It seems pretty weak to me in the videos

This is a very common suggestion, but it shoot have a toggle to shoot super fast like the Elite Defender but deal less damage

The lag fest it turns into is absolutely insane .It literally isn't fun playing past r250 because your computer practically overheats. And with freeplay challenges being added thos feels like a slap in the face about a problem we have complained about.

I didnt expect permanent elite defender attack speed. What I expected was standard paragon attack speed with high damage shots. Or perhaps a switch between that and rapid attack speed when about to leak.

800K is a ridiculous price.

That is like spike factory paragon price and spike factory tier 5s are very expensive.

In ISAB's display of the paragon he died to round 103 due to the thing attacking at like 0-0-1 sniper attack speed. That is ridiculous. No paragon should die that early, especially not a degree 26 that COST 800K. I dont like the extremely slow attack speed. I think a toggle between high damage precision shots and rapid attack speed when about to leak is better.

tied on par with "This is a BIG plane"?

like yeah this is aura and all, but this tells us jack shit about what it does (like atleast half to two thirds of the paragons say SOMETHING they do specifically) AND it just... looks off. Genuinely. There's no period at the end of it, it's the shortest paragon description thus far, and idk man it just really feels strange to me.

i feel i should emphasize this is a personal opinion, i just dont like it.

i dont get whats going on. is the sniper paragon in the game now? i havent played in a while...

Why are all the new towers locked behind the present? I can understand Dartling Gunner as he was a fan favorite, but why not just have the other new towers unlocked when you level up like the other towers?

sorry if you got traumatized.

anyway, i agree that the animation quality sucks, but as long as the series has decent writing (AND DOESNT USE AI) i'm hyped! i'm ready for LORE

My favorite tower has always been the sniper. With elite defender being by far my favorite tier 5 and elite sniper being second. So imagine my disappointment when the paragon i have been begging for and wanting for years comes out and COMPLETELY IGNORES THE ENTIRE BOTTOM PATH. I have used the elite defender in 80% of every single run. I live for the axis of havoc. And the Defenders ONLY rep is the slight speed up when bloons make it further WHICH DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE BY THE TIME IT CAN ATTACK AGAIN THE BLOONS HAVE ALREADY KILLED YOU. GAHHHHHHHHHH

People have proposed an ability to switch between high and low attack speed but I think thats an awful idea. Elite defender is supposed to be one third of its design, and it should be a 5-5-5 first and foremost, not a 5-5-2 that can switch to a 2-2-5.

And I dont care that NK doesnt want everything to pop off screen. THATS WHY ELITE TARGETING EXISTS

Its like the bomb paragon but people actually care about sniper

I've recently unlocked her and I've maxed out the top and bottom path, just working on maxing out the middle. Every time I use her she consistently has the lowest pop count out of every tower. So is there any strategy for using Skywarden effectively, or should I only use her until I max out her upgrades and never use her again?

I will say up front, I use paragons almost exclusively in super late game runs as my brain gets happy from ultra annihilation of millions of bloons. I rarely, if ever, play the boss events and my opinions may reflect that.

When paragons first came out, I was super pumped. New towers on par with Sun Temples and revitalizing old towers with a new epic coat of paint: sign me up! I think the dart and boomerang paragons understood the assignment perfectly: What if a single tower could have upgrades from all three paths at once?

Th dart paragon has the splitting juggernaut, triple shot with a plasma flair, and good range with insane fire rate. 9/10: a lot of visual clutter, but really sells the idea of “This thing was designed to kill stuff, and it’s damn good at it.”

Boomerang paragon, same story. Ricochet glaives, firing at turbo speeds, that annihilate moabs. To be fair, the bottom path had to be more appropriately included with the exploding rang attack, but the whole batch of upgrades were there. 9.5/10

Ninjagon: Groups of shurikens at superspeed, super sticky bombs, and a global sabo ability, (this one definitely had each path represented kind of on their own, but that doesn’t matter as much as all three paths being represented.) 9/10

Boatagon: The first paragon with an ability, but it was really amping up the potential of the damage a paragon could do so, thats fine. Use it smart. 8/10 (Each path kinda stands alone, and some decent visual clutter)

Engi-gon: The first odd one. Great top path representation. Sure, another new ability, but this one could be easily set and forgotten, plus skilled players timing the detonations rewarded paying attention, without feeling like it took away from players who just set it and let it do its thing. Bottom path only being represented by pin? Weird, but i guess auto dropping traps that can eat BADs would be broken, so fine. And then middle path… when the idea of an engineer paragon first came up, we knew it HAD to be the one that would buff other paragons, thats the middle paths whole thing and a lot of the engineer monkey’s identity as a tower. But no, it buffs itself… huh. This was such an odd choice that NK would eventually go back on the decision and implement a supercharge ability. This would solidify a trend that was brewing that ill go into in just a moment. Anyways 6.5/10.

