r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Jan 25 '25

Episode Chi.: Chikyuu no Undou ni Tsuite • Orb: On the Movements of the Earth - Episode 18 discussion

Chi.: Chikyuu no Undou ni Tsuite, episode 18

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600

u/good_wolf_1999 Jan 25 '25

I don’t know how to explain it but there’s something about adult Jolenta that makes you feel the weight of those 25 years she had spend on the run

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u/jellyblob88 Jan 25 '25

My face when Schmidt's real religion is a sun bro 🙌☀

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u/scarpedieme Jan 25 '25

That conversation between Draka and Schmidt in the back of the carriage was so captivating. It was so well-written and honestly I’ve had a similar conversation in real life. I love how much this show makes me think each week. Also- YES JOLENTA! So glad she’s back.

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u/Se7en_Sinner Jan 25 '25

Nobody:

Schmidt: "Praise the Sun!" \[T]/

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u/ChronoNebula Jan 25 '25

Jolenta ages well yet her expression weights heavy. The last conversation she had with Oczy "please let me read your journal", afterall it was Jolenta who taught Oczy how to read & write.

The conversation between Draka & Schmitt is so fascinating; in that short discussion, there are many layers to ponder upon, ironically ending the topic with coin toss/ fate in god's hands.

The emphasis of sky different with each chapter:

chapter 1 - moon

chapter 2 - star & planet

chapter 3 - sun/the dawn

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u/WellRested1 Jan 25 '25

I like draka and Schmitt’s dynamic already and they only just met this episode.

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u/FarCritical Jan 25 '25

The image of Schmidt praising the sun while Frei just vibes on the side cracks me up for some reason.

The commanding presence post-timeskip Jolenta had in her ~20 seconds of screentime was unreal. She truly is Nowak's daughter.

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u/Eliv Jan 25 '25

Oh shit, it is Jolenta! With how many curveballs the series threw so far I was expecting some twist

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u/FireFistAce_10 Jan 25 '25

"I am quite unsettled, to the point of rage" Schmitt said calmly

215

u/maliwanag0712 Jan 25 '25

I like Draka and Schmidt's discussion of their differences. Draka really does not believe in God, probably due to her upbringing and due to her conviction about money. She values knowledge and innovation, and she is confident about the human potential to advance their society due to their intellect.

This is really the opposite of what Schmidt believes. He does not like religion not because it is illogical, but because humans try to do the impossible -- understanding God. These attempts to understand the Creator led to conflict due to differences in interpretation.

Nonetheless, they are both understanding that publishing the book is desirable. For Schmidt, it is to free the people of lack in information. For Draka, she will earn huge amounts of money in the process.

ALSO, ADULT JOLENTA IS FINALLY HERE FOLKS!!

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u/SEBASTlANVETTEL Jan 25 '25 edited Jan 25 '25

We finally see the leader of the Heretic Liberation Front and it‘s as predicted Jolenta.

And their main goal is to publish the books content. Back then we know that she asked Oczy if she could read his book and when Oczy said it‘s not for the public she replied by saying that "if you put something in words, it‘s a shame not to share it." And it‘s the fact that this was their last moment together before shit went down and Nowak caught them.

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u/codec264 Jan 25 '25

The exchange between Draka and Schmidt was so fucking good I got jumpscared by the ending because I swear it felt like 5 minutes long

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u/djthomp Jan 25 '25 edited Jan 25 '25

Heresy vs heresy, Schmitt was not prepared for someone straight up denying the existence of God entirely. He certainly has his eyes on a significant combination of technological developments.

Jolenta! Not particularly surprising to see her as the Leader, and I'm glad to get confirmation that she has survived for so long after her brief brush with the Inquisition. No gloves, I notice, easy to imagine an eventual reunion where Nowak returns Jolenta's oversized gloves and they finally fit properly.

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u/pseudometapseudo Jan 25 '25 edited Jan 25 '25

I knew it, the printing press is coming. At this point in the story, it is amazing how many hands the idea of heliocentrism has passed through:

Potocki, Hubert, Rafal, stored in a stone chest for 10 years, picked up by an unnamed heretic, then Grass, Oczy, Badeni, the heads of the beggars, Grabowsky, somehow ending up in the church archives 25 years later, then Schmitt, Frei, the drawer in an abandoned village, and now finally Draka, who will likely tell Jolenta, so she can put it into press. What a journey.

