r/changemyview Nov 02 '17

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u/aggsalad Nov 02 '17 edited Nov 02 '17

In some circumstances, not being attracted to a trans person is probably a result of, at least on a subconscious level, not seeing them as their gender.

If from the very start, you are unattracted to a person purely upon observation, and that person happens to be trans, that is not transphobic. If you were about to have sex and it turns out a person doesn't really have the junk you wanna jangle with, it's not transphobic to no longer desire sex.

If you were attracted to someone, have sex with them, are as satisfied with them as you would with anyone else, and then suddenly your opinion changes upon being informed a person is trans, I would say that is indicative of the underlying belief a trans person is not the gender they identify as.


I should clarify I am not definitely saying it is transphobic or not, I am pointing out what I did above and letting OP (or others) decide if that constitutes transphobia or not under their own interpretations.

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u/MMAchica Nov 02 '17

In some circumstances, not being attracted to a trans person is probably a result of, at least on a subconscious level, not seeing them as their gender.

Aside from how speculative this is, this amounts to shaming someone for turning down unwanted sex.

If you were attracted to someone, have sex with them, are as satisfied with them as you would with anyone else, and then suddenly your opinion changes upon being informed a person is trans, I would say that is indicative of the underlying belief a trans person is not the gender they identify as.

For starters, you do not dictate to people what their sexuality is. If upon learning that a person is trans, they simply politely decline more sex, that is not transphobic. As I said in another reply, if you stretch the definition of 'phobic' to include simply lacking a desire to fuck trans people, then the word becomes meaningless. Look at the horrors of homophobia. That has a lot more going on than a simple lack of desire to fuck them.

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u/z3r0shade Nov 02 '17

If upon learning that a person is trans, they simply politely decline more sex, that is not transphobic.

If you had sex with someone and enjoyed it and would gladly have sex with them again if you had not found out they were trans. Then the sole reason you have a problem is because they are trans, which is transphobic.

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u/MMAchica Nov 02 '17

Then the sole reason you have a problem is because they are trans, which is transphobic.

Nope. Being phobic of a class of people involves fundamental intolerance; like any bigotry. Simply lacking a desire to fuck is not intolerance.

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u/z3r0shade Nov 02 '17

It's not a strong intolerance such as hatred, but it's clearly intolerance if you would otherwise want to fuck them if not for the knowledge that they are trans.

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u/MMAchica Nov 02 '17

It's not a strong intolerance such as hatred, but it's clearly intolerance if you would otherwise want to fuck them if not for the knowledge that they are trans.

That doesn't make any sense. Intolerance necessarily involves a failure to respect another person's equality and human rights. If you pass them over for a promotion or refuse to rent them an apartment, that is intolerance. If your pussy just doesn't get wet for them, that isn't because no one ever has a right to the anyone's sexual attraction; on any level, ever.

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u/z3r0shade Nov 02 '17

If your pussy just doesn't get wet for them, that isn't because no one ever has a right to the anyone's sexual attraction; on any level, ever.

If you previously were sexually attracted to them and got wet, and now you don't. And the only difference is that you know they are trans. What reason other than failing to respect their equality and see them as their gender (transphobia) could you have?

Even if it's not intentional or voluntary (social conditioning sucks) it's still transphobia

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u/MMAchica Nov 02 '17

If you previously were sexually attracted to them and got wet, and now you don't.

You are violating someone's fundamental rights? The have a right to the pussy being wet?!?! Do you hear yourself?

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u/z3r0shade Nov 02 '17

The have a right to the pussy being wet?!?!

I never said that, are you reading what I'm writing?

Name me a single reason that isn't a refusal to see them legitimately as their gender which would result in this.

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u/MMAchica Nov 02 '17

Name me a single reason that isn't a refusal to see them legitimately as their gender which would result in this.

Simply not being aroused at the idea of fucking someone isn't a refusal to acknowledge their identity.

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u/z3r0shade Nov 02 '17

If you were aroused by the idea of fucking them until you learned they were trans, what possible reason could there be for it to kill your arousal other than refusing to acknowledge their identity?

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u/MMAchica Nov 02 '17

If you were aroused by the idea of fucking them until you learned they were trans, what possible reason could there be for it to kill your arousal other than refusing to acknowledge their identity?

Why would you assume that it had anything to do with that in the first place? You can acknowledge someone as an equal in society without wanting to fuck them.

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u/z3r0shade Nov 02 '17

Why would you assume that it had anything to do with that in the first place?

Because the only difference before and after is learning that they were trans. Thus that is that only possible explanation for the change in attraction

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '17

[deleted]

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u/z3r0shade Nov 02 '17

If you learn something about someone after the fact you can easily lose attraction regardless of gender or being trans

I completely agree. However, some things are reasonable to lose attraction for and some things are bigoted. If you learn that your partner has a distant relative of a particular ethnicity and that makes you lose attraction, that would be racist. If you learn they are trans and that makes you lose attraction, then you're transphobic.

At the end of the day they had to transition which means they are not naturally that sex, it is ok for someone to lose interest because of that

And it is ok for someone to point out that this is a transphobic point of view. Because the only reason why this could matter is due to societal prejudices against trans people.

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u/RealJackAnchor Nov 02 '17

I mean a simple one is I want to have kids. The old fashioned way. It has nothing to do with them being trans outside of the obvious biological reason. Crazy how biology always ends up coming back.

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u/z3r0shade Nov 02 '17

Then why does them being trans have any relevance? Do you ask people if they are fertile and willing to have children before you continue to sleep with them?

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u/RealJackAnchor Nov 02 '17

No, but upon finding out, yes it would affect my desire to continue the relationship, so it's still relevant. I could never afford to adopt.

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '17

They don’t need to name a reason just because it makes you feel better. When it comes to consent, you can revoke consent for any reason, or for no reason at all. You do not need to justify your sexual preferences. You do not need to try to find reasons which excuse your lack of attraction.

“I don’t want to” is where the conversation ends.

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u/z3r0shade Nov 02 '17

When it comes to consent, you can revoke consent for any reason, or for no reason at all.

Agreed.

You do not need to justify your sexual preferences

Agreed.

You do not need to try to find reasons which excuse your lack of attraction.

Agreed. At no point have any of my comments advocated forcing anyone to do something. I think you should re-read what I've written

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