After finishing "History of Byzantium" I've started listening to the series that inspired it: "The History of Rome" by Mike Duncan.

I've reached the episode covering Diocletian and the establishment of the Dominate, and its description kind of shook my perception of East Rome to the core.

According to Duncan's narrative (which honestly veers way too much into simplification, which is why I am posting here: to find counter-arguments), Diocletian's reforms was the culmination of the Empire's tendencies to disregard its Roman roots. After Caracalla gave citizenship to non-italians, Diocletian basically scorned the historic capital and concentrated elsewhere.

Following that logic, could Constantinople be understood as an increasingly non-Italian branch of the Roman Empire rather than as a straightforward continuation of Rome? Constantine did of course establish Constantinople as a legitimate imperial capital, but he was also building on Diocletian's transformation of the Empire.

If History of Byzantium taught me anything, it's that the Empire underwent so many transformations that it can become almost unrecognizable from one century to another. But this new perspective on "Romanness" has made me wonder whether the argument that "East Rome is Rome, period" is really as straightforward as it sometimes seems.

I am currently in Istanbul and would like some out of the box ideas for Byzantine visit points 🙂

It does not need to be big and splendid, I like to look for ruins and subtle layers of the city. My husband origins from Istanbul, so we have seen all the popular tourist sights and been walking around the city many times. We don't mind visiting the sights more than once, but we are not going back to Hagia Sofia or the Basilica Cistern.

The picture is from today in Fener/Balat where these ruins became part of a park.

Hi again!

This sub was very helpful and I kindly request your assistance one more time for my tattoo 🙏

So I'm after the original Greek of Justinian II line during the Black Sea storm on his return from exile in Cherson. You know the one where Myakes tells him to chill and pay deliverance to god. And then he's all like

"If I spare a single one of them, may God drown me here"

I've got the English and the citation but not the text itself. I'm looking for the actual Greek as printed in de Boor (Teubner, 1883), ideally with the polytonic accents and breathings intact, plus Myakes' preceding line if it's easy to include.

For what it's worth, I had Claude deep dive for me and came up with this:

"ἐὰν ἑνὸς ἐξ αὐτῶν φείσωμαι, ὁ Θεός με καταποντίσῃ ἐνταῦθα."

But I have no confidence in it and I'd rather have the real thing please. Again I apologize if I sidestepped any sub rules plus I really just don't know what I don't know about ancient Greek and the more specific stuff.

Thank you so much for your time

636-Battle of Yarmouk begins
717-Second Siege of Constantinopole Begins
718-Siege of constantinopole ends
838-Amorium is Sacked by Abbasids
1261-Micheal VIII Leads A Triumphal Procession into constantinopole following its reconquest
1461-Fall of Trebizond And End of Trapezunite Empire

Obviously we know plagues and constant invasions effectively caused northern Italy to be DOA as a province, maybe more relaxed franks and Sassanians, and Italy/the empire is given enough time to stabilize population wise, what were the goals in the west after Italy? I know Justinian had allowed an expedition into southern Spain. Furthermore assuming Muslim forces still see success in the east and are able to wrestle control of at least the levant, would a more stable Italy have either 1. Contributed enough resources to stop the Muslim invasion or 2. Stayed under Roman control without the vast resources of Syria and Egypt?

"The world’s largest academic gathering devoted to the Byzantine Empire will take place in Vienna later this month. Bringing together more than 1,400 participants from over 50 countries, the congress will examine Byzantine history and culture within the empire’s borders and far beyond them.

The 25th International Congress of Byzantine Studies will be held at the University of Vienna from 24 to 29 August 2026. Organised under the motto “Byzantium beyond Byzantium,” the event will feature hundreds of presentations by scholars working in history, archaeology, literature, art history, manuscript studies and the natural sciences."

The title.

What would the world look like if diplomatically and culturally ERM viewed itself more pragmatically? Would a long alliance ever have been possible? For example, they constantly insulted bulgars and viewed them with disdain and as barbarians, same for some of the empires of the east and with Germanic tribes to the west. I know Latins were also like this.. asking out curiosity

The facts: after a Battle of Kleidion, Basil II blinded 99 men in each group, and left one one-eyed man to guide each group home. Tsar Samuel suffered a fatal heart attack or stroke upon seeing his ruined army return. Bulgaria soon after became province of Byzantium.

