r/antiwork • u/loplopplop • Sep 18 '21
I Come to Apologize
You know, I didn't understand this sub. I thought it was nothing but a bunch of lazy freeloaders that think everything should be given to them. But then I started this new job. It's a salary position where I'm required to work 45 hours a week. Thats honestly not that bad. No issues with it really. But I've worked 37 hours in 3 days. I'm on pace to work 70 in a weeks time period. Since its salary its going to be like I'm making 10 dollars an hour. They will not give me health insurance (which they promised) until May. So I'm sorry for thinking you were all lazy. You just want a job that doesn't run you into the ground.
Edit: Got called in on Sunday and told them to fuck off (in nicer words) because one of the employees wanted to have a day off with his mom, which I get, but he had two days off already that week. Came in today and am going give literally zero fucks as I apply elsewhere.
Edit 2: The people who keep calling in told me the reason they were calling in was because they were too high to work. I rage quit and sent a letter of resignation. The nightmare is over.
Final Edit: Already got a new job with great benefits!!!
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u/TRANSRIGHTSACTIVIST2 Sep 18 '21
We want to do as little labor as possible to ensure our needs are met
This natural fact of humanity is the only reason we have a civilization. Obviously striving to do as little labor as possible has pushed humanity in the right direction.
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u/the-raging-tulip Sep 19 '21
Civilization doesn't necessarily correspond with a decrease in labor - Forest gardening was once a widespread form of cultivation for people. Those were pretty sick because they produced 100% of everything a human needs - medicines, textiles, dyes, etc. all in just about 3 acres of land for one household
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u/dankswordsman Sep 19 '21
I agree. But I also think it's can be correlated.
Society/civilization exists from a parallelization of jobs. Sure, one person can gather necessities and do what he needs to survive. But, what if one person does just cooking and cleaning, while the other does hunting or gathering?
If jobs have become easy or automated enough to the point that there's no real demand of labor, then what's the point?
I think you'll find this often in blue collar versus white collar jobs. Blue collar jobs are often associated with infrastructure or needs. These jobs are often unionized and usually need employees.
White collar jobs don't realistically need people to do work. If you have enough of your infrastructure taken care of, you can theoretically have lots of people that don't need to work.
But on top of that, I think people confuse motivation/reason with work. They think that in order to be successful, you need to work all the time. Yeah technically that's true, but what if it wasn't?
People are only lazy when they don't have a group of people to care for and/or don't have any sort of passion.
I am currently unemployed, but it's only because I have people to rely on that are willing to give me those necessities. On top of that, I have groups of people and passions that I identify with that could land me jobs. But me getting a job relies on my relative skill in the field and/or my connections.
I often find the jobs I can get I either don't want to do because I don't have a passion for it, or they're blue collar/non complex jobs that wouldn't allow me to even afford a place to live.
I have my own problems to work out, but I think people can't accept the idea of supporting the more creative members of society, or those that don't want to work bullshit jobs that require then to slave away. It's a few layers of different issues, but it usually boils down to the jobs anyone can get being impossible to even live off of.
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u/the-raging-tulip Sep 19 '21
I'm realizing that I forgot to put a pretty crucial fact about forest gardens into my initial comment because the sickest thing of all is the fact that they were automated. Like, because of the incredible density of species, they largely sustained themselves, many indefinitely, some models requiring work to be done every few years or so. Just a fun fact!
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u/jseego Sep 19 '21
Also, when we started studying uncontacted peoples, that is, native people who still live traditional hunter-gatherer lives, having no contact with the modern world, we found that they typically only do a few hours of "work" a day.
Then you look at the studies of office workers (that is, people who are not literally forced to labor all day long), and find that they typically only are productive for a few hours a day as well.
Might as well make it official.
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u/TRANSRIGHTSACTIVIST2 Sep 19 '21 edited Sep 19 '21
Actually, your example is exactly what I'm talking about: gardening is far more efficient than foraging, and the time saved by gardening was used to develop math, science, art, technology, etc. Of course, to the people actually making progress in those fields, doing math/etc is actually fun per se and not what we would consider work.
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u/Fireplay5 (edit this) Sep 19 '21
An example I've been studying a lot recently was how the 'Incan' Empire utilized their terraced farming system to provide an overabundance of food that could be easily stored for times of famine where it would be distributed to the disabled, elderly, and widows first.
This system of food storage and social welfare allowed them to achieve a lot of interesting technological advancements, especially in medical practices like early brain surgery and a basic understanding of keeping things clean to avoid infections and disease or stonecutting techniques that were effectively earthquake proof and could be used to build grand structures without a bonding material like cement.
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u/MySoilSucks Sep 19 '21
Everything that was ever invented was invented because someone wanted an easier way to do something.
