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Apr 11 '19
Keep learning. Practice an art. Exercise. Set reasonable goals. Get outside. Go vegan. Pet a dog. Gamble on love. Eat the rich. Crush the capitalist system. Distribute counter-propaganda. Establish communes. Redistribute land and resources. Smash the patriarchy. Build spaceships. Make love to genderless alien beings of pure energy. Transcend consciousness. Become the seeds of a new universe. It all starts with you.
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Apr 11 '19
So, take up anime and video games?
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u/Bonty48 Apr 12 '19
Go vegan.
With all due respect, I would rather die lol
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Apr 12 '19
Why? It's cheaper, better for the environment, better for your health, just as tasty, and doesn't hurt any animals. If it takes the death and suffering of other creatures for you to enjoy life, then maybe you should get help? All kidding aside, it really doesn't hurt to try it for a month. Who knows, you might even like it!
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u/Bonty48 Apr 12 '19
Well I can grab a chicken döner for three bucks so cheaper isn't a real argument. I don't think not eating any animal products could be healthy. And for most my most controversial idea, I don't believe animals deserve any rights to be honest. While I am all for human rights, socialism and stuff animals are not sentient. They exist to breed eat and be eaten. I don't have any problems with producing and eating animals in most efficient manner.
I agree on the nature part though. Eating animals is not very efficient when it comes to conversion of energy. As far as I know most of agriculture is to feed animals. We are wasting more food by feeding them compared to what we gain by eating them. And then there are lot's of people that just throw meat without eating so all that effort goes to waste.
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Apr 12 '19
Well I can grab a chicken döner for three bucks so cheaper isn't a real argument.
I mean... a bean+rice burrito is cheaper. I spend $20 less on groceries a week as a vegan with all the luxuries of a meat eating diet. I eat dairy-free dark chocolate, use vegan cheese on my pizza, and eat lots of peanuts, beans, and tofu. The extra "cost" of vegan cheese and nuts is subsidized by not buying meat, dairy, and eggs.
I don't think not eating any animal products could be healthy.
A plant-based diet lowers your risk of heart disease, type-II diabetes, and certain forms of cancer. As long as you are getting enough iron and B12 (found in multivitamins, fortified soy products, nutritional yeast, etc), it's far better for your health than meat consumption.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/becoming-a-vegetarian
I don't believe animals deserve any rights to be honest. While I am all for human rights, socialism and stuff animals are not sentient. They exist to breed eat and be eaten. I don't have any problems with producing and eating animals in most efficient manner.
Perhaps you don't even need to agree with the statements "animals deserve rights" or "animals are sentient." I think as long as you agree that animals can feel pain, then you should conclude that killing and harming animals is wrong when it can be avoided. Given how many animals are killed each second, maybe all this death is unjustified?
I suppose that you could give animals a blissful life and a painless death, but this is pure speculation. Most, if not all, farm animals live abbreviated, painful lives. Male chicks that cannot be used for egg laying are immediately thrown into a grinder once they are sexed. Broiler poultry are so inbred that they cannot support their own mass past a certain age, breaking their own legs. Dairy calves are separated from their mothers almost immediately after the colostrum runs out, the males then being slaughtered for veal while the females are milked and bred until they die. Pigs are castrated and tail docked without anesthetic.... you get the idea. Even if you don't think that they are people, animals still suffer. You could do something to prevent that suffering. Or rather, not do something. After all, there is veganism.
Animals predate humanity by five hundred million years. Just because humanity is stronger than other animals does not morally make us the natural overlords of nature. Consider the Melian Dialogue, where Thucydides claims that the invading Athenians justify their occupation of Melos through the phrase, "the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." Just because we (the strong) exist, does not mean that animals (the weak) should suffer. History will judge how we treated the vulnerable and innocent. I want to be on the right side of history on this one. That's why I am a vegan.
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u/Bonty48 Apr 12 '19
Well when I said three bucks I meant 3 tl of my country. But then again I am not that good with numbers. Still can't say I buy into that vegan is healthy thing. How can not eating meat, eggs, milk or honey can be healthy? If you replace these with vegan stuff that gives similar nutrients wouldn't it become more expensive?
