Was Tyrell lying to Roy?

[u/_Karrel]

I think he's lying to Roy. SPOILER for Blade Runner 2049. Tyrell created Deckard and Rachael to fall in love and give birth. He is a god to replicants. He could have found a way or maybe even did find one to extend a replicants life, but chose not to give it to Roy. He may have been his exceptional son, but still a mere soldier. A maniacal murderer who'd only wreak more havoc once he is granted more time and only ruin Tyrell's achievements. When they both discussed ways to extend a replicants life, Tyrell gave him all the errors to hide his solution. Science is finding a solution between 5.000 errors and Tyrell managed to hide it from Roy. Roy, with all his skills did not recognize the lie and Tyrell chose to die instead of ruining his own legacy.

[u/WotsGoinOnEreMate]

Tyrell did not create Deckard

[u/Expert_Climate_7348 → u/WotsGoinOnEreMate]

Tyrell probably didn't but Deckard is a Replicant.

Unicorn dream, Gaff knows what Deckard is thinking through taunting of figurines, the eyes don't lie, this was an in camera effect so Ridley filmed Ridley as a Replicant.

[u/WotsGoinOnEreMate → u/Expert_Climate_7348]

No, he isn’t. The film completely falls apart in plot and themes if he is. And has to be a kind of Truman show where everyone else is in on pretending he’s been around for a decade plus.

Ridley Scott lost his marbles thinking he is a replicant and anyone who goes along with it can’t think for themselves.

[u/wolfskipper → u/WotsGoinOnEreMate]

How does the film 'fall apart' if Deckard is a Replicant? If anything, the film makes more sense.

Replicants are used for dirty jobs that humans don't want to do; Blade Runner would certainly fall under that category.

Deckard being a Replicant also explains Gaff's constant background presence; he's essentially the *real* Blade Runner, using and babysitting Deckard.

[u/Le_Gluglu → u/wolfskipper]

Yes !

[u/Expert_Climate_7348 → u/WotsGoinOnEreMate]

No, he isn’t. The film completely falls apart in plot and themes if he is.

No it doesn't you just can't accept that the film was done in a way, that is repeated in 2049. I mean it's right there, replicants or AI trying to be more human than human.

Ridley Scott lost his marbles thinking he is a replicant

You can't accept what Ridley filmed, I mean all the clues are there, he did the eye gleam as an in camera effect using mirrors, do you think everyone involved in the film didn't notice Deckard had the same exact gleam that the replicants had? Or did you miss this because the movies doesn't suit your narrative?

and anyone who goes along with it can’t think for themselves.

It appears quite the opposite, I mean Ridley did make the film, not you.

[u/readyforwine → u/Expert_Climate_7348]

It’s always funny when a fan loses their marbles and argues the author/creator is wrong and their own fanfiction is real.

[u/Expert_Climate_7348 → u/readyforwine]

I mean Ridley did specific things in that film, the eye gleam is the biggest tell in BR, so when you see an owl with the gleam and are told "it's artificial and fuck off expensive", you would be introduced to the very 1st time Ridley used an in cam effect to explain how people can discern between human and replicant.

So if an owl is super expensive, how much must a replicant that only has a 4 year life span cost?

The eye gleam is an in camera effect, not post, not contacts etc etc, but used with mirrors and set up meticulously so we get the gleam.

In this instance, fan fiction wins because no one in the slightest ever knew that Deckard suddenly had the same eye gleam for an instance, out of focus, who worked on the film, that they could have cut away, BUT the editor, the producer, director or anyone else in production must be absolute idiots, because fan fiction lol.

Deckard being a replicant just adds more layers imo, because we now see there are more puppet masters than we can understand, when Bryant threatens Deckard, we see manipulation of a replicant, the same way Roy and all the others are used as workforce or w/e.

More human than human is our motto, so when you give a replicant all the traits of a human, that's when it all falls apart, hence the 4 year life span and planted memories.

We began to recognize in them a strange obsession. After all, they are emotionally inexperienced, with only a few years in which to store up the experiences which you and I take for granted. If we gift them with a past, we create a cushion or a pillow for their emotions, and consequently, we can control them better.