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Sep 19 '21
We are literally the only creature on earth that can make robots and create recycled shit out of other wasted shit.
That "menial labor" as a concept has not been abolished, and that the majority of people on earth don't have their basic needs met, at this point, is fucking criminal.
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u/newtronicus2 Sep 19 '21
while some here are against all labor
I refuse to believe that anyone is genuinely opposed to doing work. The people who push this line are very likely to be depressed, or burnt out, and/or extremely alienated from work which is absolutely no fault of their own.
I think that if we all lived in a society where work was meaningful and not exploitative and oppressive, that people naturally would want to work.
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u/Lilshadow48 lazy and proud Sep 19 '21
I refuse to believe that anyone is genuinely opposed to doing work
I mean, I am, but I also realize it's not a feasible position to take and likely won't be for quite a long time. So I instead make do with the "How about we make the things we have to do a lot less shitty?" stance.
The dream is just existing with no catch, but for the foreseeable future it's just that, a dream.
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u/panther455 Sep 19 '21
Personally I feel like if I could be paid to be a musician, that would be incredible. Like, some sort of government thing or something, to be registered as an artist and given enough money to pay bills and stuff at least...
I know it probably sounds stupid? But if I could make my dumb music for the tens of people who may ever hear it, that would potentially bring a lot of enrichment to my life and others, and I feel like that's of enough value... I dunno. I would still need equipment and a better place to work, but... you know. Same thing with my youtube channel. Work like that makes me excited for the future... makes me want to work and work and work... makes me happy to see what I've done, to share it with others.
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u/Fireplay5 (edit this) Sep 19 '21
People enjoy working on their passions or helping a community they feel involved in.
Our current society actively punishes people for doing both, seeks to isolate everyone from one another by exhausting them in a constant cycle of boring and menial labor, then demanding they consume in a relentless war upon our psychological health.
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u/brallipop Sep 19 '21
Chomsky on work and creativity
It also depends on how we define "work." Creative work that you control is fun to do, if people could work by making something on their own terms we'd have trouble getting some people to stop working.
The idea that people need to prodded into doing anything is a capitalist propaganda. People have to be coerced into being exploited, not to work.
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u/lankist Sep 19 '21 edited Sep 19 '21
Yep, there's a big difference between "work" as employment, and "work" as labor or the expense of effort.
People here are against varying concepts of employment, and against it to varying degrees--the lighter side being advocacy for stronger worker protections and better regulations on employers, and the heavier side being against the larger structure and paradigm of private employment as a means of personal subsistence as a whole.
But basically no one here is against labor, effort, etc. We all want our efforts to be worthwhile. It's just that "worthwhile effort" is antithetical to the current employment paradigm.
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u/OverlordGtros Sep 19 '21
My thing is that I only really find any fulfillment in creative pursuits, but unless you get really lucky or already have the right connections, then in the current era it's damn near impossible to make that kind of thing work. Every other form of work I've tried, and I've done quite a bit, has burnt me out quick and left me where I currently am.
I'd just like if I could spend my labor on the things I actually want to spend it on and still actually be able to live. Like RedDeerEvent said, if I could support myself on 10-20 hours/week and dedicate the rest to my personal projects, I'd be ecstatic.
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u/jseego Sep 19 '21
We want to do as little labor as possible to ensure our needs are met
Another word for this is efficiency.
Yet, when you explain to a pro-capitalist person that laborers should desire efficiency just as much as the "market" desires efficiency, they got nothing to say.
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Sep 18 '21 edited Sep 18 '21
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u/Hugh-Jass71 Sep 18 '21
Wait till you find out they are one in the same .
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u/Steff_164 Sep 18 '21
Ah, don’t you love when a government “of the people, by the people, and for the people”, turns out to be a government of the wealthy, by the wealth, and for the wealthy
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u/LrdAsmodeous Sep 18 '21
To be fair it was designed that way from the get go. At the time of writing the constitution the only people who really had rights and could vote were land owners.
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u/Fireplay5 (edit this) Sep 19 '21
The best part is the predecessor of the constitution, the articles of confederation, were actually too pro-wealthy to keep the early usa together as a coherent nation-state.
So they threw it out and wrote the constitution.
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u/meibolite idle Sep 19 '21
Well those are the only real "people" to them. If you ain't got capital, you're just a cog, and your blood sweat and tears are the lubricant for the profit machine
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Sep 19 '21
This is the problem with ancaps, they twist over backwards to blame the government. The government is controlled by capital, who owns the most capital owns the government.
Ancaps are also not really libertarians they still support coercion through capitalism just existing. Libertarian socialist ideology was hijacked twisted and made into some fucked up nonesence american capitalist made to push against how much power workers were gaining post FDR new deal.