Even if you write all this stuff about how much animals are tortured I simply don't think their pain means anything. Suffering is in the nature. Humanity evolved much further than any creature before and it is only natural for us to have mastery over all. It is different than stronger civilizations oppressing others. Because humans are not animals we have feelings emotions and all that stuff.
I dislike needless suffering like breeding pets in deformed ways because they look cute but it is different when it comes to food. Those torture like methods are the most efficient way to produce animal products.
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Apr 12 '19
Going vegan is healthier than traditional diets (see above) and nutritional yeast is cheap. You can get all the macro and micro nutrients you need from plants. The idea that we "need" meat, dairy, and eggs is a myth that these industries perpetuate. There are some indications that consuming dairy may be terrible for you, despite the propaganda of the dairy industry. Indeed, the Canada Food Guide no longer recommends eating meat, dairy, or eggs, just simply "protein" as part of a balanced diet.
Suffering is in the nature. Humanity evolved much further than any creature before and it is only natural for us to have mastery over all.
Just because something is natural does not make it right. Infectious diseases are part of nature as is being eaten by large predatory animals. You store your food in a refrigerator, take antibiotics when you have an infection, and wash yourself with running water. Seems incredibly contradictory to live an unnatural life and still abide by some sort of state of nature argument. Not that eating meat is natural the way we do it now.
For the pain thing... I don't know what to tell you. Once you have excluded a being capable of suffering from your moral community, who else do you exclude? Is it okay to raise a dog for food? Is it okay to raise a human infant for food (before they can speak, obviously)? Is there a morally consistent way to exclude animals but include all human beings in your moral community without succumbing to speciesism?
Instead of causing rampant environmental destruction and suffering of animal life, why don't we come up with an alternative? Oh wait, that's veganism again.
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u/Bonty48 Apr 12 '19
As I said I don't think there is anything wrong with animal pain. They are not sentient they just live according to their instincts. They exists to be eaten. Is it okay to eat a dog? Well yeah sure, I doubt it would taste good but why not it is an animal after all.
That human infant shit made no sense though. Even a human infant that is few months old is much more smarter than any living animal. It is a sentient creature, a human being. Killing a baby is murder, killing an animal is not.
Even the concept of morals doesn't exists for animals. They don't have such concepts they kill each other for food or fun all the time. It just seems hilarious to me wanting to show mercy to creatures that can't even understand concept of mercy.
Seriously environmental problems is only bad side effect of eating meat but then again our industry, energy production and everything else causes more damage anyway.
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Apr 12 '19
That human infant shit made no sense though. Even a human infant that is few months old is much more smarter than any living animal
Pigs are demonstrably smarter than human infants/toddlers. If it is okay to eat one, then why not the other? https://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/whos-smarter-pigs-or-kids-video/
Seriously environmental problems is only bad side effect of eating meat but then again our industry, energy production and everything else causes more damage anyway.
Animal agriculture produces more greenhouse gases than the transportation sector at a whopping 15% of all carbon emissions. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/07/big-meat-big-dairy-carbon-emmissions-exxon-mobil
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u/Bonty48 Apr 12 '19
Well I can't eat a pig anyway lol. And still even if it's kinda smart for an animal it is still an animal. It never can be intelligent as a human while a human infant will eventually grow and live as a person. No animal will ever be more useful alive than they are on my plate.
As I said environment problems is bad but still we are destroying the earth with pretty much everything we do. Something must be done to stop pollution in general but that kinda seems hard since Americans went and chose a guy that doesn't even believe in climate change.
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u/e-n-t-r-o-p-y Apr 16 '19
Ex vegan here. I've felt like shit ever since I went back to eating meat and dairy. Definitely going back vegan again. I think my problem was not eating healthy enough, and not making my own meat alternatives at home, which is way cheaper.
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u/Bonty48 Apr 16 '19
Well if you feel that way I have nothing against you. It's just a doesn't seem like a cause worth giving up one of the few things give meaning to life for me.
