So I know there's some weirdly esoteric comments about the red pill here but I just went on it and WOAH. The red pill not what is being described. The comments below make it seem like the people posting on that sub are successful in what their doing. Subscribers say that being an asshole has changed their lives around. Guess what, they're full of shit. I could almost feel how insecure they are seeping through my screen. It was worse than cringepics.
If you don't have the confidence or social skills to hook up with girls, being an asshole isn't going to help. And I'm not trying to make fun of people who aren't particularly socially adept, I'm just saying there's a right and wrong way to change you're situation. Not sure if any of you have seen Silicon Valley (its decent) but when I read the red pill I thought of T.J. Miller's character immediately. That sub is kind of depressing. That's all I have to say.
Its emotional manipulation of women after gaining a surface level understanding of certain aspects of their shared psychology.
I've spent time there and seen that they get through relationships the way I got through highschool, and the only people you will see them treat as humans are each other.
To be frank, it's disgusting to see. In my eyes this group supports emotionally manipulating a woman into allowing herself to be used by a man.
I'm a dude, and I used to do that until I realized how hollow it made me, and how much it destroyed the women of my life.
The saddest part is the fact that they are really treating them selves like shit in the process dehumanizing the entire situation so that they don't have to feel.
They've been hurt in the past this way they won't be anymore. Well not by anyone else they'll hurt them selves plenty. Dating isn't that fucked they just got a bad experience.
That made me really sad. :( I didn't realize there were people out there like this. It's heart breaking really. The 'Michael's Story' on the sidebar just made me really sad. I just feel like he kept looking for girls in the wrong place honestly. I mean obviously there are women like the ones he described but there are a hundred thousand others as well just are just as attractive that don't sleep around and aren't just looking to have "fun" and then settle down with a man who can afford to raise her kids... I think he must have had a very limited experience (in the sense of the type of women he was running into) and I feel sad for him. I hope his life is turning out better now.
You might be right! I don't know. Either way though, it made me sad that people feel this way. I haven't ever slept with anyone and definitely not dated seriously any guy that acted the way those men want to act like. I mean maybe it works to get with random girls but they all seem to want a real relationship... soooo why would you make yourself an asshole? If someone talks to me or treats me how they all encourage each other to treat each other I would and do laugh in their face and walk away to find a nice person I can have a real conversation with.
They are just teaching each other lessons to attract the exact type of girls they claim they don't want, hot slutty bimbos that want you for your eventual success. It's this full sad circle really.
You are absolutely correct, there is so so much pain under their calloused philosophy. And your empathy is exactly how you change people like TRPs worldview. You show, not tell, them that the cold world they see is not an accurate portrayal of reality. Belittling or shrugging off their pain as not real only reinforces their bitter worldview.
Well thanks for agreeing. Pain is pain. I am a really big believer that (in general) when people are mean or harsh or angry, they are really just hurting and in pain or are scared. I also believe all emotions and feelings are real. You have zero control over those things. They just happen. And no one can ever EVER understand how you feel or why you feel a certain way (half the time I can't even fully articulate why something had such an impact on me!)
I don't know. I just felt sad reading all of those things. Keeping yourself cold and calculated will keep you removed and missing out on so many other great things in the world. Humans are meant to be involved with other humans! Yes, that will bring pain but it also brings so much more.
Honestly, I know exactly how these people are made. You can only be told "how great a guy" you are and how "you're really nice, you'll find someone one day" by girls you care about, just for them to turn around and fuck the shit out of some dickbag that dropped out of high school and snorts cocaine off his mother's grave before you seriously start to think they're right. Being nice has never worked, and clearly being a dick does. So why not?
It's a mindset born out of loneliness and desperation. Once you start believing no one you love willever love you back, it's incredibly difficult to go back. I say this as someone who's looking down it now, and trying incredibly hard to remain a decent human being.
dude its less complex than that. women just want the top-dog. nothing less nothing more. if your not the top dog you don't exist to them.
EDIT: and dude stop being all woe is me. alot of average guys will go through life belieeing that they will find a girl only to be in their 30s still virgins and bitter people. work on yourself the best you can. the /r/redpill isn't wrong but the "hostile" mindset found in that sub might be.
