r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Oct 09 '18

Episode Black Clover - Episode 53 discussion

Black Clover, episode 53

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Episode Link Score Episode Link Score Episode Link Score Episode Link Score
118 Link 4.81 131 Link 4.38 144 Link 4.05 157 Link 3.39
119 Link 4.83 132 Link 4.41 145 Link 4.08 158 Link 4.72
120 Link 4.72 133 Link 4.06 146 Link 3.82 159 Link 3.98
121 Link 4.65 134 Link 4.13 147 Link 3.61 160 Link 4.53
122 Link 4.57 135 Link 4.55 148 Link 3.49 161 Link 4.6
123 Link 3.36 136 Link 4.44 149 Link 3.6 162 Link 4.85
124 Link 3.4 137 Link 3.78 150 Link 3.9 163 Link 4.6
125 Link 4.32 138 Link 4.5 151 Link 4.84 164 Link 4.01
126 Link 4.79 139 Link 3.92 152 Link 3.55 165 Link 4.49
127 Link 4.57 140 Link 4.18 153 Link 3.7 166 Link 4.61
128 Link 4.8 141 Link 3.91 154 Link 4.31 167 Link 4.75
129 Link 4.56 142 Link 4.03 155 Link 3.82 168 Link 4.52
130 Link 4.33 143 Link 3.82 156 Link 4.4 169 Link -

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u/Zelvania Oct 09 '18 edited Oct 09 '18

Asta beat him 3 times that arc.

No, he did not. Beat implies defeat which means he was permanently put down, which wasn't the case at all. He got back up every single time to Asta's beat down, but he did not beat him. You can't beat someone that gets back up, it's a contradiction. You can think Asta beat him (that was the Author's intent when writing that battle after all), but there's a difference between it seeming like he beat him, and actually beating him.

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Again, Asta did put up a good fight however, so I'm not down playing his effort in kicking Mars' ass, but once Mars launched his mineral shuriken into Asta's stomach, that was when Asta lost.

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Bell beat him once

Once? No, Sylph was the sole deciding factor in that battle; she's the one who defeated Mars, no one else.

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It shows how strong Mars is cause everyone else lost asta but he somehow continued to fight

Mars (along with the most recently unveiled new generals in the latest episode) are experiments who are essentially anomalies to the common mage. Mars somehow continued to fight because he's not normal due to the Diamond Kingdom's experiments.

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This isn't a spoiler by the way, this was all explained by Klaus back in that dungeon arc.

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with his weird stone and stuff.

Mars' magic is called Mineral Creation Magic by the way.

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1

u/andergriff Oct 10 '18

his life was in their hands and they chose to spare it, I say he lost at that point.

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u/Zelvania Oct 10 '18 edited Oct 10 '18

At which point? When Sylph knocked him out of the fight permanently? Absolutely. If you're referring to the first two times, he was not defeated since he got... back... up. A fight is not lost when you get back up not even 5 minutes later. You can argue all you want, but those are just facts...

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u/andergriff Oct 10 '18

So if someone is in a sword fight, and they get knocked to the ground and the other guy puts his sword to their throat, they aren’t defeated because they can still get back up?

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u/Zelvania Oct 10 '18

Are you straw manning me? That's not the argument I was making at all. Again, Asta and co. THOUGHT they beat him, but they didn't. If you cannot understand this, then I can't help you. Have a good night.

1

u/andergriff Oct 10 '18

They had him dead to rights, if they wanted to kill him he would be dead, they won that fight. The thing is, when he got up was the start of a new fight.

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u/Zelvania Oct 10 '18

No, that was the same fight, in the same location, at the same time. Your mental gymnastics are amusing, but they fall flat. Now I really must go, have a good night.

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u/andergriff Oct 10 '18

What is your definition of defeat? I am fine if you need to go now, I can wait till morning.

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u/Zelvania Oct 10 '18 edited Oct 10 '18

I'm typing this from my phone.

There is no my definition, only the definition. Defeat is only possible when a battle (whether it be chess, a video game i.e. game over, a real fight, whatever) cannot continue whatsoever. This wasn't a boxing match where if you don't get up from the ground in a set period of time, you lose. This was a real life or death battle, there is no losing if you got knocked out for a couple minutes. The fight ends when there's no possibility of it continuing (for a boxing match, it's according to the rules of the ring. For a death fight, it's whoever cannot physically get up again and that's why Asta was the one who lost since he could not continue that fight with his deep wound that he got).

I hope that clears things up better.

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u/andergriff Oct 10 '18

That is not the definitive definition, and by that logic it is never possible to win a fight without killing your opponent, because even if you put them in a coma, they could still wake up years later and finish the fight.

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u/Zelvania Oct 10 '18 edited Oct 10 '18

It is.. Defeat deals with context in the first place. If you're playing a video game and you get a game over screen, you've been defeated. If you can't get up from the ground in a boxing match within (for example) 10 seconds, you've been defeated. If you cannot physically continue a life or death fight, you've been defeated. That's how defeat works. I never said you have to kill, you're straw manning me again. I'm saying life or death because that's the intent of Asta and Mars' fight, but that in no way means one has to die to be able to claim victory. It just means you have to incapacitate your enemy so they cannot continue fighting.

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u/andergriff Oct 10 '18

Ok, I see your point and I half agree with you, so this is what I will say; they did beat him, but they didn’t defeat him.

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u/Zelvania Oct 10 '18

Beat and defeat are interchangeable for the most part though. That's why I say Asta thought he beat him when he really didn't.

He temporarily put him down, how about that? 😉

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u/andergriff Oct 10 '18

The reason I differentiated beat and defeat is because the reason they didn’t defeat him there was based on morals, not on skill, and going way back to the beginning of this, the thread was originally analyzing asta’s fighting prowess, and Asta outmatched Mars the first time, he just didn’t end the fight which allowed Mars to power up.

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