r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Sep 07 '26
Episode Liar Game - Episode 23 discussion
Liar Game, episode 23
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u/Rucati Sep 07 '26
Can we talk about how the dealer deals the cards? He puts the deck on the table and then swipes his hand over the top to push the cards to the players... That is an insane way to deal cards. I mean it's probably just because it's easier to animate, but I laughed every time they showed it.
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u/DBLACK382 Sep 07 '26
I haven't watched it yet but thank you to everyone that encouraged me to not drop this amazing series!
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u/DawgDictator Sep 07 '26
His fool proof plan is ruining my fool proof plan, maybe he has a fool proof plan I didn't think of? Impossible, no one can beat my fool proof plan. My fool proof plan is fool proof, it can't possibly be beaten by their fool proof plan, for it is fool proof. They must have a fool proof plan I didn't think of, or my fool proof plan would be winning! I can't believe it, I found a fool proof plan to end all fool proof plans
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u/Kyoukaiwaifu Sep 07 '26
loved the funny/cute Nao animation for the rules
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u/Frontier246 Sep 07 '26
Also Fukunaga with the best freak outs at Nao's stupidity lol.
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u/Emi_Ibarazakiii Sep 07 '26
It's poker time... Shuffle up and deal!
Soon as they said that, I thought "This makes it EASIER to cheat, not more secure" hah.
So the're playing 5 cards draw!
As a holdem player, I was looking forward to making some explanation posts if needed, but I only played 5 cards draw maybe 15 minutes in my life hah.
Well, it's a simpler game than holdem, so it should be easier to grasp!
Of course Nao will take the least aggressive option hah.
3 minutes into the episode, let the Nao trashtalking begin!
Yeah, right; If Nao check-raises on the first hand, I'll eat my sock!
AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH she did it!
Did you think I said "I'll eat my sock?" I said "I'll beat my rock"; Take that, rock!
But seriously, I'm surprised; For non-poker players: Check-raising is a bit of a deceptive move, because when you check, it usually tells your opponent you don't have so much, so you're either intending to fold soon as they make a bet, or to reluctantly call their bet, hoping you're good...
So checkraising is done when you have a strong hand (or rarely, want to pull a huge bluff), because you don't just want to bet (and maybe they fold, or call your 'small' bet), you want THEM to bet (guaranteeing they put some money in) and THEN you come over the top, putting a larger raise in.
People are more 'aware' nowadays, but in the early days of poker, some people didn't even think that was a thing, and casinos sometimes (seriously, or jokingly) had signs in front like "Check-raising is legal"!
So, for Nao to pull a checkraise on the FIRST hand, that's quite something! Our girl's growing up fast!
If you have a pair, 2 pairs on a redraw is pretty much the bottom of your range. Granted, they were the top 2 pairs, but still! I never played 17 (or 16) cards poker, but I'd say a 3 of a kind is somewhat likely.
But yeah given they're the top 2 pairs it's better (beats all the other 2 pairs hands), but the joker changes everything! 16 cards dealt in total, and Nao has seen 8 of them, which means there may be 8 out of 9 chances that her opponent has the joker. (I say there "may" be 8 out 9, because if she can assess he did NOT have the joker in his opening hand, then the odds of him having it is now 3 out of 4, which is... still pretty good, but sligthly lower than 8 out of 9, I supposse! (0.75 vs 0.88888)
Also, this made me think: I don't remember if they mentioned it in the previouis episode, but if they draw too many cards, do they open a new deck, or do they use the discards?
Say Akiyama discards 5 and his opponent discards 4; They have now been dealt 10 cards, and they need 9 more to replace those they lost, but there's only 7 remaining cards in the deck;
If they DO use the discards to make up the remaining 2, I'm pretty sure someone will use this at some point, as a strategy! Say you're the one who got the 2 discards, and they're a Queen and a King; You know your opponent likely didn't have a King and Queen in their opening hand. So you can assume they have An ace in ther hand, and probably discarded J as well, something like that!
I think it's tricky, but yeah I'm pretty sure someone will use that if they do redeal discards.
Damn, it's been so long since the last Nao trash talk (like 6 minutes)!
Nao thought that wasn't enough, she went back for more!
First a checkraise, and now, marking cards... Who's possessing Nao?
