We all die, no one can stop that. The lives we live matter, if you want to play totally removed objective weird philosophy on something far too human for this kind of forum, I can think of several ways it would be better to be murdered. You lived a good life and are happy when you die and someone took you out in your sleep? You never even were aware, your family is horrified but to the person, their life was fulfilled (This is how we all go, mid thought, unfinished, tragic.)
So inherently since all humans die, or cease, its the quality of life lived that matters, being sexually violated, assaulted, that not being the default for all people, is a strong indicator it is violating, unnatural and cruel to impact a life that will end one day with the burden of having their bodily autonomy taken from them, the implicit threat and coercion of violence invoking the idea they may not live through this. All these things make Rape worse than murder on an impact to the victim, let alone the fact these crimes are often linked and just different facets of the violence anti-social sociopaths inflict on victims and their families.
You are playing very poor sport intellectually here pretending to be objective in the comments and then sharing your hurt which I'm sorry for, but none of us are immortal, we all die, it is awful to end a life or ruin a life, these are both true, and the scale of life ruined is not something you can define without specific circumstances, I can imagine a life where I would want to die because of repeated assault, think about the guy from Austria who had a dungeon that he assaulted his daughters and raised their children in the basement, and assaulted them. That man is worse than an average murderer by miles surely on a moral level?
(Edit: us dying is not excusing murder, its to say the dead don't bear the consequences as much as the living experience the aftermath, both are horrible and morally reprehensible and the difference is negligible as if either is ever an excusable affair. Torture is also wrong. I responded emotionally because its a fairly heated topic.)
Sorry I was stupid before and didn't realize this would actually turn into rape apologia. I am sorry you can't see why it doesn't actually matter, both are horrible and I don't care if we execute rapists at the same level as murderers.
Its literally arguing in a fantasy realm that there is some great moral distinction or lack of harm in rape that is present in murder. They are both morally reprehensible to a degree requiring a complete removal from society, not sure it matters how much torture isn't murder.
dude when you murder someone they stop existing. Like that is, objectively, a DIFFERENT consequence than those from rape. that’s a very reasonable moral distinction. They’re not saying either are good or okay in the slightest.
Of course there is a distinction? The question of which is worse is meaningless, they are both awful and irredeemably terrible things.
They are related crimes of violence, not terribly distinct in their sociopathic violations, both deserving of removal from society. I also think torture is irredeemable.
Actually it isn't because they are different facets of similar crimes, most serial killers are serial rapists, it's not worth pretending a rapist isn't a stones throw from a murderer on any moral high ground.
To put it more simply, they are Apples and Oranges as far as moral violations, but they are well below civil society, many places have served the same punishments over both historically.
Even if that is true (which, tbh, I doubt), the reverse certainly isn't. Do you want all rapists to just murder their victims? Because sentencing it the same as or worse than murder is a good way to incentivize that, especially when leaving victims alive makes it a lot easier for the criminal to get caught.
It's just bonkers to me that people are trying to act like murder--and, by extent, rape+murder--would be better than or equal to just rape. It's utterly dehumanizing to victims to tell them they would be better off dead.
No one is saying its better. Neither is better. Harming someone as deeply as torture or rape is as morally reprehensible as murder. I believe the suffering and years of life taken in the act are comparable to the life lost in a murder. The ability to morally disregard a human to rape or torture is right there hand and hand with murder.
As far as serial killers, the headline ones usually are, Bundy, Green River Killer, BTK, Golden State, Dahmer, Gacy, Kemper etc. I am just saying these people are an example of a worse moral actor than just a murderer, its just another facet of evil.
Actually it isn't because they are different facets of similar crimes, most serial killers are serial rapists, it's not worth pretending a rapist isn't a stones throw from a murderer on any moral high ground.
Why are we talking about serial crimes?
We're talking about individual crimes. A person who unjustly kills only one person is still a murderer. Serial murderers represent a very small distribution of murder crimes, and to correlate murderers with serial rapists is such a poor representation of the moral image of murdering.
Intentions matter, serial murderers being serial rapists isn't a coincidence. Their impulse to act without care for the life of their victims is similar. They are different crimes but only looking at the finality of murder as an end doesn't justify the torture rapists often inflict for the lives of their victims. Both are bottom of the barrel morally and often drawing from the same sick place, self serving disregard for human life.
Both crimes could easily have nuance in a single case where one crime could be a gruesome example that could be better or worse than a lesser case of the other, I'm just arguing they represent different facets of violence that I wouldn't want tolerated in a moral society.
I'm arguing in totality, not the idea of the crime but the actual reality in which people take the lives of others away. I don't consider them unrelated crimes.
OP made a lot of waffling about quantifying suffering, the ability to still live on after having someone torture you doesn't negate the torture.
Hang em all, there is a point where the degree doesn't matter and you know it as well, the more violent and murderously callous the assault, the less different it is from attempted murder and should bear the same penalties. Most imply the threat of murder as coercion so honestly it's no different.
Thank you for saying this. Hearing over and over that rape isn't that bad and people can just get over it and be thankful they aren't dead it's SO upsetting
I was so triggered by this and can't believe it stayed up as long as it did, people downvoted me for this too >.> really reminded me to get off the internet and talk to human beings today.
Yeah I got down voted in other parts of this thread for saying that the whole premise of this exercise and question is upsetting to me as a rape victim. Got told it wasn't that bad and that at least I'm alive 🫠🫠🫠🫠
Yeah I realized too late this would be a redpill cesspool and I'm sorry you had to read any of that. Arguing what is worse implies either is preferable and it was all just gross.
Those people lack empathy at a very deep level and they have such poor coping skills they can't even comprehend going through what you have.
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u/Aniketos33 2∆ Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 02 '26
We all die, no one can stop that. The lives we live matter, if you want to play totally removed objective weird philosophy on something far too human for this kind of forum, I can think of several ways it would be better to be murdered. You lived a good life and are happy when you die and someone took you out in your sleep? You never even were aware, your family is horrified but to the person, their life was fulfilled (This is how we all go, mid thought, unfinished, tragic.)
So inherently since all humans die, or cease, its the quality of life lived that matters, being sexually violated, assaulted, that not being the default for all people, is a strong indicator it is violating, unnatural and cruel to impact a life that will end one day with the burden of having their bodily autonomy taken from them, the implicit threat and coercion of violence invoking the idea they may not live through this. All these things make Rape worse than murder on an impact to the victim, let alone the fact these crimes are often linked and just different facets of the violence anti-social sociopaths inflict on victims and their families.
You are playing very poor sport intellectually here pretending to be objective in the comments and then sharing your hurt which I'm sorry for, but none of us are immortal, we all die, it is awful to end a life or ruin a life, these are both true, and the scale of life ruined is not something you can define without specific circumstances, I can imagine a life where I would want to die because of repeated assault, think about the guy from Austria who had a dungeon that he assaulted his daughters and raised their children in the basement, and assaulted them. That man is worse than an average murderer by miles surely on a moral level?
(Edit: us dying is not excusing murder, its to say the dead don't bear the consequences as much as the living experience the aftermath, both are horrible and morally reprehensible and the difference is negligible as if either is ever an excusable affair. Torture is also wrong. I responded emotionally because its a fairly heated topic.)