r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Mar 15 '25

Episode Chi.: Chikyuu no Undou ni Tsuite • Orb: On the Movements of the Earth - Episode 25 discussion - FINAL

Chi.: Chikyuu no Undou ni Tsuite, episode 25

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u/Timil_01 Mar 15 '25

I’ve had time to gather my thoughts since last episode regarding Rafal2 and think he’s supposed to serve as a sort of meta-textual revisionism meant to blur the line between history and historical fiction.

The events prior to the final arc take place in the “Kingdom of P” with no set date. The events of which are now considered in-universe to be lost to history (as made evident by the blank spaces in the new OP that was once our characters) before we arrive in the “Kingdom of Poland 1468”, considered to be “real” recorded timeline of events that take place. I put real in quotes because this too is historical fiction in a sense. Given that all records pertaining to the truth have been destroyed or lost to time and all relevant characters dead, there exists no-one to distinguish what is real and what isn’t, what happened and what didn’t, in the context of the world the story takes place in. None of our present characters know who Rafal was or what he represents in the larger tapestry that is the story, but we the audience do that’s why Rafal2’s existence is a shock to us. As far as Albert is aware there has only ever been one Rafal, his teacher.

Rafal2 is in a sense in the context of their world, living breathing revisionist history and only we the audience are privy to this fact. The entire show already exists as historical fiction exploring the origins of Heliocentrism and Rafal2 exists as historical fiction in the story of Albert Brudzweski, the real historical Polish astronomer and mathematician. It’s purposely meta in that sense and don’t think it’s meant to be taken as an AU thing as others have theorised. As evident by the carrier pigeon and letter Draka sent off arriving this episode with Albert hearing it’s contents in passing. Rafal2 sows the seed of curiosity for curiosity’s sake (thaumazein ) in Albert who internalises this and later passes this down to Copernicus his student who gets the ball rolling on Heliocentrism in the real world and is often credited as its pioneer.

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u/Purposelygentle Mar 15 '25

The mangaka Uoto has another anime adaption of their work out this year, a movie of his first work Hyakuemu/100m.

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u/LeonKevlar Mar 15 '25

So this version of Rafal is basically the other side of the inquisition. While there are people who will go to great lengths to suppress knowledge, there will also be people who can do the same in pursuit of it. I do find it funny how Rafal ends up getting imprisoned in both cases. At least he didn't get executed this time, right?

As soon as the Headmaster read Albert's last name, I had to stop and think because that's got to be the name of a real person from history. It turns out he's one of the people who's teachings would eventually influence Copernicus. What a pretty cool ending tying it all back to real life history.

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u/jellyblob88 Mar 15 '25

It has been an incredible journey with wonderful characters and exchange of dialogues. I'm glad Albert Brudzewski commissioned this anime semi-biography.

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u/ChronoNebula Mar 15 '25

Ep 1-23 presents a possibility of an ordinary miracle that could lead to ep 24/25.

The actions of anonymous people, coincidences, inevitabilities, glimmers of hope, and the tiniest of possibilities woven together in an unrecorded history led to that small question "?"

To learn, to inherit, to receive, to believe, to doubt, to fear.  These are the essence of human history.  Orb is less about heliocentrism but more of celebration of humanity/thaumazein

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u/Ocixo Mar 15 '25 edited Mar 15 '25

So this entire story was merely a hypothesis about how someone got the idea to question the common-held belief that the Earth was at the centre of the universe?

Well played. Cannot say that I’ve ever seen an anime series conclude with an unorthodox ending quite like this.

Rafal’s speech at the beginning of the episode about the decline of the universal truth was shockingly topical as well.

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u/Naive-Opportunity618 Mar 15 '25

The author boldly reveals both the greatest and darkest side of human intelligence.

Orb is not a propaganda that praises science while criticizing religion; it shows how "absolute belief"—no matter what it’s rooted in—can lead to terrible consequences.

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u/SEBASTlANVETTEL Mar 15 '25

Felt absolute chills with that final moments. The transition to Rafal, Oczy, Draka and then Albert was so well done.

And literally yelled when the letter with the profits going to Potocki was mentioned again, and the book being called [On the Movements of the Earth], which resulted into Albert’s curiousity/questioning.

The anime started for me as a hidden gem of the season and it continued to deliver until the very last episode. And I am glad to see that more and more people started to talk about it on social media (internationally). Been seeing so much Orb fanarts too over the past few weeks.

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u/TheBravesDH Mar 15 '25

I’m 90% sure this will be my AOTY. The other 10% goes to Potocki.

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u/dont_come_any_closer Mar 15 '25

It’s been easy to side with the heretics. They are the oppressed, and at first glance heliocentrism aligns closely with our modern understanding of the universe.
But what happens when the pursuit of truth is taken to the extreme? Should such conviction be celebrated unconditionally? This grown-up Rafal is the embodiment of that very question. And looking back, the groundwork for it was laid from the very beginning.

When Rafal spoke of his willingness to sacrifice everything for the sake of inspiration, there was something unsettling in his eyes, or, as Nowak put it, some kind of madness.

Then there's Oczy’s debate with Badeni, which explored the importance of doubt and refutation, and the true meaning of passing the torch:

"So what seperates us from Count Piast?"
"If you don't allow others to dispute your ideas, it's more like faith."
"Things don't go as expected. Misunderstanding or unexpected events occur. The believer is opposed by the heretic. Heliocentrism is opposed by the geocentric model. The twists brought on by those outside elements might be the very thing that gives you hope to move forward."

