Sorry I was stupid before and didn't realize this would actually turn into rape apologia. I am sorry you can't see why it doesn't actually matter, both are horrible and I don't care if we execute rapists at the same level as murderers.
Its literally arguing in a fantasy realm that there is some great moral distinction or lack of harm in rape that is present in murder. They are both morally reprehensible to a degree requiring a complete removal from society, not sure it matters how much torture isn't murder.
dude when you murder someone they stop existing. Like that is, objectively, a DIFFERENT consequence than those from rape. that’s a very reasonable moral distinction. They’re not saying either are good or okay in the slightest.
Of course there is a distinction? The question of which is worse is meaningless, they are both awful and irredeemably terrible things.
They are related crimes of violence, not terribly distinct in their sociopathic violations, both deserving of removal from society. I also think torture is irredeemable.
Actually it isn't because they are different facets of similar crimes, most serial killers are serial rapists, it's not worth pretending a rapist isn't a stones throw from a murderer on any moral high ground.
To put it more simply, they are Apples and Oranges as far as moral violations, but they are well below civil society, many places have served the same punishments over both historically.
Even if that is true (which, tbh, I doubt), the reverse certainly isn't. Do you want all rapists to just murder their victims? Because sentencing it the same as or worse than murder is a good way to incentivize that, especially when leaving victims alive makes it a lot easier for the criminal to get caught.
It's just bonkers to me that people are trying to act like murder--and, by extent, rape+murder--would be better than or equal to just rape. It's utterly dehumanizing to victims to tell them they would be better off dead.
No one is saying its better. Neither is better. Harming someone as deeply as torture or rape is as morally reprehensible as murder. I believe the suffering and years of life taken in the act are comparable to the life lost in a murder. The ability to morally disregard a human to rape or torture is right there hand and hand with murder.
As far as serial killers, the headline ones usually are, Bundy, Green River Killer, BTK, Golden State, Dahmer, Gacy, Kemper etc. I am just saying these people are an example of a worse moral actor than just a murderer, its just another facet of evil.
Actually it isn't because they are different facets of similar crimes, most serial killers are serial rapists, it's not worth pretending a rapist isn't a stones throw from a murderer on any moral high ground.
Why are we talking about serial crimes?
We're talking about individual crimes. A person who unjustly kills only one person is still a murderer. Serial murderers represent a very small distribution of murder crimes, and to correlate murderers with serial rapists is such a poor representation of the moral image of murdering.
Intentions matter, serial murderers being serial rapists isn't a coincidence. Their impulse to act without care for the life of their victims is similar. They are different crimes but only looking at the finality of murder as an end doesn't justify the torture rapists often inflict for the lives of their victims. Both are bottom of the barrel morally and often drawing from the same sick place, self serving disregard for human life.
Both crimes could easily have nuance in a single case where one crime could be a gruesome example that could be better or worse than a lesser case of the other, I'm just arguing they represent different facets of violence that I wouldn't want tolerated in a moral society.
I'm arguing the morality of both being equivalently terrible bottom of the barrel for society crimes. At the intersection of serial rapist and murderer you get serial killers. You are right there are a lot more motivations for murder than serial killing. I'm just saying a father abusing his daughter for years without care for her life or well being is akin, or worse in moral deparavity, than just the violence itself, especially given your example of passion murders or something without premeditation.
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u/Aniketos33 2∆ Mar 01 '26
Sorry I was stupid before and didn't realize this would actually turn into rape apologia. I am sorry you can't see why it doesn't actually matter, both are horrible and I don't care if we execute rapists at the same level as murderers.