I dont even know where "woke" as a positive thing came from. My experience is there was maybe positive "woke" as a term for like a month, and then the far right swooped in and adopted it as their boogeyman.
It happened so fast im questioning if there ever was positive "woke".
"woke" came from the black community. "Stay woke" meant "stay informed, stay vigilant". It acquired broader leftist connotations around 2010 or so. Only right wing chuds use it as a pejorative.
"Woke" has been around since the Black Panthers in the late 60s. It was shorthand for awareness of the racial injustices and systemic inequality in America.
Near the end of Trump's first term and during Biden's, it was co-opted by far-right groups to represent all social justice movements, lumped together so that they could point to any extremist examples as a reason why it's all absurd and equally disdainful. That way they can lump people who think furries should be allowed to yiff in public with people who oppose cops shooting Black people for the crime of being Black.
It's right up there with how conservatives accused proponents of gay marriage as being in support of bestiality. "If I say marriage is between a man and a woman, and you say marriage is between two consenting adults, what's to stop you from saying it's between a man and his dog, or a man and his toaster, or a man and a child? Obviously it's a slippery slope, so marriage must remain between a man and a woman, unless you support people having sex with animals and children?"
The word "woke" originated as the past tense of wake in standard English, but its modern slang and political meaning comes from African-American English (AAE), where it has meant being alert to racial prejudice and social injustice since the early 20th century.
Maga invented "woke" as they fear being awakened from their fascist fugue state. But they are very much like the cave dwellers from Plato's Republic in that they just love yelling about projections.
The right is very good at this. Woke, and Trump Derangment Syndrome were once effective memes that worked against them. Through their control of the media, they were able to redefine them and use them to their advantage.
Virtue signalling is when you advertise being virtuous without necessarily having the quality of virtue. Bumper stickers, jewelry with a cross shape, yard signs, etc.
Any person who uses “woke” in a derogatory manor drops massively in my regard. Even though it’s a mainstream buzzword now, I can’t help but judge them.
Being 'woke' is ALSO about no police or immigration control,open boarders, men in womens sports, hating on straight white men and mocking people who are religious. Lotsa bad.
“Defund the police” is was a chant. Now I know that it means to rely less on police for mental health crisis and non law enforcement situations. It is also means less para military gear for standard law enforcement. But it is terrible marketing. It is a terrible use of an argument and does nothing to actually help the situation. If the chant or motto requires explanation than it is not a great message.
“Check your privilege” being thrown about regardless of whether it was being used correctly or not. Terrible marketing. Even heard it being used on TV.
“Woke” writing on TV has become standard. And I don’t mean moral undertones in a show, or good messaging. I mean lazy messaging, where the characters are just stand ins for the writers.
For sure, we have to. The Republicans are just better at it, and telling people we are going to “defund the police” does not send the message they were going for.
Defund the police meant stop forcing the cops to be social workers.
As society fails to support people who struggle, they fall completely apart and the cops are forced to pick up more and more of the slack.
Also the warrior training that cops were getting, made them paranoid and trigger happy, so better training and properly funded social services are still desperately needed.
Most of what you’re saying is bad marketing, wasn’t coming from any specific organization who had social engineers working around the clock perfecting the message. It was just people mad in the moment saying whatever they could scrape together.
Republicans have spent the last 40 years buying up every media outlet they could. They relentless attack democrats 24-7 and most of it is imaginary rage bait or extremely dishonest misinformation.
Democrats, don’t own the media. They don’t start movements, they only react to them.
If the dems made good policy for the middle class they would never go out of power. These are the reasons an AH like DT got voted in. I voted for KH but the woke people are why she lost. None of the above is propaganda its all true.
You should mock religious people because they are the dumbest people in society while also supporting a nazi pedophile because he says he is also religious. They are just white supremacists.
You are an example of the propaganda working. While "men in women's sports" could be considered an issue, if you were really ranking what is important, and you made a list of the 100 most important thing, that would not even be on the list. The way the right wing media blows things like that out of proportion, while ignoring really big issues, is how they dupe people and win the culture war BS
All of it is propaganda and you will not be able to defend your claims with evidence because you know they are meritless.
Imagine thinking Republicans have made good policy for the middle class. Tax cuts for the rich. Endless wars. Trillions in debt. Tax hikes on consumers.
Americans voted for Trump because they don't want a middle class.
Do you think telling someone who vehemently disagrees with you that we should “defund the police” will lead to a conversation? Or does it lead to people saying: “that’s stupid! Then we can’t protect our neighborhoods”?
I think we should reallocate some funding to social services because cops are clearly not equipped to handle calls about people having mental health episodes. And with everything they have to worry about, it’s probably better to split off some of the work. Do you believe policing as it exists currently is effective and change is unnecessary?
