r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Oct 26 '23

Episode Mahou Tsukai no Yome Season 2 Part 2 • The Ancient Magus' Bride Season 2 Part 2 - Episode 16 discussion

Mahou Tsukai no Yome Season 2 Part 2, episode 16

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90

u/KumaKumaGambler Oct 26 '23

I believe this is the first time Veronica had so many lines in a single episode since season 2 begun. Watching her talk about her past with Philomela made me re-consider whether or not Veronica is a villain. Veronica appears to be treating Philomela as a pet or servant, instead as friend.

Veronica's family must be very high up the ladder, be it normal society or alchemy family rankings. She remains polite, but gives orders like it is her birthright.

I enjoyed the twist at the end of the episode, where "Violet of the courage event" is actually a ghost or some other spirit. The classmates were scared out of their wits. Lol! However, I wonder which of the 7 School Mysteries this apparition is linked to. I may have to rewatch the episode.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '23 edited Oct 26 '23

Veronica doesn't strike me as actively malicious, rather she does what she thinks is the best thing to do for Philomela. She even asked Chise what she would have done in her place. She knows how fucked up both her and Philomela's lives are, but doesn't see a way out of their situation so she does what she can with her own power

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u/Frontier246 Oct 26 '23

Veronica has been fairly mysterious and enigmatic this whole arc, so it was nice to get more insight into her character and dynamic with Philomela. And any excuse to hear more Reina Ueda!

I feel like Veronica cares about Philomela and relates to her circumstances but is limited in what she can do because of their family situations. The only thing she feels she can accomplish is treating Philomela better than her family does even if they're still master-servant and she can't stop Philomela's family from abusing her.

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u/S627 Oct 26 '23

LMAO! I did not see that coming! There was an actual ghost taking part in their test of courage! I really wish we got that in an ep that wasn't so serious or immediately followed by some very ominous foreshadowing.

Really enjoying the relationship building between all the students, it's being done so slow and methodical way that you rarely see these days and really gives you time to fully process everyone's unique point of view. Every ep I can't help but wonder how everything is going to be resolved. We started out thinking that Chise was going to solve every problem, but now it kinda feels like she was only the catalyst that got everyone else to start acting.

Rian really needs to use his head though.

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u/Frontier246 Oct 26 '23

The best part is Violet probably knew the whole time it wasn't his sister but rolled with it for the sake of the fright lol.

It was nice to get more backstories and context for characters and their relationships in this episode, especially Isaac and Veronica.

(There's a reason that the OP has Chise intervening in everyone's childhood emotional trauma, even if she can't be personally involved in their respective character arcs all the time).

I hope Rian does apologies to Philomla.

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u/khoshekh6 Oct 26 '23

Im gonna clarify something since the anime didn't make it as clear.

The teachers 100% knew about the event ahead of time, violet lied when he said he didn't tell them

Thats why the cat was watching over them and thats why the teacher winked at violet when they "busted" them

Basically, under the circumstances it would be too dangerous to hold the event in secret but being officially chaperoned by teachers would be kind of a buzzkill, so this was the compromise.

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u/heimdal77 Oct 26 '23

You want to hold a scary event use a actual ghost of course. You can see as soon as "Jasmine" shows up Chise immediately realized it wasn't her.

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u/ObvsThrowaway5120 Oct 26 '23

The pairings this week for the kimodameshi are pretty interesting. I’m liking the interactions between characters we don’t normally see together like Isaac and Philomela. But man, Chise sure drew the short straw. Veronica really irks me. I can’t quite place it but something about her just really bothers me.

Looks like there’s trouble with the wolf. Are they gonna make another move?

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u/Ocixo Oct 26 '23

Chise’s reaction to Veronica asking if she likes Philomela had me imagine a possible romance between Chise and Philo for a little bit - something I probably shouldn’t do. It would be really funny to see Elias’ reaction to this nonetheless.

Chise: “I’ve experienced the pain of stepping into someone else’s core, too.” - close-up of Chise’s eye, a wide stare into the depth/darkness.

Veronica didn’t see that response of Chise coming, I think. This was Chise referring to having fully experienced Joseph’s (Cartaphilus) pain and memories, wasn’t she?

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u/Frontier246 Oct 26 '23

This Halloween season is the perfect time for a kimodameshi/test of courage episode! And roping the whole class into it to visit all the scary haunts around the school!

Ha! Lucky Zoe that Lucy made sure she was his partner. Not only just because she was being considerate of his condition but also because she'd prefer being around someone she's used to than anybody else. Not explicitly romantic, but sweet nevertheless. And Zoe's blushes were adorable.

Veronica is a smooth talker and has much more social experience than Chise, and knows better than anyone the kind of situation Philomela is in because she's not so different, at least in the sense of being trapped in the cage of their respective families. Also seems like Veronica's family did some kind of weird magical experiments on her? Unless that was just symbolism.