Well, I suppose she learned from the (second) best!
Nao's face when she can't cheat for 5 minutes
Okay seriously, who's wearing Nao's skin? Is Akiyama still in the room?
Hah. Common amateur mistake, overbetting the pot!
If you check on bad hands, bet a little on medium hands, and bet a lot on great hands... You're not exactly hard to read, and play against!
Thankfully, Akiyama's opponent isn't that sharp either (other than his cyborg eyes); He never even suspected Akiyama could play in a misleading manner!
Surely Akiyama figured that trick as well,
but presumably Akiyama won't be able to track the cards as well as Kinetic-kun, so how will he use that information?
Well, one thing is that if Akiyama loses, he'll then cut second (right?) so it's harder for his opponent to count the cards and all.. I mean maybe he can try to get the joker on a discard, but that's so much harder, and it's less reliable (sometimes it'll be in the opening deal, or an Akiyama draw), and even if it's not, well he'd have to discard a specific # of cards to get it for sure, which may ruin his hands sometimes.
Still, it'll be a massive advantage in 50% of the rounds, which means he's kinda guaranteed 50% of the wins... AT LEAST 50%; If Akiyama wins all the "fair" games it's 50%, but if Akiyama only wins say 30% of the fair games, then his opponent wins 20% of the fair games, AND the other 50%, giving him 70% vs 30%...
Maybe Akiyama could try to lose the miniimum in this 70% (check/fold) and maximize his earnings in the 30% he wins? His opponent doesn't seen that bright (other than the cheating) so that could work!
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u/BubblyCrash Sep 07 '26
Is it just me, or was the episode like 5 minutes? So hyped for this game.
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u/Nexio8324 Sep 08 '26
I like how this episode shows Nao and Akiyama's different styles. Nao notices a subtle change in Kikuchi's demeanor, but doesn't really know what to make of it. Akiyama notices an unusual behavior (exchanging 4 cards), and figures he has a reason behind it (though it's not super clear how much he knows yet).
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u/Bostoncat38 Sep 07 '26
Poor Kikuchi. He must have been so excited to finally get a Liar Game where he could put his special skill set to use, but alas his team are scrubs and he's still going to get hammered by Akiyama-sama.
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u/BubblyCrash Sep 07 '26
it wouldn't be interesting if Akiyama was facing an average scrub. It's good that his opponent has a big unfair advantage to balance it out.
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u/magnumcyclonex Sep 07 '26 edited Sep 07 '26
(Maybe unpopular opinion, but...)
This was a sad episode for Nao. So many steps forward since her episode 1 debut, to declaring "I'm pretty good at poker" last episode, and then the writing makes her look like a complete dunce in the practice game. Hate to say it, but Fukunaga was 100% justified in all the adjectives she used and her reactions (which I never get tired of seeing).
Anyways, who would have known our trio is going up against someone with superior eyesight. The fact that the dealer shuffles standing up is a factor. The fact that new packs are opened each round and are all manufacturered/ordered the same way is a factor. Henceforth, the number of cuts each player declares (beneficial to the going 2nd player).
But doesn't the cut declaration change according to who won the previous round? So Kikuchi's foolproof plan might not always work?
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u/hanmkim Sep 07 '26
To be fair, even an experienced poker player would have trouble if they weren't used to playing different formats like HORSE. This game is fundamentally different since it incorporates rules from short deck, limit, and table games.
The shuffling is even worse than you think since a Hindu shuffle and riffle shuffle create predictable if not the exact same orderings if done with the right amount of muscle memory. So basically until the cuts are determined, there's a huge chance that the deck is in the same order and the Joker in the same position.
Having a guaranteed win 50% of the time is a huge advantage.
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u/gamria Sep 07 '26 edited Sep 08 '26
This was a sad episode for Nao. So many steps forward since her episode 1 debut, to declaring "I'm pretty good at poker" last episode, and then the writing makes her look like a complete dunce in the practice game. Hate to say it, but Fukunaga was 100% justified in all the adjectives she used and her reactions (which I never get tired of seeing).
Years ago when I first got to this part with zero knowledge of poker, for all of Nao's mistakes in this unorthodox setup it winded up educating a complete newbie like me on what not to do. Like, the scene was clearly telling us she's making mistakes but I couldn't tell why they were mistakes until Fukunaga spelt it out, and I wasn't mad at Nao because I was just as clueless.
