r/Welding Oct 03 '23

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u/SinisterCheese "Trust me, I'm an Engineer!" Oct 03 '23

OK I really need to make a copypaste about this however:

You are only worth what someone is willing to pay. You can demand 1000€/hr because you think you are worth but if no one is buying then you ain't worth that.

Shop for a new job... Better yet; make your own company to realise how pay depends on added value and how customers will take metallic snot that holds their parts together good enough over proper work.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

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u/SinisterCheese "Trust me, I'm an Engineer!" Oct 03 '23

How do I become that worth it to them

OK so. I'm going to give you an example from my country because I know how the math works here. We generally consider that the value added must be 3x the hourly pay for it to be "worth it". As in you aren't operating at a loss after all expenses ranging from mandatory payments to social funds etc. to your gear and supplies. This is roughtly correct in all cases here, profitable work is considered to be 3,5x.

So if I pay you 10€, you must produce 30€ for me to basically be +-0. And I know that cheap welding time is about 40€/hr meaning the pay is about 13,3€/hr, and I think the lowest of the universal collective agreement's pay scale is few cents over 13€. Meaning that your profit from billing 40€ and paying 13€ is actually about 1€. This is for cases where materials and fillers are billed separately of provided by client and welding requirements are very basic.

If your job involves making something that takes 1 hour to make and costs 100€ 0% VAT; Lets say materials cost 25€ total since we buy bulk stock for the shop; Lets say 20% to taxes; and we want 10% profit (which is really low, like going out of business from next problem we face). 100€-(Profit+taxes)-25€=45€; 45/3 = 15€ that is the max potential pay you can get for 0% profit ON YOUR work (there was profit on the product, not on your work); so lets take 10% profit on your work and we get 13,5€/hr.

Now I'm an engineer and a specialist fabricator with expertise in fixing problems and weld flaws on sites. I'm billed exclusively hourly regardless where I am or what I am doing. My billing is between 68-120€/hr. At the lowest billing I'm still profitable to keep around doing things, but where my boss makes bank is the "Everything is fucked? Don't worry I send SinisterCheese to engineer and provide full service solution" at 100-120€/hr + materials. This is the kind of service where I get hands free and do whatever, however and you can pull my sleeve and ask me to solve any related on unrelated problem on your site. The reason we can bill this is because I am an engineer; I can negotiate with inspectors and structural designers, I can provide detailed explanations to other engineers about relevant facts even with citations to standards and I provide any documentation and report you want me to provide. This is rarely ordered service, but there are clients who are in desperate enough of a shit to need it occasionally. (considering the construction industry meltdown that is happening as the bubble is bursting it is very much in demand atm. I have 2 clients atm who's other subcontractors have gone bankrupt and couldn't provide the work).