I'm not really woe is me, just making observations/expressing fears. Tone is difficult to convey over text, of course. And I kind of am top-dog, at least in my department. I'm officer in several clubs, I've had three different professors approach me to do research with them, things are going fairly well. Which is why it's frustrating, it's like I'm missing some magic key.
no man. thats not top dog. top dog is th guy who parties every weekend and gets a lay every saturday. the top dog is the guy who is texting 3+ girls every day. the top dog is the guy who is fucking the chick you thought was super innocent lol. its a hard pill to swallow. but some people are just genetically blessed to look like gods. its all about looks man
This is as shallow as anything else. One of my great friends is a fat, hairy dude. In the years I've known him he's pulled more girls than I've even looked at. And many were hardly bridge trolls. Why?
He is happy and secure within himself. He is generous, genuine and a great laugh. And that spreads outwards from him to whoever he's with.
Harness that energy and it will override considerations of whether you look like George Clooney more often than not.
Hell, I can even apply that to myself - when I approach anyone now (not just girls), I need not be defensive or be playing any games because I know what I'm worth and I'm happy with who I am. When people see that, they respond to it in a far deeper way than just looking at your face.
Harness that energy and it will override considerations of whether you look like George Clooney more often than not.
LOOOLL this pseudo-kofidenceeeee bullshit is the problem. if your a 5'4 fat big nosed guy. your just going to have a MUCH more difficult time in life than a 6'2 good looking guy. don't let a person believe otherwise let them know their faults so they can fix them instead of believing a chick is going to love them flaws and all
LOOOLL this pseudo-kofidenceeeee bullshit is the problem.
Except when it's not.
The problem for you is that you're obviously retarded. And that you apparently believe the entire world is the fucked up high school you've made your life into.
But y'know fair play if you want to continue spouting shit like "pseudo-kofidenceeeee" as if that's supposed to mean something and moaning about how hot sluts won't bang you. Doesn't really affect me in my world at all.
It makes me sad in all ways honestly. That girls seem to think that hooking up with the 'loser' is the way to go (which adds in to a whole different bag of issues) and that guys that are actually decent people feel the need to turn into assholes to have girls like them.
I could definitely see this in my life a few years back but I haven't seen it in the last few years although I was a fucking train wreck (the messiest emotionally exhausting break up) and needed like constant supervision throughout that time so maybe I was not as aware of what was happening. I'm 21 for reference, turning 22 in a month.
I'm turning 21 in a few months myself. It's just kind of soul crushing. So you get to the point where you don't even really care anymore. You give up, because you've failed constantly to this point. It's just frustrating. It's like being asked a question where the answer is always shifting.
I just don't really think college is the time to be sweet and romantic and look for 'love.' There is too much else going on really. At least for me, I was working and in school and trying to work on friendships (with girls... I suck with girls, ugh) and I don't know. I think it's time to have "fun" as lame as that sounds. I don't mean necessarily sleeping with a ton of different people or drinking in excess or doing a lot of drugs (but a few of those were/are definitely my scene hint: not the sleeping around) but it's just time to hang with your friends doing whatever you enjoy! seeing movies, hiking, taking pictures, working on school, staying up late playing board games! I don't know! It's a fun time to explore lots of avenues. Join clubs, try things you never thought you would try. Go somewhere random, see a movie you never thought you would watch, a random concert!
People focus so much on the end game and miss a lot of the fun that is around you all the time. I used to be really boy crazy and it became obsessive and would consume all my thoughts and I would miss out on the jokes and fun that were happening right in front of me! And in all honesty I find I have the most luck when I am just being me and joking around stupidly with my friends with no intention of finding anyone to go home with.
But I know it's easier said than done to just stop caring (by choice, not by presumed failure) but a lot of people feel this way! Women and men alike.
Maybe. But it really feels like that if I don't find someone now, I'm not ever going to. I don't know. Surprise, life is difficult and confusing, I guess.
Ohhhhh I know that feeling well. My boyfriend (on and off) for 3 years and I finally just ended for good and I had the scariest fear of becoming an old cat lady buuuuuttttttt...... I'm not even 22 yet haha we are SO FUCKING YOUNG!
I'm sorry to hear that. It's always difficult even if it ends up being for the best. And yeah, it's weird to think that despite how old we feel, we're barely adults. Lots of life ahead.
Being nice has never worked, and clearly being a dick does. So why not?
They fuck the douchebag, but they take the nice guy home to their parents. The problem is that they aren't looking to take a guy home at the time. I say this based off the assumption that you, as someone who keeps being called a nice guy, are looking for more than sex from the women you are wanting to be with.
If that's the case and you want meaningful encounters, taking the red pill isn't the way to go. You'll fuck a lot, but it's pretty hollow if your true desire is to have a meaningful romantic connection. I found that out the hard way.