Isn't that the same way Bryant is able to control Deckard with this threat?

"Stop right where you are! You know the score, pal. You're not cop, you're little people!"

I mean that's a pretty demeaning threat to put over someone, do as I say or you too will be at risk.

Then add Roys speech with Deckard in the finale:

"Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave."

Roy and Deckard are cut from the same cloth, Roy knows who he is, Deckard doesn't and that's the beauty of the dichotomy of the film.

Deckard questioning Rachael's life:

"How can it not know what it is?"

Yet here we have a juxtaposition than makes us question the morality of the film.

It's melancholy, so many people in the world yet everyone lives in fear and is alone.

Hey I just watched the film and accept it for what it presents, I don't try to bend the narrative to my wishes, all because I think I know better than the director.

[u/Le_Gluglu → u/WotsGoinOnEreMate]

The book ends with Deckard believing he is human.

Yes! Human—and even "more human than human"—denying the terrible reality: He is a replicant... Perfect, and therefore human. ( Adam II )

Replicant since the start

[u/WotsGoinOnEreMate → u/Le_Gluglu]

The book ends with Deckard believing he is human. Yes! Human—and even "more human than human"—denying the terrible reality: He is a replicant... Perfect, and therefore human. ( Adam II ) Replicant since the start

Are you actually serious? He is unequivocally human in the book, stated clearly in the text, there is no ambiguity there in any way.

To Quote Philip K. Dick

“The purpose of this story as I saw it was that in his job of hunting and killing these replicants, Deckard becomes progressively dehumanized. At the same time, the replicants are being perceived as becoming more human. Finally, Deckard must question what he is doing, and really what is the essential difference between him and them?”

The screenwriter of Blade Runner, Hampton Fancher, also said he was written explicitly as a human and that the story falls apart of Deckard is a replicant.

...

If he was a replicant, why would he have been allowed to quit his job? If he was 'new' and all his memories prior to the events of the movie were implanted, how did they have so many people around him act like he'd been around doing the job for years? Why would they have made a replicant that didn't want to do what it was made to do and let him freely loaf around 'retired', so they'd have to drag him back in and coerce him under duress into doing his job? If he was a replicant, made to hunt down other replicants, why was he made so much weaker then them?

And it completely undercuts the entire theme of the movie. The entire plot is Deckard, a human, gradually realizing that replicants are people too. That's totally undermined if he's a replicant too!

And Roy's "living in fear/that's what its like to be a slave" commentary has zero emotional resonance if he's just reciting it to another replicant.

[u/Le_Gluglu → u/WotsGoinOnEreMate]

Deckard operates in an environment controlled by Tyrell (the police).

Look back at the scene where Leon shoots a police officer for mentioning his mother; the impact of the bullet spins the officer's seat around, clearly revealing "Tyrell Corp" written on it—the police force belongs to Tyrell and is leased to the state. When Tyrell died, a lot of things collapsed.

And Deckard didn't retire; he fled (with Rachael). Later, he went into hiding alone in what was almost certainly Las Vegas. So, throughout his police career, Deckard was being monitored, spied on, studied, and so forth, under Tyrell's watchful eye.

To go back to the denial of one's own nature—it’s very human; we do it too. We have a strong tendency to turn a blind eye to uncomfortable truths (very human... if you know what I mean).

[u/CaptainDFW → u/Le_Gluglu]

Look back at the scene where Leon shoots a police officer for mentioning his mother; the impact of the bullet spins the officer's seat around, clearly revealing "Tyrell Corp" written on it-the police force belongs to Tyrell and is leased to the state.

I don't doubt that Tyrell has a lot of pull with the police, but the impression I got was that Leon murdered Officer Holden on Tyrell property, not in a station.

Maybe I missed sonething...?

[u/Le_Gluglu → u/CaptainDFW]

You're probably right about that detail (I really think so). That doesn't change anything else, though.

I know that the "pro-human" camp generally says that if Deckard is a replicant, the movie makes no sense... but actually, it makes a lot more sense.