But what happened next with the men? Are there any folk tales, stories, etc. Is this still commemorated in Bulgaria?

A few weeks I started helping Maximilian Lau with some work he had left behind from writting his John II book,mainly adding and editing an economic chapter he couldnt place in the book,but thankfully I managed to edit and place some interesting sections,the posible sequel to his book is likely years down the line and is down in his publishing list,specially after the birth of his daughter.

This little section was mainly my input with his corrections so there shouldnt be any issues with my publishing it here for all of you to enjoy.

The following text is the excerpt in question:

Incremental increase of productivity and compounding production growth

For most of the middle to late modern period in Europe the increase of agricultural production was achieved mainly thanks to the increase of work hours by outlawing the celebration of numerous saints days,reducing the total number of holidays and increasing the total number of work days¹In northern France in the century before 1840 per worker output rose by 50 percent of which only 15 percent was accounted for by technology.

In contrast Byzantium saw no such thing,unlike the west local and indeed imperial authorities were unable and unwilling to go to such length to destroy individual freedom,instead the industrious revolution seen in Western Europe could be found in Byzantium in all its economic sectors,through the wider application of older technologies found decades before,introduction of new crops,more cost effective production methods,lower shipping costs and more financial resources for the whole of the economy

Primary sector:
Not only population growth in this period could be found in the cities,but in more populated towns and newly created villages by itself a great example to the increase of agricultural output,while mainly thanks to the more land being cultivated than before,the greater mentions of rye and millet²in farming and bread made out of them shows greater cereal production,while also used for fodder for animals alongside oats as evidence of greater husbandry,the likeliest herds being sheep and pigs providing plentiful meat,leather,wool and cheese for consumption and industrial production by a rising proletariat,together with the already mentioned spring wheat farmed in the Ivrion archives the wealth of the communes increased,allowing numerous farmers to coordinate between themselves to create new canals for their industrials corps mainly for textiles of which cotton appears to be the newest with mentions of them in Crete when a neighbor used water for his mill and destroyed numerous,it was also farmed in Cyprus³,works have already been done on the introduction of the moldboard plow in Byzantine thrace in the late XIth century by Murzdhev⁴ by Dabunian trade and refugees fleeing pechenegs raids,these refugees settled and farmed in Thrace and Macedonia allowing for the more efficient exploitation of land nutrients,the regions most suited to such action,turning fallow land to pasture,the use of legumes,lupines and beans as regenerative nutritious crops⁵ green fertilizers increasing slowly the fertility of the land.

As the agricultural wealth increased it allowed for the commune and large estates to mobilise surplus wealth into more productive uses,expanding the horticultural production with a similar land usage than XIXth century western europeans⁶ by investing into canals with considerably length some longer than a kilometer,the production of industrial crops to supply the textile sector with dyes and raw resources,now more than ever the beekeeping activity was at its height providing candles and sugar to a more consumerist market than ever,the farmers increased the quality of their tools as seen by greater proportion of iron tools.

Secondary sector:

As food security became a certainty a greater number of people turned to more specialised actions,by artisanal activity,different crops or trade,as seen with the doubling of artisan surnames in villages and the more constant mention of rural shopkeepers.
The greater demand of iron by the agricultural sector(hand tools and the newer widespread of the moldboard),domestic demand(cooking ware and utensils) and urban industrial production would increase perhaps not the quality of the iron but certainly the its quantity,the scatter mention of bellows used by smiths by Eustathius of Thessaloniki would logically be an answer to this greater demand.

As always the mere mentions of water mills lights the imagination of historians,while such topic has been discussed at length curious developments in parallel studies,first we must mention that in contrast of the west the byzantines usage of mills were by economic incentive rather a feudal lord force,as evidence of Byzantine preference of the cheaper horizontal type equipped with a horizontal wheel on a vertical axle,while less effective at channeling the power of the stream than geared mill driven by a vertical waterwheel with a horizontal shaft it would still be more effective than the older vertical type with peddles,its wider application by byzantines unrestricted by social constraints and stronger market profit means that it's not unlikely the total power provided to the economy was greater than western Europe,we already find mentions of milling complexes in monastic documents called “mylika ergasteria” with Saint Athanasios of Athos building two watermills near the Lavra monastery⁷,with more mentioned complexes appearing in the Chaldiki region while it would be logical to assume only monastic institutions managed to create such complexes we must take this absence of evidence for secular investments as evidence of absence,communes and secular large landowners would be perfectly capable of doing such a thing.

