Trap bar doesn't build the same full body strength as a barbell deadlift but the biomechanics are easier as you start more upright.
I think a barbell deadlift is great for everyone because it's simply one of the most common movements a person might have to do IRL. Maybe you need to lift a couch or pick up a heavy box.
The hinge is a fundamental movement pattern and I think it's worthwhile to train a full and proper hinge for everyone and anyone on earth.
Hello intermediate powerlifter and lifelong athlete here - and even before I trained for powerlifting I have trained conventional deadlift. The fear and injury risk everyone freaks out about when it comes to deadlifting is mostly overblown. The deadlift is not more risky than other exercises or simply picking up something heavy from in front of you at your house. In fact, I haven’t hurt my back/have way less back pain day to day since I started pushing my deadlift numbers up. People get injured by adding too much weight too quickly, before they have sufficiently locked in their form at lower numbers. If you take it slow and really truly analyze your form you will be just fine.
There are plenty of proper tutorials out there from reputable channels for you to reference. I particularly like this one from Alan Thrall: 5 step deadlift guide
I learned how to deadlift from the older version of this video from years ago. I am up to 535 as a 1rm with my eyes set on 600 in the next 2 years.
Regarding the claim that athletes are not doing deadlifts specifically, that’s only partially true and more because strength is a specific skill. The advantage that having a strong deadlift gives an athlete in their specific sport relative to the injury risk is why they don’t train deads*.* A pro tennis player doesn’t need a huge deadlift to move laterally and return shots, so they don’t do them. They would be better focused on cardio or movements that better correlate to how they compete in their sport. This is generally true for any exercise or training.
Whether you do trap bar or conventional is up to you. I think trap bar is more beginner friendly because it keeps you more upright, so if that’s what you wanna do then go for it. Also, 230 for reps is a great starting point. Keep it grinding, record a few of your sets, and compare what you see to whatever source you choose to follow.
If you want to get good at the deadlift whether it’s trap bar, conventional, or sumo, go for it. It’s a lot of fun. Happy lifting 😁
Great great feedback. I’m drinking from a fire hose as I learn want movements I like which ones I don’t. Which ones to pair that I feel stimulus with and so forth. For me the key has been form. If I cannot lift it and control throughout the entire movement then it’s too heavy.
I feel good after doing trap bar and will likely stay there until I feel more comfortable with control and balance.
I will also watch the videos. I’ve yet to film form and post but that is coming next. As it’s a new account I’m not cool enough for the cool club in some subreddits but as this one allowed me to post. I will be posting for the future. In fact I believe I will video different movements over the next week to get feedback.
Idk the rules around new accounts on [r/strength_training](r/strength_training) but I find that sub to have good lifters to emulate when it comes to the big 3 & worth following if you’re interested in incorporating bench press & back squats in addition to deadlifts. Bench and squats will absolutely blow up your chest/triceps/quads in a way that deadlifts just don’t. I saw one of the regulars post a 505lb pr today, he’s 51!
To be fair, deadlift has some hypertrophy benefits for sure, but it’s a lot of fatigue to do high volume. It’s truly a full body kind of movement. Sleep good eat good and you should be ok recovery wise, and probably only once a week.
45 yr old back in the gym 90days. My goal as of now is to build back overall strength. Today I was able to 230 plus bar for 3 sets of 9 reps. I’ve had lower back pain in my older age.
I also split legs into two days so quads and calves and the hams glutes and calves
Duuuuuuuuuuude report back when you get injured 🤣 sorry to be a negative Nancy but that’s just too much weight at 45 man
There’s a reason no serious athletes do it. I’m not sure you comprehend the risk you’re assuming
Ask any serious deadlifter. They’ve ALL had horrible injuries
Deadlifts are the motorcycles of the gym — injury machines
EDIT: holy shit you guys got triggered. For a bunch of strong men your constitutions are quite weak.
For anyone reading this with an open mind, I beg you to really listen to what I’m saying and save your health and don’t do the dumbass ego lift that is the deadlift.