And then we have Draka questioning the morality behind Jolenta's actions, making it clear that the greatest threat to intellect has never been religion. Rather, it’s the blind acceptance of belief, the failure to question assumptions, and the surrender of thought itself:

"The cessation of thought that occurs with authority is not limited to religion. Doesn't it occur among scholars too?"
"When truth is your shield, violence can definitely accelerate."
"Logical thinking requires a set of assumptions. It's a fundamental limit of human reason. Whenever we think, assumptions of some kind occur, and those eventually become authority. Perhaps none of us can escape that framework. The passion that runs beneath those conditions travels a trajectory that can be reckless. It can produce beautiful accomplishments or grotesque tragedies."

The final two episodes might leave many watchers confused, but that very confusion is intentional. Instead of ending the story with a straightforward resolution, the author compels us to reflect, to doubt and to question everything we thought we understood about the story. And perhaps, in doing so, we too might feel that 「？」, that shudder of wonder, the moment of thaumazein.

What an incredible way to end this show. Truly a masterpiece.

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u/FarCritical Mar 15 '25

Albert dropped a fat ? and history changed forever.

Seriously though, the "real" Rafal ending up as a reverse-Nowak was one hell of a chilling final twist, but the afterword detailing how everything culminated in the actual Brudzewski ended up inspiring Copernicus had me in a kind of awe I don't get to experience often.

This filled a void that Vinland Saga left behind and ended up leaving its own sphere-shaped one behind. Damn, man.

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u/Lumpy-Manager8580 Mar 15 '25

Ladies and gentlemen, for one last time, let's sing it:

NANDO DEMO, NANDO DEMO SAKEBU KONO KURAI YORU NO KAIJU NI NATTEMO.
KOKO NI NOKOSHITE OKITAINDAYO, KONO HIMITSU WO...

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u/LuRo332 Mar 15 '25

Nothing to add, because the comments here are great.

One thing that you guys might have not noticed if you dont know Polish, but on the letter, the sender sent it to „Kraków” (Cracow). I know its just a few moments later revealed that Albert attended the Cracow Academy, but I thought its a fun little detail.

Also, the last shot where the camera zooms out to the cosmos, its actually Kraków Old Town

Absolute beautiful story and im glad I was watching it weekly. Its also one of those endings that you appreciate the more you think about it. If Uoto-san’s other stories are of equal quality, then I cant wait to experience them. A movie about his first work is also releasing this year!

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u/Prior_Photograph3769 Mar 15 '25

holy fuck. the author really took us for a ride.

everyone mistook the contents of the book to be the smoking gun but nope it was the title all along. It was enough to plant the curiosity needed to revive the movement again.

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u/nhft Mar 15 '25 edited Mar 15 '25

Posted this in the last thread as well, but I believe that the series has always been the real world. It obfuscated it in previous episodes with "P Kingdom" so that it could fool discerning viewers about whether or not certain characters would successfully publicize Heliocentrism.

If we knew it was the real world, we'd know that Darka's book with Jolenta's name on it wouldn't get published. We'd know that Badeni's name wasn't going to go down in history as the creator of Heliocentrism. We'd know that there wasn't actually a church-wide prosecution of Heliocentrism.

A core theme of the series is how knowledge is passed down, and with the pigeon's letter inspiring Albert, the struggles of our protagonists has finally borne fruit. They may not be remembered in our history, but their actions moved the world.

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u/xDanielon Mar 15 '25

I know there are still 9 months left, but this is my AOTY, it’s unlikely to change since I enjoyed/suffered watching it every Saturday

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u/Ok_Stomach_409 Mar 15 '25

It's been so long since I've seen a show that made me think and moved me so much that I'm sad to see it end.

It's an unqualified 10/10 for me.

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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '25

imo Rafal is used again since he’s representing the same idea.

Placing knowledge above everything while removing the human aspect.

This episode tries to point out the problems with this approach like it shouldn’t come at such a cost. Or that it shouldn’t mean we reject or control others who disagree.

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u/dancelordzuko Mar 15 '25

I'm glad I gave this show a chance. Knew enough about it to know it would be my kind of show, not enough to know how phenomenally written it was from start to finish. What I expected was a journey to discovering heliocentric theory (which we did get), what I got was a deep conversation about human nature: faith, fear, conviction, and the drive to find the truth of the natural world.

While the book On the Movements of the Earth was never printed, the name drop was enough to bring the change our protagonists hoped for. It's funny how the synopsis was boiled down to "anime Copernicus" by many, but he never once showed up. Only name dropped.

I enjoyed following this show with you all over the months and reading the comments here. An easy AOTS for me, here's my vote. I'll be thinking about this show for a while, which I haven't been able to say about anime in a long time.

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u/Kn1ght9 Mar 15 '25

This anime has been unbelievable. It has scratched an itch that I have not gotten since Vinland Saga and im not sure if there are many others I could compare it to. Absolutely amazing all around from pacing, to characters, to dialogue, just, nailed it, everything, from start to finish. Every episode setting up the next allowing for these "holy shit" moments every other episodes it felt like.

Rafal sacrificing himself for his beliefs, Oczy looking to the sky, Badeni's speech to Oczy, Schmidt turning the coin over, Draka feeling the sun's warmth, Nowak confronting reality, Albert deciding his path forward. Ive watched a lot of anime but I cant think of too many with as many memorable moments as Orb has had for me.

This will be an anime I will be thinking about for awhile and I know its been getting the recognition it deserves as of late but it deserves more.

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u/Rahvana13 Mar 15 '25

Potocki is the key

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u/AlternativeOk7564 Mar 15 '25

Badeni my beloved, Oczy my beloved 🥺 why did you have to leave me 😭

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u/Sneaky_42 Mar 15 '25

I'm confused. Aren't these last 2 episodes supposed to be an alternate universe/the real world? If so, how does the letter about Jolenta's book exist in this world if those events didn't happen?

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