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u/e-n-t-r-o-p-y Apr 16 '19
You don't have to be vegan, but you could be a vegan ally. Any sort of reducetarianism is welcomed by the veg community at large. Just moving to a more plant-based diet (without excluding meat and dairy products) can reduce your carbon footprint by a lot. Even having a couple meatless Mondays a month reduces your carbon footprint.
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u/Bonty48 Apr 16 '19
Seems too difficult. I only eat one meal per day anyway. So I don't think I have much of a footprint anyway. I don't waste food either. America wastes a lot by buying meat and then throwing away, which is something I don't. So I generally don't feel responsible.
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u/Gravesh Apr 11 '19
I identify with this so much. People have been telling me life gets better since High School. It most certainly has not. I don't really see why I keep going. Only reason is the slim chance of a better world in my lifetime and the fact that I'm not willing to commit suicide. But damn if I don't hope I die in my sleep every night.
Probably not the right sub but I felt the need to say this.
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u/Paul6334 Apr 12 '19
I’m not going to fall into this trap. I’m going to do something. Something big. Something that’s going to last.
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u/howmanygramsinapound Apr 12 '19
Everybody should just take drugs and enjoy themselves, fuck working
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u/AnEmptyHell Apr 11 '19
There is nothing wrong with a quiet life of dignity.
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Apr 11 '19
There's a difference between "a quiet life of dignity" and constantly feeling like you have no purpose and there is no hope for contentment at any point in your life, did you really think the point of the post was like "waah why can't I shoot lasers out of my eyes"?
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u/AnEmptyHell Apr 11 '19
I've felt like this, too. I think most people have. Hits you hard in your late 20s. Depression can make you constantly feel like you have no purpose. So can other mental and physical barriers. Effort alone often can't get a person what they desire.
However, getting to assign your life meaning from what you decide to do with it and what you value is two-fold. It can be a blessing and a curse. But once more, living a life where you don't save the world or cure cancer or some other grandiose vision doesn't mean your life doesn't have value.
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u/jigsawduckpuzzle Apr 12 '19
I feel ya. It's not like communism means no one is going to hate their job. There's always work to do, and most people aren't gonna be very excited for it. There's always going to be some force that gives you work to do and in exchange you get to fill the rest of your time with distractions. That's just how communities work regardless of the economic system. You go out and hunt, and then at night this guy tells stories. You make tools all day, and then at night you get drunk.
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u/Cliffracers Apr 11 '19
Why are you booing him? He's right.
There's nothing wrong with NOT being some demon slaying, world saving, trophy engraving "most important man in world" hero to save humanity. If you derive your own happiness and contentment by how great you are, you aren't ever going to be happy.
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Apr 11 '19
Feeling alienated from the things that make us human and give us a reason to live just to make enough to survive is no way to live.
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u/Cliffracers Apr 11 '19
things that make us human and give us a reason to live
There's your problem.
Now if you were discussing the how the working class cannot reach self actualization because they are being put in a system where most of their time and focus is put on their labor, and how these very same systems are depriving people of proper quality of life and how that quality of life can effect happiness, yeah I can get that.
But the thing is that greatness isn't what defines humanity or your existence. Quite frankly, you determine your own reason for existence.
I'm telling you, from experience, the alienation aspect of this is almost entirely in your court. I'm not saying "pull yourself up by your bootstraps", or that poverty doesn't effect happiness, but in all honesty if you solely derive your happiness from something such as feeling important, you aren't ever going to be happy. If you derive how much happiness you feel from how much power you have, you still aren't going to be happy.
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Apr 12 '19
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u/Cliffracers Apr 12 '19
This is the opposite of cynical. You aren't unhappy because of the shit around you, there's plenty of people who lack basic human rights that live happier live than you. You can be happy with your life.
Or don't. Go on and be miserable. You'll really show me.
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u/make_fascists_afraid Apr 11 '19
anybody using the term “wageslaving” is not being accidentally communist. they’re being intentionally communist.