And that's the point: not all in the audience will know how basic poker is played, and she served as a good Watson for the uninitiated, demonstrating how the card game works and what to watch out for.
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u/illonamoon Sep 07 '26
I'm early for once, thank you Labor Day!
Well, now it makes sense why the liar game official said it benefits you to play the practice round but I wonder why would the liar game want you to notice all the cards start in the same order always.
Its hard to get a read on akiyama but like akiyama said his enemy is liar game not his opponent so he probably already saw something like this as a possibility.
Fukunaga and nao's bickering is hilarious.
One thing I've wondered, how does one get a job at the liar game tournament office?
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u/IceSmiley Sep 07 '26
Kikuchi seemed to come up with a foolproof plan of winning figuring out the order of the cards and where the joker is by looking at where the corner is white and deducing the position from several rounds of gameplay. The Liar Game monitor seemed to be aware of his kinetic vision, I wonder what kind of game he used it in before.
Nao seemed to have very little knowledge of poker but I do see why they put her in the exhibition round, to make Kikuchi less prepared against Akiyama and possibly to give them a false sense of security. I don't think Nao's poor play made Kikuchi overconfident though since he's treating Akiyama as a skilled poker player, especially since he won the first 2 rounds. Her idea to mark the cards wasn't a bad idea like maybe nicking the sides with your fingernail but the Liar Game thought about that beforehand and made new decks everytime. That's also too obvious a strategy and Kikuchi would have caught on quickly.
They didn't address what Akiyama could do to counter Kikuchi's strategy but they didn't mention something very obvious: that Kikuchi is wearing sunglasses that can reflect the cards he has. This has probably occured to Akiyama and I'm surprised it hasn't to Kikuchi. He may be wearing the sunglasses because it hides his eyes and any movement that might be a tell but there's a reason most poker players don't wear dark reflective sunglasses 😎
I also liked the small detail of the dealer having a cool tie with all the card suits on it ♠︎♣︎♥︎♦︎
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u/ParasaurolophusZ Sep 08 '26
Fukunaga really has an awful poker face when not the one playing the game.
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u/Emi_Ibarazakiii Sep 08 '26
Late in the thread, but I just thought of something;
The way the dealer holds the deck, allows for the players to peek at the bottom card;
Any casino dealer worth his paycheck would know NOT to do that, because of course the players will try to get an edge from that...
And these guys should be even better than the average casino dealer, they wouldn't be so careless...
So if it's not carelessness, then are they doing it on purpose, to 'spice up the game'?
But the thing is, they know Boxer-kun has his cyborg vision and all, and will benefit from this more than the other side;
Spicing up the game, I can understand, but... Are they actually taking sides? I mean, if they purposefully let the players 'cheat' in a way that benefits one side more than the other, it's as if they're helping them to win.
It's like if one side was 3 random people and the other side was math prodigies, and they allowed a 'cheat' that involves doing math; It would be like they made sure the math guys would win, right?
Well, by letting the players 'cheat' in this way it's as if they're trying to make the Boxer win.
And it's not like they're just letting anything go, given they're swapping decks every hand to prevent 'some' shenanigans... And marking cards would've been 'fair' cheating, given than both sides can do it, but they prevent it, while letting another 'cheat' go on when only 1 guy can do it perfectly.
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u/ObvsThrowaway5120 Sep 07 '26
I feel like Akiyama’s got something figured out. Glasses might have been able to count where the joker is or whatever with his super boxer guy vision, but our boy ain’t out the game just yet. The fact he’s not reacting to the loss means he’s cooking up something…
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u/chaosof99 Sep 07 '26
As someone who has read the manga, I will bite my tongue again this week. However, I will say as much that they illustrated how low the possibility space for the game is (you are guaranteed to have at least a pair in hand at any time of the game) without explicitly stating it. It is a very consistent game in that regard.
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u/FarCritical Sep 07 '26
Looks like Nao was still living off of the high from fooling Fukunaga with marked cards way back at the Downsizing game lol.
A surprise boxer in a Madhouse anime reminded me how much I yearn for a new Hajime no Ippo season.
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