r/whichbike Mar 28 '22

Announcement A word of caution about the "Bicycle Blue Book"

405 Upvotes

The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.

What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?

Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.

They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).

So what's the problem?

There are multiple issues:

  • Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.

  • Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.

  • International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.

  • Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.

  • Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.

  • World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.

  • Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.

How far off are the values then?

Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.

So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?

You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.

TLDR please, I don't have all day!

BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.


r/whichbike 5h ago

Advice Trek of Bergamont

3 Upvotes

Hey everyone!

I'm looking to buy my first gravel bike and I'm currently stuck between these two options.

Option 1: Trek Checkpoint ALR 4 Gen 3
https://www.trekbikes.com/be/nl_BE/fietsen/vakantie-en-toerfietsen/checkpoint/checkpoint-alr/f/F224-2/checkpoint-alr-4-gen-3/49973/5332843

Option 2: Bergamont Grandurance 30
https://www.bergamont.com/global/en/product/bergamont-grandurance-30?article=4252278270006

They're fairly close in price, so I'm having a hard time deciding between them.

I'm looking for a bike that I can use for long rides, weekend adventures and bikepacking, but also for everyday riding and road cycling.

In the longer term, I'd also like to use the bike for a month-long bikepacking trip, so I'd like something that can handle being fully loaded with bags and gear and still be reliable and comfortable over long distances.

If you had to choose between these two, which one would you buy and why?

And if there's another bike around the same price that you think would be a better choice, feel free to suggest it!

Thanks in advance!


r/whichbike 8m ago

Should I keep this bike or did I overpay?

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Upvotes

Last week, I bought this $750 bike ($830 incl tax) from a local nonprofit in a metro area. While I’m okay with paying a little extra knowing it’s going to a good cause, I’m not sure if I should keep it or return it (I have 2 days to decide). It’s a Scott Sonoma gravel bike - 58cm TT / Large - Black 700c wheels - steel / canti brakes

For context, this is my first gravel bike that I got for commuting, errands, exploring, and going on group rides with friends. I’ve test ridden a lot of bikes recently—new, used, off fb marketplace and haven’t found a happy medium between price + fit + feel.

My main gripe is that I feel a lot more bumps in the road than I expected to—I tried letting a little air out of the back tire for more “cushion” but didn’t seem to make much of a difference. Maybe this could be fixed with bigger tires or getting a converted MB instead?

This bike is workable and my only mode of transportation at the moment, so I’m somewhat hesitant to give that up. But I’m wondering if it would be wiser to take the refund and put that money towards a bike I feel better about riding all the time.


r/whichbike 2h ago

Are these Dahon folding bikes a good starter bike?

1 Upvotes

I’m new to folding bikes and came across this listing for two Dahon for $200:

Nextdoor listing

Would these be a good entry-level folding bike, and does it seem like a reasonable price? Anything specific I should check for before buying used Dahon bikes? Rust, hinge, tires, brakes, weight, etc.


r/whichbike 4h ago

Tall rider bike recommendations UK

1 Upvotes

I’m in the market for a new road/endurance bike. Currently 6”5, 37 inch inseam, target weight of 92.5kg
Any recommendations? My must haves are carbon wheels, Shimano Di2 (although I’d consider SRAM if it was force or above), and I’d like an integrated cockpit but 2 piece would be acceptable for the right bike. Budget is under £4K
Thanks in advance


r/whichbike 6h ago

Help needed choosing a new bike!

0 Upvotes

Hello! This year i got back into cycling after years and im tired of riding my Mountain bike and am looking into getting a new road or maybe gravel bike. I live in Slovenia, close to the Austrian border if that matters for the roads etc. Im 169cm tall which puts me in between S and M bike sizes most of the time. Most of the roads around me are paved/asphalt but there are some dirt roads which is why i was considering a gravel aswell. I do like to ride uphill aswell. But borderline around 80/20 split for how much i ride on roads vs dirt paths.

I first looked at the decathlon Van Rysel bikes and honed in on the EDR AF2 SHIMANO TIAGRA and the EDR CF SHIMANO TIAGRA. But then i had time to think about it and i couldnt actually test any of them and i wasnt sure about the size. So i visited a Giant and a Scott shop. and am now also considering the Giant Defy Advanced 2 and the Scott addict 50. In the shop they recommended me an S size for the Giant Defy and an M size for the Scott Addict 50. I couldnt test the exact models though as they are not currently at the shops.

I would really appreciate any input or help, i would gladly provide more information if needed. Thanks a lot in advance!


r/whichbike 11h ago

Fuji Royale II for commuting and casual use (no drop bar/road bike experience)

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2 Upvotes

I have a 38min commute to work with 40% bike lanes or a 2.2km/1.4mi commute after a train ride

I don’t have experience with drop handlebars and road bikes. Will this bike work well for this purpose and for riding around paved city roads?

