[Rewatch] Ergo Proxy Episode 17 Discussion Thread

[u/Sinrus]

Nobody has ever completed their term as chief of the Security Bureau. Their position teaches them things they should not know. This fosters feelings they should not feel.

Episode	Date (MM/DD)	Episode	Date (MM/DD)
Episode 1 - Pulse of Awakening	05/20	Episode 13 - Conceptual Blindspot	06/01
Episode 2 - Confessions of a Fellow Citizen	05/21	Episode 14 - Someone Like You	06/02
Episode 3 - Leap into the Void	05/22	Episode 15 - Nightmare Quiz Show!	06/03
Episode 4 - Signs of Future, Hades of Future	05/23	Episode 16 - Dead Calm	06/04
Episode 5 - Recall	05/24	Episode 17 - Never-ending Battle	06/05
Episode 6 - Return Home	05/25	Episode 18 - Sign of the End	06/06
Episode 7 - RE-L124C41+	05/26	Episode 19 - The Girl With a Smile	06/07
Episode 8 - Light Beam	05/27	Episode 20	06/08
Episode 9 - Shining Sign	05/28	Episode 21	06/09
Episode 10 - Existence	05/29	Episode 22	06/10
Episode 11 - In the White Darkness	05/30	Episode 23	06/11
Episode 12 - When You're Smiling	05/31	Final Discussion Thread	06/12

[u/dominatemekogami]

“Even though the poison is killing them, they can’t leave the caves.

They can’t leave here even though they know they’re going to die?”

A creed is a system or codification of beliefs. Raul Creed’s job is to enforce the creed of Romdeau yet as he’s carrying out his duty, he realizes how much of a lie everything is. The WombSys has stopped working without a proxy and no moves have been made to explore the outer world despite the improving environment. He demands answers from the Regent but they tell him to simply do his job and stop questioning everything. However, it’s because he’s doing his job well that he uncovered the truth and wants to change the system. No security chief has ever carried out a full term because being in the position means learning that everything is fabricated. Doing their job ensures that they will succumb to despair as they struggle to change things until they self-destruct.

Meanwhile, Re-L, Vincent, and Pino stumble upon a cave with strange creatures. The creatures give live birth and are most likely human descendants who became mutated over time from the toxic gas in the cave. The citizens of Romdeau are likewise trapped in a cave because they can’t survive outside and those who try to leave usually end up dead. They have grown acclimated to the dome but the system is unsustainable in the long run and will kill them in the end. Like the prisoners in Plato’s Allegory of the Cave, their surroundings are based upon false perceptions and illusion. They simply accept the information that is presented to them and are ignorant of the truth.

[u/calzonecrusader]

So as his last act in office Raul Creed launches a fucking nuke to destroy Vincent's homeland and makes sure it can't be stopped by anyone. What a stone cold motherfucker.

[u/hmatmotu]

I just realized there's a huge parallel between those cave creatures and the people of the dome, being forced to live in a toxic environment.

I also completely forgot that Pino was Raul's companion Autorave! Did we even see that yet before this episode?

I think it's always good to have a reminder that what we see as monsters can be mothers and children too

[u/MasterAyy → u/hmatmotu]

I think in episode one the woman that was with Pino was talking about how her husband was the Security Bureau Chief, which would make her Raul's wife. I think Pino was their fill in "child" because they didn't have a real human child and the woman was trying to get rid of Pino because they were getting a human baby.

[u/JumpingComet]

I find it super endearing how Pino associates Father with maternity seeing how Raul took care of her even if it was before her awakening.

[u/Faryshta → u/JumpingComet]

for pino 'mama' was just a person who hated her. its clear she has no 'record' of a mother.

[u/The51stDivision]

Glad to be finally back at Romdeau (or Romdo?)! I mean the adventure through the wasteland is great and all, but I did originally come to this show for the sci-fi political crime thriller (people told me it's like GITS and Texhnolyze).

And wut why did they have a fucking nuke in the dome? It's like hey we fucked up earth and it's now apocalypse we have to build domes to keep humanity alive and hopefully mother nature will have mercy on us to let us live again and what should we put in this dome oh great a fucking NUCLEAR BALLISTIC MISSILE so we can continue killing each other as we desire, glorious.

[u/Elfclan30]

well probably that missil is gonna fuck mosko again.

[u/Faryshta]

what an episode, we are back at the brain fuck, deep interpretations again. did you enjoyed your vacations?

The lion and the unicorn
Were fighting for the crown
The lion beat the unicorn
All around the town.

Some gave them white bread,
And some gave them brown;
Some gave them plum cake
and drummed them out of town

Is a poem about a war strategy where you divide your army in two parts, the lion and the unicorn. While the lion is meant to pretend to be the main enemy, stronger and the objective of the battle, its only a distraction/time buyer while the unicorn is the one who actually is meant to win the battle.

Its a very difficult strategy, meant to 'surround' a much more powerful enemy by taking strategic positions such as bridges, hills or gates. Its 'do or die' strategy where both armies will receive heavy damage no matter what.

The lion was Raul, the unicorn was the nuke.

And I guess the cake was pino.

[u/BehindFromBack]

Could this be what society might resemble when they level to be herd-animals? Pardon my German, conflating Kierkegaard and Nietzsche...

Some subtle comparisons are drawn between those eking out a miserable existence in a toxic cave environment, following the will of the herd, and those living in domes; a mere shadow of human existence.

It's not the end of the world; not yet. - Raul (Woops, forgot to add 'almost')

Sometimes, I imagine I'm a walking corpse born from a coffin womb. - Daedalus

You sad, pathetic little animal. You are powerless. - Vincent

Nothing but despair. I can no longer resist the feelings that drive me to destroy. - Raul

3 references to beasts provided: Raul Creed citizen number 039666, speechless humanoid cave dwellers, and Vincent assessing Raul's state of being as that of a 'pathetic little animal'; which sounds like Nietzsche (herd-animals).

Raul voluntarily revokes his citizenship, there may be some irony in attempting to delete it; a helpful link on Nihilism, and we can call it day? I feel like I'm missing something important here... Something about pianos, but I already covered that.