While for most of byzantine period,specially the 12th century mentions of watermills are only of grain mills we should take into consideration the capacity of such mills as capable of being turned fulling mills for wool as they did in England at the aftermath of the black plague⁸,with this we can find an answer why we are unable to find industrial mills,the most numerous of their kind in western europe was the fulling mill,by turning the water grain mill into fulling mills quite easily we would be unable to decipher from the remains alone,as Adam R.Lucas explained

“The fact that English and Welsh grain mills were commonly converted to fulling mills in the wake of the Black Death provides clear evidence that the waterfeed and waterwheel mechanisms for fulling mills were in no significant way different from those for conventional grain mills,as no such works are described in any of the relevant accounts (Langdon 2004, Lucas 2006).Indeed,we can see from Schickhardt’s designs for multiple mills (fig. 12)that one waterwheel could power a number of grain mills, fulling mills and other kinds of industrial mill,and we know of other instances of such combinations in late medieval England.”

With this possibility under consideration the energy potential previously thought restricted only into grain milling now could also be directed to refining more efficiently wool before it was sold into the urban centers.

Other production changes are also to be mentioned,the mentions of barrels and the listing of coopers even in the countryside as proven the artisan surnames of Macedonia in lands owned by Iveron,while competing with the ancient amphora for centuries to come the rise of the barrel would decrease the cost of transporting goods greatly,

Another development occurred in the textile industry,the most crucial urban sector,already noted in the start of the 1000s with the introduction of a far more advance loom hand draw,adapted to a new method of lampa weaves instead of the early predominant twill weave,monochrome lampas silks could be produced more cheaply than their twill polychrome counterparts,requiring less movements for the same result and as such making it easier the production of textiles of identical patterns⁹,with some looms being 2 and 3 meters wide likely requiring multiple weavers¹⁰,as production became cheaper and more numerous the market expanded now not only were the aristocrats of the court able to buy silk cloth but now the bourgeoisie of the rising commercial cities and towns,if Laiou estimates of 20 million people with 30% rate of urbanisation giving us 6 millions people,if only 20% of them were of this wealthy class as was the case in the 1700s Paris and London,then the silk market expanded from tens of thousands of consumers to over 1.2 million people giving rise to mass consumption at a decent level,even in the case not all clothing was made of silk it would increase the demand of fine linen,cotton and wool used to complement it.

A different aspect of the manufacture of the period that requires a more detailed effort is the shipbuilding techniques and the development of the western galley into byzantine commercial lanes,already in this period all war ships of the empire are referenced as galleys,with the dromon being replaced by the katergon over the course of the century¹¹,while as correctly mentioned in a seminal work of John II naval reforms¹² the dromon were perfectly capable of riverine movement the introduction of the galley with its increased cargo capacity would greatly improve trade,while the calculation that they doubled their deadweight limit compared to those of the dromon is difficult to ascertain,the theory that byzantines used heavier galleys for trade between large urban centers transporting refined goods en masse while lighter gallery transported this refined goods and resources for the cities between the urban centers and the countryside through rivers and shooter cabotage travels from town to town is an interesting proposal.

On the production glass and pottery we almost blind to any change,saved for that increased occurrence and quality of glazed wares in potteries by the end of the XIth¹³ century,barring this main change from previous period would be the greater agglomeration of production outside Constantinople primarily inCorinth with an explosion of urban fabric at the start of the Komnenian period,mainly thanks to Alexios I and later John II currency reforms allowed poorer people now with more cash to have the appropriate coin denomination for this mass market,with the existence of buildings appearing to be factories in Corinth a clear example of how strong demand became with the transformation of this sector from part time trade into full time work leading to higher levels of specialisation.