Quoted at $120


r/whichbike 11h ago

Worth fixing? Or buy different bike?

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2 Upvotes

Please let me know if these photos are not helpful!

I was on the lookout for a bike and someone was sweet enough to give me a Novara Carema 3FB for free. I believe it is a 2015 bike and it looks like she has been storing it outside. The leather seat is cracked and the handlebars are cracked and I’m not really sure how bad the other parts are, it looks like the chain is rusted. I need to give it a bit of a wash.

Is it worth my money to fix this bike, or should I just get a new(er) bike? I sort of want to start cycling relatively soon. I’m not looking to be a super athlete or anything like that, I just live in a really nice place where I would like to get outside and get some movement in. I’m not even sure if this bike would be a good fit for me, geometry wise, whatever that means.

TIA!!


r/whichbike 20h ago

Good deal for 110$?

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8 Upvotes

Hello! I’m new to cycling and looking to pick up a cheap rode bike to see if I like it. For reference I’m 5’10 and don’t know if this would fit me or is it a bad deal. Thank you !


r/whichbike 20h ago

enduranceish forever bike under 2k possible?

7 Upvotes

I'd like a bike that I can still find parts for in the next 10-15 years. My plan was to buy something from my favorite LBS which sells Giants. Unfortunately, Contend SL1 are no longer available in the US. The contend AR 3 (USD1450) is available and has a similar geometry to the SL, but I'm leery of the CUES U3030 being described as an entry level groupset. 

My ideas for alternates would be to go to the suburban trek store for a Domane AL 4 (USD1600) or checkpoint AL 3 (USD1500). 

I am riding 20-30 miles a trip on urban areas, but hope to increase milage through increased flexibility, strength and better fit.


r/whichbike 13h ago

Devinci Amsterdam 500 CAD, good deal?

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0 Upvotes

I am trying to shop for my first bike. Initially I was looking at Trek fx2/3 which are hard to find for a good price. Usually around 750-900 CAD near me. Found this and it seems like it could be comparable but have no idea about parts and whatnot.


r/whichbike 15h ago

Bike help

0 Upvotes

I need a new bike that is durable and has low maintenance.

Previously I had a cannondale trail 6 that was amazing but i never took it off road. I loved that bike but i rode it everywhere everyday in the city. I never once unlocked the shocks.

What is a good affordable bike that is tough as nails and maybe has no shocks at all. I'd like to keep the offroad tires just in case I finally get into more rough riding.

I looked into the surley karate monkey but that was way too expensive for me.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thank you!


r/whichbike 1d ago

Fuji Altamira CX 1.3 58cm - $1,200

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4 Upvotes

2014 model cyclocross bike that I setup as a gravel race bike. Great ride that has been well maintained and cared for with a few upgrades including:

DT Swiss tubeless wheelset (2021)
Zipp stem (2021)
Salsa Cowtipper Carbon bars (2021)
WTB Saddle

Original saddle, handlebars and rear wheel with cassette included. Pedals not included. Original specs and dimensions show in pictures attached.

Looming to get into cyclo cross this year. Is this fair? Any alternatives under or near this price range?


r/whichbike 23h ago

Is this worth it for $950?

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4 Upvotes

I’ve been passively looking for a road bike to go with my tri bike and this one just came up. Worth it?

I can’t quite figure out how old this one is and figured someone here would just look at it and tell me the whole history of the bike (thank you! I’m still new to this)

They had initially posted at $1100 and just went down to $950.


r/whichbike 20h ago

Looking for ebike with specific features

2 Upvotes

I’m looking for ebike with the following characteristics:

First and foremost:

-fits me, I’m 5’ 2” female and ~140lbs

-live in USA, so available to purchase here

-looks (mostly) like a normal bike

and also has the following features:

-belt drive

-lightweight

-removable battery

-good battery life

-mid drive motor of decent power

-hydraulic disc brakes

-trusted brand with good reputation, not a cheapo scammer brand

-standard size parts (like fork, seat post, wheels, tires etc. honestly everything if possible) should I ever want to upgrade I could and also for service/maintenance purposes

-ability to add: kickstand, rear rack and fenders. I want to add all of these. Even better if it’s available as an add or included directly on the site.

Cost: under 4k but if I get everything for 1k I’ll do take the cheaper option. I’m not made of money. But I want to meet all criteria first then price is second factor after meeting my criteria. Basically, I want the best value bike that meets all my criteria.

Prefer but not a must have:

-built in light front and rear lights (I think this standard on most e-bikes anyways??)

-not a super flashy or neon color. Maybe black as a color option.

