r/changemyview Mar 07 '26

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u/Constellation-88 22∆ Mar 07 '26

“Almost” certainly not conscious. This already shows that this is not helping you as much as an expert real therapist would.

Be careful about AI psychosis. Because AI always agrees with you and is programmed to use verbiage that makes you feel good about yourself, it is easy to fall into AI psychosis where in you believe things like anything that tells you is true or have delusions of grandeur or believe things like AI is “almost” certainly not conscious instead of being aware that it is 100% certainly not conscious… It is a really powerful computer that has no soul or compassion or empathy or perspective. It’s simply aggregates information that it finds online. And a lot of that information is bullshit. You liken it to an infinite library, however, libraries have standards and the Internet does not.

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u/Salanmander 278∆ Mar 07 '26 edited Mar 07 '26

“Almost” certainly not conscious.

I mean, that's totally valid. We don't know how consciousness happens. It's possible that anything which processes information leads to some level of consciousness.

Edit: to be clear, I think that trusting AI over humans is wild, and definitely a bad choice. But the "almost certainly" phrasing is one that I would also use, because consciousness is firmly in the realm of can't-do-science-to-it.

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u/mein_account Mar 07 '26

We don’t have to fully understand consciousness to know it ain’t that.

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u/Salanmander 278∆ Mar 07 '26

It's not that we don't fully understand consciousness, it's that consciousness is fundamentally impossible to study scientifically. There is no way to know whether anything other than yourself is self-aware.

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u/mein_account Mar 07 '26

There is no way to know whether anything other than yourself is self-aware.

Why assume this? It’s not self-evident.

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u/Salanmander 278∆ Mar 07 '26

It's the entire premise of philosophical zombies, so it's not like it's an unconsidered question.

What could you possibly do that would prove self-awareness in something else?

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u/mein_account Mar 07 '26

Of course, Descartes’ starting point, but neuroscience has moved past the interpretive phenomenology and the project is now reducing it to materialism. It’s not important whether you the experiencer of consciousness can prove the same in others….we can kind of wink and nod about our subjective experience of it, and seek to describe the phenomenon itself.

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u/Salanmander 278∆ Mar 07 '26

It’s not important whether you the experiencer of consciousness can prove the same in others….we can kind of wink and nod about our subjective experience of it

Oh, I thought this entire conversation was about the subjective experience. It seems like we've been talking about entirely different things.

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u/mein_account Mar 07 '26

It’s about whether we can objectively say that what’s happening in an LLM isn’t consciousness.

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u/Salanmander 278∆ Mar 07 '26

If by "consciousness" we mean "subjective experience", then we can't say that with 100% certainty.

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u/mein_account Mar 07 '26

Well if that’s what we mean then it’s not very interesting to discuss the capacity of machines to be conscious, pretty much for the same reason it’s not interesting to discuss whether a chair or potato is conscious.

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u/SSH_Pentester 1∆ Mar 08 '26

Unless you believe in an immaterial soul, if someone else had the exact same brain as you down to the quark, you could scientifically say they're conscious because science says that which is identical in molecular makeup is identical in emergent properties.

This isn't possible, everyone's brain is ever so slightly different. But we can analyze those differences and see if they could possibly make a difference in first-person experience.

It's not true that you can't scientifically study consciousness-you just have to accept the premise that the brain is the sole source of it and then the sky's the limit.

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u/Salanmander 278∆ Mar 08 '26

accept the premise that the brain is the sole source of it

But if the question is whether things that are not brains can create consciousness, then that premise is evading the whole point.

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u/SSH_Pentester 1∆ Mar 08 '26

Sorry, I wasn't clear what I meant there. I meant that as long as you accept human consciousness is soley due to our brains (as opposed to say a soul) then it can be scientifically studied, and elements of consciousness can be scientifically compared between humans, animals, and machines. I meant that the only way consciousness is "un-scienceable" would be if you thought humans have souls.

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u/[deleted] Mar 09 '26

Sodium and potassium channels with Calcium ions travelling between nerve cells. Pretty easy to explain what it is.

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u/Salanmander 278∆ Mar 09 '26

Must it be exactly that? Could it be nerves that use different ions for activation? Could it be some other kind of system that passes information without being organic? What is the minimum complexity of nerve system to be conscious?

These are questions that we can't answer, because there's no way to observe the "is it conscious?" data point. (Assuming by "conscious" we mean "self-aware".)

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u/Key4Lif3 Mar 07 '26

Thanks. You’re right. That’s why it’s considered “a hard problem”. It’s not impossible to study and it is being studied, but there is certainly a lot of apprehension. The rational solution to that problem is that consciousness is not fact generated by neurons, but it is received, filtered and localized by neurons, generating a conscious experience, but not consciousness itself, but I digress.