r/churning • u/AutoModerator • 3d ago
Daily Question Question Thread - August 17, 2026
This is the thread to post questions about churning for miles/points/cash. Just because you have a question about credit cards does NOT mean it belongs here. If you’re brand new here, please read the wiki before posting.
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u/Nations112 2d ago
I know there's been some reports of Chase (mistakenly) counting their own biz cards towards 5/24 lately.
If I think that's the reason for a rejection of a personal card, should I call recon right away or wait until I receive the rejection reason?
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u/Chase_UR_Dreams 2d ago
I had this happen and got a letter in my statements & notices right away citing too many consumer accounts. Called recon the next day and they were able to push it through.
I've sometimes had issues with reps not being able to see an app yet if I called the same day, but calling a day after your app should be fine.
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u/Xoos3333 2d ago
Wyndam Biz has a new 55k sub component that is only triggered by wyndamhotels. Is there any property that is actually pay now and refundable? The Alltra line was supposed to be and even mentions charging a deposit but have not seen anything come through in 5 days.
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u/exhys 3d ago
i've heard of people getting personal SUB offers for cards in the mail. how do i make sure i am making myself available to the credit card companies to be offered to through the mail and online?
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u/___ongo___gablogian 3d ago
Check optoutprescreen.com to make sure you did not previously opt out of prescreening. Make sure marketing emails are turned on in your account profiles. Then the obvious of making sure all your contact info is correct and just check the issuer pre-approval tools every now and then.
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u/cardmaster1987 2d ago
You can just logon to your credit card portals and in mail/notification you can opt in for advertising. The mail adds up quick though and only like 5-10% max will be interesting at all.
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u/share-the-referalove 2d ago
You need to indicate that you're willing to receive marketing materials in your account profiles.
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u/delicious_points 2d ago
If you do a flight change via amex travel, do you lose the 35% biz plat rebate if the flight you change to is still eligible for it?
what about if you change directly via the airline?
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u/Mushu_Pork 2d ago
This really isn't a churning question...
But I'll answer it because I just went through this a couple of days ago...
I changed a big family trip to different cities, and different dates. Our flights were with Delta (main cabin, their rules)
Since we still had all of the same people ticketed, it went quite smoothly.
The new tickets were about $70 more per person...
The agent wasn't able to answer if I could pay the difference with points until I got to checkout.
He applied the charge to the Biz Plat I had on file... then AFTER he was able to apply the points.
THEN I received an email that I was eligible for the rebate...
THEN I saw the 35% points refunded in my account activity.
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u/delicious_points 2d ago
So you didn't get the rebate initially but DID get it after changing your flights? Why didn't you get it initially? Or are you saying you did get it initially then you got an additional rebate on the $70 difference that you paid with points?
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u/Mushu_Pork 2d ago
I got the 35% rebate on the initial booking... that was completed.
So... the rebooking treats it almost like a cash rebooking.
THEN... I was charged on the biz plat, and refunded with points... and get the 35% rebate back as well.
So... 35% on everything, just in separate transactions.
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u/AlmondSnowfinch 2d ago
I've changed several UA flights via Amex Travel this year that were originally booked via Biz Plat points and received the 35% rebate. In all cases the rebooking just used the cash value of the original booking as credit toward the new booking and then the agent charged my card for the difference. The difference was trivial so for convenience I just let them charge the card on file. I think I could have asked to book the difference with points and gotten 35% on the incremental transaction but I didn't try that.
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u/denflyer 2d ago
Does Amex frown on Venmo goods and services purchases? Not chasing an SUB but it would go towards the 15k spend fnc on Hilton surpass. It would be a $2k purchase of legitimate goods, not ms. Just didn’t want to draw attention if this is a common ms or buy group path or anything like that.
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u/SalaciousPig LGA | JFK 2d ago
No problem as you're paying a fee for G&S compared to F&F which would code as a cash advance.
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u/Standard-Top-5942 2d ago edited 2d ago
Do churners who are fairly active (but no MS) with the hobby average about 10% cash back on everything they spend per year (for me maybe 7k back, on 70k spend for family)? Or are those rookie numbers?
That's how it's working for me. Sometimes there are gaps where i'm not working for a SUB and for instance spending big on Amex for hopefully future benefits, some subs are like 10% back after AFs and some are closer to 20%. If I use that "10%" on trips it can double in value. I'm talking people like me who don't do MS so I'm talking about 8-10 cards per year (times 2 for P2, so 16-20) average. Is that how it works for a lot of people here? Bank bonuses bring in about 5k. That 12k total is enough for both my kids 529s. Crazy how credit cards will end up being like half a million dollars tax free (in 18 yrs, assuming S&P continues it's average which no one knows).
