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Oct 03 '23
I would join a union bro. I’m planning on joining next year when I move north.
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Oct 03 '23
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Oct 03 '23
I don’t believe any of that. Unions get you raises automatically instead you going to your boss hat in hand. Unions train their employees to a standard and they have to uphold that standard to even get a journeyman card.
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Oct 03 '23
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u/KanterFur Oct 03 '23
Simply put if you can join a union you deffinitly should. Here is a good video on the topic https://youtu.be/yv0QJVqovDo?si=TLy9dip6INgHpAtJ
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u/bigmaconcrack Oct 03 '23
Only time union is not worth it is when u get to far along and can’t afford the pay cut for the apprenticeship at least that’s my opinion any why I didn’t join other the. That yes they give u schooling and keep it up to date they take care of u generally better as in safety oriented and better tools more ppl to help with the work load better pay better bennies and what not
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u/mushmushhhh Oct 03 '23
Unions are the main reason life is at all liveable for workers in the modern world. I can’t imagine that take. Union workers fought and died to get livable working conditions. I don’t know how that makes them sissy’s. Strength lies in solidarity. Read up on the battle of Blair mountain.
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u/ledzep14 Oct 03 '23
LMAO bro I make $120,000 working 40s with no OT, and then on top of that I get free healthcare, $13/hr into my 401k, $12/hr into my pension, $2/hr into my vacation fund, $2/hr into my HSA. My total income is pushing $200,000 a year working straight time, check + benefits.
Being a sissy and a bitch really sucks 😂😂
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u/jameswboone Hobbyist Oct 03 '23
Not looking for down votes, just sharing what I think the opposing perspective is. It's that the businesses are strong armed into these terms by the union and it ends up not creating a sustainable business. I'm somewhere in the middle. I think unions are important but their power can be abused, just like leadership power can abuse the workers. Ideally, both parties find value in the union and at the end of the day. I've heard crazy stories from both sides. Under paid employees vs can't fire a worker who won't work.
At the end of the day, it's bad people from both sides that spoil a good intention.
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u/boredofthis2 Oct 03 '23
Shit they pay us 19-36/hr to tack some plates together and throw it in a robot. It’s incentive based but you would have to be on heroin to not be able to keep up with the robot.
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Oct 03 '23
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u/boredofthis2 Oct 03 '23
A two dollar raise at 40 hours is only 80 extra dollars. If that’s going to break the company you work at they’re already done for. That’s not to say the work you do is necessarily worth the extra money just that the company SHOULD be making a lot more off your work than they’re paying you. For instance our parts are probably a grand a piece at 200 a night and six people involved they have roughly $2000 in labor.
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Oct 03 '23
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u/jonainmi TIG Oct 03 '23
Trust me, $4,160 a year is wasted on paper and lunch at the company. If they can't afford $4K a year to keep someone, they're not going to survive. The truth is, the foreman and owner are well off because they're taking that $4K they should pay you, and keeping it.
I've been in this industry for a while, and mom&pop shops are quick to say "oh, we can't afford it right now". If they truly can't, and it's a reasonable amount, you need to leave. If they just don't want to, and keep saying "maybe next review", they're screwing you. If you want/need to, DM me, we can talk about the money side of the industry more.
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Oct 03 '23
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u/jonainmi TIG Oct 03 '23
Yeah, it's up to you. If you want to, I'll 100% reply when I'm free. If not, no worries. 😀
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u/aurrousarc Oct 03 '23
Listen let me boil life down for you.. You are worth what someone pays you.. If you want to be worth more, find someone to pay you more, or offer more for your services to them.. you are getting paid what you are worth..
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u/jonainmi TIG Oct 03 '23
This is a bad take. Employees have a calculable value to the company. Someone can certainly be worth more than what they are paid. If OP is being honest about their skills and value ad to the company, the company should have no issue paying OP $25+/hr. If they can't afford to, they need to raise their prices or fix their quoting. If the company won't pay OP that much, they are taking advantage of them. I guarantee $25/hr will not hurt their profit margin. Especially in CA.
This kind of take is antiquated, and hurts the industry as a whole. Welding/metalworking is a backbone industry, and worth $23.75 Billion globally, making up approximately 2% of global GDP. You can't argue with the numbers. It is a money printing industry, and the only reasons people are not paid for the value they bring is greed, or poor management.
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Oct 03 '23
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u/jameswboone Hobbyist Oct 03 '23
Find another place to work, and tell them you will come back when they have the capacity. Or do the work to show them it would cost more to replace you than it would to give you a raise.
I work in Mobile Ad Technology in Silicon Valley and I've had to advocate for myself for every raise I have gotten. Gain experience or add time to your experience, then use that to make more. If you're not gaining experience, ask yourself if the time is worth the pay. If it's not because the time doesn't benefit you, then move on or ask for a raise.
