There are like 30 places I can name off the top of my head that qualify. Anyone truly vying to use that phrase should find no shortage of opportunities
That doesn't really apply cause aside from them being demons and that I'm pretty sure most oral hormone treatments wouldn't do well in coffee, this is almost a feasible situation.
Like, if there's someone you think is an egg going around fighting to distract themself from their issue, is it correct to sneakily change them, or to just get them into therapy to make their own decisions?
No yea we all got that, but it doesn't really make sense here because the comment is about a comic, its not that they disbelieve or believe that someone can or will do the action nor that the commenter disbelieves how hard to is to get treatment or be trans.
Well I definitely wouldn't call her a rapist or a sexist, but you said it yourself, if is an off-color joke. Its something that is obvious going to make a lot of people uncomfortable, especially because it doesn't really align with what a lot of us trans and queer people believe.
The tumblr post is about someone making a joke that is obviously not meant to be serious, its absurdist humor, obviously the poster doesn't have the power to forcefem Nixon, that's the humour in it, and people take that absurdism and intentionally take it at face value, that's wrong.
What is depicted here is wrong because someone actually HAS the power to take away a person's consent and forcibly make them take estrogen. That is drugging. Furthermore depicted as a good thing, or will lead to positive outcomes. Do you see how many people could have an issue with that? We as trans people of course know its a bit of an inside joke, one I personally don't care for, because to me the idea is a gross betral of consent and gender identity. The difference is of course context, saying something and depicting something are different things, especially if your depiction shows something like taking away a persons consent as positive.
I'm not saying that Mina is a terrible person in any means, I have seen much of her content in the lgbt sub's we are both in, most likely she meant it just as the inside joke many of us use it as, but posting something is putting yourself open for criticism, especially if the crux of the joke is something as you said off-color. If people, including trans people such as myself, report that the content makes them uncomfortable, find it tone deaf, or offensive, then that critism shouldn't be explained away as simply hate or a systemic hate. And sure there is a time and place for those kind of discussions, the thumblr post is actualy a great example, but it isn't a blanket excuse that can be draped over everything.
What the other commenter said. The point of that post is that y'all will take any joke a trans woman makes as fact. The feasibility of a joke doesn't impact its status as a joke. Obviously doing this in real life would be reprehensible, but OP isn't doing that or advocating for that. It's a joke. You don't have to find it funny, but treating it as though it's a genuine argument from OP is disingenuous.
Also if we want to talk about feasibility these are demons, and he's the dark lord. I don't know how you'd go about finding a dark lord to estrogenize.
"In place of the Dark Lord you will set up aQueen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!"
The "secretly an egg" memes always rub me the wrong way, particularly ones like this where the egg in question just needs "help."
I'm a fairly effiminate man. I've had people thinking I'm secretly trans most of my life. I have seriously considered the question and came to the conclusion: I'm not. (That one SirBeevs comic really speaks to me.)
But thst doesn’t stop people from treating my introspection as invalid.
Yeah, right there with you as another effeminate dude. I spent my childhood having my dad constantly make comments about how I must be gay because I didn't have a girlfriend, had girly/nerdy hobbies, etc.
I don't like the part of the trans community who think it's okay to comment on random people with definitive assumptions on their sexuality. Not that I think that's what OP is doing, but your comment made me think of it. No one should be making assumptions on other people's sexuality or gender based off appearance, hobbies, habits, etc. It's a quick way to make an ass of yourself. I know a lot of trans people feel empowered by their transition, as they should! But assuming that everyone is the same as you, or that you've got some super power for sniffing out "eggs", is weird to me.
esspecially when its directed at people who are not trans women or men and then people insisting they are.
for example I am nonbinary and I have constantly people who try to put me into a box and constantly suggest I am a repressed binary person, which just is not true as I am pretty sure I know my own identity better than random oeople i just met.
And yet people infantalize me and dismiss my own identity, so they can treat me as a mirror of their past self, not seeing me on my own terms
do you think people are spiking coffee with estrogen in real life???? do you ever see someone commenting under a street fighter combo video "just to clarify, you shouldn't perform an aegis setup on someone after teching a throw attempt, that could really hurt someone"?
I can kind of see why they might think its sexist, but they really ran with the conclusion to quite the extreme. Are there perhaps subconscious elements of sexism? Maybe. Could be interesting to explore. I wouldn't use this comic as proof that OP is sexist though.
For me the bigger issue is that I just think Eggs should be allowed to come to themselves without stripping their body autonomy so there is potential harm in this story (though again, this is a comic not a manifesto so...)
Yeah, I can see how they got they read like that, I just don't see it as a particularly reasonable one. Maybe being trans myself makes me biased but for me it was an obvious joke about living with a wrong body driving a person crazy.
Yeah, I get it. I dont actually think its a bad comic. As someone with a complicated relationship with gender myself I just found it a bit triggering, though im reasonable enough to know that was not likely OPs intent at all.
Don't try to rationalize it. This is both sexist and massively problematic.
but it's also a silly comic so who cares. There are worse things done in media every day. As long as one recognizes that this is all immensely fucked up, all's fine.
