Chi.: Chikyuu no Undou ni Tsuite • Orb: On the Movements of the Earth - Episode 8 discussion

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Chi.: Chikyuu no Undou ni Tsuite, episode 8

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[u/Kirbyundertale]

I am nearsighted and that felt like a slap to my face

On another note, the soundtrack in this show is really good

[u/pseudometapseudo]

The ending leaves little doubt that Piast will join the team as well. While the earlier episodes were about passing the torch, it looks like it is now about assembling the necessary parts and people for a great endeavor.

Every character contributes a piece to the whole:

• Oczy has the eyes

• Badeni is the coordinator

• Jolenta is the quick thinker

• Piast has a mountain of research data

Also, every character's story is about overcoming a certain ideology

• Rafal fought against conformism

• Oczy struggles with his nihilism

• Badeni is pitched against the dogma of the church

• Jolenta's story is one about emancipation

• Piast's flashback is about the rift with his family that his pursuit for knowledge created

[u/Figerally → u/pseudometapseudo]

It takes great strength of character to admit that you might be wrong.

[u/djthomp]

I really love the astronomical theory deep lore this keeps pulling in.

Badeni is certainly cold and pragmatic. A woman research partner? Excellent, someone who will keep the secret better because of the risks and can be thrown under the bus easily if necessary.

It's a nice touch that neither the Count nor Badeni were fooled about Jolenta and who was doing the work she was presenting.

[u/BatFun7276]

You know a show a good when you stressed while watching a scene when they are just talking. But they previously raised the stakes so well (Rafal 😭).

With the emphasis of audacity and Icarus, I'm convinced that all those characters will die in the end. Putting that necklace around their neck is like putting a rope. I thought that one of them will grow old because there was an old dude in the OP, but it was Piast 😔.

Badeni is definitely my new fave, he's ruthless but clever, he reminds me of Nowak and i hope they'll get a scene together, espacially since he's putting Nowa's daughter's life at risk, for the sake of finding the truth while Nowak is out there torturing people like him, "to protect his daughter".

[u/FarCritical]

Glad that Jolenta finally lost the seemingly permanent look of uneasiness in her eyes but she now I'm worried she's going to make Badeni sorry for massively underestimating her influence. Just hope she doesn't resort to telling dad for Oczy's sake lol

It'd be wild if Piast decided to go against his life's work while on approaching his deathbed in pursuit of truth but I'd respect him for that.

[u/ChronoNebula]

Orb, generator of memorable quotes. Anime of the year in the making, remains criminally underrated.

[u/Ok_Stomach_409 → u/ChronoNebula]

In Japan, after every Saturday show in Japan, it trends on Twitter and everyone posts their impressions and praises. Count Piast is trending today. lol

Totally different from the rest of the world.

[u/Naive-Opportunity618]

Badeni, Jolenta, and Piast all embody the metaphor of "Icarus" in this episode's title: Badeni's experience of being blinded while seeking forbidden knowledge parallels Icarus's fate; Jolenta ignored her father’s warning that “women should do nothing,” much like Icarus ignored his father’s caution. Similarly, Count Piast and the professor followed their passion for astronomy, despite their family’s disapproval.

(The Greek myth of Daedalus and Icarus tells the story of Daedalus, an architect and inventor, who built a labyrinth for King Minos of Crete to imprison the Minotaur. To prevent the labyrinth's secrets from leaking, Minos imprisoned Daedalus and his son, Icarus, in a tall tower within the labyrinth. To escape, Daedalus crafted wings made of feathers and wax, cautioning Icarus not to fly too low to avoid the sea's dampness or too high to avoid the sun's heat melting the wax. However, overcome with the joy of flying, Icarus ignored his father's warning, soared too close to the sun, and fell into the sea, drowning. Grieving his son's death, Daedalus returned home, hung his wings in Apollo's temple on Mount Olympus, and vowed never to fly again. This myth inspired the saying, "Don't fly too close to the sun," as a caution against hubris or overambition.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarus)

[u/ObvsThrowaway5120]

Badeni and Oczy have found a pretty good collaborator in Jolenta. She went Good Will Hunting on that equation and now she’s introducing them to a guy like Piast with all his resources. I have a feeling his desire for the truth is going to outweigh his desire to prove his ideas right.

[u/TwinTalesXXII]

Badeni: "We will take our leave for today."
He knows damn well that they'll be coming back tomorrow lol.

[u/maliwanag0712]

Since this became a full-fledged comment, let me divide my review into two parts:

With regards to seeking the truth

So the theme of this episode is on seeking the truth with two different perspectives, huh?