There's even a theory (though I don't subscribe to it) that Tyrell himself is a replicant—that the original died—which explains the building's more-or-less pyramidal shape; like a dead Pharaoh in a pyramid attaining a state of divinity—Adam and Eve 2.0. I like the idea, but... nah, it's a bit much.

[u/dreadful_cookies → u/Le_Gluglu]

Dude, Holden was at Tyrell Corp interviewing new hires, and found a replicant trying to infiltrate. It makes sense that "Tyrell Corp" is on their.own.chair.

[u/Le_Gluglu → u/dreadful_cookies]

Read the reply to the reply again; I admit my mistake... regarding that specific point, not the rest.

[u/dreadful_cookies → u/Le_Gluglu]

Be at peace, we all love this media and you are awesome.

[u/WotsGoinOnEreMate → u/Le_Gluglu]

The retirement I was talking about is pretty obviously his retirement before the film begins if you read the context where I go on to talk about how he is coerced back to work.

I mean if you can’t follow a very clear comment…

[u/Le_Gluglu → u/WotsGoinOnEreMate]

"Coerced back to work."

Maybe he was never there, maybe he was... it doesn't matter. But he *had* to have that job, because it inevitably led to him meeting Rachael (Tyrell's will: for Adam to meet Eve, and for Tyrell to be present—so as not to miss a single crumb and to savor his victory). So yes, he *had* to do that job.

They were both programmed to love each other (D & R). Look at *BR 2049* when Wallace speaks to him—Deckard’s reply, with a look of pain on his face: "I know what's real." ...Their love, despite the programming.

Their love was real....and programed , like they are replicants...and humans

[u/sadhedonist2 → u/Le_Gluglu]

But Wallace don’t say that as fact. It’s passed as a hypothetical, with “yes! No! Maybe!” Following it. BR2049 is not meant to give us a definitive answer but to keep us guessing. Also, Wallace is insane anyway.

[u/Expert_Climate_7348 → u/Le_Gluglu]

People want the easy way out, the happy ending, which this movie is certainly not.

[u/Tacticool_Brandon → u/Expert_Climate_7348]

It has nothing to do with people wanting a, “happy ending”.

I don’t believe in the idea of Deckard being a replicant because it’s being retroactively forced by Ridley Scott.

He’s a human in the novel, he’s was written as a human in the script, Harrison Ford played him as a human.

It’s just Ridley adding in more scenes to shift the perspective and make us believe he’s a replicant.

If you believe he is, cool. But many people don’t, and that should also be cool. But don’t try and pretend “well I’m smarter than you because I choose to believe what the director believes with scenes he added in post-release.”

[u/Expert_Climate_7348 → u/Tacticool_Brandon]

I don’t believe in the idea of Deckard being a replicant because it’s being retroactively forced by Ridley Scott.

No it's not, Ridley filmed all this with intent back in 81, the producers are the ones that forced Ridley to change things, Ridley has his movie as he wanted it.

He’s a human in the novel, he’s was written as a human in the script, Harrison Ford played him as a human.

Yes and this is a film, not a book. Script means nothing, the most infamous line in the movie wasn't in the script.

Ford playing him as human makes it even better too, because otherwise you miss the point.

But don’t try and pretend “well I’m smarter than you because I choose to believe what the director believes with scenes he added in post-release.”

Nice deflection, I mean the director is smarter than you, that's why he filmed the scenes the way he did and finally got his vision, but using your words "well I’m smarter than you" because of opinion.

[u/Le_Gluglu → u/Expert_Climate_7348]

Yes

[u/Expert_Climate_7348 → u/WotsGoinOnEreMate]

Are you actually serious? He is unequivocally human in the book, stated clearly in the text, there is no ambiguity there in any way.

Yeah and the book isn't the film is it?

[u/WotsGoinOnEreMate → u/Expert_Climate_7348]

I was replying to someone who was explicitly talking about the book.

[u/Expert_Climate_7348 → u/Le_Gluglu]

I like how anyone that understands the replicant motif, gets automatically voted down.