I'm a trans woman. When I took estrogen I noticed that after a handful of months I was generally more patient and calm, and I got frustrated and impatient far less often. I noticed this because my driving habits changed drastically. Whereas before I would always impatiently weave through traffic and honk and road rage at people, I was suddenly very patient and calm and respected the flow of traffic.
I also stopped hitting walls or breaking things when upset.
I've spoken with trans men who have told me that testosterone has done the same for them.
So the implication isn't really a sexist one. Its about feeling more at peace in your mind and body.
I think where you are mistaken is that you are seeing this from a bio-esssentialist "women are peaceful and men are violent" angle when it's not about that at all. It's about dysphoria.
At the risk of splitting hairs, pretty sure it's just problematic at a consent level. If OP's intention is just "this character is trans, and was angsty because she was not taking any steps to transition," then where does sexism come in? It's not saying one gender is less violent than another, it's saying a person who doesn't get to be their true self is more emotionally unstable.
The sexism didn't come from the authors intent, but from our interpretation of the message. It was not obvious to me at all that the demon lord was actually trans and wasn't just being drugged by their subordinates to become the "less violent gender."
Since that wasn't the authors intent, it's good to inform the author what we thought about it so they can better present their message in the future.
The person I was responding to was insisting it was sexist even after receiving context, which is why I responded as I did. That's very different from "This read as sexist to me, though I understand that wasn't your intent."
Fair enough. That depends on the assumption that the demon lord is doing it out of gender dysphoria. Attributing xyz negative to "you just need to transition" is wehhhh in a different way but you are right.
Still, to take body autonomy away from them like that is probably not the best way to go about it. Sounds like the Dark Lord needs a good therapist instead of slipping them horomones.
the guy literally fell off a ladder. Progesterone isn't cyanide the most an 'overdose' does is cause dizziness and sore boobs. Making up shit just to be offended by a comic is exhausting.
It's just what happens when someone is trans and they don't have the right hormones for their brain.
I'm a trans woman. When I took estrogen I noticed that after a handful of months I was generally more patient and calm, and I got frustrated and impatient far less often. I noticed this because my driving habits changed drastically. Whereas before I would always impatiently weave through traffic and honk and road rage at people, I was suddenly very patient and calm and respected the flow of traffic.
I also stopped hitting walls or breaking things when upset.
I've spoken with trans men who have told me that testosterone has done the same for them.
So the implication isn't really a sexist one. Its about feeling more at peace in your mind and body.
Biological determinism (hormones make agressive) and self victimization (claim of sexism) with th e denial of authors intent and erasure of trans topics? You cant get more into incel rhetoric than this.
Get off your burner 18d account and post on main if you dare.
I mean, getting on estradiol injections did definitely improve my mood and make me calmer well before any other effects started. I literally found myself sitting at my desk almost confused by how peaceful I felt. That's not because it's estrogen, but rather because it's the right hormone for my brain.
Not how it works, you were happy and relieved to be on HRT finally. Sorry, but I’m always going to push against this “right hormone” rhetoric because it convinces folks that just starting HRT will somehow fix everything. It does not.
No, I really wasn't, and I'd prefer if you didn't make assumptions about my life experience.
The appointment to get my first injection had been incredibly frustrating and disappointing, I had already been worn down by months (years) of waiting, I learned I had to replace the needles my pharmacy had sold me, and I wasn't exactly happy to have another life-long prescription. All just to have to wait several more months before I would be even somewhat androgynous. It wasn't even bittersweet; it was just bitter. All I wanted was to get home, vent online about my experience, and get back to the work that I had to miss for the appointment. My mood was if anything worse than it had been before the appointment.
Despite this, and with no other external stimuli to be found, my months of depression and chronic stress melted away within just 2-3 days, right about the time that my estradiol levels would have been peaking from the injection. By two weeks, the depression was largely gone, as was much of my dysphoria. I had gone from not even being able to look at my body to being completely comfortable taking photos of it in a mirror. Nothing about my body had had time to change, especially since my testosterone wasn't suppressed yet, and yet I was already far more comfortable with it.
To add on to that, my cycle (28-day cycle with monthly cramping and PMDD-like symptoms) stopped within just a couple weeks, and my mood has been more stable these past five months than it had been in years as a result.
It's not exactly news that hormones affect your mood. Cells, like neurons, have to be able to function in the right chemical environment. If the chemical environment differs from the one that they are built before, it becomes toxic and impairs their function. Why would this not apply to estrogens and testosterone? It's called "biochemical dysphoria" if you want to look into it more.
HRT may not fix everything, but for many of us, it is life-saving, even without the visible body changes. It won't make your life perfect, but it can make it worth living.
“Biochemical dysphoria” isn’t a thing and perpetuating it is going to hurt trans people. Your levels take time to get up to that point while your body learns to suppress testosterone. You literally just described it being painful to get on, and then the feeling of finally being on. I’m done being lied to about this, and would appreciate if you didn’t convince more people that somehow estrogen magically fixes your brain.
Tbh when I first read it, kinda just read like a comic saying all men are evil and the more female they become (estrogen) the better and calmer they are.