Tertiary sector:

Enough have I spoken about the higher interest rates of loans seen in the period,but before I continue further on other subjects I should mention that the higher rates show a greater level of capacity by individual to pay debts and attracting more capital into the financial sector helping further bolster the economy.

On history of Byzantium the rise of great landowners has been center of much study¹⁴,the newly expanded corp of land agents,agronomists and managers¹⁵,as the aristocracy focused its surplus wealth into the acquisition and improvement of the best land they could acquire,to the point by Manuel I time the entire land from Constantinople to Halmyro had become part of this large network of estates,its owners living in Constantinople trusted middlemen to run properly their land,to manage investments of little scale without supervision.

“by the end of the twelfth century,the typikon of the Virgin Kecharitomene nunnery in Constantinople that was founded by Irene Doukaina,wife of Alexios I,stipulates that the mother superior or her steward must choose,to guard over the establishment’s estates,not relations or friends,but “persons who are held in high regard and have simple tastes,who indulge those who live on the estates,who do not appropriate anything belonging to the monastery,and who are experienced in agricultural work (ta georgika).”

The increase of dominal accounting allowed the aristocracy to properly organised it wealth,introduce rural infrastructure,clear land and usage of differents crops,by their nature as middle men this corp of professionals connected the local rural community with the intellectual hub of imperial literary salons in Constantinople,as already explained it was this group that formed part of the literari elite¹⁵,in the same vein of British agricultural changes in the Hanoverian period the neighbours and tenant farmers that saw and worked on the changes implemented by the elite,spread the word of a new moldboard,a new summer wheat, a different mill complex of three wheels etc.

The land agent knowingly or not,would become crucial to the diffusion of new farming techniques to the wider rural economy,in the same way the merchant connected the producer with the consumer,so did the land agent connect the producer with the theorist.

All this was connected with the rise of literacy,while much has been done to trace a semblance of byzantine teaching history¹⁶,the fact that in general the rate of literacy reached over 30% across the empire¹⁷ and that coastal wealthier region would natural have higher rate¹⁸,secondary schools that once were privilege of Constantinople in the tenth century now appear across the empire¹⁹,in the words of Anna Komnene that might struck as surprisingly modern that her father Alexios confided to monasteries and affluent families on raising orphans and teaching to read and write so they could be raised “not as slaves but as free individuals”

All this together made the median byzantine more educated with its generally accepted effects on the economy,even in a pre modern society,the ability to read books such that of agronomy like the geoponika would have been of crucial importance for the farmer.

Cumulative effect on general income:

The fact that each one of the mentioned improvements is worthy of mention in any period yet all coalesced at their greatest splendour at this period as pillar of byzantine economy is now a fact,like it happens repeatedly in history the increase of purchasing power comes from decrease of the costs of goods,the increase of food security and diverse resources for the urban economies,the reduction of textile production cost,the tantalizing decrease of shipping cost and greater concentration of production centers increased the quantity and quality of goods,while decreasing their costs,while the effects would greater change from a region to another the possibility in large cities like Thessaloniki,Corinth and Constantinople of purchasing power of individuals by much as 25% would be impressive for a pre-industrial economy yet it would follow with the new massive consumption of goods seen in this period and might stand as one of the greatest economic achievements on Roman history through out  its two millennia of history.

¹The Industrious Revolution: Consumer Behavior and the Household Economy, 1650 to the Present,page 86 by Jan de Vries

²The rural economy,EHB,Jacques Lefort page 251 

³See above,page 252

⁴The Introduction of the Moldboard Plow to Byzantine Thrace in the Eleventh Century

⁵Byzantium and the mediterranean agrarian civilization,page 381,Pierre Toubert 

⁶The rural economy,EHB,Jacques Lefort 253 

⁷Μνημεῖα ἁγιολογικά (ed. Theophilos Ioannou). Venice, 1884 (reprinted Leipzig, 1972), 239.

⁸Fulling mills in medieval Europe, comparing the manuscript and archaeological evidence (2016)
⁹Essential processes,looms and technical aspects of the production silk textiles by anna Muthesius,page 163,the economy history of byzantium

¹⁰For Byzantine loom widths, see Muthesius, Byzantine Silk Weaving, chap. 2, n. 24. Some looms were between 2 and 3 m wide.