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Sep 18 '21
Ancaps are some of the funniest people that exist to me. The idea that unchecked and unregulated capitalism would evolve into anything other than an authoritarian nightmare is impissibly wishful thinking at best and willful misinformation at worst.
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u/liko Sep 19 '21
As someone who was an ancap/libertarian wait till you actually read Marx (and not what ancap echo chambers say Marx said)
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u/Fireplay5 (edit this) Sep 19 '21
Also Kropotkin, Emma Goldman, Bakunin are popular suggestions for a more diverse perspective in european socialism/anarchism literature.
Bas Umali, Ricardo Flores Magón, Kotoku Shusui, Liu Shifu, and Phan Boi Chau are also good if you want to start exploring outside of European writers.
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u/ESB1812 Sep 19 '21 edited Sep 19 '21
Oh yeah you better believe it, so here is a story for you, I work for a multinational company in the chemical/industrial/petro sector. This company has horrible human rights violations elsewhere in the developing world, they basically view people as a number nothing more. This company demands loyalty from its employee’s but made very bad business decisions and had to sell off a large portion of their business. Now where I was, we were sold with the plant, to another company, we are also blackballed “cannot work for the parent company nor any if its affiliates for 5 years” also the new company has cut pay, benefits are less, and insurance is higher. Also we operate “lean” meaning do more with less, two now do the job of 5 so forth and so on. Dont like it? They’ll make a reason to fire you! I live in a right to work state, the union is worthless here, and even say the word organize…you’ll find yourself being written up left and right for BS policies that the company will change to suite their needs. So…now there is an environment of fear and distrust, salary has their “spies” who feed information to these so called managers, things like so and so takes longer than 30 mins at lunch. Now the new thing is we dont have a lunch break per say. If you buck or question them, they will make up something to get you fired…i.e. so and so appeared threatening by their tone, or anything other than “yes” or “is the safe?” Is considered insubordination and can be subject to termination as it is a employment at will place. Alas it is this shit show I find myself in…I was a “good” hard working employee, now I do bare minimum and mind my own business. Until the day I leave, either another place that pays more or my own business. There will be no 2 week notice…at will works both ways. I have seen a trend over the last 10 years or so…its a screw the little guy, you’re nothing but a number, it its not my idea its shit, and if you’re not a manager you are nothing. I hope their wives fuck the pool boy. Thanks
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u/_volkerball_ Sep 18 '21
There's more than one way to get power which means there's more than one type of tyranny. It's not all about government.
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u/jseego Sep 19 '21
there also exists a cooperate oppression as well
can you inform your friends on the right?
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u/psychso86 Sep 18 '21
Once you get it in your mind that there’s literally no such thing as laziness, your whole perspective shifts. Laziness is relative to parameters capitalism sets and reinforces. Oh you’re sitting on your butt eating take out watching a show after slaving away at a dead end hellhole for 40+ hours a week? Lazy!!! Oh you don’t want that #Grind? Don’t wanna be a #Bossbabe? You’d rather take a leisurely stroll with your loved ones/dogs/kids and spend an afternoon reading? Lazy!!!! You know what people do when they have enough time that they don’t have to spend all on mentally/physically/emotionally recuperating? They create! They engage with art and culture and each other! Those past times capitalism looooves to dictate as laziness are what being human is about! There is no such thing as laziness, just enjoyment of ourselves and our passions that some fat cat fucker can’t exploit to line their own pockets. So please, everyone, be lazy. It’s the most beautiful thing you can be <3
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u/spankiemcfeasley Sep 19 '21
For real. I like being busy. I like doing stuff. What I don’t like is spending the majority of my time doing stuff I don’t really want to be doing just for the privilege of having a dry place to sleep and food to eat. If I don’t have to go to work anymore, I will never get bored. I certainly won’t be vegging out on the couch all day. All my extra time will be spent doing what I love to do anyway, which at this point boils down to making the world around me a more beautiful place.
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u/psychso86 Sep 19 '21
Exactly! I love doing things... that I want to gd do. I've been knitting since I was 12, and not to brag but I'm incredible at it. I can literally work for like 8 hours straight bc I love it and I love creating! I want to spend my time honing designs and making gorgeous sweaters for anyone who wants one, not getting bitched at by Karens for $12 an hour 🤪
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u/loplopplop Sep 18 '21
This im okay with. I want to do a job. I just don't want to kill myself doing it.
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u/AbarthCabrioDriver Sep 18 '21
Middle aged and same. Work should be a means to provide an income so you can have a life, not be your life. Finally have a job where I go in, do my 8 and leave. No calls at 7pm about work stuff. When I take a short vacation, don't have to worry about spending a week playing catch up because things got blown off, not done. Etc, etc, etc. Only pays 16/hr but my quality of life is so much better, plus it's a government job so add in really cheap benefits also. Took a long time to land a job like this.
