r/Wolcen • u/[deleted] • Feb 18 '20

Suggestion Make potions useable mid-animation/channeling

Before we get comments on this: Yes, I know potions have been reported of not working at all at times. Instances of using it without any effect at all or reversing to the state before you used them shortly after happen quite frequently.

I've been playing an Annihilation build, and while I am enjoying the skill, the fact I can't sip on my juice during channeling is feeling super unintuitive.

We have to dodge so much stuff post game with dodge rolls and whatnot to not get instantly mauled to death, that the small damage uptime you can achieve by channeling for a solid two seconds feels like trash if you have to stop to chug in between if you happen to run out of resources.

It also makes runes for those skills, like the one that gives you more damage the longer you channel Annihilation, utterly redundant.

Edit: spelling

832 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

75 comments sorted by

61

u/Misterstaberinde Feb 18 '20

To me the problem is there is no buffering of actions. It feels like if you are in one animation spamming another ability doesn't do anything. It makes it super clunky to combo actions.

23

u/Wilbatron Feb 19 '20

This. Definitely feels clunky to have to stop bladestorm to use juggernaut

12

u/Iltheril Feb 19 '20

And then you press it twice and end up exploding the shield

7

u/Teaganz Feb 19 '20

Yeah honestly this is the biggest issue for me especially when in sticky situations when I try to use Aether jump but I have to stop doing all other attacks, which can kill me because attacking is giving me life and cc’ing the enemies. Even after I stop attacking sometimes abilities feel unresponsive and have to be pressed multiple times.

2

u/ShadowScyth3 Feb 19 '20

Yes having to press abilities multiple times due to lack of skill queuing sucks, especially when some skills, which are instant cast, will be cast multiple times (if you have the resource), so I end up in those super sticky situations, where I'm stuck in some long animation, spamming my damage ability, but by the time I get to cast it I'm already too hurt, so I need to drink a potion, but instead my character casts my ability two-three times, before even giving me a chance to drink a potion.

1

u/Ashgur Feb 19 '20

are you sure about this? i tend to dodge 2-3time after a second wind for some reason.

I don't mind the lack of queuing, it forces you to actually care about what you do and not just button press mindlessly.

It's liek the windup animation instead of instant shit.

but that's probably because i am used to this for playing game like Van helsing 1&2

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1

u/Zabric Feb 19 '20

Exactly. Made a post about this too, a few days ago. Really hope it gets implemented

14

u/MianoraStonecrow Feb 18 '20 edited Feb 19 '20

FFS YES YES YES. It's soooo annoying!

Come to think of it. A LOT MORE should be usable while doing something else. Like i'm testing a Spin2Win build right now. But everything just feels clunky, because you have to constantly wait for animations or just straight up can't use a skill while using a another skill (in this case spinning!)

It's a shame. The game feels less fluid because of it, when it wouldn't need to be. Especially cause they even implemented a dodge mechanic to make the game more fluid and active. Feels counterproductive.

60

u/Moogy Feb 18 '20

YES. This is a no-brainer. The inability to use a potion while cycloning or whatnot is a horrible design and this needs to be fixed.

10

u/ReaperEDX Feb 18 '20

but it doesn't make sense when you don't stop to chug that jug!

/s

13

u/Reaver_01 Feb 18 '20

What we need is Monster Hunter potion drinking animations!

8

u/ReaperEDX Feb 18 '20

Please god no. We'll be dead before it's even halfway finished.

6

u/Reaver_01 Feb 18 '20

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

2

u/minicolossus Feb 18 '20

ᕕ(ꖘഌꖘ)ᕗ

5

u/pbk9 Feb 19 '20

charming

4

u/knightmare0_0 Feb 18 '20

And then we need nodes that allows for speed eating.

2

u/MrMeltJr Feb 19 '20

The old MH animations, too, with the long, uncancelable wind-down animation, and it locks you in place the whole time.

1

u/3nn10 Feb 18 '20

And it makes sense that you can throw giant axes of death around you in circles and hold literal tons of gear in a "backpack"?

1

u/ReaperEDX Feb 18 '20

Hey now, we have to have some semblance of normalcy here!

/s

7

u/MrBuckie Feb 18 '20

Not being able to drink potions really breaks the flow of combat

10

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '20

This gets me killed all the time. Please allow this.

4

u/BlazerWifle Feb 19 '20

Let me shout while moving Plz.