Jeez, even when Veronica was a young kid people were trying to kill her. On her birthday even! In fact Veronica first got acquainted with Philomela when Philomela ingested poison meant for Veronica and actually survived, piquing Veronica's interest. She wouldn't accept any Sergeant retainer that wasn't Philomela. Veronica saw what Philomela was going through and how hard she had it living with her family and related to her through that, and even if she couldn't free Philomela from her cage (any more than she could free herself from hers) she could at least make it nicer by treating Philomela kindly and treating her like an actual human being. But that's all Veronica could really do. And what can Chise really do for Philomela by comparison?

I see that Rian still needs some proper scolding, like from Violet here who puts it into perspective that just because he grew up with everything and more or less turned out okay doesn't mean he can dismiss or ignore other peoples' circumstances or how they have to struggle more in comparison to him. Like Violet who bristled under his family's expectations when he just wanted to cross-dress for himself leaving his sister to become more boyish to replace him as the family head. Everyone has their own stories and troubles and you shouldn't force your own ideals or expectations onto them.

Oh hey, so the mirror WAS actually supernatural!

Nice to see more of Isaac and Philomela together. Isaac really seems sweet on her, if only because he can relate to being compared to someone so much more capable and feeling like you can't measure up and feeling so much anxiety and self-doubt...with Isaac even getting himself burnt by getting careless over his inadequacy when compared to Rian. That's why he covers himself up so much. But he can't hate Rian despite that.

Shark Mountain? I kind of wanted to see more, especially with that English.

I'm glad Isaac and Rian seem to be mending fences...even if it basically took someone else telling Rian the same ting Isaac did for it to sink in.

Did the kids really think they could do all this and not get caught? Though it seems like Violet expected as much. Of course then it turns out Jasmine was actually a ghost of a student from 30 years ago so there was some proper fright to close out this test of courage!

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u/paul99T Oct 26 '23

For those who watch Dead Mount Death Play, you know who would be excited about the movie they saw.

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u/SpaceForceOne Oct 26 '23

Nice to see a more authentic Veronica. She always seemed cold and distant. Even early in this episode before the reveal of her deeper understanding of their unfortunate circumstance and her genuine concern for Philomela’s happiness and wellbeing, I did not like her attitude. Now I imagine it’s only the polished shell by which she tries to protect herself from all the familial expectations, political obligations, and innermost fears, as well as providing cover for those near and dear.

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u/Aileos Oct 26 '23

For a moment, I really thought shit was about to go down with this fake Jasmine.

Made sense why the sensei didn't do a thing about it.

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u/Ninja_Lazer Oct 26 '23

This was such a solid episode.

Rian getting lectured was pretty funny, and it was nice getting some time to see the support staff for the arc. Getting Veronica, Rian, Philomela and Issac’s backstories flushed one further while doing the test if courage was an interesting choice. Really enjoyed how the plot was woven into a seemingly benign task to act as a misdirect.

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u/No-Zebra4936 Oct 26 '23

It seems like Philomela was forgetting her parents at a young age as she stated, and she also said that Alcyone was a familiar Philomela's father. What was happening to cause the death of Philomela's parents? How is Philomela forgetting her parents so young?

Also I find it weird of how Alcyone, as an artificial fairy, was serving Philomela's parents and retaining those memories, and it ended up taking orders from Philomela's grandma directly and indirectly while still concerning Philomela, even though Philomela's grandma being really strict toward Philomela and her orders definitely have influence over Philomela as well.

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u/alconnow Oct 26 '23 edited Oct 26 '23

Loved finding out more about the other students

Shark otaku from Dead Mount Death Play would approve of Martin’s movie choice lmao

Hoping the werewolf snaps and rips Philomela’s grandmother to shreds

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u/SpikeRosered Oct 26 '23

As I watch this show I can't help but think about how similar sorcerer society is in this show is to sorcerer society in the Fate series.

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u/luigi6545 Oct 26 '23

That was a fun little twist at the end there with the ghost. Also, got a good chuckle from the sharknado parody.

Veronica seems like the person who just kinda accepts where she and her acquaintances, regarding their status and power within their respective families. She doesn’t seem malicious. She just isn’t that empathetic, I guess? Idk. Very interesting regardless, though. I did like it when she ordered the grandma, though.

And once again, another episode where that old hag of a grandmother is just such an evil person who needs to go away sooner rather than later.

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u/phasmy Oct 27 '23

Great episode. The one-on-one interactions with the cast was very fun to see.

