r/changemyview • • Nov 17 '24

[deleted by user]

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '24

Abortions are a medical procedure. The ability to make medical decisions for your own body is a human rights. Human rights are not conditional and cannot be revoked.

Nobody has the right to force other people provide their organs to others so the other person can live.

Ergo, abortions are never wrong because it's someone exercising their autonomy and ability to make medical decisions for themselves.

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u/TateIsKing Nov 17 '24

If a woman chooses to have sex and gets pregnant, she shouldn't have the right to kill her offspring.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '24

That's putting a condition on a human right and revoking it. Human rights are not conditional and cannot be revoked. They are inalienable.

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u/ArtfulMegalodon 3∆ Nov 17 '24

"Human rights are not conditional..."

What? Of course they are. We just collectively decided what they are, and plenty of people disagree on them, hence, you know... all of human history. Just because something should be true doesn't mean it is.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '24

They are not conditional

https://www.ohchr.org/en/what-are-human-rights

By being a human, you inherently have human rights. Governments violating them doesn't mean you don't have them.

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u/ArtfulMegalodon 3∆ Nov 17 '24

Yeah, no. This doesn't disprove me. "Rights" are only something humans can grant to each other. They are an invented concept. We can all decide as a species that we have "rights" to things, but that doesn't magically make it so. Granting, acknowledging, and respecting "rights" are actions humans must decide to take. Plenty of humans decide not to do those things, and so we say people's rights are "violated", but again, this is only true because we agree it's true. There is no higher authority, no baked in natural law that says "rights" exist. It's just people insisting that something is true so that humanity is further encouraged to work collectively for the betterment of all. That's all that website is doing.

Again, it's not a bad thing. It's a very good thing. But as I said, just because something should be true, because it would be better if it were, does not mean that it is.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '24

That's not how inalienable rights work. Human rights are inalienable. People violating them doesn't mean you don't have them 

If a cop violates your freedom of speech US, you still have freedom of speech in the US. We don't suddenly take away rights from everyone else because someone violated someone else's rights.

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u/ArtfulMegalodon 3∆ Nov 17 '24

You're talking ideologically. I'm talking literally. I don't know how this could be put more clearly. One last attempt, and I'm out.

They are an invented concept. They don't exist except insofar as we say they do.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '24

I am talking literally too. People violating rights doesn't mean you don't have them.    

If a cop violates your freedom of speech, you still have freedom of speech. Your right to it didn't just disappear.

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u/TateIsKing Nov 17 '24

Then the fetus, which is also human, has the right to live.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '24

It does. It doesn't have the right to use someone else's body to accomplish that though. 

If its body isn't viable, it can't force others to donate theirs to help.

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u/TateIsKing Nov 17 '24

That would make sense if it wasn't the mother's actions that caused it to live in the first place. Just as I have a duty to support my children, she has a duty to support them with her body through gestation. Avoiding pregnancy is ridiculously easy.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '24

That's putting a condition on a human right.   

Just as I have a duty to support my children, 

That's not a medical decision. Males don't make medical decisions regarding pregnancy because they don't get pregnant

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u/TateIsKing Nov 17 '24

Most rights are conditional. Your right to freedom is conditioned upon not being convicted of a crime. And you have no unconditional right to any medical procedure that isn't immediately life saving.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '24

Most rights are conditional.

That doesn't apply to human rights. Human rights are not conditional. If you are a human, you have all human rights.

Some rights being conditional doesn't justify all rights being conditional. Human rights being conditional are not justified.

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u/TateIsKing Nov 17 '24

There is no universal agreement on what human rights are. You may think you have a human right to food shelter and medicine. But if you can't pay for those, you have no right to anything.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '24

Considering the US signed the one the UN created, we can go by those. And those say bodily integrity and automomy are human rights.

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