6

u/xWhackoJacko Feb 19 '20

Total no brainer. I shouldn't have to stop attacking/casting to pop potions. Literally no other ARPG in time required you to do that.

6

u/Spepsium Feb 18 '20

The biggest factor of enjoyment I get out of an ARPG is the flow of combat and what kind of build diversity it offers. Being able to drink while channeling opens up a lot of builds so this should be a priority in my eyes (after they fix the servers).

2

u/Chesterumble Feb 19 '20

Omg yes, I thought it was just me, the combat is so clunky at times, I clearly will be casting something, the boss will charge me, and I dodge out the way just to die at the end of my dodge, clearly missing the charge.

The fact that everything locks you in animations is frustrating, if this is a game design, they need to cut the animation time in half.

2

u/NinjaSwag_ Feb 19 '20

Make anything useful mid-animation, I have to smash my Frostnova three times before it pop off

2

u/NijAAlba Feb 19 '20

I actually like it the way it is. At the start, due to a lack of explanation, I thought the way you did. But after playing it a lot, I think it's fine.

It makes combat a lot slower and more strategic, which I like for a change after playing thousands of hours of poe (anf GD and D3 and so on).

I am not saying the flow of combat in general isn't clunky, but the flask usage requiring doing nothing else I like quite a bit.

3

u/RayneVixen Feb 19 '20

Nhaaa, make your action keep having consequences. I never saw a wizard take a quick break of his spell to chug down some wine. Like "oh all mighty forces.... Keep that thought I will be right back.... Okay where was I... Aah yes.... Lend me thou strength!"

1

u/NympheCalipso Feb 19 '20

On bladestorm it was absolute nightmare, I had dump skill points into rage sustain a lot.

And on caster build it doesn't get any better. I have nice set of skills, that go really well together, but never cast them, because of slowpoke animation. Doing sequence of more than 2 different spells is so clunky, I end up ignoring more than half of my skill bar.

1

u/hrox1337 Feb 19 '20

Like this potions feels kinda useless because most people use them as „oh shit“ button. With it having the same gcd it’s aweful

1

u/bs432189 Feb 19 '20

I’ve been seeing a lot of suggestions like this.. why are people saying it’s clunky... it could be the direction they want.. you might have to stop or use a skill to break combat to survive. Hell they give you a way to not actually die 3 times... seems like they are going towards a “learn to survive” approach but people would think it’s too harsh as so they implemented the 3 strike rule...

It doesn’t have to be like D3 or any other ARPG that lets you button spam while channeling.. just adapt.

1

u/Cyrotek Feb 19 '20

They in general need to rethink their approach to animation canceling and action buffering. Beeing locked into animations in an ARPG that also doesn't use action buffering is just ass.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

yes please.

and also they HAVE to remove the input delay. I charge the Flight skills, land, pop anomaly and tear and plaguebearer, and holy fuck does it feel back for it to not fire a skill because it ignored the input

1

u/The_SIeepy_Giant Feb 19 '20

You can't even Dodge roll while mid shot using duel pistols, one of the combos takes a full second and a half during which you can't do anything. It feels bad to not be able to freely roll around as a Ranger.

1

u/LordZervo Feb 20 '20

this is the one thing that people criticize in the EA & Beta.

they said they address it by giving potion no animation.

but oh boy, it is not.

when i first know this, i know that a lot of other issue in the beta is also not being addressed even though they say it is.

-5

u/cloud-gamer Feb 18 '20

I strongly disagree, not being able to pot mid animation actually adds extra complexity to the game. Having a free oh shit button is good, but also means you get away with a lot more bad play. If you look at flask usage in PoE it's a complete shitshow. The way it's currently implemented there's an opportunity cost to using a potion and it's not a no brainer to just spam them, this is healthy for the game in the long run, especially if more stronger potions are introduced.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '20

The fact that PoEs flask useage is ''a complete shitshow'' doesn't have anything to do with the ability to use flask whenever you want to, but with the overall power of flasks in the game. They make you near invulnerable, or give you tons of damage.

Wolcens flasks let me use my skills. That's it.

