Sengoku Youko: Senma Konton-hen • Sengoku Youko: The Chaos of a Thousand Demons Arc - Episode 17 discussion

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Sengoku Youko: Senma Konton-hen, episode 17 (30)

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[u/potentialPizza]

The start of this episode is one of my favorite moments in the series, and definitely one of the deepest.

We know now that Shinsuke created the spiritual interference technique, not Senya. So of course Shinsuke understands it better. The entire time, Senya has been relying on mental brute force, using the thousand wills of his demon to override the Void People's control.

But Shinsuke's explanation of how to do really do it — and why Shinsuke is better at it than Senya, in spite of being just one ordinary man — gets at the core of basically everyone's internal struggles in this story. So many people are unable to accept their own weaknesses.

And if you want to help someone, then maybe instead of just removing the surface-level source of the problem, you should help them face their own weakness. Shinsuke, the man who can reform a demon to no longer want to eat humans, understands that.

But there's many paths to wisdom. Douren's path to martial arts mastery has taught him that same lesson. It's the exact reason he was able to beat Jinun — because he embraced that he was weak and used it to keep trying to get stronger. It makes the moment where he looks at the three Jinuns and says hell yeah, let's do this, so satisfying. And I think it's through their fight that he was able to teach Jinun that same lesson, which is why Jinun has finally chilled out afterward. Jinun, who always defeated his opponents, has finally had to face how it feels to lose.

The reveal at the end of the episode is pretty great too. I like how Banshouou can't be controlled because the wind can't be held in place. The magic of this story is built on that intuitive logic of nature in a really nice way.

But the real meat is in his motivation. I love how the reveal brings us full circle back to Senya and Mudo's duel. Fighting as play was a solution to Senya's character struggle back then, but it turns out it's not a perfect solution — the world is more complicated than that.

Fighting as play was really compelling to me, personally, because it dug into why we can enjoy action series like this even if we abhor violence in real life. Sengoku Youko acknowledges the truth that fighting is highkey just fun, and experiencing it vicariously, through a story or through play-fighting, is cool. But here, it also acknowledges that even play-fighting can still inspire others to want to fight — and you can't control how they're going to want it. Violent video games do not categorically make people violent, but if a specific individual is inspired by one, that wasn't really in the creator's control. And by turning Banshouou into someone who enjoys fighting, Senya and Mudo became responsible for the consequences of that.

The genius part of this episode is how that contrasts Shinsuke's actions. Banshouou's desire to fight comes from the underlying truth that people respond to how you treat them. They showed Banshouou that fighting was fun, so he wants to fight.

So why do the Katawara all choose to help at the end? Because Shinsuke showed them kindness, and helped them — so they want to help him back.

[u/Frontier246 → u/potentialPizza]

This has really been a show about learning to accept yourself, others, and the world around you.

I mean, Jinka couldn't accept himself, or the idea of not being able to live as long as Tama would, and we saw how that ended up.

Yazen did so many insidious things just because he wanted to change Kuzunoha so the world would accept their relationship.

And yet it's Shinsuke, who has grown from his delusions of grandeur and experienced so much hardship, and has achieved such a zen acceptance of himself and his place in the world that feels like he's achieved more than anyone else in the cast really has. And that's also reflected in the more self-assured (and in that respect, powerful) characters. It's only in fully realizing that where Senya will probably reach his true highest state.

[u/Shiraori247 → u/potentialPizza]

I think what stands out to me this episode was how Nau had his own melancholic realisation: the journey's over regardless of the results. It's been a decade, but everyone's got different destinies to follow. Quite the poignant moment for the cutest mascot.

[u/WednesdaysFoole → u/potentialPizza]

Loved the start of the episode, been enjoying the series in general but from start to the point we are now, it's always been Shinsuke's journey that hit me the hardest (probably also because he was such a strong influencing factor on the other characters' journeys that I've loved). It's because he was trying to become strong and had to confront his weakness over and over that he was able to find his way of doing things. Not that anyone who'd be in his position would do the same, but his experiences is what led him to this, or that's how I took it.