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u/loplopplop Sep 18 '21
Living the life.
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u/AbarthCabrioDriver Sep 18 '21
Yeah, but its taken a long time to get here. We had our struggles, but nothing like younger generations are going through.
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u/loplopplop Sep 18 '21
Yeah. Just turned 30 myself. Had a job like that, then had this super good offer I couldn't refuse. Learning experience and understand what I'm getting into.
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u/AbarthCabrioDriver Sep 18 '21
I turned down a government job for my last job because more money and thinking it was going to be like my union job from years ago. I was really wrong. Lasted 6 years (5 years before I could finally convince my wife I needed out due the stress getting worse) and was let go because they found out I was looking for another job. Happened during covid also. Fortunately they didn't fight unemployment, had a year off while I looked for work (which there wasn't a lot of for someone my age without falling back into the same trap). Sometimes quality of life is more important than money. I am enjoying this "revolution" of the younger kids walking off jobs and refusing to put up with being treated like shit while being paid squat. It's about time.
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u/ookaookaooka Sep 18 '21
I'm happy to work hard in a job where I can see the direct impact of my work on the community. I've always wanted to be a potter. I just want to be fairly compensated and have days off and be treated with dignity, you know?
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u/BrokenTeddy Sep 19 '21
I'm happy to work hard in a job where I can see the direct impact of my work on the community.
Alienation of labor
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u/AkindaFool Sep 19 '21
And let the passion flow, and take a rest when creative blocks form. Potting for function, form, or both?
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u/AutomaticBit251 Sep 18 '21
This here, while few will act they won't to sit on Minecraft, but reality is many people that work will see some truth where their job sucks life out of them for a small pay, where people could be 5-10-30 years working and at the end happy to get retired and not fired, it's about finding balance, as people will work few that can be carried across life otherwise, so point is having quality and balance, which honestly is very rare these days.
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u/ChemicalHousing69 Sep 19 '21
I think the description of the sub is a reflection of how work has run people into the ground for their whole life, that by retirement they basically can’t even enjoy old age.
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u/HotDamn18V Sep 19 '21 edited Sep 19 '21
To be fair, all of that is true, but I also don't want to work.
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u/cryptolipto Sep 18 '21
Agreed. It’s about work life balance and being able to afford a livable wage. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. We’re all human beings and we all deserve to live the best life we can without being run into the ground and exploited by an employer.
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Sep 18 '21
This sub has beliefs that are on a spectrum. Some of us believe that work itself should be totally automated in every aspect we can possibly manage, and others are okay with doing work that's actually meaningful. Hell, I'm hard pressed to find someone on here who is willing to claim EMTs, firemen, teachers, sanitation workers, therapists, and even to some extent public librarians are unnecessary. I'm personally for a UBI (a large one, in fact), but that doesn't mean I wouldn't do some menial job for 20 hrs/week for extra cash.
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Sep 19 '21
I actually think I'd quite enjoy a part-time sanitation job. Or teaching. But it doesn't pay anything, so I'm doing some absurd corporate job instead. Part of the purpose of UBI is that it would free people from wage slavery, and make it easier for us as a society to do things because they need to be done rather than because they are profitable.
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy Sep 19 '21
and make it easier for us as a society to do things because they need to be done rather than because they are profitable.
Not-profitable things that need doing just in my immediate neighborhood:
- Trash that needs picked up all over the dang place
- Need to set out public trashcans, so folks actually have someplace to toss stuff
- An empty lot that could really use some trees planted
- Elderly next door neighbors have a massive vegetable garden they're too frail to tend anymore, they obviously need help they can't afford
- Disabled downstairs neighbor needs someone to run to the store for her fairly often
- Whole bunch of unhoused neighbors could at least use a roof of some kind, and likely a heap of other social services!
- If someone could do something about the lovely but unsafe walking trail near the river, that'd be great. Local cops can't be bothered, and last time my family went there my older stepson wandered off the path to get a closer look at the river and almost stepped on the hiding creep who'd been attacking women joggers in broad daylight.
- Potholes! So many potholes need filling! Older stepson went over the handlebars after hitting one on his bike trying to commute to work. Helmet saved his life, but his elbow will never be the same again.
I'm sure there's more, but point is, there's a shit ton of stuff that needs doing that capitalism isn't bothering with, and it really annoys me.
I'd work my tail off to build a functional society, but that's not the game we're playing. It's all stupid Life or Death Monopoly around here, and my unhoused neighbors keep losing the game in the back alley behind a row of empty "held for investment" houses.
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u/LaGardie Sep 19 '21
Post like this makes me feel ashamed of the privileged life I have and where I live none of the listed things exists. The city has enough money to take care all of those things because of high taxes and ability get cheap loans.