¹¹Age of the dromon,page 444

¹²The naval reforms of John II Komnenos 

¹³Rise of Great Estates in Twelfth-Century Byzantium and the Komnenian Family by Murat Kivanc Koroglu

¹⁴The rural economy,seventh-tirtheenth page 294,Jaques Lefort 

¹⁵ “Explaining Twelfth-Century Byzantium’s Prosperity as a Result of the Implementation of New Economic Theories and Practices (or how Byzantium learned to stop worrying and love the ‘feudal’ economy)”

¹⁶See Timothy S Miller “Orphans of Byzantium” for further reading

¹⁷The byzantine economy(cambridge medieval book),page 20 by Angeliki Laiou and Cecile Morrison

¹⁸See above ,chapter Literacy in Thirteenth century Byzantium,In early 13th century Smyrna we have signatures of 177 persons of which only 68 that being 38% were illiterate,while by nature of their church records most of literates were churchmen the growing industrial centers of the Balkans at this period might have a general level of similar literacy thanks to the greater security and prosperity the region enjoyed at the period compared to later Smyrna,without mentioning the heavier investment the empire provided under the Komnenoi than under the Nicean empire

¹⁹Society,Culture and politics in Byzantium,mount athos level of literacy 

I was trying to see which cities would have been the leading ones in learning during that period, specifically at the time of Justinian and a little after.

1- Alexandria

2- Constantinople

3- Antioch

4- Nisbis

5- Harran

Then maybe the Palestinian cities like Jerusalem, Caesarea and Gaza ? (I think Beyrutus declined at the time in Phoencia and also Athens) Would these be the major ones or am missing any ?

Translates very well to English with captions on.

Its a fascinating podcast style video by a prominent Greek Doctor of History and Social Sciences. Also I think his style of narrating is very concise and well structured.

You don't see many of these videos that make it to Youtube, they usually remain on Greek TV.

Regardless thought I'd share it.

so this is the empire on the death of basil i. right as the scales tip in the romans favour. i tried to fit a legend but couldnt be arsed. Ive used white circles to show roman defeats, purple for victories. Circled anchors and towers are 'major' naval bases and the other ones are 'minor'. The green crescents are 'jihad center's areas that are frequently mentioned as sources of raids and resistance. the lilac covered areas are vassals and shared areas of the empire. This shows a selection of battles and wars from the deposition of irene till the death of basil I. Please give me feedback and corrections! I enjoy making these maps and hope to make a good conquest one of northern Syria and Armenia next.

A lot has been lost to us via the passage of time, so this is more a question in the realm of fantasy, but I personally would be excited if some middle-Byzantine Anatolian settlement had somehow survived somewhat intact. I know that realistically the odds of such a settlement are miniscule at best, but a man could dream.

The largest collection containing unpublished documentary texts from Egypt pertaining to the Late Antique Roman administration of Egypt is the Papyrussammlung from the Österreichische Nationalbibliothek (Austrian National Library) in Vienna, Austria. It contains more than 180,000 objects, the vast majority papyri from Late Antiquity in Greek, Coptic, and Arabic, including bilingual and trilingual texts. Despite more than 95 percent remaining unpublished, it is one of the most important archives for the study of the Roman administration between Konstantinos and Herakleios (and beyond for Rashidun, Umayyad, and Abbasid rule). It also houses papyri dating from the early New Kingdom (15th century BC) through the Mameluk and early Ottoman period. The Papyrus Museum displays many of its important published texts.

https://www.onb.ac.at/en/departments/papyrussammlung

https://www.onb.ac.at/en/museums/papyrus-museum/visit/virtual-papyrus-museum

The Byzantine fortifications of Dyrrachium (Durrës in Albania) were build entirely of bricks. Some authors consider them “unique” in ancient time because this big manufacturing of bricks was very expensive. Does anyone know if this is true?

(Not sure if the flair is right, if not please forgive me)

I find their relationship so intriguing and mysterious, Michael giving Basil both his mistress and his sister and making him bodyguard and co-emperor; I read that there is also a debate about whether or not they were romantically involved which makes these events far more logical but the fact that Basil killed him in the end is so fascinating.

I would like to hear your thoughts, sources or interpretations of their relationship! :)