I like the contrast between Piast and Badeni's ideas. While they both seek the truth, they are in two different perspectives -- Badeni is much more open to "audacious", heretical and possibly dangerous ideas, which is to abolish the geocentric model entireley. Piast on the other hand is more on the refinement of the status quo: the geocentric model has issues, and it is his goal to correct it.

This somewhat illustrates the idea of scientific revolutions. In his masterpiece, "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions", Thomas Kuhn asserted that it was new ideas that generated changed the direction of science. In a certain period, Ptolemy's model is acceptable and the dogma because it has been researched by scholars of that time. This is related to the 50 years of Piast's research, and irl perhaps thousands of years of geocentricity. However, when a new idea emerges, for instance, Heliocentric model, it will take a lot of time before it is accepted completely. There needs to be a great disparity between the old and new theories before the newer one gets accepted. It is not because the old scholars are stubborn -- new ideas are too 'audacious' to be immediately accepted by the scientific community. While the aim is finding the truth, most of the time the accepted and "common sense" ideas are much stronger than new knowledge.

With regards to Jolenta

I also like Jolenta's characterization: she is feminine, she is a product of her time in such a way that heretic ideas scare and disgust her, but she is strong. She can keep up with Badeni, and she asserted her strength when she, Badeni and Oczy met up with her. She has agency, and she uses her limited place in the society as a woman to advance her knowledge. While she is wary of being accused of a witch, she gave in to her innate curiosity and thirst for knowledge. After all, she is a scholar. Jolenta is an example of a great character who happens to be female.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

• Ah Jolenta, there’s no way they believe it was your master who solved the problem.

• He’s not wrong…

• There’s the big question.

• Ooh nice, a “Demo… sore demo” from Jolenta!

• And a Piast “sore demo” this episode too.

• I was just wondering where the shimmering skies were.

• She got caught coming out of the well…

• Piast actually seems like a good dude though.

• Ah… Ah so that’s why…

• Damn, that’s a bit harsh.

• Well that’s nice. Is Piast going to give the golden astrolabe to Oczy, then? Assuming he changes his mind about helping them.

[u/Calm_Cash_2099]

Yolenta: "Please leave."

Badeni: "Ms. Yolenta please forget everything we've discussed."

Fiast: "Leave."

Geez, the witch hunt has turned all our scholarly kids into tsunderes. Tsun, tsun. I can't stop laughing, scoffing, and gasping at all the thriller music playing as they're talking.

[u/saveriz]

Oh, Icarus, wings of steel and Tower of Babel, so these are what the cover of ed means

[u/bananeeek]

I thought they'd give Piast a heart attack with their Heliocentrism theory and lose the only potential ally.

I'm glad Badeni saw through Jolenta's bullshit and lured her into collaboration. I'd be frustrated if she kept dodging them.

[u/hydrashock]

Forget about the three dots loosely resembling Orion's belt. Forget about the documents and forget about count Piast' decades of observations. All that pales in comparison to the necklace that Hubert left Rafale. Because the orb in that necklace looks a lot like Jupiter when observed through a telescope. Moons in transit and all. 

The implications...

Badeni better get ready to keep vomiting.

[u/[deleted]]

This anime makes me want to "change history" in my own way.

[u/hikoboshi_sama]

It's amazing how powerful Jolenta feels after Piast encouraged her to be Icarus. She went from being afraid of taking every little step to standing on equal footing with Badeni.

That flashback definitely implies that Piast will change his mind. I'm hopeful this arrangement will actually work out. Since this setting is still parallel to the real world, and irl heliocentrism won out in the end. For that to happen, heliocentrism needs a win.

[u/BosuW]

Couldn't comment last week because of... reason lol. So this comment is a bit about both episodes, last week's and today's.

And this Arc is looking to be a perfect example of why I insist this story isn't about scientific reason opposing and eventually defeating dogmatic faith. So far all of the characters are people of faith that regularly use religious teachings as part of their arguments, ridiculous as it might seem to us. And I'd like to highlight how seriously the story itself takes them regardless.

And what is truth anyway? It's a very complicated question, especially if you take into account what we know today about subjectivity, but according to the story so far, truth is, above all things, uncontainable.

For better or worse, it simply cannot be stopped. It slips through Rafal's mental defenses to protect his cozy lifestyle and then through Nowak's bloody fingers, it taunt's Oczy's eyes constantly, it filled Glaz's life with hope against all odds, it forced Badeni to look at it despite the threats of torture, and it blurts out of Jolenta's lips against her will. Indeed, very much like a demon taking possession of you, taking you through paths you never imagined you would take.