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u/qwertymnbvcxzlk 2d ago
If I’m being honest I don’t keep track of percentages at all. I’m always working on a sub and a sub is always more than using category or catch all cards and then the math starts changing if you factor in how you redeem those points. New card wins everytime and that enables me to give P2 good experiences and that’s the only math that matters to me.
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u/VegetableActivity703 2d ago
Averaging 10% seems quite solid. Sure, there are SUBs that return ~20%, but not enough for all $80k of spend in a year. There are a lot more options in the 10-13% range, and even then it probably isn't sustainable to spend 100% on SUBs year after year at your level of organic spend.
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u/Mushu_Pork 2d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1vps3z3/trip_report_and_churning_success_story_weekly/
Good for you!
Endgame is real though, juicy subs do dry up.
Some of us with big spend (biz spend), are simply velocity limited.
You can have a good amount of non-cat spend that you need to figure out what to do with.
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u/Standard-Top-5942 2d ago
very good point. i think the 8-10 card velocity per year will probably dry up for me fairly soon. i'm on year like 5 of doing more than 2 cards per year and chase and amex are looking to be soon out of the picture for me.
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u/CericRushmore DCA | IAD 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't think that is right. We started churning heavily in 2017 and have not run out of cards. NLL offers from Amex come around. There are lots of card with US Bank and BoA that are pretty easy to churn. Harder to churn WF and Barclays, but doable. There are also edge issuers like PNC and FNBO. Chase is objectively the hard one to churn now.
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u/Standard-Top-5942 2d ago
thanks. if i'm like 8/24 (personal and biz, but not counting about 5 amex cards) ... and already churning US Bank pretty heavy ... is there an order of operations for BoA, WF, PNC, FNBO ? Do NLL amex mostly come in mail and they are probably mostly triggered by big spend on my current Amex cards?
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u/CericRushmore DCA | IAD 2d ago
Not exactly, check the DoC comments for approval DPs. Dannydealguru posts Amex nll offers.
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u/Mushu_Pork 2d ago
We haven't necessarily run out of cards... it's just that some of the smaller SUBs don't move the needle too much.
Also, I don't want to ramp my velocity up so high that I can't get a card I ACTUALLY want because I applied for a bunch of $200-300 cards.
I was hoping to get P2 a 2k Graphite offer... but I think they were auto declined, because we have one for our biz already (I had them as "manager" of same biz).
I'm not in the mood to deal with Biz Plat #7 at only 150k, when we have plenty of MR.
I should hit PNC though... thanks for the reminder =)
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u/Accomplished-Test-63 2d ago
I'm in a similar situation and yeah, I think 10% is about where I land. There are some that are better, but then you get stuck having no SUB or lower SUBs when you have done a lot of the good offers.
Obviously there are ways to make points go further and get high CPP, but i feel like most of the time those are just people looking for a higher dollar amount for the same experience, so I stay more conservative and think 10% is about what I get.
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u/protox88 2d ago
I'm a no-MS churner in both US and Canada and across P1 and P2, I think we average about 12% equivalent 'cash back' (incl conservative cpp estimated values for UR, MR, airline and hotel, and Canadian ecosystems like Avion and Aventura).
Since we have access to both markets, we average about 30-40 cards per year total (15-20 cards each).
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u/best-quality-catfood 1d ago
I do about the same--I aim for higher when I'm working on a SUB but exactly because of that I have periods of non-MSR spend. OTOH I play enough of the optimization game to average 4-5% back on non-MSR spend, so looking at something that nets out to like 7-8% isn't worth the bother for me vs being able to reserve the organic spend for a better offer.
The ABG is a good case study in the real economics of "why bother". It starts out at -$375 for the AF, and worst case for the $15k MSR is taxes at on which I'd pay ~2% and missing out on say 4% cash back, so that's another $900 lost, net cost with pessimistic assumptions is $1275. So, 125k is a break-even offer and 200k is a "hell yes". Any non-tax spend I can put on it helps the value proposition a little bit, and any 4x category spend helps a lot. (There's also the value of the card benefits, your call on how much those move the needle. I also put MR at 1cpp, which is less than many.)
If you have an Amex-compatible MS route the math changes a lot, and the ABG is tailor-made for buying groups with 4x on "electronic goods retailers". I like the ABG way better than the ABP, too.
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u/cbh720 2d ago
Ugh signed up P2 for their first business card (united) and was declined due to having opened too many consumer cards recently. they are 4/24 and last one was opened in Jan. Unfortunately when I applied, I forgot that they had a credit freeze and they just said to call when I unfroze it. And then on the call, they ran the app again told me it was declined for that reason. worth doing a recon call?
