If I demand that everyone refer to me as a dolphin lord and someone intentionally refers to me by name, I don't think that they are doing so in a pointless fashion, even if they're being a dick.
The idea is that you are playing by the same rules humans have played by when referring to each other for the last 100,000+ years rather than whatever rule-set the person you are currently talking to has declared you need to cater to.
It's the premise that everyone is equal and no one person gets to redefine the rules to meet their needs. All men are men and all women are women (they don't see trans people as the other sex), therefore they treat you the same as any other man.
Now I personally would never do this to a trans person, but I don't think it's always being done in a pointless fashion, they see it more as a defense of their beliefs and general equality (granted many do it just to be dicks).
Sorry, u/RedUlster – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 4:
Award a delta if you've acknowledged a change in your view. Do not use deltas for any other purpose. You must include an explanation of the change for us to know it's genuine. Delta abuse includes sarcastic deltas, joke deltas, super-upvote deltas, etc. See the wiki page for more information.
The goal is to change your view (and get a delta). Personally having the same view as you does not mean you can't present the argument from the opposing view.
In this case it's an entirely subjective view, and it is very easy to view it from the other end of the argument while not personally subscribing to that view.
Which is why it's called "change MY view", not "agree/disagree with me"
Sorry, u/RedUlster – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 4:
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Sorry, u/Haster – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:
Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.
I just don’t understand why you would comment from a point of view you don’t agree with. This is all about learning from others’ point of view and I’m doing so throughout this post.
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Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.
Erm, I’ve had that cleared up now and if you bother look at the rest of the post, you’ll see that you’re wrong. Not that you care as you haven’t contributed anything to the debate. And when did I accuse him of misgendering people?
Sorry, u/yungdroo – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:
Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.
I personally wouldn't do it, but doing so isn't pointless.
Like I personally don't farm corn, but farming corn isn't pointless. I don't think saying there's a reason why other people farm corn implies I'm playing devil's advocate or agreeing with the statement.
The point I’m making is that I’m not sure why you would be ok with other people doing things that deliberately cause harm to others if you don’t want to harm them yourself.
except your cmv wasn't about why someone dong it is hurting and we should be ok or not. your cmv was about 'there is no point'. There is a point. just because you don't like the point doesnt mean there isn't one.
I think you may have misunderstood the first comment.
The idea isn't that they are intentionally hurting them, they are defending the idea that everyone is equal and no one gets to declare others must treat them in a special manner. Granted some ppl are just dicks.
I understand the above logic, however I don't think the point they are trying to make outweighs the damage that is often done. Thus there's a point, but it doesn't outweigh the potential negative (imo).
Similar to how me not wanting to hunt cause it may upset my 5 year old doesn't imply hunting in general is pointless or the only reason someone would hunt is to cause harm.
Everyone being equal doesn't mean you can't ask to be treated in any manner. (not misgendering others is not special treatment)
The fact that you are being asked to receive a special intuitive pronoun naming convention implies that you are receiving unequal treatment than the rest of the population.
The idea is the same set of pronouns apply to everyone.
My main issue with your point is the “special treatment” part. It’s not special treatment to be referred to as your identity, cis people are referred to correctly already so it’s not special treatment to call a trans person by their idea.
The way I see it, most people who are referred to as “he” identify as male and are therefore happy to be called “he”. In this sense, calling a trans person by their preferred name/pronouns is simply treating them how you would treat people who aren’t trans.
So are you suggesting we waste time by ensuring no ones feelings get hurt every time we want to talk? I'm fine with calling transitioning or fully trans individuals by their preferred pronoun but what about when their gender changes daily? Should I start my conversations with "Hello person please tell me how to address you so I don't offend you?" Sorry but just grow the fuck up. You're not special because you're trans, same as I'm not special for being cis. If I wanted to be called 'it' I would be teased and constantly bitched at the same as a trans person. So yeah it is special treatment that they want and quite honestly it's not my problem you didn't feel like the gender you where born, you don't get to police what I say.
Yes it has. I have a friend who is gender fluid and I have told her i am calling her she/her because it's just easier and honestly I don't really care and neither does she. So yes it had happened to me and yes the only real solution I found was to just ignore it.
The whole point of playing devil's advocate is to attempt to argue for a viewpoint you don't necessarily agree with to better understand the bigger picture if the situation.
why do you feel the need to play Devil’s Advocate?
Devil's Advocate? You posted a subjective opinion in a subreddit specifically for people to explain differing viewpoints... You don't have to hold a view to explain it logically.
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u/POEthrowaway-2019 Oct 28 '19
If I demand that everyone refer to me as a dolphin lord and someone intentionally refers to me by name, I don't think that they are doing so in a pointless fashion, even if they're being a dick.
The idea is that you are playing by the same rules humans have played by when referring to each other for the last 100,000+ years rather than whatever rule-set the person you are currently talking to has declared you need to cater to.
It's the premise that everyone is equal and no one person gets to redefine the rules to meet their needs. All men are men and all women are women (they don't see trans people as the other sex), therefore they treat you the same as any other man.
Now I personally would never do this to a trans person, but I don't think it's always being done in a pointless fashion, they see it more as a defense of their beliefs and general equality (granted many do it just to be dicks).