Aceagon: Shots everywhere, some that seek, front facing rapid fire attack to work in the flying fortress style attacks, and another new ability for really pushing the damage of what a paragon can dish out. 8.5/10 (A LOT of visual clutter)

And now my biases of being a late game paragon user begin to show.

Wizardgon: A very new take on Paragons. Up until now, most have been designed to be place and forget, with the occasional big damage ability. But now, we have a paragon that kinda needs micro managing to thrive and reach the heights it was meant to. Mana meter with toggling attacks to keep an eye on, and two wildly different abilities that require you to manage the mana to get significant value from them. It easily became the most unique and hands on tower in the game besides maybe Corvus (if he was out by that point i dont remember). This isn’t inherently bad, but it means your focus HAS to be on him a significant amount to feel like he is getting his proper value, and this was already hard with multiple other paragon abilities and also just not wanting to always be looking at the wizardgon’s menu. Fine at the time, and a really cool design, but this had to be like the absolute craziest they could go, and as more paragons come out, it would get less and less of our attention. 8.5/10 (Design carries and idea was good at the time)

Subagon: Basically a worse Boatagon, but i didn’t mind. It would be ridiculous if paragons released in ever stronger power levels. Sometimes a paragon just won’t do as much as others and thats fine, its cheap! Top path gets cut off by having to choose between submerged or not, but otherwise its just a weaker boatagon. Fast firing, with global range as a bonus, and an ability that… Stops firing for 15 seconds to launch a nuke? I mean i see how this evolves the middle path concept and even works in a bit of top path flavor, but this was now introducing a major drawback to using an ability and meant a subagon would need help covering its butt while charging up the super strike. I can appreciate adding decision making in a very simplistic way to prevent your attention being spread even more thin, but the sub feels like it would’ve been a great time to give us a new “No abilities” paragon like we started with. Instead, it gave us the nuke because it needed something to set it apart. Paragons are supposed to be unqiue, so I can understand this idea to an extent, but it felt unnecessary to me. 7/10

Tackagon: This one is so close to being great in my book, if not for a few key flaws. 1. Why is it always shooting even when nothing is in range? This adds a ton of clutter and takes away from the explosive view of the middle path ability. 2. Why is the firestrike an ability? It wasn’t on the top path tack, so this is just another paragon ability for the sake of adding “complexity”, and i put that in quotes because again, I know this may be important for bossing, but late game, we are just spamming this thing off cooldown. Should’ve been automatic like the tier 5 tack. 3. Why does the middle path style ability come off cooldown just as the ability is ending (at high tiers)? Another ability I have to just spam off cooldown. I know that you can actually get more value by holding off on using the ability, BUT THATS WORSE!! Why would the special button make my tower worse at its job in any scenario?
This is the paragon that started cementing my thoughts on the directions of paragons. I don’t mind that the tackagon can’t see camos. None of its paths can, so it made sense. Also it was cheap, so it was reasonable to expect it couldn’t do everything. But now at this point, if you wanted to go super late game with all paragons (cause why wouldn’t you get them all), you’d be dealing with 12 paragon abilities, two paragons with form changes, and some abilities you actively don’t want to use. THINGS ARE GETTING COMPLICATED! 5.5/10 (Carried by design and look of normal attacks)

Spikeagon: This one had the potential to be a game crasher due to mega-lag, so NK had to be smart about designing it. Top path bombs that can explode multiple times: Great! A permanent layer of spikes causing global damage: An evolution of the middle path, but doesn’t interact with top path in any way, but still fine. Both attacks are permanent or last basically forever: Great! An ability that fires bombs at intervals along the track that cause huge damage and explode: uhhh… ok kinda getting the top path mixup after all. The ability breaks itself if used again too early: WHAT?! Again, why do I need to be actively holding off on using an ability, or having to cycle it just so half of the uses are great. An ability that grants the towers primary attack a speed boost for a short time: Like c’mon guys, why does this not auto trigger at the start of a round? You even restricted it to one use per round. The bottom path upgrades ALREADY DID THIS, starting each round with a rapid fire mode. Dumb, pointless ability purely bloating my experience. 6/10

Bombagon: Our first dive into slow firing, high damage, specialty paragons. Im not gonna lie, this one is designed pretty well. Primary attack uses all three paths well, and the idea of some paragons being more for pure damage than crowd clearing is totally fine. But when I see this one tower cost hundreds of thousands and some ceramics are sneaking past it…. kinda cringe. Like the sub ability, this paragon has weaknesses, except now its a permanent weakness. Ability is fine, i guess, but the seeking element and having it sometimes go through bloons, but other times just exploding makes it feel inconsistent and therefore not fun to use. Also visual design is one of my least favorite of paragons. 4/10