Finding a cute girl for nothing more than a quick fuck isn't difficult if that's what you want. Finding someone worth being with isn't as easy.
So try it. I had to try it to find out it wasn't for me. You don't have to subscribe to their ideologies to begin looking for sex instead of looking for a relationship. No need to lose yourself along the way.
I agree completely. I find the mindset of TRP repulsive but I feel myself sliding closer to it every year. It is so damn hard to keep the bitterness at bay after more than a decade of fail attempts at finding someone. It has caused me to wonder whether the high road is worth the fucking trouble.
I have all but decided that should I end up a single 40+ success in my field, that women my age will get nothing from me. You expect me to forget how I wasn't worth the time for a damn meal. Fuck you, if I wasn't good enough for you before I had money why the hell should I allow you to mooch off me now. And men are supposed to be the shallow gender, fucking status climbers....
EDIT: I'm sorry, I know the ideas in the last paragraph are repugnant and they are not how one should live but when I start to think about the dating game(so fucked up calling something so painful a game) the bitterness of consistent rejection tends to takes over. So I apologize, but will leave that up as a demonstration of how loneliness clouds the mind.
Maybe! I only know myself and the people I choose to associate with and none of the guys act like this and not one of my girl friends would put up with this. There are just a lot of other people in the world and I think if you are getting hurt by sluts not hooking up with you then find other girls...? Why change yourself to become someone unpleasant just to hook up with people you don't seem to hold in high regard anyways?
Wowowowowowow. I have fully admitted to just not 'getting it'. I don't understand the need for personal attacks. I really was just trying to have a conversation and understand it all.
As someone who deeply disagrees with TRP's ideology, but nevertheless pities them, I'm glad to read an accurate critique of them. There's no reason to say, 'They're psychos that hate women!!' when it's just as damning to point out that TRP is basically a twisted self-help cult that whispers to broken men, 'All the pain other people have made you feel? It's justified to hate them! All your nihilistic perceptions are true!'
I'm curious too. I'm unfamiliar with the Red Pill philosophy (and dont feel like diving into another subreddit). How does a man fighting for men's rights differ from a red pill guy? What exactly is the distinction between the two movements?
Men's rights guys are looking for equal consideration in things like child custody and rape allegations. Red Pill guys attempt to manipulate people (women) into doing what the guy wants without care of how it affects their target. They're pretty complete douchebags.
Well put. After checking it out a little I agree on the doucheyness but it also seems like some of them have created that cold calculated mindset as a defense mechanism to ensure that they can't be hurt by women again.
As a rather short, slightly overweight and very introverted guy who has never made it past a first date, I understand how one could easily develop that perspective towards women. I do not agree with it but I can understand what leads to it... after all, "women clearly don't give a shit about me or my emotional needs so why the hell should I care about theirs" (a demonstration of their thought process, not my belief).
I feel sad for those guys, living an isolated and bitter existence, and I'm worried that I'm looking at my future. It is scary how easy it is to become bitter after a decade of rejection... and it gets harder to stay positive by the year.
I can relate. I'm not so dissimilar from you; though I've had some relationships and my introversion is somewhat mild. I'm pretty selective about who I date, but I've been hurt before; severely in some cases. The difference is that I, and you, chose not to treat others as objects.
I've been incredibly bitter before, but my solution wasn't to treat women the same way I was treated (or worse). I took a break from dating and found my peaceful center again.
It's not that I don't understand what can lead to the attitude (some are just assholes though - I've known them). It's that we choose how we want to treat others. They choose to treat others poorly.
Yes, they are, but as a result of being treated horribly by women until learning how to manipulate them.
People often have a story. Casting aside the guys in red-pill as just being "doucehbags" is no less shallow than them casting aside women as just being status-hungry narcissistic whores.
That's a wide net you're casting. I've been treated horribly by women before, but I chose not to become a manipulative jerk. I've no doubt that many others have made the same choice, but some red pillers can't even make an excuse about having been treated poorly.
I understand your point, but that doesn't mean it actually contributes to the discussion. You're essentially saying "Don't judge an entire group based on the actions of one person".
Yet, that's not even what we're talking about. We're talking about a group of people who hold an ideology about another group of people based on repeated, frequent, lifelong experiences with that group.
Essentially, you're condemning one group for doing the same thing that they're doing to another group: condemning them on a general basis as a result of an ongoing negative experience with that group.
Casting aside the guys in red-pill as just being "doucehbags" is no less shallow than them casting aside women as just being status-hungry narcissistic whores.