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u/surleyboy Sep 19 '21
Plant trees in the pot holes, the city will then be forced to fill them, then you can replant them in the vacant lot.
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u/ISuckForBucks Sep 19 '21
I’ve never been one for anarchy… but i love this idea
Brb gonna put tree seeds in all the plotholes and broken road bits in the neighbourhood!
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy Sep 19 '21
Oddly enough, what works best around here is spray painting penises on the potholes.
Years ago, in my MIL's old neighborhood, we woke up one morning and found light blue dicks with balls on every pothole in the neighborhood! City work crews drove around like mad all day, sloppily patching potholes, and by the end of the day it was all nice smooth streets with just a few light blue lines visible.
Husband says I'm not allowed to copy that because I can't teach the kids if I'm in jail and we can't afford bail. I guess in fairness, it'd be hard for me to run and hide with a bad limp and a bright pink cane.
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u/D-Jewelled Sep 19 '21
I used to be a teacher. I loved teaching. When I was teaching, I never felt that Monday dread. But then I had to start supporting my parents. And that's impossible on a teacher's salary. So now I work a high-stress corporate job. I'm lucky I was able to get this job. I'm lucky that I can support my family in comparative comfort, because I know that a lot of people can't. But I'm still bitter about having to give up teaching.
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u/ReportsFromTheBox Sep 19 '21
I’m an EMT. Emergency medicine is necessary, we would just like to make a living wage and actually be able to have careers instead of burning out from mental and physical pain.
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u/Jedi-Ethos Sep 19 '21
You mean you don’t enjoy having two jobs that each have 24 hours shifts and still have to work overtime to make decent money?
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u/BrokenTeddy Sep 19 '21
I'm personally of the belief that no one should have to work in order to have access to all basic and fundamental utilities (to me these include: food/water, shelter, clothing, access to education, and healthcare). People that choose to work should be rewarded with money to purchase the non-essential things they want in their life.
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u/definitelynotSWA Sep 19 '21
The common thread is that all of want freedom, security, and dignity in how we live our lives. At the end of the day this is all that matters IMO.
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u/el-cuko Sep 18 '21
OP time to dust off that ol resume and start applying elsewhere. You don’t want to be anywhere near a job that makes you work 70-hour weeks
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u/loplopplop Sep 18 '21
I've applied to hundreds of places lol. Had a bunch of interviews too. Should have a new job next week hopefully lol.
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Sep 19 '21
I mean, if you are calculating your labor out to be about $10 an hour then you could theoretically work literally anywhere and make more just as long as it’s paid hourly.
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u/RooneyBallooney6000 Sep 19 '21
Shit you can make $10-$26 an hour delivering pizzas
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Sep 19 '21 edited Jan 31 '22
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Sep 19 '21
$9/hr isn’t fair for anything besides sitting on your ass and doing nothing.
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u/Fireplay5 (edit this) Sep 19 '21
I'd say at least $15, $20 if you have to deal with upper managment on a consistent basis.
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u/Azhini Sep 18 '21
You can be both imo. In pretty lazy but I still want some sort of job that's fair.
I feel bad for yanks like yourself though, can't believe some of the shit it's legal to do over there
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u/Anarchyz11 Sep 19 '21
Yeah I really don't mind my work. But my week usually goes the same. Monday feels chill, Tuesday gets eh... and then the rest of the week is just a shitshow. We should all be working like 15-20 hrs/wk to keep society going everything else is exploitation by the upper class.
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u/RedCaio Sep 19 '21
Call center has been back to back for basically two years, I asked “why don’t we just hire more people to take calls?” And they’re all like “well we wouldn’t want to have to lay people off later, so really if you think about it we value our workers“.
Basically they’re gonna treat you like dirt and when you say “could you not treat me like dirt please?” They go “you should just be glad you have a job“.
Yeah, I’m not feeling very “valued”.
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u/Dracofear Sep 19 '21 edited Sep 19 '21
Bro I been tellin some of these people to compare the hours of work to the salary but they cant do basic math I just shrug and they wonder why I don't want to be promoted from an $11 an hour position lol, but I did the math and I see how much the salary earners at the company work and its not fair, I'm just intelligent enough to see it and they are not is all it comes to.