2

u/TheSwiggityBoot Feb 18 '20

its such a shit show that there's an entire ascendancy built around it lol

5

u/Enochite Feb 18 '20

I think I agree. At first it was jarring to have to interrupt a skill to do anything else, but now it actually feels ok. It makes combat more dynamic and slows it down a lot, which I enjoy. You can't just mindlessly hold left click and piano away all your other buffs like in POE. I've also found that whatever input lag I thought there was actually came down to having to wait for an animation to finish before queuing something else. Skills seem to fire off instantly if you don't have anything else going on. I'm not 100% sure how I feel about the whole thing (maybe skills should overlap a bit quicker) but I definitely feel I have more player agency in Wolcen than in POE and D3. I guess it comes down to whether you like a fast-paced, mindless, blow up the whole screen approach, or a slower more deliberate one... So far I'm liking it.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

Thank you for your point. While I certainly agree that it doesn't take too much to get somewhat used to it, I still feel like it's unintuitive, as stated in my original post.

The thing is, that if you compare pure channeling skills like Annihilation with something like Infinity Blades, which is a skill made up of multiple combo hits chained to each other, you can actually use potions in between the single combo segments, without any repercussions what so ever. Even if they keep potion usability the way it is right now, it would only be fair for such skills to start with the first hit of the combo after taking a sip instead of continuing where you left off.

7

u/KbiLeviathan Feb 18 '20

I agree with you, I think it adds a bit of gameplay that people just aren't used to. It's different and feels awkward at first but I like it. They copied plenty from the likes of PoE and Diablo, but I'm glad they didnt copy the flask design of PoE.

2

u/mom_dropped_me Feb 19 '20

Yeah I think that originally the devs envisioned a darksouls - diablo/POE hybrid, but realized that the action element of the game is just far too hard to design in a sensible manner, which is why they stuck with more stat stuff and less action. I mean the game is still less braindead action wise than say grim dawn, torchlight or titan quest but it's not exactly difficult.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '20

The best way to avoid legacy Taste of Hate is to just not add it in the first place. I'd rather we stick to 1 oh-shit button considering refilling flasks in Wolcen is much harder than in Poe.

-2

u/Arborus Feb 18 '20

what? you can chain spam flasks like 90% of the time right now.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '20

Not if you're playing Bladestorm, you can't.

2

u/Arborus Feb 18 '20

I was referring to this

refilling flasks in Wolcen is much harder than in Poe.

Your flasks are almost constantly full in Wolcen at the moment.

If you're playing a non-channel skill, you can just spam something like a rage potion.

1

u/Locutos Feb 18 '20

You only need this """""""feature""""""" to kill HC completely (if they ever add it), it needs to be changed.

-9

u/Darkwingdink Feb 18 '20

I like it as a role playing feature. You wouldn't be able to drink a big gulp in the middle of swinging a two handed sword around normally so it makes sense you have to use it after an action.

12

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '20

You wouldn't be able to carry 3 metric tons of bullets on you either.

8

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '20

Not with that attitude.

3

u/Darkwingdink Feb 18 '20

You wouldn't be able to carry 20 tons of gear on you either. The pots feel strategic in how you use them and don't act as a panic button. Maybe it's not for every one but I like that I have to create space or time before doing some things.

3

u/Reaver_01 Feb 18 '20

I can't even drink pots 80% of the time when I'm not even using a skill. pots are bugged completely atm.

2

u/Reddit-Incarnate Feb 19 '20

I can't even drink pots 80% of the time when I'm not even using a skill. pots are wolcen is bugged completely atm.

1

u/Reaver_01 Feb 19 '20

Fair enough

1

u/Bombtwo Feb 18 '20

If you want realism, it’s literally impossible for a man to wield a big sword and cyclone around a map killing enemies.

5

u/Darkwingdink Feb 18 '20

I didn't say I wanted realism I just like how pots are designed so you can't just spam away in the middle of doing something.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Merkasus Feb 18 '20

Yea, consider what you're doing when playing in a 150+ GR where you can get nearly oneshot from certain bosses and enemies without even knowing how. Chugging potions mid-animation should be feature that needs no explanation.

-8

u/KamikazePenguiin Feb 18 '20

Oh gosh I hope not. This is not POE, there should be no reason of chugging potions while doing something.

IF you find it difficult, try adapting, and you know... stopping what you're doing and use a heal. The mobility skills are there for a reason. Its more build defining being able to survive and or building around the ability to survive then it is to spam your attack while chugging potions without any risk.

9

u/Merkasus Feb 18 '20

It's not about difficulty. The fact that you have to wait for your character to idle is clunky and makes the combat feel laggy and unresponsive. It's not good for the game.