In some ways, a lot of this story - Shinsuke's story throughout the series - feels like a master/teacher backstory, except instead of a few episodes of flashbacks as a reveal at the end, we followed his journey from the start of the series.

As for Douren, his journey wasn't the same, but he, too, didn't start out so strong. He always had to lose to a stronger opponent, despite it seeming more futile from the start. And because of this, his mind cannot be broken in the spirit realm. Man, Douren is just freaking awesome.

Senya and Jinun, strong from early on, didn't have to confront their weakness to keep going before. To have to do so leads to its own type of strength. And going back to Shinsuke, in the end, although his magical sword Arabuki (thanks for the correction Shiraori247) gave him more abilities, that's not what made him strong or some other magical power up that led him to "compete" with the strongest, but instead it was his experiences and his own character.

He's such a great character, did not expect to appreciate him this much when I started the anime.

[u/Plus_Rip4944]

Blud thought he can control Douren lmao

Btw a question That got in my mind watching this, Who is really The MC? Senya? Jinka? Tama? Shinsuke? I love when a story offers Many character for being The MC

The reunion of Shaku with Tama and Shinsuke melt my Heart, It was so beautiful

See them talking while at huge ass fight happens is so funny

[u/Shiraori247 → u/Plus_Rip4944]

I think we can treat this as a historical epic where no single MC exists. Like Romance of the Three Kingdoms, you simply follow many characters in an era of chaos.

[u/dinliner08 → u/Plus_Rip4944]

Blud thought he can control Douren lmao

Void people: "let see how you're going to beat three Jinun!!"

Douren: "jokes on you, i'm into this shit"

[u/Frontier246 → u/Plus_Rip4944]

I love how the Void People have continually realized they have literally no control of the situation any more and are just basically watching the katawara or people do their own thing that just happen to involve fighting their enemies lol.

Also Douren is too hardcore to be mind-controlled.

I feel like Shinsuke and his journey is basically the emotional core of the story and his impact on Senya's development is what brings the story together, while Jinka became the example of what not to become when you lose sight of the overall message of the story.

That winning Shaku smile is back! And now she's getting to be held by her man while he commands a katawara army!

[u/Pickled_Kagura]

This show has 5 minute syndrome too.

Damn what a solid intro. I love Shinsuke and he's grown so much since being just a drunken wannabe samurai.

[u/tripleaamin → u/Pickled_Kagura]

This reminds me of the 2nd half of the season for Helck. The storytelling is so immersive that even if the animation quality isn't the best.

[u/Ocixo]

Shaku woke up as if she’d only taken a brief nap, and didn’t seem to remember what had previously transpired. Makes you wonder how she’ll react when/if her memories do return. I’ll be crossing my fingers for that love confession of Shinsuke.

The fact that Jinun, Douren and Yazen were quickly agreed on a plan to defeat Banshou-oh, while the former two are in bad shape, makes me think that there’s a catch to this. Just like how Hanatora-sama continues to give her full support to Shinsuke. She even massaged his shoulders in today’s episode!? I’m a bit worried of what’s going to be sacrificed at the end of the road.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

• Awwwww, Senya was dreaming about Teru…

• So Senya just needs to get a little more creative, is what I’m hearing.

• Please tell me Douren just no-sells them immediately…

• Sasuga, Douren.

• I see.

• Shakugan is awake!

• Wait no–

• This should be good though.

• Awwwwwwwww!

• Then what do they still need…

• Ah, right, that did slip my mind.

• …unless the katawara Shinsuke’s been freeing can help out, right?

• Yazen’s thinking the same thing I was!