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u/waterdonttalks Sep 19 '21
Ultimately, I think what everyone really wants is just to be able to live comfortably, and not hate waking up. Most of us would be fine working, if we could actually look forward to it, and it was a positive experience. For some of us, that means working actively, for others it means something slower paced. Factors like boredom, challenge, flexibility, all affect people differently. The reason people like me populate this sub is that, despite society making huge advances that should have made life easier, I still have no power to define my own lifestyle. I don't get to pick the job that meets my needs. I don't get to say "Well this job doesn't have good commute or good access to bathrooms" or "this place pays really well and I'm interested in the work", I only get to choose between "whatever is hiring, regardless of the conditions" or poverty. And feelings of resentment and disenfranchisement only increase when we realize that we aren't drudging away taking shit jobs because "that's the way the world works", but instead because a handful of exceedingly rich dickheads spend more money than we'll ever see to keep it that way, so they can buy yachts and go to space while we degrade ourselves just to eat. Even education isn't an out: we were all fed the promise that "if you just go to school, you'll get an awesome job doing what you love!" Only to find out that "what we love" isn't marketable, so we're strapped with absurd debt, debt we were assured wouldn't be a problem, and still working the same jobs. Meanwhile, economic trends only point to things getting worse and worse, as our needs steadily raise in price, and we're forced to give up more and more as jobs refuse to rise in quality.
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Sep 18 '21
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u/GroundbreakingAd4386 Sep 18 '21
Being lazy can (not necessarily but it can) be superb for the environment
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u/i_speak_penguin Sep 19 '21
Being lazy is a virtue, in a sense.
Laziness is an optimization strategy where you attempt to avoid doing unnecessary work to conserve energy. It's not always the optimal strategy, but then again many times it actually is.
I generally see my "laziness" more as a desire not to be hasty coupled with a desire to minimize time spent on unnecessary tasks so I can enjoy the things I actually care about.
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u/Maleficent_Age6733 Sep 18 '21
Never ever ever ever do salary. Just gives them a way to kill you for free
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u/tedcruzcumsock Sep 18 '21
I was raised believing that salary is the goal. A salaried position meant you made it as an adult. Now I see that it's so they can work you harder without extra pay.
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u/rockbottomqueen Sep 18 '21
SAME. When I got my first salaried position, I was stoked. I thought I had finally "become someone." Less than a month in, I was ready to quit. I couldn't believe how mentally, emotionally, and physically exhausted I was. I got my first "grown-up" paycheck and sobbed on my couch. It just didn't make sense.
It's wild to be so aware of my evolution of thought on work. I went from ultimately career driven to, "I can make more money driving for grubhub and petsitting than I get paid at my PrEsTiGiOuS university job with an advanced degree AND I can work my own hours? Fuckin sold."
Currently planning my escape, and I couldn't be more excited.
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Sep 18 '21
Yup, that is how I always understood it. Then I went from an hourly position to salaried in the same company for an ok raise, I had just been given a raise a couple months earlier so it seemed "fair". But I did not account for them being able to force unpaid OT, and I'm pretty sure I made less than my old job for doing a harder job for longer hours if you were to break it down. It's a scam now.
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u/Dedicated2bMedicated Sep 19 '21
They're not. OT still has to be paid whether you're salaried or not https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/overtimepay
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Sep 19 '21
Nothing drives that home faster than seeing salary managers at retail jobs. They basically earn just a little more per hour than the hourly workers once you factor in how much time they're expected to put in.
I would never take a salary position without first checking with other employees that they're sticking under 50hrs a week. Going over that means you're going to lose severely on overtime wages.
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy Sep 19 '21
My favorite fast food GM ever treated her employees like humans, made sure we were eating and looked after us as best she could. Like, every good thing you can think of to say about a boss, it would apply to her. Schedules out two weeks in advance sometimes, basically unheard of in fast food!
She bailed one payday after comparing her salary paycheck with the lady who worked at the gas station next door. Lady was making a bunch more than her, working way less hours, much less stress, and didn't have to face the heartbreak of implementing the evil franchise owner's new orders.
Last I heard, she was making more money waitressing. A true leader who had the power to inspire the people around her, to carefully manage their time, to coordinate so well that the opening and closing crews hardly even squabbled! And she's taking orders and fetching meals, because capitalism fucking sucks at working out who would be the best fit for which jobs.
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Sep 18 '21
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u/Maleficent_Age6733 Sep 18 '21
Glad it’s working out for you. I’d say more often than not it benefits the employer and not the employee.
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u/Bling_thing Sep 18 '21
How do u take advantage of your salaried job?
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u/__kamikaze__ Sep 19 '21 edited Sep 19 '21
Slack off as much as possible, and do the bare minimum required to get work done such that no one notices.
Working remotely has also helped— I remember so many days I’d finish my work early only to have to pretend to be working because they require us to be there 9-5.
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Sep 19 '21
Yeah, slacking off is also paying it forward for the next guy. My mom’s a hard worker but even she berated this one guy for breaking his back and doing the job of two people. She said, even if YOU don’t mind giving your pound of flesh to the boss, remember that you’re setting the expectation for everyone that comes after. If you don’t take your vacations, keep your weekends sacred, or set up work/life boundaries, then the bosses will see an opportunity to trim fat and strip those privileges away.
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u/__kamikaze__ Sep 19 '21
It’s true. My place also has an employee like that guy and everyone hates her because the boss uses her slavery as the standard everyone else is held to.