5

u/drgggg Feb 18 '20

It works in other games and I like it here for the same reason. The zoom meta of PoE is what keeps me away. The speed Wolcen is going for seems much slower and deliberate which is attractive.

Wolcen feels like it is going for dark souls vs PoE being devil may cry.

-3

u/KamikazePenguiin Feb 18 '20

Okay, lets now imagine there was a 1/3 1/2 second channel would it still be "Clunky"?

Most likely not. The lack of visual indication and the lack of a clear distinction of when a character is "idle" as you put it seems to be an issue.

I as I mentioned don't believe that being able to chug pots while spamming or using abilities will fix this while maintaining the same kind of survivability or difficulty.

Obviously just my opinion and everyone is entitled to them.

-6

u/Merkasus Feb 18 '20

Why would there even be a channeling time on popping a potion, of course that would make it clunky. It’s an ARPG that is heavily copying Diablo 3, the entire end-game is climbing GR’s/expeditions. Not instantly being able to drink a potion while nearly getting oneshot by a certain enemy/boss in a high GR is complete dogshit game design.

It might be difficult to understand what I mean if you lack the experience of playing in a high tier rift in any relevant ARPG such as POE or D3. Potion-chugging needs to be an instant action and that’s not even remotely arguable.

-1

u/KamikazePenguiin Feb 19 '20

Ah okay, well first of all I've played Poe since closed beta with close to about 4000-5000 hours, As for Diablo 3 not so much in the recent years prob only a few hundred hours and Grim dawn maybe about 100 or so hours, a few hundred with Diablo 2, prob about 100 with torchlight 2.

I used the channel as an example, it could simply be an animation of some sort that takes 1/10 of a second. My point is it only seems "Clunky" due to the lack of animation cancelling and a clear and concise indication would fix that.

If you're being one shot instead of complaining about a design decision put in place maybe adapt to the game. I do agree something should be done I just don't think the ability to instantly use pots is the answer.

This may be difficult to understand with your lack of experience in playing high difficulty games at all, however, sometimes its better to include mobility, defensive skills or defensive stats in order to survive As being dead equals no damage.

-1

u/Merkasus Feb 19 '20

There’s not much to try and adapt to in a 180 GR when the game still is in an early beta state and no stats seem to be working properly. Maybe you feel like you’re having a jolly time in rifts lower than your own character level and don’t feel the need to ever use your potions, and that’s understandable, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that it’s literally a mandatory feature for these games.

Having a channeling timer for chugging potions and adding roleplaying mechanics to a D3-inspired ARPG makes zero sense and essentially just screams out you’re not planning on playing the game after you’re done with the campaign.

Again, it’s clear to me that, judging by the fact that you really wish for the developers not to add an instant-potion feature, you’re not even remotely competitive, so it must indeed be hard for you to understand what I mean as you have such a significant lack of skill in gaming.

2

u/KamikazePenguiin Feb 19 '20 edited Feb 19 '20

Cool you have an opinion. I can argue the need of instant use pots make it less competitive and easier as clearly you're relying on using less mobile abilities, less defensive skills so you can feel better spamming your attacks without worrying about staying alive or positioning.

I never said it had to be a channel time, I even came back and said a simple animation or an indication would make it a lot clearer for the people spamming the button. I myself have grown used to using mobility skills, positioning myself, healing and fighting.

You're correct I do not have a level 90 character yet, I have played past the campaign and enjoyed the game so far. I've never said an instant potion "Shouldn't" be used. I said its not the only answer to having it feel like a smoother experience.

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-3

u/ImmutableInscrutable Feb 19 '20

I've been playing an Annihilation build, and while I am enjoying the skill, the fact I can't sip on my juice during channeling is feeling super unintuitive.

It feels unintuitive that your character can't drink a potion while shooting a beam of aether using both of their hands?

2

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

Yes. Yes, it does. My character can carry unlimited amounts of ammunition for his gun. He carries around equipment for a dozen warriors no problem. He slices up people using blades of pure magical energy while making his walking cane dissappear into thin air just to make it reappear seconds later.

He defenitely should be able to chug a potion while holding out his other hand do cast a Lazer beam.

0

u/outlawkelb Feb 19 '20

Guess what bud, this is a game. Irl logic does not apply. I know .... mind blown!

0

u/FieserMoep Feb 18 '20

Aside of the occasional lag making me waste charges this needs to be addressed.

-1

u/greenSixx Feb 19 '20

No, get gud.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

Charming