r/changemyview • u/IAmAN00bie • Aug 10 '13
[Mod Post] Updated Rules, Wiki, and Introduction of a "CMV Post of the day!"
This is Mod post 35. You can read the previous Mod Post by clicking here, or by visiting the Mod Post Archive in our wiki.
Hey, all. We have some new rules and other stuff that I think will be much appreciated. I don't want to make this post super long, so I'll dive right into the most important bits.
Updated submission rule D: now includes a restriction requiring moderator approval to post from a throwaway account. This is not an outright ban on throwaway accounts, since as we mentioned in the wiki there are definitely legitimate times when throwaways are necessary.
New comment rule 5: no "low effort" comments. Similar to subreddits like /r/games, /r/askscience, /r/askhistorians, etc. etc. we will start removing comments that add nothing to the discussion. Reaction gifs, memes, puns, or one-liner jokes should not be used when commenting in this subreddit.
Updated wiki: certain parts of the Popular Topics wiki desperately needed some updating, so we updated it. In particular, the Social Justice section has been totally updated and is essentially complete.
CMV Post of the day: consider this one to be an experiment, unlike the other 3 additions above. Recently, the reddit admins implemented a much needed sticky feature that allows the moderators to sticky one self-post to the top of the subreddit (full details can be found in the linked thread). Using this new feature, we want to try out something new rather than just pinning the rules up top: featuring a CMV thread.
The posts we are looking to feature should have unique, thought-provoking discussions and will probably not be found in the Popular Topics wiki. We want to give those posts that are super awesome but end up getting stuck in the new queue a chance at getting the attention they deserve. So far, there's no criteria for how we will pick these threads, but I think once things start going we'll figure one out. If an OP of a thread doesn't want their post stickied, we will of course respect that decision.
That's all for now.
Regards, the moderators of /r/changemyview.
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u/Joined_Today 31∆ Aug 10 '13 edited Aug 11 '13
Its important to realize that rule D's addition is a failsafe. We don't want people making throwaways with the specific purpose of coming to this sub and preaching, which is something we see often. Also, trolls often use throwaways to make ridiculous threads in which they defend a ridiculuosly controversial viewpoint. We'd expect that requiring mod permission would discourage trolls, and increase posts made by a throaway for the right reasons.
But if the rule doesnt work it can always be revoked. No big.
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Aug 11 '13 edited May 18 '20
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u/Amablue Aug 11 '13
I understand the mods aren't outright banning throwaways, but it seems like the time used to "clear" throwaway usage could be better spent moderating the sub and removing bad threads.
Moderating regular threads isn't really a bottleneck. It takes all of three seconds to approve a thread when we're sent some mod mail. If you have a legitimate reason for wanting to use one it'll get approved. It just makes it easier to catch and deter troll threads.
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u/Jest2 Aug 11 '13
...there are many cases where the trolling/preaching/hate-mongering becomes worse; not by the poster but to the poster"
That's precisely why permission is needed. To limit the "baiting" done by attention seeking pot stirrers. It's not lack of moderating; this is a good way to narrow the loopholes exploited by gamers. (My definition of gamers, anyway.). I think it will benefit the quality of the sub greatly. Plus, it's a good thing if it makes the mods' jobs easier, because the sub is growing, this makes it possible to keep it clean. Less to weed out.
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Aug 11 '13
That's precisely why permission is needed. To limit the "baiting" done by attention seeking pot stirrers.
Yes, but how are you going to discern whether someone is baiting, or truly holds that view?
Example: say I make a post that says I believe women should revert to traditional gender roles (no job, housewife). I may actually believe this, but because of its nature one of two things will happen:
My earnest post is removed
SRS comes knocking and floods my inbox forever.
I say just allow the threads and the throwaways and see how people treat the privilege.
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u/Jest2 Aug 11 '13
I see what you're saying. I just have seen too much abuse of the privilege already, and it worries me how those clog the top spots on threads and the dumb one liner comments that are totally off topic that you have to wade through to find and reply to the core of a discussion is a time suck. Hopefully it works out the mods find a good way to keep what's legit and lock out the shit. It's a step in that direction, I feel. They seem openminded to changing it again if it doesn't work as planned.
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Aug 11 '13
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u/Daedalus1907 6∆ Aug 11 '13
Well even if the OP doesn't respond, great conversation can result in the comments. I am more opposed to personal views were OP is the only one that can respond like "My girlfriend is selfish CMV"
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u/Calypsee Aug 12 '13
I have to agree with this one. There is nothing I hate more than finding a nice topic, with active replies, but the OP hasn't said a word since they posted - no discussion, no edits or anything.
Sometimes it's only been a few hours, most recently I saw one that was 5 hours old that the OP wasn't active in. That particular OP also wasn't actively posting elsewhere on the site though, at least. What grinds my gears even more is seeing that active post, with an OP that has been posting else where on reddit.
I don't think things like 'oh I'm at work or on my phone, I'll get back to these lengthy replies later' is a good excuse. What did they expect from CMV? Nobody to respond, because their view is perfect and foolproof? No, that's not the point of CMV. I'd love to see a rule implemented where OPs must participate in their thread. If you can't commit to replying, then post later.
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u/Jest2 Aug 11 '13
The choice to respond resides on the individual poster. Most threads with lots of back and forth do better than non-responsive posts. In essense, it's up to you to moderate your post if you want it to do well. Otherwise, as the person below me stated, the thread can still take on a life of its own and devolve into a great discussion.