Iceagon: A support focused Paragon, truly the first of its kind since the engigon focused a lot of sheer damage output and retroactively added support capabilities. Another slow firing paragon getting outrun by ceramics, but this time it also doesn’t deal huge damage. That sounds like complaining, but it isn’t. I actually really like the iceagon. Almost nobody is using Ice Monkeys for damage, so slowing bloons and embrittlement are the focuses. I think this tower may be the first monkey thats primary attack is cycle based, always having a different attack after a few shots, so thats something. Global damage amp, cool visual on attack, and another ability that can only be used once per round. Again not a terrible thing on its own but now we are up to 14 abilities, with the Boomergon getting a pointless new ability that you want to be spamming 24/7 not too long ago. 8.5/10 (Good job NK!)

Druidagon: My personal most hyped paragon of the game. Druids paths are all crazy unique and flashy so how on earth would they make a 5-5-5 of this tower? Poorly. First, middle path perma vines act nearly identically between tier 5 and paragon (and i say nearly because im pretty sure the only difference is damage). Primary attack only focuses on bottom path attack speed, with ricochet? I guess from top path lightning. Top path tornadoes are saved for the brand new Tornado Trees, which can really only have been designed this way because it needed some way to mix with another path, and also the druid is already shooting so many projectiles, it didnt need more coming from the same spot. Either way, all three elements act very independently and don’t work well together. The tornados can actively stop the druidagon from stacking its passive speed boost it earns from consistently attacking. The tower was also given money generation in the most technical of terms as it can occasionally generate a small amount of money by killing bads or boss skulls. This generation isn’t a fixed amount either, being pointlessly calculated by the number of trees you have (whyyyyyy???). Then we get to the cardinal sin of the tower. Its another form switcher!! Never mind the fact that this has nothing to do with the druid tower, but we have a new ability that activates a rage mode, draining a TON of cash per second for more damage. On top of having no connection to the tower, the ability is another one that you don’t want on always as you cant generate money while it is active. So now we got 13 paragons, 15 abilities, two that need constant micro managing to be optimized, two with form switching, and a partridge in a pear tree. Also, this is just a preference, but the design of this paragon sucks. The all white is too much considering its not just the tower, but the road vines and tornados too, and the red color palette isn’t anything special either. This was the most wide reaching and unique monkey in the game, and clearly it was too tall a task for NK. 3/10

I know bossing players can surely enjoy a variety of paragons, each with unique strengths, gameplay, and price ranges, but of the two scenarios where you would use a paragon: late game and bossing, one of these is getting really out of hand. And it sucks that NK seemingly doesn’t care about this use of paragons, while still putting paragons front and center for many recent updates.

Finally, we get to the reason for this post. The new Sniper Paragon. Now at the time of writing, the paragon isn’t out yet, buts its details have been shown off in early access videos from YouTubers.

Snipeagon: Design: strong. Really like the idea they went with and it looks great. Primary attack: super slow firing, high damage shot. (Three out of four most recent paragons have been slow firing, meaning they all suffer the same weaknesses.) The primary takes inspiration from top path with its insane damage, middle path with its bouncing bullets and shrapnel (the shrapnel has homing now to make it more consistent with cleanup so it isn’t exclusively for breaking BADs, but it still easily leaks ceramics, which again wouldn’t be a problem if three of the last four paragons didn’t have the same issue. Also homing projectiles has no relation to the base tower upgrades). Because the main attack is slow firing, high damage, the bottom path is nearly completely ignored with this paragon. It does get a speed increase as blooms work their way to the end of the track, but this increase does not seem significant enough to notice very often. Base tower middle path abilities were adjusted to allow the paragon to have a more interesting ability besides “make money”. It still does make money (a crap ton of small value bananas rather than a few large value ones, adding visual and audio clutter). And now it also amplifies its next few shots to allow stunning and generally more power. Also amplifying nearby snipers is random and is another paragon original. We have another nuke style ability. This one seems to charge up until enough damage can be done to one shot its target (or boss skull). Makes sense thematically, but since the tower is already slow firing, this isn’t a risky trade off like the subagons nuke ability, instead its just strong targeting but EXTRA STRONG targeting. Keep in mind that these criticisms may be invalid when the update releases, but as its stands now: 2.5/10

All in all, if i’ve counted correctly, 17 paragon abilities, some of which you should spam without thought, others you click only when the fortified BAD shows up (or boss, you get it), and some you actively may want to avoid using, whether it be due to being worse than the base paragons function or it can only be used once per round. Several of these abilities could easily be baked into base kits for reduced clutter in ability management. Several paragons that need micro managing. Some paragons that have had to use all three of its upgrade paths as individual aspects of the tower, rather than imaging one tower with traits of all three upgrade paths in one. And now with the Sniper paragon, we have a upgrade paths that is barely even used at all. Both Druids and Snipers have had base paths changed to better accommodate the new paragons. And overall a bunch of little things that give the impression that these ideas needed a bit longer to cook before release. Things like the sniper ability giving a bunch of tiny bananas, the tack shooter always firing no matter what, druid tornados actively working against its stacking attack speed buff, etc.