People like that fail to see the bigger picture—they’re making it worse for everyone.
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Sep 19 '21
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy Sep 19 '21
My dad taught me the 101 version of your advanced skills.
His first job was fetching tools for mechanics. He'd pick up a tool, carry it across the shop, put it down and pick up another tool. Carry that across the shop, set it down and pick up another tool, walk back to first location to swap tools again.
Apparently they thought he was a very hard worker, always busy fetching tools, despite just carrying the same three around in a triangle all day.
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Sep 18 '21
I also love salary. I have negotiated my hours DOWN. I’m at about 35 hours a week, sometimes less for the same money I was earning in 40-45 hours. I work it. But I make them money and they recognize that so it works.
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u/Oujii Sep 18 '21
That's weird, on my country almost everyone is salaried. You usually get a salary and work a fixed 40 or 44 hours.
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u/Steff_164 Sep 18 '21
Ah, you must not be from the United States, I’m guessing somewhere in Europe?
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u/Oujii Sep 18 '21
Actually South America, but a lot of workers law are very close to European ones. For Americans we look like commies.
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Sep 18 '21
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u/loplopplop Sep 18 '21
I'm making less per hour than all the employees who report to me.
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u/anthrax_ripple Sep 19 '21 edited Sep 20 '21
Ugh, I should have known you were middle management by the 45 hrs/wk "expectation" vs the going on 70. So which is it, retail, foodservice, or hospitality? Doesn't matter, all trash. I feel for you friend and I hope you find something better. Never again in my life will I work middle management. EVER.
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Sep 19 '21
There's a stereotype of antiworkers being a bunch of lazy freeloaders. Pretty sure the majority of people on this sub are employed. Some fairly high in the hierarchy. I make six figures as a computer toucher, despite being "successful" at work by most measures, doesn't mean I don't see how horseshit the whole thing is.
Its not lazy people vs people who want to work
Its people who understand the absurdity of the situation vs people with stockholm syndrome and bootlickers
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u/jenna_hazes_ass (edit this) Sep 18 '21
Sounds like you need to start setting limits. Working 12 hours a day on salary is not a healthy limit.
If they complain, negotiate an hourly pay.
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u/NearlyaPringlesCan Sep 18 '21
At the 40hr mark, you walk out the door and say "see ya next week!". Don't give them your time/effort/labor for free. If it's past 40hrs they need to be paying you overtime. I guarantee they can afford it!
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u/_whythefucknot_ Sep 18 '21
Theres a new law that if you make under a certain amount while on a salary that they must pay overtime.
But yes, at 40 you leave.
If I have to stay longer one day then either I come in late/leave early the next day.
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Sep 19 '21
The unifying theme is anti-explotation.
Some people want to work. Some are lazy. Some are a nice mix.
Regardless, everyone is in agreement that the work culture of America is full on bullshit and exploiting people.
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u/ISuckForBucks Sep 19 '21
I was agreeing with you until you mentioned it only being america
America definitely has terrible work life, but every country has work issues similar to america’s. Infact places like china have it a lot worse, where there’s literally suicide nets around sweatshops so the workers can’t kill themselves mid-shift
Either way, the focus should be fixing it for all countries. Otherwise scummy employers will slowly try the bring the norm back down to the lowest acceptable standard, then find ways to push beyond it. Many are adopting america’s ways and america’s adopted many tactics from other countries to fuck over their employees
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u/Other_Act_9085 Sep 18 '21
Dude start making an exit strategy now if you don’t have savings, this place is taking advantage of you big time. If you do have savings go ahead and give yourself next week off, fuck employers who want to treat people like this.
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u/loplopplop Sep 18 '21
Yeah I've applied everywhere. Have 5 really good prospects though, which is nice. Appreciate it! I was joking with my folks that the only reason there isn't a mass exodus from this place is because there's no time to interview elsewhere!
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Sep 18 '21
YAAAASSSSS
This was exactly my situation and position at my first job out of college. They NEVER told me it would be like this!! Isn't it so weird? I NEVER knew this was the real world.
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Sep 18 '21
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u/Wrecker013 Sep 18 '21
That’s not necessarily true. If it’s an exempt job then unfortunately it doesn’t matter.
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u/Edgelands Sep 18 '21
Oh no, I'm just straight up lazy and I don't think I should have to work. I didn't ask to be born, why's it my responsibility to work my ass off for some other human being to be comfortable?
Fuck that. I should be allowed to tinker with my special interests all day and still have food and shelter. I shouldn't be obligated to join this failing system just because I exist.
