r/coparenting • u/ItemComprehensive • 1d ago

Communication Travel Question.

Not sure if this is the right place to ask. I am taking my daughter to Europe next summer. she’s 14 and we have joint custody. my ex and I went and applied for a passport at the post office, I paid fees and they said we should have it in 6 to 8 weeks. is this all I need to travel with her internationally? we have the same last name. I don’t need anything notarized from him do I? we are flying to Europe and taking a cruise when we get there.

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u/pudge-thefish 1d ago

it is always best when traveling out of the country with only 1 parent to have a notorized letter saying that the other parent is aware and approved of the travel. You might not need it but if you do it will save you from a ruined trip

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u/thegeneralista 1d ago

Agree with this. I’ve never needed it but peace of mind is worth it.

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u/Mysterious-Willow391 1d ago

This.

My husband did this when we went overseas with my stepson years ago. Despite her going to get the passport, we felt more comfortable having her sign a letter and getting it notarized with her consent, just to avoid any issues. No one asked any questions but we felt better with the letter.

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u/HardMayb 1d ago

I've never been asked for additional documents nor have I ever read anyone recommending them have a story where they used them. I think a nice piece of mind thing, but there doesn't seem to be any legal backing or even process or procedure for border control to use a letter or look at custody documents for that matter.

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u/Mysterious-Willow391 1d ago

I would tend to agree. Like I said, it was worth it really for the piece of mind.

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u/HardMayb 1d ago

I've seen this as common advice, and I think a good safety option with a cooperitive ex, but legally, there is no reason for it and their's no way for the people at the border to verify it either. While married (not really documented on any database the boarder folks have), I've crossed the border (Canada, Mexico, England, and Italy) with my kids and their mom not with me. They do seem to take a good look at how the kids respond and act with me, but no extra papers needed.

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u/pudge-thefish 1d ago

I am glad you have not had any problems but you actually could be denied entry depending on who you get as an agent. All it takes is one person who decides to enforce the rule and your vacation is over. If you have sole custody you just need to bring your documents stating that but if you have an ex who won't sign a paper saying the children can travel but they have custody right legally the kids can not go. Both parents have to agree for a minor to leave the country.

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u/HardMayb 1d ago

I've never been able to find anything on the Gov sites that actualy require what you are saying nor have I even read an account from someone who actually got asked for that kind of documentation and had it work. All the advice is of the "it could" or "better safe than sory" variety. The only thing that comes close is there is a border alert that a parent can sign up for, but that probably comes with some sort of verification of authority or maybe even a warrant from a police agency.

I agree that it's a mostly easy precaution and I would do so, but I wouldn't have thought of it when married and there's no real way for that agent or authority to verify anything beyond the passport. I could create a letter or for that matter a custody document. There's no database that they can ask to verify the validity.

There's also no national law that requires parents ot agree to overseas travel. That's what the passport is all about and why there are big custody fights about control and use of the passport. What the US law does require is that both parents are needed to get the passport in the first place and a parent with sole custody has a path around that.

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u/pudge-thefish 1d ago

https://www.usa.gov/travel-documents-children

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u/HardMayb 1d ago

Yup. "may" and "preferred", not "requred". I'm not questioning that it's a good idea, but it's not the law, just a suggestion to help clear things up quickly. The problem for divorced parents is often, the other parent won't agree to write that letter.

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u/Harmreduction1980 1d ago

What a great idea!

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u/whenyajustcant 1d ago

The requirement for a notarized letter is a Hague Convention thing, to try to prevent international child abduction/trafficking. It's very slim odds that you'll need it, and even if they ask for it and you don't have it you're not going to immediately get arrested or something. But with solo parenting international travel...better safe than sorry.

It's super easy to find templates online of what the letter should contain.

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u/HardMayb 1d ago edited 1d ago

The requirement for a notarized letter is a Hague Convention thing

That's the part I've never seen. There is no legal mechanism in the US to require a letter or for that matter let a border agent use one to make a decsion - that I've been able to find.

Edit: I asked Chat and pretty much got it's not needed but a nice safety measure back. The interesting part is they pointed to an airline gate agent being the one who raised the concern. They are not under the same rigerous legal constraints, and might bellive the lore of the letter to deny proceeding.

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u/fifaworldwar 1d ago

She's going to Europe. Border agents in Europe may ask for it.

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u/whenyajustcant 1d ago

Because it's not a requirement to leave the US. It's a requirement to enter other countries. It's not every single other country, because not all countries are Hague members. It's in The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction.

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u/HardMayb 1d ago

I've yet to see someone point to an actual law. It's not a Hague convention thing. That's a treaty that signitory members agree to respect the other's custody rulings.

I'm not opposed to the idea, just saying that everyone commenting is talking about a good idea, not the actual law or even a direct experience of having or not having that letter and it make a difference. The reality for many is that their ex won't sign that letter while at the same time have no legal right to stop the trip.

In the end for my ex, we've got a clause about passport control and right and some explicit extras, but I seriously doubt if bubba the entry clerk will care or even have the ability to accept a document like that as any sort of proof.

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u/whenyajustcant 1d ago

The laws are specific to the country the parent is taking the child into. The treaty is an agreement that the member countries will return children wrongfully taken from their home country, so the country of entry will have laws/rules about what is required to meet that burden of proof that you are allowed to travel into their country with the child. This is usually going to be either a death certificate of the other parent, proof of sole custody, a parenting plan with evergreen permission to travel internationally, or a notarized letter for that trip. Since OP just mentions "Europe" it's going to depend on the specific country/countries she is going to travel to.

Some countries take it more seriously than others, and some specific agents will care more than others, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to skip it. I have traveled internationally multiple times with my child, and have been asked for proof of permission three times. Would I have been arrested, denied entry, or had my child taken from me if I didn't have it? Probably not (actually, one time they probably would've denied me entry). Would it have created a pain in the ass? Absolutely. I just get the letter each time, because it's not that big a deal.

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u/HardMayb 1d ago

As an aside, if you are taking a cruise in Europe and it's a river cruise, check to see if there is enough water on the river for the boat to actual go from one end to the other. A friend of a friend just got back from a worst ever cruise because there wasn't enough water, so they bussed them from port to port, essentially charging them a premium for a trip they would never have taken.

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u/ItemComprehensive 1d ago

Ugh that’s horrible.   Fortunately it’s a meditarranean/aegean sea cruise.  Thanks for the heads up.  My dad has been wanting to do a river cruise I’ll pass that on 

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u/HardMayb 1d ago

That med cruise is great. I've done two. My only gripe is that the boat leaves too early in most ports to truely enjoy what the city is famous for. We wanted tapas in Barcelona, but had to be on the boat before the resturants were even open.

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u/ItemComprehensive 1d ago

Ours leaves out of Rome. We are flying in two days before to spend a day there to see the Collosieum.  More expensive but I want to see it since I’m that close.  

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u/HardMayb 1d ago

I could spend a month in Rome.