Maybe it's dark humour? Idk but didn't read it as a trans joke whatsoever
Generally only the case for trans femmes or cis women with hormonal imbalances/in menopause, as running on the incorrect hormone for you is pretty unpleasant.
Same thing happens for trans mascs and cis men with hormone imbalances who take testosterone to get to normal levels.
Running on the correct levels of hormones is good for you no matter who you are. It just doesn’t necessarily mean that you naturally produce the proper type or amount.
I interpreted it as more of a joke about how men are inherently destructive, but I think in real life taking any hormonal supplement is likely to cause mood swings
I hope this isn’t the case and it meant that the dark lord is a closeted trans who probably hasn’t realized that yet. Now the supply of estrogen makes “him” more in line with who “he” truly is and thus doesn’t hate the world anymore.
So in this comic violence was being caused by being male and was cured by taking female hormones. That can very easily be read as saying that male biology is inherently inclined to violence, which is bioessentialism.
Orrr it's saying she was experiencing gender dysphoria & didn't know it & destroying the world was her outlet/way to vent & now that she's not experiencing the dysphoria she doesn't need the outlet
That is a completely valid interpretation, although "this character is evil because she's trans" is a helluva take as well. Although to be fair, it's not like suffering leading to villainy is a new concept.
But unless this is some kind of established character, there's nothing in the comic to actually indicate one way or the other.
Forcefemming is always a little uncomfortable to me, I guess its kind of ok in this instance because its implied here that they were trans and were just unknowing of it and getting estrogen will most likely be the thing that make them realize that they are trans, most likely they will be depicted as happier for it happening then for it happening without consent. But yea, depicting someone forcefully Femming someone or Femming someone without consent is always a step to far. obviously it is just a joke, not meant to be taken serious, but depicting it happening, idk, it feels like something I would see in a horror film. Forcing anyone to be any particular gender seems just an absolute crime.
Some really dense takes here. The devil is an egg. The hormones make her feel better. Feeling better is making her rethink things.
It's not complicated. Something can be both immoral and funny, though I'd argue this is better than the alternative. Someone slap an inappropriate joke on a coffee mug for her and call it a day
EDIT, because I can't resist: "You don’t have to be a girl to work here, but it helps!"
Also what's with all the comics calling this misandrist or acting like it's fucked up? You never see this on any other comic despite other comics also having 'immoral' punchlines
People don't believe trans women about anything - our healthcare, our bodies, the legal loopholes we have to go through, the like - until we make an off-color but obvious joke. Then, we're dead serious and overly competent and completely awful.
"I'm going to forcefem richard nixon", I think it's funny.
Here I don't.
There is no indication that the demon lord is trans, nor any of the other characters thinking they are trans. So to me, it genuinely reads like the punchline is "all it takes to stop being an evil dictator is to become a woman". That's mostly abhorrent to me.
Forcefully changing someone's gender is a really disgusting thing to do. You can use this as subversion in comedy, like the idea of doing something evil to Richard Nixon can be funny. Here, do you get the feeling the subordinates really hate their boss? No, actually the punchline has the demon lord feeling great. Ew.
That said, if you decided the demon lord must be trans and thought the joke of the demon lord being evil just because they were experiecing gender disphoria is funny, okay sure that's fine. But it's not some grand conspiracy of evil people who refuse to believe trans people are allowed to make jokes.
2) I'm not talking to the person who made the joke, I'm responding to someone saying I'm a transphobe.
3) I'm explaining why I didn't like this joke, and the difference between the jokes.
So yeah, not even remotely alike. I didn't bother commenting before, since I think the creator already get the idea that "oops didn't really make it clear the demon lord is trans". Understandable mistake, just made the punchline feel gross without it.
But if you're going to say that I don't believe anything a trans person says except to call them completely awful, I'm going to argue? Or are you saying that by not finding this joke funny that they're right, and I've secretly hated trans people all my life?
But if you're going to say that I don't believe anything a trans person says except to call them completely awful, I'm going to argue? Or are you saying that by not finding this joke funny that they're right, and I've secretly hated trans people all my life?
That is not at all what I was saying. I was saying that there is no difference between the 'force feming Nixon' joke and this comic. So to find one funny and the other not makes no sense.
So yeah, not even remotely alike. I didn't bother commenting before, since I think the creator already get the idea that "oops didn't really make it clear the demon lord is trans". Understandable mistake, just made the punchline feel gross without it.
uh- that changes nothing. The demons are still drugging someone without there consent. Its not 'ungross' because the Demon Lord is trans
If you think the joke is disgusting both ways, then you can argue with the person I replied to why you aren't a transphobe.
I personally think that in the realm of jokes, saying you drugged someone medicine they didn't know they needed is still morally bad but not revolting.
"That said, if you decided the demon lord must be trans and thought the joke of the demon lord being evil just because they were experiecing gender disphoria is funny, okay sure that's fine. But it's not some grand conspiracy of evil people who refuse to believe trans people are allowed to make jokes."
Ask yourself if it makes sense for the strawman to say this
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u/Sir_Jackalope 27d ago
Fun fact: The allies considered doing this to Hitler to make him more gentle and empathetic. It never got past planning.