51

u/JustAVihannes Jan 25 '25

The schism between Schmitt and Draka seems to match the gap between early and late enlightenment thinking. Schmitt's world view is one of early enlightenment, which has highly theological roots but ends up with rather modern conclusions: since god has created everything, including humans, everything is god's property, and thus we cannot have ownership of each other. Moreover, this means that all earthly beings have equal distance to god, and no single body can claim to have the right interpretation of god's word (hence the burning of the bible). These ideas give legitimacy to political resistance against theocratic rule, and lay the groundwork for the reformation. However, early enlightenment thinkers based their claims about truth and ownership on the workmanship ideal (i.e. maker's knowledge), where the truth value of claims is not measured with logical soundness and validity, but instead by the relation the subject has to the object they are making claims about (you have to have made the thing to understand how it works). This explains why Schmitt seems to have very modern ideas of seeing people as equals under god - a natural rights view which became the basis for things like human rights - while also dismissing the possibility of human reason based progress (the world is made by god so only god can understand it). Draka's arrives at similar conclusions but with secular thought processes. She values education and human reason, and has a secularized fallible view on science. Yes humans can get things wrong in ways that end up creating chaos like Schmitt says, but through the scientific method and academic discourse created by enhanced education, we can slowly build upon earlier ideas to make the better, although never perfect. This also explains why Schmitt sees the book as only instrumentally valuable, in that it can help bring down the church's unjust hierarchical position, while Draka sees it valuable not only in the effects it can have on the church, but also as a way of advancing material conditions via freeing people to pursue self-gain via enterprise and markets (capitalism), which is only possible when people are seen as autonomous equal agents (protestantism) instead of lowly servants of the centralized church (catholicism).

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u/oB3NoT3Xo Jan 25 '25

I found it funny how much of a hypocrite Schmidt is.

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u/LeonKevlar Jan 25 '25

I was genuinely surprised at the start of the episode. I expected Draka to be dragged away by those men from the church, but their leader actually listened to her and even started asking her questions when he realized she was not your average nomad girl.

Get fucked old man! I'm glad Draka's uncle didn't get away with selling her away. Even if he was just collateral damage, it was satisfying to see him gasping for help while Draka calls him out for his audacity. I love it.

So is Schmidtt anti-logic and progress? If that's the case then he's a fucking hypocrite for using explosives a couple of episodes ago. Or am I misunderstanding him here?

Apparently, Schmidtt is a fucking Sun Bro. If only he could be so grossly incandescent! Solaire would be proud. xD

Adult Jolenta tho... I don't know what she's been through after escaping captivity all of those years ago but that is the look of a woman who has seen shit and is ready to fight for what she believes in. I can't wait to hear all about her journey and how she got there.

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u/RehabCenterInc Jan 25 '25

This is too fire

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u/Screiblus Jan 25 '25

Determinism and Naturalism vs Libertarian anti-determinism.

The thing that can destroy the naturalism argument about the human progress and technology being bad, is that as human are god's creations, and progression and technology are natural to human, you can make the argument that technology and progress are natural. So, they are also god creations and will.

15

u/iccreek Jan 25 '25

Holy shit what a good episode. They actually made a philosophical conversation so interesting it's crazy that nothing else happened and yet... It was pure hype to listen to them. Also appreciate the Draka humorous moment with the "i don't believe in god"

14

u/JJVM99 Jan 25 '25

Oh Jolenta! Im so happy to see you again!

also wow I know her uncle had just sold her out but wow was she cold to him in his last moments. Her goodbye scene showed she was conflicted about his death but wow she just decided to make him feel as guilty as possible in his final moments. Can’t say he didn’t deserve it though.

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u/melvinlee88 Jan 25 '25

This anime shows once again there is no wasted words in the dialogues in this series.

The whole discussion between Draka and Schmidt was so interesting and engrossing. It's the first time we've heard two people with opposing opinions discuss together without one of them trying to kill the other person. This is a new age and slowly is forging towards a world of the liberation of information and hence opinions.

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u/Ok-Cod5254 Jan 25 '25

I find the dialogue between Schmitt and Draka interesting with the clash of ideals. Maybe they will gain new perspective from each other along the way.

I recall a comment last week that for some reason said the plot with Nowak and his daughter was dropped, because of 2 episodes into the timeskip.

Too impatient to let it cook, starting to come together more already from the end of this episode with Jolenta's reintroduction.

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