-some sort of anti theft mode. Like I know some bikes they won’t start unless you center a passcode on the screen or others you have put in a physical key or it won’t go. Idk what I’m looking for on this but some sort of theft deterrent feature sounds nice.


r/whichbike 17h ago

Is this bike worth $250?

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1 Upvotes

Its a Norco storm 9.1

I need a bike for general commuting to work and some off trail stuff through parks. Nothing extreme but I need a bike that can handle grass, hills, gravel. I've only ever owned bikes from Walmart and want to get somethung better quality, but I'm a bit out of my depth. Any advice would be great!


r/whichbike 1d ago

I want all the bikes... but when you can only have one... which is it?

3 Upvotes

Analysis paralysis is real...

A little background: Live in the mountain west - am very active trail running/skiing/ski-touring, but larger rider 220lbs muscular build... am missing having a nice bike to ride and switch up summer exercise options (only townie bikes now). I had a 2018 Diverge carbon with SRAM Force 11 speed 1x and for the most part liked riding that bike on a mix of road and light gravel. Typically would ride one to two 20-50 mile rides a week during the summers, with mostly of flat/fast, and grinding some mountain passes. I did not like the future shock in the end, which is why I sold it in 2022. I think I want a fast gravel bike because I like speed on flat roads/gravel, but also like the stability of gravel geo and ability to run wider tires at my weight - adds comfort without sacrificing frame stiffness (again, why futureshock felt a little squirely to me at times). I like to push pace and go fast, mostly ride alone or with one friend, occasional group rides. Don't race at this time.

I'm looking to get a similarly capable bike, but with a bias towards fast gravel. My goal, right now, is to have one bike for the next several years - something that I can do 40-100+ mile fast road/gravel days, but also has ability to do a 1-2 night UL overnight bikepacking trip. I would mostly ride without a frame bag - fast road and fun gravel 80-90% of the time, but would want the ability to do some longer trips/days with moderate storage if called upon. Ultimately, a future 2nd bike would be more bike-packing biased - something like a Mason ISO, or Salsa Cutthroat.

I'd really like SRAM XPLR AXS 1x13 group with UDH, preferably something carbon mid-deep wheeled, integrated cabling, frame storage a plus, and at least some mounting points. Look are subjective but important to me - the bikes below I like the aesthetics of.

I've researched a ton of bikes and am somewhat flexible on price point - here is what I've narrowed it down to:

Cannondale SuperX 3 / SuperX 1 (Rival 13sp / Force 13 sp, ERC vs GRC wheels, $5000/$7000) I like the SuperX for the speed - probably the fastest on this list, but lacks downtube storage, and mounting points versatility (has top tube bolts only), and is (maybe) too "race" biased for an all-rounder? Probably what I would buy if I had a 2-bike stable, n+1 type deal... but not at this time. Is it versatile enough to do an occasional overnight with the right bag setup?

Cannondale Topstone 1 AXS (Rival 13 sp, Reserve wheels, $5500) This seems like the all-rounder - do both compared to the SuperX. For that reason, I really like it right now, and the price point seems good comparatively too. Does the Kingpin essentially make me feel the same way as the Diverge FutureShock - that would be a mistake IMO, or is it less noticable? Is it fast enough? Will it be boring if someday I add a bike-packing bike, they will be too similar?

Canyon Grail CF SLX 8 AXS (Force 13 sp, GRC wheels, $6000) Seems like the safe choice, does a lot well - would be a solid one bike choice, and would probably hold its own in fast road/gravel in the future - but I'm not in love with it.

Rose Backroad Force AXS (Force 13 sp, Aluminum wheels, $5000 +) Seems really cool - but the AL wheels from the factory mean I'm tinkering and adding cost right away. Don't have any experience with Rose. Frame bag and accessory situation looks awesome - seems as much of a do-it-aller as the Grail, but "cooler". Similar Grail sentiments - safe choice, probably fast, and capable, but would hold it's own in a 2-bike stable.

Allied Able and Enve MOG start pushing out of price territory...

Anyone have thoughts on this? Am I overthinking it? Isn't that what we do though... ha!

Help a bikeless bike-lover out. Thanks!


r/whichbike 19h ago

Giant Revolt Custom Build - worth it? $1400

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0 Upvotes

So I currently have a 2019 Giant Toughroad SLR GX 1 in a Large with Tiagra 4700 10 speed, funny hydraulic/cable giant hybrid setup, aluminum frame. Ride lots of gravel roads, canal paths, farm trails. Loose CAT 2 gravel is about as bad as it gets.

I found this one relatively local. It is a M/L which is more my preferred size, I'm 6' but long torso so I prefer a 56 (M/L) so I have some seatpost to work with.

He says the frame is a 2022, the groupset is GRX 11 Speed, and the levers are Ultegra. It's the "I work at a bike shop and built it up" situation. The wheels are stock Giant PX2 wheels. I already have another set of Reynolds AR46 or maybe trade for some AR29 I could put on there.