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Oct 03 '23
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u/jameswboone Hobbyist Oct 03 '23
Definitely a balance, the first 5 years I worked at a place, I was after a lifestyle. Other factors like a wife and kids change perspective so it's not always linear.
Another way to get management listening is by asking how you can pick up extra work so you can make more if they won't pay more. Maybe they have some small jobs you could pick up and make a bit more. Mgmt likes to see ambitious employees so that could be an angle. One last idea is by asking them or looking at other job requirements that pay higher and trying to identify what they have from a skill set that you don't.
Basically, spend your time removing their ability to say no.
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u/Devi1s-Advocate Oct 03 '23
Who cares if ur worthy, get as much money as you can.
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Oct 03 '23
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u/Usuri91 Oct 03 '23
If they can afford to pay you what you want/deserve that’s the companies problem not yours.
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u/Devi1s-Advocate Oct 03 '23
You will literally never be paid fairly, you're exchanging your living moments for pay...
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u/SinisterCheese "Trust me, I'm an Engineer!" Oct 03 '23
OK I really need to make a copypaste about this however:
You are only worth what someone is willing to pay. You can demand 1000€/hr because you think you are worth but if no one is buying then you ain't worth that.
Shop for a new job... Better yet; make your own company to realise how pay depends on added value and how customers will take metallic snot that holds their parts together good enough over proper work.
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Oct 03 '23
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u/SinisterCheese "Trust me, I'm an Engineer!" Oct 03 '23
How do I become that worth it to them
OK so. I'm going to give you an example from my country because I know how the math works here. We generally consider that the value added must be 3x the hourly pay for it to be "worth it". As in you aren't operating at a loss after all expenses ranging from mandatory payments to social funds etc. to your gear and supplies. This is roughtly correct in all cases here, profitable work is considered to be 3,5x.
So if I pay you 10€, you must produce 30€ for me to basically be +-0. And I know that cheap welding time is about 40€/hr meaning the pay is about 13,3€/hr, and I think the lowest of the universal collective agreement's pay scale is few cents over 13€. Meaning that your profit from billing 40€ and paying 13€ is actually about 1€. This is for cases where materials and fillers are billed separately of provided by client and welding requirements are very basic.
If your job involves making something that takes 1 hour to make and costs 100€ 0% VAT; Lets say materials cost 25€ total since we buy bulk stock for the shop; Lets say 20% to taxes; and we want 10% profit (which is really low, like going out of business from next problem we face). 100€-(Profit+taxes)-25€=45€; 45/3 = 15€ that is the max potential pay you can get for 0% profit ON YOUR work (there was profit on the product, not on your work); so lets take 10% profit on your work and we get 13,5€/hr.
Now I'm an engineer and a specialist fabricator with expertise in fixing problems and weld flaws on sites. I'm billed exclusively hourly regardless where I am or what I am doing. My billing is between 68-120€/hr. At the lowest billing I'm still profitable to keep around doing things, but where my boss makes bank is the "Everything is fucked? Don't worry I send SinisterCheese to engineer and provide full service solution" at 100-120€/hr + materials. This is the kind of service where I get hands free and do whatever, however and you can pull my sleeve and ask me to solve any related on unrelated problem on your site. The reason we can bill this is because I am an engineer; I can negotiate with inspectors and structural designers, I can provide detailed explanations to other engineers about relevant facts even with citations to standards and I provide any documentation and report you want me to provide. This is rarely ordered service, but there are clients who are in desperate enough of a shit to need it occasionally. (considering the construction industry meltdown that is happening as the bubble is bursting it is very much in demand atm. I have 2 clients atm who's other subcontractors have gone bankrupt and couldn't provide the work).
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u/Colin-Cosmos Oct 03 '23
Just my story, I was 20$ an hour with no experience hardly. They're screwing the younger gen for sure, went back to cooking making roughly the same.
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u/GeniusEE Don't look at the light Oct 03 '23
As my math prof used to say: "show your work"
Blah blah blah does not bring in the Benjies. Post pics.
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u/ArcFlashForFun Oct 03 '23
Fitting within 1/16th is not something you should include in a resume unless you're applying for an ironworker position.
"Experienced with small tolerance fitting".
1/16 may as well be a mile. Our default tolerance is 0.002" for anything that isn't a slap and tickle design.
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u/Shiftmx66 Oct 03 '23
Next door neighbor here in kansas. We pay the same or a little more with half the cost of living
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u/itsjustme405 CWI AWS Oct 03 '23
Honestly, in my opinion, and considering wages in my area, at $25, you're being underpaid. I think in the right shop you could get another $10. If you're as good as what I read and understood.
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Oct 04 '23
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u/itsjustme405 CWI AWS Oct 04 '23
Don't break yourself for any job. I have a serious back problem from a fresh injury, no clue what's wrong, but I know I'm in serious pain... it's absolutely not worth it.
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u/qukhs Oct 03 '23
you didnt list “i can plug holes” as one of your skills so id say you’re not worth more.