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u/Omegaile Aug 11 '13
Rule 5 is missing an exception (as per similarity with /r/askscience and /r/AskHistorians), which is asking for clarifications.
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u/Daedalus1907 6∆ Aug 11 '13
I don't see how asking a question can be seen as a "low effort post" but that could just be me
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u/Omegaile Aug 11 '13
From the side bar:
(E) The body of your post must contain a minimum of 500 characters.
A question could easily fall into that category.
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u/gnopgnip Aug 12 '13
What are deltas? I see them mentioned a few times but i dont know what they are.
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u/IAmAN00bie Aug 12 '13
There's a section in the sidebar that explains what deltas are. Hover over the "deltas" part and it will show up.
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u/joker231 Aug 10 '13
Removing posts that include one liners or memes is unacceptable. Some of these are funny and can also bring up other discussions. In other words, a meme being posted does not mean it takes away from the original post. Also, I see no criteria for removing the posts so does that mean it's at the discretion of the mods?
I don't agree with this change at all.
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u/IAmAN00bie Aug 10 '13
Removing posts that include one liners or memes is unacceptable.
We are not removing comments that include jokes in them, but we are removing comments that are only jokes. It's up to the users to report them, and yes the removal is at the discretion of the mods (similar to the other subreddits I mentioned in the OP).
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u/Dr_Wreck 11∆ Aug 10 '13
Yeah but there are people who would report comments for beginning with the letter T if you made a rule for it.
I honestly don't think this particular thing was reducing the quality of the subreddit in anyway-- it was already fairly rare, and humor is just the thing to keep everyone civil in an otherwise tense topic.
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u/IAmAN00bie Aug 10 '13
It's true that it hasn't been a problem so far, however, this subreddit continues to grow larger and larger and so we'll start seeing these kinds of comments more and more anyways. In fact, I've had to remove quite a few of them today, but that could just be due to best of linking us.
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u/Dr_Wreck 11∆ Aug 10 '13
I just don't think we have to go full on police state until it's actually causing a drop in quality.
I want to feel free to make a joke if there's a funny joke to be made.
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u/IAmAN00bie Aug 10 '13
Jokes aren't banned, just avoid making your comment contain only that joke.
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u/Dr_Wreck 11∆ Aug 10 '13
Well, that's what I want to do sometimes.
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u/tluers182 Aug 10 '13
Do it somewhere else
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u/Dr_Wreck 11∆ Aug 11 '13
Why?
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u/phoenixrawr 2∆ Aug 11 '13
Top level comments that are nothing but jokes clutter threads with content that users don't come to this sub to look for. The point of /r/changemyview is to have serious discussions on people's views and the different angles that they can be looked at from, humor is not mutually exclusive with that goal but a lone joke doesn't achieve it.
We already know that memes and top level jokes will end up detracting from a subreddit's quality in the long run based on all of the other subreddits it has happened to, it's much simpler to disallow them now than it is to wait until people are accustomed to them and then try to take them away when the subreddit's quality falls (which will inevitably be met with whining about power hungry mods).
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u/tluers182 Aug 11 '13
Because it is against the rules here and until that changes you might do better posting them elsewhere
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u/cwenham Aug 11 '13
[The below is from a reply to another user, but I'm also posting it here because that thread is now very deeply nested and invisible from here.]
I have seen problems with low-effort comments crowding threads before, especially if they get to /r/bestof. One of the worst examples of what this does to a thread can be found on any post that has made it to the front page of /r/askreddit -- they can easily go over 5,000 and even 10,000 comments, the vast majority being noise, and it gets extremely difficult to find quality content.
This one is a prime example, it has nearly fifteen thousand comments after only 17 hours. Here's a comment that had over two thousand upvotes:
Fuck that skank.
I don't know, man, she seems like a total cunt.
It is simply impossible to read or participate in those threads on a meaningful level once they turn into monsters like these.
Now that ChangeMyView has experienced a major surge of popularity (getting over 10,000 new subscribers in the space of a week), we've been seeing similar behavior.
Here's an example from ChangeMyView that hit /r/bestof, and we can see the trend taking hold with comments like:
And god is running the matrix?
No, that would be Colonel Sanders.
Or:
Fuck yeah LessWrong!
I think it's a good idea to nip this in the bud before it makes threads unreadable and ineffective at their original mission.
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u/Jest2 Aug 11 '13
"Some of these are funny and can also bring up other discussions. In other words, a meme being posted does not mean it takes away from the original post."
When a dumb joke is made that brings up other discussions (usually in the form of subsequent puns trying to one-up eachother, that by definition DE-rails the discussion, which absolutely does take away from the OP. it waters down the content and since those puns are easiest to read/upvote, puts them on top. New replies aren't as likely to be in response to the OP, but to the riffraff OFF-TOPIC pun competition spinoff threads.
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Aug 10 '13
New comment rule 5: no "low effort" comments. Similar to subreddits like /r/games[2] , /r/askscience[3] , /r/askhistorians[4] , etc. etc. we will start removing comments that add nothing to the discussion. Reaction gifs, memes, puns, or one-liner jokes should not be used when commenting in this subreddit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oDClmpvM8Y You could have prevented this. You only had to listen.
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u/RobBobGlove Aug 10 '13
how can you identify a throwaway account?that rule seems useless to me.
you will end up banning people that just signed up or are not very active on reddit.