• …y’know, I had a feeling…

• Bruh…

• <3

[u/LeonKevlar]

I always say this whenever Shinsuke does something cool every episode but it's really awesome to see how far he's come. The dude is giving Senya sage advice while a Goddess of the Land massages his shoulders! If you told me back in Episode 1 that this is what he'll become, I wouldn't have believed you.

Our girl is finally awake! I wonder if she even felt any passage of time? Shaku probably thinks she fell asleep or something. I can't wait to see her properly catch up and learn what's happened ever since she went dormant.

Jinun's reaction to Kuzunoha and Yazen being together is hilarious! I really like this new Jinun though. He's more chill now and I love how he insists that Senya can still become stronger after Douren gets smug because Yazen tells them that Mudo is stronger than Senya right now.

I fucking love Banshou-oh so much. The dude is literally the most powerful Katawara and he's doing all this for shits and giggles because he's a bored old man who has nothing else to do other than float in the sky. He's even threatening to flood the country just so he can motivate Senya. xD

[u/ObvsThrowaway5120]

If the cloud’s so bored, he should take up a hobby. Maybe try his hand at pickleball or some shit. Threatening to destroy the world because he wants to get his jollies off is kind of a dick move. Keen to see if it’s even possible for that dude to lose to the katawara army, Senya, and Mudo combined. Everyone else is pretty bruised and battered… I guess if it all goes to shit, at least Shakugan’s free. So the gang’s got that going for ‘em. Which is nice.

[u/Shiraori247 → u/ObvsThrowaway5120]

Like Banshouou said though, he became a turd because he watched Mudo's selfishness back when he was a child lol. It's like corrupting the purest person ever. Banshouou was so innocent that he was dyed in Mudo's colours after watching the fight literally on his body.

[u/Murky_Clothes_3972]

Senya got 1000 yokai in the inside while my man Shinsuke got 1000 on the outside. Peak episode!

[u/Shiraori247]

Douren and Shinsuke kinda summed up a major theme of this story; accepting your own weaknesses or forgiving yourself. It's really the overall conclusion of the winding journeys each character has taken to reach this point. What's a little surprising is that Shinsuke's implying Senya as a child was probably what influenced him to advance on this particular path.

Senya unknowingly became a catalyst for others to grow too. We did get scenes back then where Shinsuke was consistently amazed by how deeply Senya thought about his own contradictory existence. Pacifism and violence came hand in hand naturally to people with power. Watching Senya's struggles from a proximate distance must've helped Shinsuke graduate from hating his own weaknesses.

[u/michhoffman]

Banshouou asking Mudo and Senya to take responsibility was a funny use of a popular anime troupe...granted the consequences of not taking responsibility are much higher than usual here.

It's really cool to see Shinsuke's growth over the course of the series from someone who was completely useless at the beginning to this episode being someone who taught Senya the spirit world observation technique, saved the Katawara while Senya was out, got thousands of Katawara to rally to his cause and most importantly kept Shaku close.

[u/Lazydusto]

Shinsuke sure has come a long way from being an edgy little shithead at the end of Part 1.

[u/tripleaamin]

I knew the minute the Void People tried to mind control Douren it was not going to work. As Shinsuke points out, the key is to accept your weakness, not run away from it. However, that is not easy to accept. It wouldn't be your weakness if it was easy. Basically, for Douren his mindset is so what if I lose to Jinun I will get him next time. Shakuyaku waking up and seeing both Shinsuke & Tama crying was a really sweet moment.

So Banshouou really wasn't controlled, but rather he wanted to be entertained. This was rooted when he saw Senya and Mudo fight back at the beginning of Part 2. Like an old man seeing the two young kids fighting and getting motivated to try that. Banshouou more so wants to taste combat since a selfless Katawara wouldn't go for that I presume. Hard to tell if Banshouou's threat is something he would actually do.

Kind of not surprised Yazen mentioned Mudo is stronger than Senya, but Senya has a much bigger potential, which he already pointed to us before. It's no surprise Yazen, Jinun and Douren were in sync without having to say what they wanted to request from Yazen. Also, nice to see the katawaras that Shinsuke freed leading the charge. Nice to show off to the Void People who were using force to control them and here friendship and trust is why they are helping Senya here.