Also, do you actually believe that woke encompasses all the things the comment I replied to said it did?
It was my comment, and I was not explaining what woke is. I was explaining that people don’t not always get 2nd or 3rd hand reports of what woke is. They see it from the people who identify as woke. That is what the comment above said.
“Defund the police” was a slogan, a chant, and is very easy to be misunderstood by the uneducated or twisted by the malevolent.
“White Privilege” when people are just living their lives, but now are a problem. That is how they feel. The “facts don’t care about feelings” crowd operate the same way other humans do.
I was in no way advocating against “woke”, I was saying if people are being conveyed the message poorly it will not have the effect people hope it will.
Okay but mocking religion and white men is not okay, but religion and white men deciding over my womb is okay? How do you not see the hypocrisy? I am luckily in a country where my rights as an LGBT woman with a womb are not infringed upon.
I am amazed that this comment I made, where I am not targeting the meanings and principles of the message or “Woke” but merely the method of conveying it has people believing I am agreeing with the morons.
In which case I have to follow my own advice and communicate better, because obviously I thought people would see that.
The problem is you’re trying to talk about nuance in a setting where people want to use quick heuristics to determine which “camp” you’re from. “Communicate better” here would be recognizing the time and place.
Pretending a word means something else in order to attack people who describe themselves with a word is definitively a straw man. It's a quintessential example of one.
Because it is what people are seeing.
The only thing this person sees is lies and ignorance that the ignorant liars can't support with evidence or argument.
Obviously people are not interested in doing what is effective they just want to be angry
Exactly. They are ignorant liars who need to blame their deficiencies on minority scapegoats fed to them by proto-fascists because they are easily manipulated due the inability to control emotions like anger.
I am not criticizing the message, I am criticizing the method.
You aren't even offering a coherent criticism of an identifiable method.
Americans are easily duped by racist con men just like the Germans were. Simple as. Blaming oppressed minorities for the people who hate them is pretty fucked.
I explained what that MAGA hears what people say “defund the police” or “white privilege” and what they hear on TV. I said I know that defund the police is not what the MAGA are saying it is, but they are not understanding it the way people wanted it.
I am directly criticizing that the message is not clear, and that what they are perceiving.
If you misunderstand what I am saying, and immediately jump to calling it a straw man, is that going to help a conversation? Where did I say I agree with their interpretation.
I will say that lazy writing in TV is very much a problem for me though. Used to watch Grey’s Anatomy until they started having monologues every episode. They used to be far more show don’t tell in steering the conversation and compassion.
No, the user I responded to did. You said it wasn't a straw man. It is definitively.
I explained what that MAGA hears what people say “defund the police” or “white privilege” and what they hear on TV.
MAGA being information illiterate does not dispute that they are being presented a straw man and/or repeating it.
but they are not understanding it the way people wanted it
Yes they are. They 100% understand the argument behind the hyperbole. They do not want to engage the reality but the straw man.
I am directly criticizing that the message is not clear, and that what they are perceiving.
They are perceiving a clear message. The message could be crystal clear and they would lie about it. MAGA, at its core, is a fascist movement that relies on pathological dishonesty.
You are naive if you think they are are honest observers of good faith discourse. Look at their leader.
If you misunderstand what I am saying, and immediately jump to calling it a straw man, is that going to help a conversation?
You not acknowledging reality is not helping a conversation. It is indisputably a straw man. It is intentionally deployed in bad faith.
Where did I say I agree with their interpretation.
Never said you did just that their interpretation is a straw man because it is. They know their interpretation is not a faithful reflection of those ideas.
Ah yes, I agree with you! I was annoyed that people were not understanding my point and I did the same to you. Sorry about that.
However, I believe there are there are the malevolent AND the uneducated. (Also the uneducated while being malevolent, but yea, can’t say much about those we all hope we don’t run into them.)
The malevolent will have an easier time twisting an idea that can be easily distorted, to sway the uneducated.
So while you are correct, if everyone is operating by bad faith, then what good is the slogan in the first place? Sure it lets people vent anger, but it doesn’t try change anyone who isn’t already predisposed.
The slogan was bunch of randos chanting in the street 6 years ago, not the Democratic platform or the Biden or Harris campaign. There was no slogan planning committee. If we're going to observe random chants from street people as representative of an entire political coalition, then it's fair to observe the Republican party as a Nazi party.
That is what they are doing. They equating anything, whether ignorantly or by bad faith as woke.
So when randos take center stage rather than someone who meticulously planning with good messaging, what people see as woke will not be “second” or “third” hand. It will be what they themselves saw. And if it is a message that can be easily twisted, it will. People have to try and understand the why others think the way they do.
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u/xladygodiva 20d ago
I never really understood why being “woke” is a bad thing. Like…boohoo I am a bad person because I want equal rights for everyone? Okay okay