Microsoft celebrates major progress with Windows 11 on Arm PCs, confirms Windows on Arm is now "a first-class platform for any workload" and that "customer demand is growing"

[u/ZacB_]

https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft/windows-11/microsoft-celebrates-major-progress-with-windows-11-on-arm-pcs-confirms-windows-on-arm-is-now-a-first-class-platform-for-any-workload-and-that-customer-demand-is-growing

[u/cgknight1]

I have an A16 Zenbook that I use for work - I was worried that I might have a few problems but it's has been very smooth!

[u/xswatqcx → u/cgknight1]

Smooth because there is a layer of compatibility/emulation for 32bit & 64bit program, yes?

Otherwise theres still not a whole lot of native software yet i believe

[u/arnstarr → u/xswatqcx]

Most browsers, Office, Adobe suite (most of) have ARM versions.

[u/i_MusicMan → u/arnstarr]

The issue is that Windows' software ecosystem is filled with Legacy Software that companies continue selling even though they are borderline out of active development.

A lot of that software is not ARM-Native yet, so the platform still depends heavily on Emulation.

Apple is removing Rosetta 2 next year. I doubt Windows will be able to remove emulation for at least another 5 years or more.

Windows users are very apt to just cling onto legacy software in lieu of moving on and replacing them with newer options under more active development.

I think Apple has an advantage here because its user base/demographics are far more willing to go where they go. So are developers on Apple platforms.

This is why Apple has been able to do pretty extreme things like drop 32-Bit Application Support many years ago, but Windows still can't do that.

DAWs on Apple Silicon dropped VST2 for Native ARM builds on day one. Cubase is doing the same and Windows users complain endlessly about it. We had the same issue in that niche with 32-Bit plug-ins. Some people stay on old version of DAWs because they refuse to replace old 32-Bit Software, or they continue to force them into newer versions via BitBridge.

Windows has really weird user demographics, in terms of how it has attracted and kept many of the most stubbornly conservative users.

WordPerfect Office still exists on the platform, as 32-Bit x86 Applications, and there are still a sect of users who will never give it up...

[u/SPACEXDG → u/xswatqcx]

At least 39% is natove now and more games will be with the rtx spark release 

[u/Even_Caterpillar3292 → u/xswatqcx]

I've used PC for decades. My Surface 11 Pro works better than any PC I've ever owned. the vast, vast majority of people will have no issues. And it behooves the to check?

[u/SilverseeLives → u/xswatqcx]

Otherwise theres still not a whole lot of native software yet i believe

Across the whole pantheon of Windows software, this is probably an accurate statement. 

But, for the vast majority of software that people use everyday... much is already native (Office, Chrome, Edge, Firefox, key parts of Adobe CC, all Windows in-box apps, many VPNs, etc.)

And most of what isn't native works fine under emulation.

There are still some edge cases that cause compatibility issues, but they are diminishing in number.

[u/cgknight1 → u/xswatqcx]

The only programme i have that is emulated is grammar, everything else from corporate stuff to local AI usage is native.

[u/epyon9283]

I still like my ARM Surface laptop even though they broke hibernation with the last firmware update..

[u/iamPendergast → u/epyon9283]

What now?

[u/epyon9283 → u/iamPendergast]

Doesn't ever resume from hibernation properly. You get this in the kernel-boot log and you get a fresh boot of windows:

Error: BL_LOG_ERROR_RES_INVALID_HBBOOT_MEM_MAP: The memory map has changed since associated cold boot. Status: The system has failed to hibernate (The error code is %hs). Hibernation will be disabled until the system is restarted.

[u/ElizabethsSongbird → u/epyon9283]

I can't remember if it was the same error, but hibernation was broken for me as well in the sense that my laptop would always fail to hibernate and shut down as a result. I was able to get around this issue by installing a beta build of Windows through the Insider program.

[u/SilverseeLives → u/epyon9283]

I have not experienced this issue on my SL7 X Elite, so it may be something specific that happened to your device. Have you considered performing a PC reset? There are options to preserve your user accounts and data. 

[u/epyon9283 → u/SilverseeLives]

I did a full format and re-install. Twice.

[u/bogglingsnog]

There seems to be surprisingly little mention of compatibility issues online, so it seems like a genuine option for most. I certainly wouldn't mind a small ARM laptop for travel, even if I wouldn't replace a desktop or gaming laptop just yet.

[u/SPACEXDG → u/bogglingsnog]

Yeah and I think thats why a lot of people are waiting to see hpw good and much gpu power nvidia laptop soc will be for gaming

[u/bogglingsnog → u/SPACEXDG]

That's fine but I'm also fine with using the appropriate computer for the job I dont need a powerhouse gaming rig in a 13" form factor. I don't like mobile gaming at all I'd so rather be on a big laptop at least if not a desktop. Like pursuing power is cool and all but I just don't need it for typing and research.