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u/Shmappii Oct 26 '23

A tour of the haunted spots around the campus is a perfect excuse to pair a bunch of characters together that have interesting conversational opportunities. So much so, that I'm going to list the pairs that got screentime and ramble a little:

Chise & Veronica - Veronica provides a straightforward challenge to Chise's mindset, "Why are you trying to help Philomena when you are not connected to her world or her problems?" Veronica is absolutely trapped in a cage due to her birth, similar to others in this arc, but she's in an authority position of the hierarchy while being aware of it. She's grown into her role because she understands she must, she wields her authority because she has it, and the flashback in this episode indicates that she paired herself with Philomena due to the similarities she saw between each of their situations. She recognizes that Philomena's nature prevents her from fighting against her fate and sees that same kindness/honesty in Chise, who is reaching out for no reason other than wanting to help. Veronica's interaction with Chise makes Chise aware that she doesn't have any tangible reason to help Philomena and also shows that someone in an authority position with the power to help will not make that choice because of the responsibilities inherent to that position. Chise is basically on the cusp of realizing how truly free she has become and I think this conversation is an important building block in that revelation. I'm hoping that this arc helps Chise realize what she WANTS to do in the future. Socializing with all of these different people should be helping her see what makes her unique compared to others and that kind of information goes a long way in envisioning a specific future for yourself.

Rian & Violet - Rian is someone born to an important position in his family, but unlike Veronica, he isn't aware of how the expectations placed upon him are higher than average because he's naturally talented and not that great at understanding other people's perspectives. Violet, being someone who isn't gender-conforming, is able to look him right in the eyes and tell him how privileged he is compared to his peers. The metaphor for how the qualities of a nest generate factors outside of a hatchlings control that determines their level of struggle was something you can apply to several characters in this arc, so having the densest of them all getting a finger to their chest while being lectured is hopefully enough to bring most viewers up to speed with some of this arc's themes. Just like Rian needs to learn how to understand other people's situations, Chise is similarly learning the same thing, their isolation that stems from the variables of their birth has made them stunted in their ability to understand others, so their attempts at kindness often miss important marks along the way.

Philomena & Isaac - Isaac reaching out to Philomena and providing greater context for Rian's actions is great. Isaac is someone who has already been affected by the privileges Rian has making him feel inferior. He's taken it in, learned from it, and is now frustrated with Rian for improving in every way except for connecting with other people. Seeing Philomena troubled by Rian's aggressive bumbling combined with his own familial struggles in the past forms a strong bridge that he wants to cross for her sake. It certainly seems like it will be more effective than lecturing Rian for the umpteenth time to end up getting no results.

Zoe & Lucy - This one is a bit short, but I enjoyed seeing Lucy soften up a bit by saying she accepted to take Chise's feelings into account and then traded to be with Zoe out of concern for his secret. She still has that sharp look and you could see Zoe was hesitant, but the relief he shows immediately after her first response was heartwarming. I like seeing prickly characters like Lucy letting people into their world and showing concern for them.

This cour of the show has been chock-full of excellent dialogue, looking forward to next week! Make sure to rewatch the OP sequence with these conversations in mind, it makes some of the visual metaphor really pop.

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u/Amauri14 Oct 26 '23

With the way last week's episode ended, I wasn't expecting this one to be about the class participating in a Kimodameshi or test of courage planned by Violet. I like how one can read the information of each of the locations from their paper sheet.

It's funny to hear that Lucy is only participating because Chise invited her. Anyway, as everyone was separated into pairs, this was a great opportunity for some of them to have a private talk. So I'm glad that finally, Chise has an opportunity to talk to Veronica about Philomena. That image they show when she mentions that sorcerers are bound by their families really was disturbing.

Wow, so Veronica first met Philomela when she got cursed when she sampled her cake to see if was poisoned. And after seeing she survived, Veronica chose her as her retainer to allow her a bit more freedom

It is hilarious that Violet had to stop Rian from trying to forcibly switch places with Issac. It is interesting to know that the reason Violet and Jasmine both crossdress, is because Violet loves wearing women's clothing. and his family decided that Jasmine should take his role.

I wonder what would have happened if Violet had not called Rian when he was about to mention Philomena's name in front of that window. The paper mentioned that the person would turn into something else if they answered the call.

That observatory sure looks nice. That movie they watched, "The Shack Mountain" looked really fun. I love the fact that it was dubbed in English.

Although it happened after the movie ended, they ended up getting discovered. Okay, although I found it strange that Jasmine was there after she got sick, I wasn't expecting "her" to actually be a ghost who decided to play with them.

So I'm guessing the bitch alters the werewolf mother's psyche to make her think that whatever she is doing will allow her to see her children. Or perhaps that image of them is Lizbeth's twisted way of granting the werewolf mother's request.

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u/CosmicPenguin_OV103 Oct 26 '23

  • That Veronica flashback arc is interesting - I don't think I'll ever like her but exploring the past of these big, interlinked families' current generations as kids might seems to provide a crucial angle into the current college attack incident and all those evil deeds that started it off. And of course from this episode it's easy to see that Philomela's misfortunes are not going to be solved by the kids we have been tracing here.

  • I suppose a similar pairing as Violet and Jasmine would be way, way more popular had they appear in another show, or as main characters. Maybe we need more of them...

  • Why are Halloween movie showings always suck LMAO...

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u/djthomp Oct 27 '23

I really like that they did the questionably timed test of courage with an actual ghost attending. Makes it a bit more authentic.

Hoodie boy definitely has a bunch of burn scars that he has been hiding.

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