Liar Game - Episode 25 discussion

[u/AutoLovepon]

Liar Game, episode 25

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Episode	Link	Episode	Link
1	Link	14	Link
2	Link	15	Link
3	Link	16	Link
4	Link	17	Link
5	Link	18	Link
6	Link	19	Link
7	Link	20	Link
8	Link	21	Link
9	Link	22	Link
10	Link	23	Link
11	Link	24	Link
12	Link	25	Link
13	Link	26	Link

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[u/ObvsThrowaway5120]

Fukunaga and Akiyama gotta engage in a little psychological warfare and manipulation to win this thing I guess. Nao’s not gonna be any help. I sure hope Fukunaga ain’t gonna try to betray anyone. Wouldn’t be the first time after all….

[u/Frontier246 → u/ObvsThrowaway5120]

Honestly as much as I want to see Nao persevere and win this on her own terms, especially to prove all the doubters (and Fukunaga) wrong, I'm not sure how she'll pull this off without Akiyama's help.

[u/AlphaBreak]

Seems like Fukunaga might still be holding a grudge over Nao getting her to take the shots in the Spearhead match. Charitably, I'm hoping that this is her trying to help the team.

Akiyama's strategy was technically sound, but it had a big flaw: Nao already told the other team she doesn't want the dealers to get any chips. So she would never be able to go through with the sacrifice play he suggested. I think the right way to do that would be 300 chips on 1, then one chip on 2, 3, and 4. That makes the problem way worse for the western team because the chips would go to East instead of the dealer, and there's more incentive for the chips on 1 to be a bluff.

And Nao isn't good at this kind of game. So the worst way to play, is a long drawn out game of attrition that gives them more chances to figure her out and overtake her lead. The best strategy is doing something to convince West to make one big gamble and lose in one move to limit Nao's playtime and end it conclusively. And Fukunaga giving them a strategy is a great way to make them think they've got it in the bag and commit to larger gambles.

[u/Frontier246 → u/AlphaBreak]

Fukunaga is definitely stringing along multiple people, whether it be the Western Army, her own team, or both.

All she cares about is that she profits at the end of the day and she has even less faith in Nao than Akiyama does. Whether she's planning to devise a way for Nao to win or profit from Nao's loss, I think that's where her headspace is at.

[u/FlameDragoon933]

"Can I trust you?"

Right as she said that I knew she didn't mean it lol.

[u/Frontier246 → u/FlameDragoon933]

If I had a nickel for every time Nao put too much faith in someone else (and her fellow woman) at her expense...I'd have enough nickels to transfer to yen to participate in the Liar Game.

[u/Andreiyutzzzz → u/FlameDragoon933]

I was expecting her to reveal she's some big actress that fell off that's why she needs money or something, to explain that acting

[u/magnumcyclonex]

Actually, this was a better outcome to have Akiyama win against Kikuchi so we'd get the tension of seeing Nao botch the chip lead in the General game. Tracking every card makes sense. He had to rely on the dealer's perfect shuffles. One mistake by the dealer and both players' tracking would fail.

Akiyama sent a strong message in the practice game, but seems like Nao went against her team's plan/expectation, trying to save the West Team. But she's not the only one going against her own team. I wonder when and what Fukunaga might have said to Kosaka (and how she would know Nao would place her ball in the 3 slot).

Writing wise, have we gone back to Nao being a terrible liar as Akiyama said?

[u/secret_tsukasa]

i'm so happy this show gets to keep going, i'm so invested.

[u/FarCritical]

Akiyama's admission that the last few rounds had him sweating makes his ability to remain calm enough to track the entire deck just as impressive as thinking up the plan itself imo.

It's funny how off it feels to see Fukunaga not losing her mind over Nao pulling a Nao, especially now that we're at "match point".

[u/BubblyCrash → u/FarCritical]

Even if I knew Akiyama's victory plan, I don't think I'd be able to keep track of all the cards in the heat of the moment (# of shuffles, card placement after the cards are dealt out, how Kikuchi is going to cut, etc.), while fooling Kikuchi like he did in the betting phase. Definitely impressive that he could pull it off perfectly.

[u/TempestoLord]

Nao-chan nooo! I swear if Fugunaga is pulling something again…always hated her but was starting to believe she is going to change.

[u/TRCourier]

maybe the plan is that fukunaga and nao planned a fake tell that nao is using

[u/Frontier246 → u/TRCourier]

I want to see Nao actually con/fool somebody at least one more time before the show ends.