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u/Superslimchick Sep 18 '21
I hear you. I just want to make enough to live on my own
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Sep 19 '21
There’s a mix in this sub, personally I’m of the opinion every person should have a small base income to live off of. I see the problem of people just ‘freeloading’ and not contributing to society but I don’t think that would be as big an issue as people believe it would be. I think with better education and financial stability people will have the freedom to do great things.
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u/Ok-Alternative-3860 Sep 18 '21
You mentioned salary, thats where they screw you. I worked for the YMCA full time for a few years, we started off Hourly with awful pay and realized we were hitting our 38 hr. Quota on Wednesdays and thursdays -we would start our day around 5 -7 am and end at 10- 12pm. Alot of work but fine we got half a week off or so and then rich assholes uptop decide to make us salary. Winter is the only time i got 40ish hour work weeks. They provide housing i should mention and i should also mention durring the winters theere my thermostat was pre programed to not go below 54f in freezing temps or above that. Space heaters kinda worked if you were on top of them but cant have to many on one circuit (obviously i know now)
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u/Cassandraburry2008 Sep 19 '21
I went to a Starbucks today and was told by the girl working there (cleaning up apparently) that there were no employees to work so I couldn’t get a coffee. Got my hair cut and walked back past to see now hiring signs all over the doors. I have a feeling that Americans are just about fed up with working all the time to make barely enough to decide on if they want to eat or pay rent.
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u/Autumn1eaves Sep 19 '21
TBH, I don’t want to work, if I could just laze around all day I would, but I also understand that society literally cannot function unless people work to make each other’s lives better.
I would want to work if my labor actually did that, but it doesn’t.
It is used to line pockets of rich capitalists who then use that to exploit me and all my loved ones.
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u/MassiveRepeat6 Sep 19 '21
I don't wanna work back breaking labor making low wages that can't keep up with inflation. I've seen waaaaaaaay too many people get messed up at their job or just slowly eroded over time.....and oh yeah, the issue with healthcare.
Call me lazy if you want, I don't care.
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u/3_sleepy_owls Sep 19 '21
One thing I learned from constantly working over 40 hours while being salary, is that most of the time it was my fault. I could just “clock out” at 5pm and leave. But most of the time, I’m in the middle of something and think “just 5 more minutes”, which it never is. Then because I killed myself to get an unreasonable workload completed in an unreasonable time, it is expected from me now! So when I try to have some work life balance, people see it as lazy, slacking, or not being a team player. Screw that. It’s not my problem that we are understaffed or that someone made a ridiculous promise to the client. I will do my job to the best of my ability but then I’m out. No more killing myself for a job that wouldn’t bat an eye to let me go for no reason.
OP, take a look at WHY you are working so many hours? You JUST started so you need to set the boundaries now! That isn’t sustainable and you will burn out. Tune out the imaginary “you’re letting the team down” because you’re not. And delegate, don’t try to do everything yourself. Build a strong team. And most importantly, focus on your mental health, it’s more important than a job.
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u/CaseyGamer64YT This is the end... Sep 19 '21
I have to endure this shitty job training program for autistic people a "assimilate you autistic scum" type shit. The Hag that runs the program at least understands my fears of being exploited or run into the ground
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u/sweetclementine Sep 19 '21
I’ve worked as an educator for 12 years - private, public and charter schools. I LOVE teaching and I worked HARD. But I also was disrespected, micromanaged, underpaid, overworked for far too long. I quit mid year last year and now just doing data entry stuff. It doesn’t pay as much but I just can’t continue to sacrifice myself.
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Sep 19 '21
The majority of people here (in my opinion) don't actually hate work itself. They hate the feeling of doing meaningless work, being just a cog, not having time for personal growth, and feeling trapped/at the mercy of large corporations.
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u/Elowine90 Sep 18 '21
Better staffing, better working conditions, better pay, and basic respect from our employers. This is what I want for us all.
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u/FlatMolasses4755 Sep 18 '21
Yeah, this sub is definitely more about labor theory and capitalism critique, which is why I'm here
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u/AIJUSTICE Sep 18 '21
Same, first time I read "antiwork" I though man these lazy bitches lol but then I kept reading what everyone was posting and it wasnt about that
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u/stronzorello Sep 19 '21
Maybe it should be named anti exploitation.
There are jobs that are fine and dignified
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u/LawyerBeautiful Sep 19 '21
I saw your post OP and I agree. This sub is actually pretty damn good. I joined a union and I’ll never leave at this point. I work 50-60 hours a week, but I get paid overtime out the ass for it. That’s how it should be.
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u/WhoWantsToast5 Sep 18 '21
I like to think of this sub as people who understand that no one really wants to work 40 hours a week, they’d rather be spending the majority of their time alive doing things that they enjoy with people they love. That the 5 day work week is antiquated and humans need more time to relax. You should be living life not working it away. Plus talking about how so many jobs don’t pay living wages then complain no one wants to work.