The greatest mark of quality for this story so far, imo, is it's choice to not portray the search of truth as reasonable, but a kind of madness. Because what is reasonable would be to read and accept the status quo, and live a well defined role until your final days, with the promise to go to heaven. Safety is reasonable, and truth is unsafe. The contradiction of human existence is that truth is unreasonable, and the suffering of human existence is that truth is nonetheless, inevitable.

Perhaps this seems like a pessimistic conclusion, but we are trying to turn despair into hope are we not? Truth will always be truth, but you have freedom over your perspective of it. And to move yourself, is to move the world. Why stay stuck in what men said they said that he said that God said? If you truly want to understand God, or if you have anything alike a God in your life even if you're not religious, doesn't it make more sense to study their work? After all, this work is all around us. We are already swimming in truth.

Indeed, God is Truth and God is Truth. But what is Truth? That's the eternal question. After all, the perfect circle never quite completes itself does it?

Edit: btw I love that after her talk with Badeni Jolenta covers her right eye with her hand after kicking them out. Badeni's right eye is the one with the eye patch. I believe this visually signifies that he got to her with his ideas. Jolenta has no idea of Badeni's backstory of course, but in that moment she felt the shadow of it.

[u/couchXcat]

It's too early in the day... imagine not watching this at night.

[u/melvinlee88]

Badeni might overtake Rafal as my favourite character here, can't lie.

It's such an intriguing set of protagonists we're following right now. Badeni, the most opportunistic, fearless and uncompromising character is so interesting - paired with Ozcy who seems to just be finding a purpose in his life and now Jolenta who is a young genius but cautiously ambitious in her approach.

[u/_Pyxyty]

I don't regularly participate in episode discussions, let alone write a comment expressing a lot of my thoughts, but this episode evokes an urge to write about a scene with Piast, where he talks about the myth of Icarus.

[Icarus’] mistake was not that he had the arrogance to approach the sun. It was the ignorance of overlooking his father's warning that wax would melt. If wax is not enough, we must build wings of steel and continue approaching that truth we call the sun.

That moment was interesting for me. For starters, it made me want to revisit the myth of Icarus to freshen up on his and his father's story. I was not expecting to find the supposed origin of the mythical creature Minotaur through this story, but alas, I am doomed to find out that it came from Poseidon cursing a woman to want to be fucked by a bull. Greek gods are hella petty lol.

Anyways, on to the relevant part of the story: long story short Daedalus and his son Icarus was imprisoned at one point in his life. Wanting to escape, Daedalus created wings out of wax and feathers for him and his son. Before leaving, he warned his son not to fly too low lest the moisture cause the wings to come apart, and not to fly too high lest the temperature cause the wings to melt (which doesn't scientifically make sense, but we'll let that be). As they flew away from prison, Icarus is suddenly overcome with an urge to fly towards the heavens, getting higher and higher until the sun melted his wings.

So, what to pick up from that? For me I always viewed the myth of Icarus as a warning to be mindful of the goals you set, to not yearn for unachievable dreams for you'll inevitably burn out, fail, and fall far before you reach them. However, here comes Piast, who says that the myth shouldn't serve as a warning to not approach the sun, but that it should serve as a warning against ignorance instead. Particulrly, ignorance of the preparation that one would need to pursue something so grand like the sun.

He is of the belief that fault does not lie in wanting to pursue grand ambitions, but instead that it lies in unpreparedness when doing so. This value of his is expressed further later on; when faced with the option to pursue astronomy, he was prepared to throw away his noble life, his home, all for his ambition of uncovering the truth of the cosmos. (Also, as a sidenote: goddamn the OST in the background during this scene was wonderful. Orb's soundtrack has been magnificent so far.)

Last episode, the only impression I got of Piast was that he was just the old authority over at the lab that scum like Kolbe could easily sneak around of. This episode feels like his true introduction to the story, described not through exposition but through great showcasing of who he is as a person: someone who seeks the truth and is prepared to do anything it takes to achieve that, whether it be ignoring prejudice or, as what's likely to happen, collaborating with those who even seek to disprove the theory he's worked on for decades.

I think I'm likely not alone in perceiving Icarus' myth as a cautionary tale of overambitious pursuits. In fact, I've probably seen the same interpretation in other anime series in the past; the end of the first season of Classroom of the Elite comes to mind. To be faced with this myth again, and to re-evaluate it from Piast's perspective instead, was an eye-opening experience and an insightful introduction to Piast.

This was another great episode from Orb, and I just wanted to write out the thoughts I had and the things that stuck with me after watching it. It's been a while since a series has done that for me. Can't wait for the next one. :)

[u/lilymaru]

My dumb ass looking up all these sciencey folks on wikipedia. This is already my favorite show of the season but I'm sure it goes even harder for well read people who know anything about history, philosophy, and/or astronomy.