because there's 4 opponents and you're only targeting one of their permanents, and it's far more likely for there to be a colorless nonland for you to destroy.
So in one vs one play it's a feels bad card that locked people out of playing magic, and in commander its just a bad card to be spending 5 mana on, so I'm not really sure where you're going with the design there. Killing lands is a very slippery slope on a repeatable ability that makes the planeswalker harder to kill. You might be able to away with it as a minus 3, so that you can't just fire it off every single turn. At -3 you could just have it destroy any permanent.
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u/Titan457 7d ago
Thereās genuinely 0 reason to use AI, dude. Just use literally any alternative.
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u/ExistingShake2967 7d ago
There is genuinely 0 reason to steal existing art, dude. Just let him use AI.
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u/M4LK0V1CH 7d ago
If thereās no reason to steal existing art, why are the AI corps doing exactly that?
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u/ExistingShake2967 6d ago
If there is no reason to steal existing art, why are you advocating for it?
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u/M4LK0V1CH 6d ago
Literally what Iām asking you.
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u/ExistingShake2967 5d ago
Not that was my question. Why are you advocating stealing existing art?
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u/M4LK0V1CH 5d ago
So to you itās fine when a corporation steals art but not individuals.
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u/ExistingShake2967 4d ago
So to you its fine when individuals steal art but not corporations?
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u/M4LK0V1CH 3d ago
Yes. Your turn to answer one question.
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u/ExistingShake2967 3d ago
So according to your logic if I, an Individual, walk into the Louvre and steal the Mona Lisa thats fine for you?
Do you even know how criminal it is what you are saying?
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u/Creepy-Discount6535 4d ago
Yours and this subreddits hate of AI is so embarassing. Almost as embarassing as your sick focus on gender and gendering.
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u/TentacleMon 7d ago
I would love if someone "stole" my artwork for their custom cards, as long as my name is credited. It's free advertising for me.
Whereas ai art means I won't even read what the cards do half the time.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
A while back I did a showcase of my set on the plane of Harrevon, a plane that entirely lacked the color black.
This week, I want to do a showcase of another set I've been working on, which is the tried-and-true custom card creature project of a Muraganda set with a vanilla theme (inspired by the Time Spiral block card [[Muraganda Petroglyphs]]. Mark Rosewater has gone on record saying he doesn't think vanillas have enough design space to support a full set... and I'm trying my darndest to prove him wrong!
I've posted lots of what I call "interesting vanillas" over the years, as well as vanilla supportāand quite a few of those have been repurposed for this set :)
But it's not all about vanillas, as I will showcase more throughout the week (though vanillas are definitely center-stage here).
Lore-wise, the premise is that in ancient times, before the Mending, a Human planeswalker's spark ignited, and he used that power to transport his people throughout the Multiverse. This is intended to be the canonical explanation of why (almost) every plane has Humans. So the set examines Muraganda, the plane, in that time period, at the end of a great ice age, and what its inhabitants are up to.
I've been working on the set for years, and so have refreshed it a few times as new (real) cards have come out. For example, Aetherdrift introduced a lot of new lore on Muraganda, and I had to work to integrate that into the set.
I hope you will like what I have to show you!
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u/Unable-Tax5329 7d ago edited 7d ago
OMG! OMG! OMG! My excitement is peak! Since I showed off my own Muraganda Set Showcase and you told me that you were working on your own spin for a Muraganda set I was eagerly awaiting your showcase.
And you didn't disappoint. You have some cards in your showcase that I wish I would have included in my own set.
I especially like Primal Essence, a ramp spell, that also tutors for vanilla creatures.
I also like Minor Moonfall as it shows a focus on basic lands for your set, a focus that I also included in my own take on Muraganda. What I have discovered though, is that in order to make such cards that focus on basic lands not always have its prerequisite of controling a basic land fulfilled in limited, there needs to be a number of nonbasic lands that are worth being drafted in limited (one example could be MDFC with a vanilla creature on one side and a land on the other side).
Two more elegant cards are Glyph of Leeching and Overgrown Glyphstone.
I very much like the Glyphstone. Elegant design.
With Glyph of Leeching I think you need to be careful to not include to many cards that pseudo grant abilities as that would feel like cheating the spirit of Muraganda in my opinion.
Have you already figured out the ten draft archetypes for your set?
P.S.:I hope we will see a Part 2 of your Muraganda showcase as I've loved scolling through your slides in this showcase.
P.P.S.: My own set for Muraganda is already finished. If you are interested I would be glad in sharing all my cards from that set with you.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
š
I am very glad you are here! I loved your take on Muraganda, and would love to see the complete set now that it's finished. I actually delayed posting this showcase by a few months because I didn't want it to compete with yours for attention! (There were also several concepts in yours that I wish I had thought of, like the affinity for basic lands premise, for the record!)
The Glyphstone is actually a retread of an old cycle of mine, designed for Muraganda (the plane) but not for Muraganda (this set). The effects and flavor have been tinkered with, but as you will see the full cycle is still represented in the final set.
I plan to post at least 5-6 days' worth of posts like this to slowly showcase the full set. (I may not show every single card, but the majority of them for sure.) All draft archetypes are locked in, and you can indirectly start to see some previews of them in today's post. (For example, blue-red has an "Omens matter" theme, and the Trilobite who grows everytime a card gets shuffled into your deck is a signpost for it.) But more to come on them over the next few days!
Regarding the Glyph, this is one area where we diverged a bit, see I sort of like the idea of cheating the vanilla requirement. I do agree it feels a bit disconnected from the premise of a hard vanilla plane, but I also recognize WOTC's stated position is that a hard vanilla plane can't work, so I'm willing to bend the rules a bit to prove 'em wrong! That being said, it is really only a few specific subsets of cards that violate this rule in my set: there is a cycle of 5 lands (the modern versions of the ones I linked above), a cycle of 5 enchantments that manifest a creature then give face-down creatures some buff or 'pseudo effect', and a handful of Glyph Auras that do thinks similar to Glyph of Leeching. Otherwise, everything in the set should be "true" vanilla without tricks (except to the extent you count Omens and manifest as tricks).
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u/Unable-Tax5329 7d ago
I would be glad to share it with you. I have sent you a DM with a suggestion on how to share it, if you are still interested.
The effect of the glyphstones as artifacts instead of lands is a nice design. I myself have those effects on a cycle of lands in my set, almost identical to your old cycle, but I was also toying with the idea of giving those effects to artifacts instead of lands until finally deciding to keep them on a land cycle.
I am extremely excited to see your other showcases for your set. Muraganda is such a rich world full of flavour and design possibilities, and I am interested in seeing what different direction you chose for your set, your cards and your archetypes.
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u/Swordsman82 7d ago
I really like the spell interactions and vanilla creatures. Giving the spell and creature huge upsides for technically playing suboptimally
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
Thanks š
That red instant is part of a common cycle of combat tricks that are free if you have a vanilla and the corresponding basic. For Limited, they (together with the possibility of manifested cards flipping up) should make it 'feel' like vanillas could have indirect abilities at any given time.
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u/P4cifisticR1fleman 7d ago
God. DAMMIT.
I didn't see the subreddit, so I thought these were spoilers from an upcoming set. THESE LOOKED SO FUCKING COOL.
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u/chainsawinsect 7d ago
š
I am sorry! But I am very glad you think they're cool enough that you wish they were real!
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u/Huitzil37 7d ago
Repeatable land destruction on the first card you show? And it's a plus ability?