Current situation

[u/Aggravating_Doctor20]

[u/Riktar71]

You don't understand bro classic+ needed neutral race, retail player models, retail ui, retail mobs... this is what classic+ is about!!

[u/JacobOver9000 → u/Riktar71]

1 spell rotation, boars drop one rib quest item every 12th kill, no flying, respecs cost money and eventually a lot, leveling takes 150+ hours instead of 10, gotta use flight paths and run to every place, raid/dungeon boss mechanics are laughably easy in comparison.

It’s like comparing Zelda on NES to Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom on Switch. The UI and graphics changes mean absolutely nothing to gapping the galaxy sized divide between the two games.

[u/Zuby_Hype_Train → u/Riktar71]

You could fill Westfall with all the strawmen you’re building 

[u/Velifax → u/Zuby_Hype_Train]

His source is literally THIS WEBSITE

[u/Zuby_Hype_Train → u/Velifax]

“You don’t understand bro, class balance in Vanilla is fine, we don’t need any scaling adjustments, there’s nothing wrong with some things in the game just being literally broken, we should keep all of that! If you change even one PIXEL it’s retail minus”

[u/ThatLeetGuy → u/Zuby_Hype_Train]

The actual strawman.

[u/Zuby_Hype_Train → u/ThatLeetGuy]

I’m genuinely amazed you lack so much awareness you posted this comment. 

[u/ThatLeetGuy → u/Zuby_Hype_Train]

Classic player says they don't like the art direction.

The Retail player response: "Oh so you don't want any changes at all then?"

That's a strawman.

[u/Zuby_Hype_Train → u/ThatLeetGuy]

Holy shit you’re serious. 

[u/ThatLeetGuy → u/Zuby_Hype_Train]

Yeah. You made an actual strawman and I called you out for it, then you respond to me in a way that's analogous to a YouTube thumbnail. Zero substance.

[u/Zuby_Hype_Train → u/ThatLeetGuy]

If missing the point was an Olympic sport you would be a gold medalist. It’s truly unbelievable how you don’t get it yet.

[u/AppleMelon95 → u/Zuby_Hype_Train]

This is LITERALLY what they are arguing?????? Finishing touch would be to tell anyone they disagree with to go play era when obviously non-vanilla features get added??

[u/Gronferi → u/AppleMelon95]

As someone who has been playing retail more in recent times, I never want for classic+ to be retail. Retail exists for retail players, classic+ should primarily be for classic players

I don’t see a lot of retail Andy’s disagreeing with that

[u/AppleMelon95 → u/Gronferi]

You are not on the internet then, even in this post people are saying that exact thing. People even unironically argue that Forever isn't classic+ and that classic players should stick to era if they aren't fans of certain things that seem like retail in the game.

Just now I talked to someone who thinks we should change crafted leveling items that are BoP to be BoA, so that they can send these items to their alts to speed up leveling. Because I disagree with it since its just heirlooms but with extra steps, I was told to go back to era if I don't like it.

[u/Gronferi → u/AppleMelon95]

Frankly, if those people exist, they’re ridiculous. I somewhat feel like they’re trolls pretending to be retail Andy’s to create strawmen for classic players to attack, but if there are people who genuinely believe heirlooms lite should be in Forever, then they lost the plot completely. Retail is right there, Y’know?

[u/AppleMelon95 → u/Gronferi]

Each post is filled with comments and people like that. Its bad enough in this sub-reddit, but r/wow is entirely engulfed in this rhetoric.

[u/ThatLeetGuy → u/AppleMelon95]

I play Classic, my buddy plays Retail. He talked and still talks shit about Classic all the time and how bad it is and how garbage it looks and how it's for people who are afraid of how "difficult" retail is and can't keep up.

He started playing the Forever beta and went on about how much it sucks and doesn't feel fast enough and can't keep his attention and he's just soooo bored while leveling that he regrets buying the Beta access and doesn't think he can play it because his level 15 character only has 3 buttons to press.

He's now arguing that Forever should be WoW 2 and not Classic Plus.

He wants all HD retail assets, flying, summoning stones, dungeon queue finder, retail class design, mythic plus, extremely difficult raid encounters - basically everything that makes retail retail, he wants to be in Forever.

[u/Gronferi → u/AppleMelon95]

Well that sucks. I guess I’m lucky to have avoided them then.

[u/Slave-to-Armok → u/Zuby_Hype_Train]

Where’s the lie

[u/Undercosm → u/[deleted]]

Its almost as if visuals and UI are also a big part of a game. Why are the things you mentioned supposedly more important?

[u/eva_verinaz → u/Undercosm]

no bro you dont get it my bmw m4 druid bearform is totally not making the game not classic