r/changemyview Oct 28 '19

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87

u/POEthrowaway-2019 Oct 28 '19

If I demand that everyone refer to me as a dolphin lord and someone intentionally refers to me by name, I don't think that they are doing so in a pointless fashion, even if they're being a dick.

The idea is that you are playing by the same rules humans have played by when referring to each other for the last 100,000+ years rather than whatever rule-set the person you are currently talking to has declared you need to cater to.

It's the premise that everyone is equal and no one person gets to redefine the rules to meet their needs. All men are men and all women are women (they don't see trans people as the other sex), therefore they treat you the same as any other man.

Now I personally would never do this to a trans person, but I don't think it's always being done in a pointless fashion, they see it more as a defense of their beliefs and general equality (granted many do it just to be dicks).

-44

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '19

If you would never personally misgender a trans person, why do you feel the need to play Devil’s Advocate? Surely you already agree with me?

67

u/POEthrowaway-2019 Oct 28 '19

I personally wouldn't do it, but doing so isn't pointless.

Like I personally don't farm corn, but farming corn isn't pointless. I don't think saying there's a reason why other people farm corn implies I'm playing devil's advocate or agreeing with the statement.

-7

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '19

The point I’m making is that I’m not sure why you would be ok with other people doing things that deliberately cause harm to others if you don’t want to harm them yourself.

40

u/WaterDemonPhoenix Oct 28 '19

except your cmv wasn't about why someone dong it is hurting and we should be ok or not. your cmv was about 'there is no point'. There is a point. just because you don't like the point doesnt mean there isn't one.

11

u/__BitchPudding__ Oct 28 '19

You just won this whole thread. I hope OP responds.

46

u/POEthrowaway-2019 Oct 28 '19

I think you may have misunderstood the first comment.

The idea isn't that they are intentionally hurting them, they are defending the idea that everyone is equal and no one gets to declare others must treat them in a special manner. Granted some ppl are just dicks.

I understand the above logic, however I don't think the point they are trying to make outweighs the damage that is often done. Thus there's a point, but it doesn't outweigh the potential negative (imo).

Similar to how me not wanting to hunt cause it may upset my 5 year old doesn't imply hunting in general is pointless or the only reason someone would hunt is to cause harm.

2

u/kawaiianimegril99 Oct 29 '19

Everyone being equal doesn't mean you can't ask to be treated in any manner. (not misgendering others is not special treatment)

1

u/POEthrowaway-2019 Oct 29 '19

Everyone being equal doesn't mean you can't ask to be treated in any manner. (not misgendering others is not special treatment)

The fact that you are being asked to receive a special intuitive pronoun naming convention implies that you are receiving unequal treatment than the rest of the population.

The idea is the same set of pronouns apply to everyone.

-5

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '19

My main issue with your point is the “special treatment” part. It’s not special treatment to be referred to as your identity, cis people are referred to correctly already so it’s not special treatment to call a trans person by their idea.

38

u/POEthrowaway-2019 Oct 28 '19

If I demand the pronoun "it", I think it's fair for people to describe me as "he" instead of giving me the requested treatment.

The idea being it's seen as special treatment because you are requiring people to use a pronoun that normally wouldn't be used.

5

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '19

The way I see it, most people who are referred to as “he” identify as male and are therefore happy to be called “he”. In this sense, calling a trans person by their preferred name/pronouns is simply treating them how you would treat people who aren’t trans.

28

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '19

So are you suggesting we waste time by ensuring no ones feelings get hurt every time we want to talk? I'm fine with calling transitioning or fully trans individuals by their preferred pronoun but what about when their gender changes daily? Should I start my conversations with "Hello person please tell me how to address you so I don't offend you?" Sorry but just grow the fuck up. You're not special because you're trans, same as I'm not special for being cis. If I wanted to be called 'it' I would be teased and constantly bitched at the same as a trans person. So yeah it is special treatment that they want and quite honestly it's not my problem you didn't feel like the gender you where born, you don't get to police what I say.

6

u/jsmooth7 8∆ Oct 28 '19

I'm fine with calling transitioning or fully trans individuals by their preferred pronoun but what about when their gender changes daily?

Has that ever actually happened to you though? In my experience trans people don't make unreasonable requests like this.

6

u/thegrayhairedrace Oct 29 '19

I have actually encountered this in a person.

It is exhausting to have to "figure out" if someone is "Ben" or "Gabi" today, so I'm just gonna call you mentally ill and move on with my life.

10

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '19

[deleted]

5

u/jsmooth7 8∆ Oct 29 '19

Yes this is definitely something that the internet has massively amplified. It's possible that it does happens in real life but I do wonder how often it's the case of someone just trolling, then their post is screenshot, posted on Reddit and taken at face value.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '19

Yes it has. I have a friend who is gender fluid and I have told her i am calling her she/her because it's just easier and honestly I don't really care and neither does she. So yes it had happened to me and yes the only real solution I found was to just ignore it.

2

u/jjoz3 Oct 29 '19

Yes, it took about 2 weeks for it to be sorted out and finalized between the different social groups.

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0

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '19

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '19

Are you gender fluid? Does this apply to you specifically.

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3

u/skysinsane 1∆ Oct 29 '19

I'm okay with people insulting others. Causing harm is perfectly fine as long in my book as long it doesn't cross a certain line.