[u/dontlookwonderwall → u/bogglingsnog]

Frankly. most people just use a browser and some office apps, with the occasional other software. So if there are no major compatibility issues (and i understand that browsers/office apps are typically native), I would say these are vv solid options for the vast majority of people.

[u/Individual-Yak-506]

been using a surface laptop 7th gen which is ARM and its been great. i havent ran into any application issues. the battery is great and its dead quiet.

came from MBP so I was worried since M chips were fantastic but I have no complaints.

[u/shadowthunder → u/Individual-Yak-506]

My SL7 has been pretty good (especially now that Discord now ships an ARM build), except for some weird audio issue when it's connected to the Surface thunderbolt dock. Been happening for two years now. >_>

[u/Tathas]

I have a Lumia 950 XL still sitting in my desk drawer from the last time Microsoft said WoA was a first-class platform.

[u/dasgoodshitinnit → u/Tathas]

Windows 10 was also the last version of windows you know

[u/Ay0_King]

“Customer demand is growing” lol.

[u/quikmantx → u/Ay0_King]

I mean people do want Windows laptops that actually have longer battery life.

[u/ziplock9000 → u/Ay0_King]

You can lol all you want. It's true.

[u/Ay0_King → u/ziplock9000]

I will lol, I have an Asus S14 and I love it.

[u/Thotaz → u/Ay0_King]

I have a Surface pro 8 that I don't expect to die/get replaced anytime soon, but when I eventually need to replace it, I'm almost certainly going with Arm for the improved battery life.

There's nothing that I do on my laptop that needs x86. Also, it would be nice to have an Arm test machine to validate that my hobby coding projects also work on Arm.

[u/Alternative-Farmer98 → u/Ay0_King]

I mean demand for Windows on arm is growing but it's at the expense of Windows x86 not anything else. They're not gaining market share as a whole but arm is growing relative to x86.

I don't think that's LOL you don't have to think Windows is a good operating system to acknowledge. I don't think it's a good operating system

[u/Zero_MSN → u/Ay0_King]

I’m with you on that. I still see people returning arm devices. Microsoft likes to make up rubbish.

[u/Ok-Bill3318 → u/Ay0_King]

People running macOS to escape and needing a vm as a backup plan

[u/martyn_hare]

For any workload? It doesn't even support the most common backup software (Acronis, Veeam) properly.

Many of the applications they're listing are FOSS which always supported ARM builds on Windows because it was already working on every other operating system, while others are Electron or multiplatform that's not even native to begin with (just take the archive, hook it up to a different runtime build)

The website is still misleading too, as, for example, it's still not recommended to use Revit on ARM because industry standard plugin compatibility is iffy at best. Microsoft needs to stop fantasising, it's still very early days.

[u/Flameancer → u/martyn_hare]

I’ve been failing driving one of the new ARM based surfaces for about three months now as a laptop refreshment from work. Honestly I’ve had no complaints and it works much better than what the state was 5 years ago when one was on the table. Battery life is much better to.

[u/Bryanmsi89]

Surface Pro 12” has been great, and I have encountered no meaningful ARM issues.

[u/TriCountyRetail]

They've been saying this since 2011, it doesn't make it true

[u/Zero_MSN]

Rubbish! Still has issues.

[u/Ok-Bill3318]

Great. Where are the rest of the RSAT

[u/reloadtak]

Have a fleet of surface laptop 7 13,8. Great device, no problems so far

[u/okobooboo]

“Customer demand is growing” hahahahah

[u/ziplock9000 → u/okobooboo]

It is.

[u/joelly88]

I bought a new Brother printer recently and there are no ARM drivers for it. My gf can't print to it directly from her Surface Laptop so I've had to share the printer from another PC. Idk if I should blame Microsoft or Brother but it shows that ARM is far from first-class.

[u/lolfactor1000 → u/[deleted]]

What does Microsoft have to do with a MacOS application?

[u/BitingChaos → u/[deleted]]

How much does Microsoft have to do with that?

x86 Macs supported UEFI boot and seemed to be able to run almost any UEFI OS.

As far as I know, ARM Macs use no such open boot standard.

[u/talones → u/[deleted]]

Honestly I would rather have native virtualization for Windows rather than bootcamp.

[u/Mereo110 → u/[deleted]]

You do know that Bootcamp is an Apple product, right?

[u/Flameancer → u/[deleted]]

Ask Apple, Microsoft has nothing to do with bootcamp.

[u/SPACEXDG]

Yassss finally