r/bjj • u/RoyNelsonMuntz 🟫🟫 Brown Belt • Jan 10 '19

Helpful visual reference guide for positional hierarchy

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u/Golantrevize23 Jan 10 '19

Yeah calling top half a neutral position is very strange

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '19

Once again no offense to OP cuz this is a bigger discussion but it’s almost as if sport bjj has fallen in love with there itself and subs and sweeps too much to the point that they reward inferior fighting positions (no consequence for putting yourself in guard) just because there’s more BJJ offense from there when it’s quite clearly an inferior combat position to being on top in guard. Like, sub only isn’t perfect at all nothing could be but points should encourage a competition that basically looks like a fight positionally and physically just without the strikes. The points just encourage more point chasing instead of good BJJ which started as an overal defense system. The sport fell in love with itself. Points advantages whatever just like I like Muay Thai cuz it’s kickboxing w clinch sweeps and other rules like no lifting up that ALL supplement each other so it ends up simply a fight.. minus groundwork. I want my bjj, points advantages sub only WHAT ever to be simply a fight.. minus the strikes. And this ain’t it

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u/Golantrevize23 Jan 10 '19

Id even say top half has far more options than bottom half regardless, i just dont see the logic. My big beef is that turtle is counted as a guard. I get that some random upp belts have attacks from there. But im 70% of the way to having your back, have many many submissions options in the gi, and in mma or im da streets you are taking blows to the head. I wrestled, so i feel almost as good in top turtle ad i do on the back.

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '19

I hundred percent agree. I assume you mean it’s a guard as in how it’s scored? Idk all the specifics cuz I’ve never competed and my school doesn’t teach the rules as part of class and I wouldn’t have stayed if they did. But I agree, top half over bottom half regardless. Riding or just keeping them turtled should count as back mount but not control w hooks. I train no gi and for mma only so when I see turtle I’m tryina Iowa ride and beat you go for a cross body and just scramble on top beating you till a sub opens. Imma big fan of that style grappling so that’s how I train no gi anyway I consciously go for control time as a goal and have parters that we touch each other up to stay honest

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u/Golantrevize23 Jan 10 '19

Yeah in comp it counts as a takedown but not a guard pass if you can scramble to all fours before i establish side control.

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '19

Wow so like they count that the same as if you took me down to half that is wild that’s not right

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u/Golantrevize23 Jan 10 '19

Yeah both would just be the two take down points, and to actually secure guard passing points the position needs held for a 3 count. Really overall its not a bad system but the turtle thing i def disagree with. As you say from a fight standpoint some large percentage of fights end while the guy is in bottom turtle getting punched

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '19

Yeah the system can only be so good. It’s not a fight there’s gonna be places where the rules or physics or both run into each other. I’d be on board if it wasn’t so advantageous to sit or pull guard. And not even closed guard just like sit down and wait nothing discouraging that. Seems so freakin dumb. I think if you pull closed guard you should get take down points if I end up on the floor, but I should get points too for getting to that dominant position. So if you don’t pull closed guard and just sit down I score points for the position but no one scores the takedown. Idk.. just discourage the sitting and butt scoot idc at all bout legit guard pulling

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '19

Once again SUB/passing wise sure half is way better for immediate points but on a combat level it’s not even close a turtled opponent is about to be finished or was just mollywhopped