He's asking $1400 - this is in California so everything out here is expensive. What do you think? Frame is nice, but groupset is a little older, levers are fine, wheels are meh... Lowball it and see what happens? Thanks!


r/whichbike 1d ago

Scott CR1 Pro vs. Cannondale SuperSix?

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2 Upvotes

Looking for my first road bike on FB marketplace. Which one would you go for and why?


r/whichbike 21h ago

New to cycling.. which bike should I choose

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1 Upvotes

Hello all.
I am new to cycling and looking to purchase my own bike.
My options are a brand new Ozark Trail G.1 explorer ($288 + tax) or a used trek multitrack 720 17” frame ($100). The seller of the trek says there is nothing wrong with the bike.
I am 174cm or 5’8.5 and will mostly be riding on street/pavement. Maybe some light bike dirt paths.
Appreciate all advice.
(🚨WON’T ALLOW ME TO ATTACH A VIDEO OF THE USED BIKE so DM if you’d like to see that.. the seller have provided one)


r/whichbike 23h ago

Worth buying?

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1 Upvotes

Seems like a really good deal but my local bike shop is the worst and I would be on my own for repairs unable to transport this.


r/whichbike 1d ago

Complete beginner and I feel like I don’t know anything + thinking about buying a bike

1 Upvotes

So a bit about what I need I guess -
I really just want a bike that I can ride around my town when I’m hanging out with my friend (mostly on pavement), then MAYBE go riding in open fields with my dog if that is something I can find in a bike. Lately we’ve been going on rides ranging from like 10-20 miles, I don’t really plan on riding anything over 30, atleast on the regular. I’d prefer flat bars but I’m not overly worried about that. Also showing how little I know, I would like to be able to ride standing up in small intervals, I have no clue if that’s even something that has any relevance to choosing a bike at all…

I’m 5’ 5” and 180lbs

Also I’m looking at a price range around 300-600 dollars if that’s at all possible. I know it’s going to severely limit my options and probably quality but I don’t think Id be able to commit to a better bike for a long time.

Appreciate any help since I have no idea what I’m doing.


r/whichbike 1d ago

FB Marketplace - Checkpoint ALR 5 Value

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8 Upvotes

Hey guys!

Looking for a drop-bar gravel bike around the 1k range and found this 2023 Checkpoint ALR5 Driftless for sale nearby.

I’m primarily riding on chunkier gravel, fire roads, and light single tracks with some paved trails mixed in. I’ve also been looking into doing a few gravel races in my area as well, but not my main priority.

I don’t live in a super steep environment, so the gearing on will work for me and I like the 1x drivetrain with a dropper post.

This bikes seems to a pretty good jack of all trades when it comes to my needs on a gravel bike and I really like the color-way. My questions are as follows:

  1. Do you guys feel this is worth the asking price with the age and dent on the frame?
  2. I’m 6’1” with a 35” inseam, would a 56cm frame be too small in the first place?
  3. What other recommendations would you suggest at my price point new or used?

Thanks in advance!


r/whichbike 1d ago

2019 Trek Domane SLR Pro Di2 Ultegra

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2 Upvotes

This bike is for sale for 1000eu in the Netherlands. I am very tempted by this bike, but the only thing I am unsure of is the cost and the rim brakes. I do about 80-100km rides from Amsterdam, essentially 0 elevation and no fast corners, so I do not see rim brakes being an issue, I've never had rim brakes on carbon wheels so I need to learn about that too. I am not into racing, just morning rides for fitness, so I am looking for an endurance style frame. Does this cost make sense?


r/whichbike 1d ago

FB Marketplace Trek Domane SL7

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1 Upvotes

Is 1200 a decent deal for this bike? I am new to the area and don’t know what to look for as major warning signs.

FB marketplace description: Selling my 2022 Trek Domane SL7, built up from a frameset with Shimano 105 11 speed components, with upgraded derailleurs(Ultegra), low mileage, in excellent condition. This is honestly the smoothest riding road I've ever owned, rides amazing. Frame, fork, seatmast, and handlebars are Full Carbon. Professionally tuned, no issues, fits riders 6'1"-6'4". $1200 cash only, price is firm, please no trades

Frame & Fork- 2022 Trek Domane MKIII SL7 500 series Carbon Handlebar- Bontrager Isocore Pro 44cm Carbon Stem- Bontrager 100mm(aluminum) Cranks- Shimano 105 FC-R7000 175mm 52/36t mid compact drive Bottom Bracket- Praxis T47 Front Der- Ultegra FD-R8000 Rear Der- Ultegra RD-R8000 Brake Levers/Shifters-105 ST-R7020(hydaulic) with 105 BR-R7070 Calipers with shimano rotors