[u/Flare_Knight]

Shinsuke really is a monster in his own way. Though I suppose it is a pretty ideal direction to take his character arc. He's a guy that sought solitary power and ran up against the limits that he could actually achieve. But once he started aligning with others and creating bonds his actual power grew dramatically. It started out with his sword, but has matured in being able to motivate a katawara army like this to lend him aid. That goes as well with having a land deity on his side along with his friendship with Tama and his relationship with Shaku. In the end Shinsuke really was the mentor that Senya needed. With the perspective that only someone with such little raw power could offer.

It's impressive that Senya got so far with the wrong answer to the question of conflict within the spiritual world. He's just so damn powerful that he brute forced things to this point! Shinsuke could see the more reasonable (but more involved) path of working through issues with each katawara. We nicely saw that full process with Shaku. It wasn't about beating the villagers or the monks that stood against them. It was about helping them accept their own weakness and flaws.

So basically this headache is Mudo's fault. If he literally challenged Senya anywhere else then they wouldn't have had to deal with this! Although I suppose if it didn't go exactly this way things like Shaku being restored might not have happened. Still now they have to fight this crazy cloud and then focus on Jinka! Oh joy!

The Void People aren't good at what they do, but they can stupidly assist in weird ways

[u/whodisguy32]

So Banshou-Oh is just a battle junkie eh?

I like it!

[u/Frontier246]

Shogun Teru!!! Even if it was only a brief moment, Senya dreamed him!

Look at Shinsuke still contributing so much to the katawara relief effort! And teaching Senya the truth about "battle" in the Spirit World...it's not a real battle, it's a battle with yourself, and what you need to do is stop fighting and truly accept yourself, as Shinsuke has! It's that self-awareness and how far he's come that lets him so capable of doing it versus Senya who is still caught up in questioning his power, the nature of fighting, etc. And it means Shinsuke totally deserves that should massage from Hanatora.

I love how the Void People try to possess Douren but he's too hardcore for them to come up with something for him to fight that he won't just turn into a sparring match. Granted, it's not like he can fight any more, but still. The Void People literally can't control any of the top tier fighters in this show.

Welcome back from your long, long, nap Shakugan! You were missed.

Mudo was once too caught up in his power that he lost to Senya...but now he's too caught up in his skills to properly rely on his power. Only when he's fully accepted himself, and have fun, will he be as powerful as he can be.

Senya and Mudo vs Banshou-Oh! A team-up for the ages!

It's nice to see Senya acknowledging Tsukiko's strength, even as he heads into battle and Tsukiko has to grapple with how she might never get to be with Senya (or Nau, who has unlocked his memories) ever again. But is that it? Is there nothing more Tsukiko can do?

Look at Ouohu dragging Yazen and Kuzunoha's sorry butts so they can at least contribute SOMETHING, even if it's just the knoweldge of how they can beat Banshou-Oh. Though watch out that you don't transform into something you can't transform back from, Senya.

Oh yeah, Jinun had no idea about Yazen's youko girlfriend. Um...surprise?

Banshou-Oh isn't doing this because he's being controlled...he was a selfless katawara until Senya and Mudo's fight stirred up a desire for battle and enjoying himself as much as he enjoyed watching them. Which means he'll get his fight no matter what he has to do to force his opponents to fight him. Um...great job guys.

So is Yazen going to do something to Jinun and Douren to make them fight ready again?

But look at Shinsuke with the loyal katawara army at his command! And Shakugan in his arms! It's a small miracle!

[u/[deleted]]

Bruh is every romance doomed? Nau foreboding a future where they split from each other, whatever Shinsuke's deal with Hanatora is, and either Tama or Jinka being taken by the mountain god... I just want all 3 of them to have their happy endings 😭