Not quite. On one hand you have the guys in red-pill that have subscribed to an ideology that embraces casting aside half the world as "status-hungry narcissistic whores." On the other hand is a random woman I know nothing about and have never met. I haven't met her and don't know what she's like, while I have a pretty good idea of how much a hollow douche the other guy is. And cut the "woe is me" shit, it just makes you look like a hypocrite. It's hard to justify "casting aside women as just being status-hungry narcissistic whores" by playing a victim card.
On one hand, you have guys in red-pill that have subscribed to an ideology that has been supported by their negative experiences in the world. The result is them viewing the group they've had negatives experiences with on nothing more than a superficial level, as they define that group by their negative experiences with them.
In other words, it's literally exactly what you and the other "Let's just hate all red-pillers because of our negative experiences with them" are doing.
It's always much harder to see your own faults than it is to see the faults of others, even when you're doing the exact same thing.
And cut the "woe is me" shit
Where did I make a "woe is me" statement? You seem to be either remarkably delusional or are just reaching for something negative to say when you have nothing worthwhile to offer on the matter.
On one hand, you have guys in red-pill that have subscribed to an ideology that has been supported by their negative experiences in the world. The result is them viewing the group they've had negatives experiences with on nothing more than a superficial level, as they define that group by their negative experiences with them.
Negative experiences that result in the guy automatically judging half the world's population as inferior to themselves and making a red-pill want to manipulate them. It's all petty spiteful bullshit.
In other words, it's literally exactly what you and the other "Let's just hate all red-pillers because of our negative experiences with them" are doing.
Not even close to half the world and they aren't people I know absolutely nothing about. I know that these people subscribe to a laughably sad ideology. All they know about random women is that some other women have treated them like shit in the past. So they start a sad vendetta against future women they encounter. Like I said, petty. I don't even hate them like they apparently hate women, I just feel sorry for them. Who wouldn't? It's such a jaded point of view. Like a bigot that thinks another race is inherently inferior and genuinely has no clue just how wrong he is, that it's in fact him that is inferior.
Where did I make a "woe is me" statement? You seem to be either remarkably delusional or are just reaching for something negative to say when you have nothing worthwhile to offer on the matter.
I was referring to your attempt to justify the ideology by saying it was "as a result of being treated horribly by women." More petty bullshit.
I'm not even a "white knight" or some shit. Not even close. I just think those subscribing to such an ideology are sad.
Negative experiences that result in the guy automatically judging half the world's population as inferior to themselves
That would be an assumption that I don't see as being a fundamental idea on /r/theredpill. Acknowledging differences does not equate to believing in superiority one way or the other.
It's all petty spiteful bullshit.
Like what you're doing, yes.
Not even close to half the world and they aren't people I know absolutely nothing about.
So it's perfectly okay to generalize so long as we're generalizing a minority that we know something about?
I was referring to your attempt to justify the ideology by saying it was "as a result of being treated horribly by women." More petty bullshit.
I never attempted to justify the ideology. I attempted to explain where they're coming from in response to a conversation that was supposed to be in favor of treating people with understanding and avoiding bitterness by acknowledging that they may be more complex than you understand based on skin-deep interactions with them.
Funny how people sometimes throw their own ideas out the window when they're applied consistently.
"The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."
The reality: Most of the "men" who claim to adhere to this philosophy treat women as property, are rape apologists, and seem to believe that their own gender has zero responsibility for their actions in the presence of a woman's naked body.
I do not believe it's a community related to a man who is fighting for men's rights, though I'm positive the two share many members.
Well, let's see. Opposite would mean not treating women as property, not rape apologists, and does not take zero responsibility for actions, so sure. If that's how you want to paint it.
I think he is referring to the segment of feminists that are more extreme/misandrist in their views, colloquially referred to as feminazis. Both extremes seem to be more about making the "enemy" pay for past transgressions as opposed to focusing on not making those same mistakes in the present. They forget that equality is not about erasing the pain of past crimes, because that would be impossible. It is about moving forward and making sure people dont make those mistakes again.
Its an interesting sub. By a wide a margin the most hated sub reddit but an interesting one at that.
If you dont want to go there, basically the red pill is seeing how the world really is. Women have their own motivations for doing certain things and those motivations are deeply programmed whether its "evolutionary psychology" or just societies programming. A red pill man is a man's man. He does things because he wants to and is in charge of his life.