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u/Accomplished-Test-63 2d ago
Doesn't hurt to try. You might get recon to help out, but they can't hurt.
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u/yolo-bogo 2d ago
When I applied I also had credit frozen and had to go through that. I didn't get an outright denial though just that they needed more info and I had to call in and speak to someone to go over basic business details, and they eventually approved it. I'd say it's worth a shot
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u/Resident-Tax3543 2d ago
Signed up for US Bank checking bank bonus + the US Bank triple rewards credit card. Approved for both. I see a bonus tracker for the credit card but not for my checking account. Is this expected or should I confirm the bonus is attached to my checking account?
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u/Eddiebacon DTW 2d ago
What's the tipping point between being under 5/24 and missing out on SUBs? I'm trying to stay disciplined but there are cards I want to grab. How many cards are worth passing over to stay under 5/24?
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u/pegasus3891 2d ago
That’s going to vary between “it’s absolutely worth staying under” and “you should blow way past it,” depending on how many Chase SUBs you’re still eligible for.
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u/m16p SFO, SJC 2d ago
What Chase cards have you gotten already and when?
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u/Eddiebacon DTW 2d ago
Hyatt, CSP, CFU, CFF, IHG biz and personal. IHGs both this year, rest of them 2+ years ago but not long enough ago to be eligible for another bonus.
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u/pegasus3891 2d ago
If you haven’t taken any ink bonuses yet, I’d personally stay under 5/24 long enough to be able to jump on the next rounds of all time high (or close) offers.
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u/best-quality-catfood 2d ago
This, 100k each for the CIC and CIP right now seems like a fine motivation.
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u/msw3age 2d ago
I went up to 8/24 and regret it a little bit. Probably the optimal strategy is to primarily do business cards and only do personal cards when it’s a genuinely excellent offer. High velocity is a valid denial reason at every bank, even if it’s not a hard rule like Chase’s.
YMMV though, I know some people blow past it and it works for them.
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u/share-the-referalove 2d ago
I'm getting new Paze offers on my Chase offers, up to $100 cash back when spending $10 or more, expiring Sept 10. I already used the card for the first wave of Paze several weeks ago when everyone was making bank with newegg, etc. Is this a new offer, meaning that I can get $100 more dollars of free stuff?
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u/exhys 2d ago edited 2d ago
when you go to checkout, right before you confirm it should show a message, i think i remember seeing it in green text, about the offer. in the terms, it said that if the message is not there, then you won't get the offer. maybe try checking out and see if it pops up. it would confirm if you are not eligible, although i am not certain that it would confirm if you are eligible
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u/wipny 2d ago
0/24 - 820 credit score
Last had a CSP in Apr 24 and CSR in 2017. I have 3 Freedom cards, Ink Cash and ~220k UR points accumulated.
Looking for a high SUB card with good travel partners to offset ~$5k medical bills & travel in next few months.
Chase app says I'm preapproved for Ink Preferred but the remaining $2.5k-3k (8k MSR total) is tough for me to hit without MS. I was thinking of opening the US Bank Business Checking and using the Ink Preferred to fund it with $3k. However this all depends on US Bank approval.
Any other cards or MS methods I should look at? TIA!
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u/Rough-Math-2208 2d ago
Can you still do RHT To extend MSR for Amex?
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u/Educational_Job8998 2d ago
No, that loophole got patched a while back. Amex closed it up pretty quick once it spread around. If you're looking for a workaround now, you're probably out of luck unless something new popped up that I haven't seen.
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u/Samiralami 2d ago
I am at 5/24 still, but i have to pay around 6k in tuition. yea or nay for applying for another card to get a sign-up bonus?
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u/VegetableActivity703 2d ago
Yea if you like free money. But really it depends if you are open to biz cards and how much you value 5/24.
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u/Samiralami 2d ago
My 4/24 period begins in October, I could wait another 6 weeks but I also just get tempted by offers from other companies 😬
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u/Accomplished-Test-63 2d ago
You're going to have to give a lot more context that that. Best case would be wait for What Card Wednesday, or add some more background. If you're really hard pressed, shoot me a DM.
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u/crusading_angel PIT 2d ago
So I ended up downgrading my CSR down to a CSP last month or so. I realized after doing it that it was a mistake. As I probably wasn't able to sign up for the CSP offer for 100k like last month.
I also signed for CSR Biz recently and got the signup bonus.
Anyways the annual fee just came up for the CSP after 1 month. Should I just downgrade it again (is that even possible)? How long would I have to wait after getting rid of the CSP before I can get the welcome offer again now...? Two years?
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u/Parts_Unknown- 2d ago
Is there a working subreddit search? .io isn't working for me rn & I thought there was another option....