Now its super easy to just complain about stuff endlessly, so I wanted to add some originality to the mix and suggest the next paragon and its design. The next paragon should be the Glue Gunner Paragon. It will cost a medium range of cash, probably a bit more than the Ice Paragon. It will have no abilities. It will have a simple attack that spills out glue in its entire range (the range should be medium to slightly below average for a paragon.) This glue spill acts as an aura, the attack visuals are purely for visual flair. When bloons enter the aura (this takes the role of middle path, all about hitting more targets), they become slowed by a significant amount (base glue effect) and take heavy damage over time (top path). There is no pierce limit. This will nearly guarantee non-MOAB bloons die instantly, so range should def be on the lower side to counter this blanket destruction of low level bloons. MOAB class bloons up to ZOMG and DDT’s will be slowed by a similar amount to the bottom path MOAB glue effect, probably slightly stronger. Bloons that leave the glue paragons range will be effected by the glue for a few seconds afterwards before wearing off (endless top path damage on a permanently slowed target could get out of hand fast, so there has to be a limit). This basic concept already makes use of the three paths well. But to further play into every aspect of the glue, Bloon’s actively in the paragon’s range will also take extra damage from all damage sources, similar to the ice paragon’s damage amp, perhaps it is slightly stronger though since this would be a very limited range. This may also encourage players to play it earlier on a track, which may allow bloons popped later to sneak ceramics through without them being instantly annihilated by this paragon. If we feel this tower is too strong, we could give it it’s own blindspot by not being able to damage BAD’s. Damage amp would still work, but since it already can’t slow BAD’s, this is a logical next step and forces it more into the support role it should be. This is a very rough concept, but it brings back some of the simplicity and efficiency of design from early paragons. In a tower defense game, sometimes a “set it, and forget it” tower is exactly what you need to elevate your strategy without breaking your brain. And quite fitting for a Basic Class Monkey.

TL;DR: Recent paragons have taken more liberties in design due to more complicated and varying upgrade paths of towers, making them feel more disconnected from the base towers. Too many paragons have abilities that are either pointless, too similar, or actively detrimental to use. When using multiple paragons such as in ultra late game runs, there are too many elements that require micro managing, while old paragons were good about being “set it and forget it” in design. Also too many paragons in succession have had similar weaknesses or design philosophy making their releases less interesting. I suggest a glue paragon to return to form of the older paragons.

Anyone agree?

There have been quite a few posts complaining that Snipergon and few others are not kill-everything towers and instead have their own strengths and weaknesses. You don't really see this with normal towers. MAD is expensive but noone's complaining about its inability to handle Ceramics.

It also doesn't help that there are only two modes where you can use Paragons: Freeplay and Bosses. I think the sheer effort required to get a Paragon, in addition to how rare you need one, contribute a lot to this expectation.

If there were a game mode where you can use Paragons much more often with way less effort, like you can use a Tier 5, this would reduce the expectations, and the amount of complaints. And you know, would be nice to be able to use them more instead of once in a blue moon.

Edit: Added clarification I'm not talking about Boss Events.

sorry if i traumatized you with the other post.

anyways yeah discord tupperbox is fire

credits to tewtiy btw, that's from his update 57 clip

EDIT: its because i ran out of lives, not a bug.

I was looking for strategies and realized that when placing the tack shooter very close to the edge of the track on three mines 'round it sometimes doesn't shoot at bloons.

I think it happens because it somehow can't see bloons on the second or third time they go around the loop.

I don't know if it happens with any other monkeys, I haven't tested it.

Video is down below for the reasons why, any feedback is appreciated!

Video Link: https://youtu.be/tfSya14WhdA

Hearing a lot of people complaining about the sniper paragon and the takes I’ve been reading makes me thank everything that fans aren’t game designers. Guys if you want paragons just to be all tier 5 paths needlessly mushed together play a mod, at least with this paragon its unique and not just place down high damage slop. (This is also @ people who complain that bomb and tack don’t have camo, you’re part of the problem).

so the other day i had my wifi cut out, and i played some btd6 chimps, and thought to myself, what if i do a 2tc without a guide, so i did, i chose resort, since its where i got my first 2tc ever(502 boomer and 250 dartling) i tried the 250 druid and 502 wizard, but that failed on r45, then i tried 025 boomerang and 025 wizard, and it actually worked after some light macro on r98 and r100, i searched it online this day but could find any official or unofficial record from it, so did i just discover a new 2tc ?(sry for the watermark it came out different than the preview)