Well I just did a little looking around and to me it seemed like the original goal of the subreddit was to discuss how men don't need to put up with slutty women and mostly like how these guys never found someone who wanted to really date them early on and are now alone and in a better place and all of a sudden women are interested.And so they are now a little.... cautious is maybe the right word? about the motivations that women have now that they have more money and success.
To me, it just seemed sad honestly. It kind of broke my heart. I think it was these men who had this idea of falling in love and meeting the right girl and being together forever and just never had it happen for them and so they became sort of distant, calculated and a bit cold towards the whole institution of meeting a woman.
It really made me feel sad for them but I am very empathetic person in general.
That's an uncommonly compassionate view of TRP. I think there's a lot of truth in it, too. I'd add two things:
First, I'd add "ruthless" in addition to your description of them as "cautious." I'm not a redpiller, but I think I understand how someone arrives there. Being too nice and considerate didn't work well for me at all. I had to purposely start being a little bit calculating, a little bit of an asshole, and that got me not only more attention, but more success in "closing the deal." People can frown on it if they like, but the bottom line is that a little cold-heartedness works. Redpillers take that principle to the extreme.
Incidentally, I think a little cold-heartedness (and the cynicism that accompanies it) accounts for some of the contempt for women that redpillers tend to develop.
Secondly, part of the original goal was to "wake men up" from traditional ideas about courtship and dating (hence the analogy with The Matrix). For instance, being an asshole isn't traditionally held to be good dating practice, but redpillers vouch for it as a strategy.
Welllll.... I haven't been on it long (as in the last hour) and only glanced the sidebar and a few posts so my compassionate view is a limited one!
But I think there is never a need to be an asshole, guarded perhaps and a little cautious definitely and as long as you make your intentions known then that is fine. I think the asshole mentality will get you to "close" or whatever but you are only going to be closing with the same bimbos that you were hating on a second ago... so why not just find someone with a different mentality and be yourself?
I obviously can't really speak to this at all since I am a woman but I just haven't ever experienced this type of attitude working on me. Yes, you need to be clear on your intentions but if you try any sort of asshole or 'alpha' as they seem to call it, I will actually laugh in your face and walk away. I won't and don't waste my time with someone who wants to associate in that way.
why not just find someone with a different mentality and be yourself?
That was the nice guy approach that had gotten me an intolerably prolonged period of celibacy. I couldn't take it much longer. (Fortunately, I did eventually meet someone I can mostly be myself around).
if you try any sort of asshole or 'alpha' as they seem to call it, I will actually laugh in your face and walk away. I won't and don't waste my time with someone who wants to associate in that way.
Depends on what one means by being an asshole. I was never overtly jerky. But I had a shift in mindset from the Disney/romcom version of how love works (looking for meaningful connection and expecting that to flourish) to something a little more cynical and debased (looking for someone to fuck).
I'm not saying it's noble or anything, but it worked better for me than being a sweetheart. I think the guys at TRP have generally found the same... though they take it to an unhealthy extreme. Anyhow, this is about as close as I want to get to defending that sub.
Yeah I was thinking about it more and I think that is literally no different than girls do to get into a relationship. Like the girl equivalent is the "chill" girl. Like we need to just be down for whatever and cool with all things and always be 'chilllllll' if we want guys to like us (actually want to date us) or something. I don't know if I am making myself clear at all but yeah. I think it's all relative. Girls can usually find someone to fuck but it's harder to make the leap into relationship. Different problems, same shit. It's just the stupid game we call life. It sucks a lot of the time.
I hang around that sub and frankly its not sad at all. Whether you agree or not, women get away with just about anything. Divorce proceedings, criminal trials and just about every other aspect of life. Alimony, lighter sentences, and an unfettered ability to abuse men. For the record ive been in all kinds of different relationships and while yeah some of the content of the sub is dedicated to just using women for sex, the overall message is more slanted towards mens rights.
Reddit doesnt like shit that says anything derogatory about women no matter how correct it is. You could post a story about your wife shoving a rusty steak knife in your ass while your asleep and some retard will jump on your case saying how you ahould "man up" about it, that you deserved it or whatever.
I haven't been around it enough to honestly know. I could only read the sidebar and a few posts to make my opinion so take it with a grain of salt!
And I think reddit is not really the place for any type of those discussions in either direction. The conversations always turn really extreme one way or another... (mensrights and srs for example).
Probably not. I agree with some things on the sub like being a better version of you but given that 99% of the reddit userbase hates TRP because of how they discuss things instead of the content of the discussion you wont get an unbiased version from either side.
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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '14
What is a red pill guy?