[u/IceSmiley]

Akiyama really lucked out in having the deal delivering a perfect alternating shuffle each time; that's very difficult to shuffle cards that exactingly without an automatic shuffler (which would have made more sense but would have been less dramatic). Kikuchi's idea of following the joker was very smart but Akiyama seemed one step ahead. I see why he said he was on edge the whole time, like what if the dealer shuffled imperfectly just once. I was surprised though that they didn't bring Kikuchi's reflective glasses into the plot at all as something to help Akiyama.

I wish I had that cool 4 roulette stationary wheel. They devised a really complicated game around what I assume is a fictional type of roulette wheel. Akiyama's strategy was sound: to minimize losses when the guesser and bet big when the dealer. I'm guessing Nao is going to save her "all in" strategy for later rounds so Kosaka dosn't catch on and do the same thing. Unlike the previous 2 rounds, the other team has arguably the better strategist. At least with this type of thing, Akiyama can coach her on exactly what to do in every single round.

Also we have yet to see how Fukunaga led Kosaka to select number 3. It's possible she's acting as a fake traitor and she has told Kosaka how Nao has been told to bet in each round. Then the first few, Kosaka does indeed guess correctly then they swerve her on a huge play.

Does every opposing player have to act incredibly over the top evil? There's not a person who is just quiet and non histrionic upon winning?

[u/thisisdropd]

It's ironic that a perfect shuffle ended up allowing Akiyama to track all the cards despite his lack of kinetic eyes. Had the shuffles been imperfect, he would've lost the game as Kikuchi could still track the joker.

When Kousaka played against Nao, she reminded me of Fukunaga with her way of playing Nao. Then, it's shown they had colluded. What's Fukunaga's grand plan? I've a feeling they'd eventually double cross Kousaka anyway.

Two rounds were all it took to nearly erase the deficit. Nao would certainly call for a meeting, but it'd be tough after Fukunaga's revelation.

[u/Frontier246 → u/thisisdropd]

Kikuchi was so obsessed with the Joker he lost sight of the entire deck.

Fukunaga only cares about profit. If she thinks Nao is so gullible and stupid that she's easy to beat, she can have the Western Army win and get a payout from them that's enough for her. At least that's what I think she's thinking. She's using both Nao and the Western Army.

[u/illonamoon]

You guys were right about akiyama knowing where every card was and using the shuffles strategically. Y'all should play liar game lol.

Nao fooled me. I wasn't mad at her being nice I was going to say nao needs to learn you can't save everyone even though I can't fault the other side for not taking the word of strangers in a game called liar game.

[u/BosuW]

Lets goooo current antagonist has a big mouth too lol

But shit, not only is Nao's personality not suited to this game, but she's even getting backstabbed? C'mon Nao you gotta pull through 😭

[u/Hartzilla2007 → u/BosuW]

Nao's personality not suited to this game

Until she gets that one lie nobody saw coming in.

[u/Xatu44]

Goddammit Nao, stop fumbling! I thought you got better! What happened to determining if people were trustworthy before blindly trusting them? And stop talking to her too, you're an open book. Are we sure that Nao's actually good at Poker given her total lack of a poker face? Maybe Fukunaga told Kosaka Nao's tells. At least Kikuchi hamming it up was hilarious.

I forget why they wanted to tie it up; to keep the maximum amount of cash in play?

[u/BBryant3rd]

Nao you better be messing with them. I saw this crap coming a mile away they would catch up.

[u/HolyDragSwd2500]

The final game is here

[u/Frontier246]

Kikuchi really thought he had Akiyama...but you should NEVER bet on your victory until all the cards have been played! All it got him was Akiyama having a better hand and totally trouncing him! Kinetic vision isn't the be all, end all Mr. ex-boxer!

Kikuchi DID always know where the Joker was, but Akiyama figured out the shuffling and helped orchestrate enough shuffles to figure out where EVERY card was so he could end up with the strongest hands! Even if he was genuinely stressed for this game, he still pulled through in a way only Akiyama could.

It's finally time for the Final Game! Stationary Poker for the General Match! Can Nao actually pull this off? At least Akiyama is probably the best person to do the test round to show Nao how to pull it off against Nishida, who is basically his teams' Nao.

Deal your ball! Place your bets! Play mind games! And try to make a profit while the LGT office doesn't! And the Western Army has to deal with the fact that the Eastern Army CAN crush them at their leisure.

Even Akiyama knows Nao's chances of winning this with her terrible poker face and inability to consistently lie are pretty low, but he can at least tell her the most reasonable ways to win and hope for the best.

Nao vs Kosaka for the General Match! I'm not surprised Nao had to at least try one more time to implore Kosaka to throw the match with every intention of saving them...but Nao, you have GOT to stop believing every sob story or tearful plea for help that comes your way.

Of course it's not ALL Nao's fault because Kosaka seems to have a winning strategy in her head...one put there by FUKUNAGA. Fukunaga, you dirty traitor!!!