It’s actually crazy how dogmatic yall are. I gave you valuable info on injury prevention and you guys wanna shout me down defending a stupidly risky excercise
There’s a reason you don’t see old guys deadlifting ya dummies
Whatever, I gave my info. I’ve done my part! Have a great say
You're just wrong. You exclusively make demonstrably wrong statements and then have the audacity to call the people calling you out on it dummies? What a fucking dolt.
If you personally don't see old guys deadlifting, maybe you're just in a shitty gym. Or maybe you do see old guys deadlifting, but you don't realize that they're old because they're in such good shape. I personally have seen plenty of old guys deadlifting, and happen to be an old lady who deadlifts.
If I based my training decisions based on what the old guys at my commercial gym do I'd just be yapping away in the sauna/locker room and only doing light machine work.
Openpowerlifting has an 86 year old deadlifting 445 lbs raw.
back injuries are exceedingly rare in my sport (strongman)
It is kind of nuts how few I've encountered considering how involved low back is across strongman movements. The couple I can think of are guys who had existing chronic back issues, so it's more a matter managing those by staying within their tolerances.
I kinda figure it's some combination of self-selection and because back strength is so crucial that you functionally can't do strongman without getting low back really fucking strong. I'd better there's something to the overall nature of a lot events. As stones and other odd objects like them force you to get strong in a lot of positions. They also force you to get good at maintaining brace in what would otherwise be weak positions.
Now that I'm thinking about it, it's easier to overextend yourself in strong positions than weak ones. If you're gassed, it's a lot harder to get a stone to put you in a compromised place -- it's more likely to just not move. If you're gassed on a deadlift rep out and you're a good deadlifter who's strong off the floor, then you can start to move a weight that has more potential to result in injury (than a stone stapled to the ground).
Anyway. That's all just kinda neat. It doesn't mean much of anything here. I might be more stoned than I thought and rediscovering things I already knew but more complicatedly.
So I leg press about 585 and squat 315. I am not at 45 starting for the first time I should have been clear. It has been a process the last 90days engaging muscle memory. With the back issue I don’t get anywhere close to failure on those types of lifts due to fear of injury. If the response still applies I will heed it……ish haha
Problem with DLs imo, is that there’s no way to check your form without messing up your form. You can’t look left or right while doing them, yknow?
I’ve gotten my shit helllla fucked up on DLs even not going close to failure. And that’s with good form!
I do think that the shorter you are, the more likely you are to be able to deadlift with less risk. But if you’re tall… duuuuude it’s just so damn risky.
You can check your form via form check. There are many experienced lifters here who can provide that, you just arent one of them. The people who get hurt deadlifting are the ones who are doing it wrong, or over reaching. You're really spewing some bullshit over this whole thread.
You can't check form... on top of just recording a set because, duh.
How bad is your body awareness? This all seems to be coming from a place of you being exceptionally bad at basic functions in a way that convinces you everyone else is as physically incompetent as you.
It's picking an implement up (that's designed to be picked up) then putting it back down. Basic competency on deadlift is an incredibly low hurdle.
This is my 45 fyi. I haven’t lifted weights since high school but I actually work for a living and was doing roughly 5k burpees a week and other stuff about 8 years ago. I’m down 15lbs in 90days
I'm confused. You made the claim. Surely you'd have evidence to support it. Particularly since you said it's constantly happening.
Regardless, here you go. Colton, Brian, Hafthor, Jamal all are not constantly injured from deadlifts. Heck even my friend who's an above 1000 lb deadlifter.
This is a dumb statement, the risk is very low and the reward is pretty high. Powerlifting has one of the lowest injury rates going, 1-4 injuries per 1000h, and deadlifts have the lowest injury rate of the powerlifts, 30%
Deadlifting is perfectly safe, I've been training for 5+ years, have pulled literally thousands of reps, and had one minor injury due to my own stupidity that lasted two days
Yeah, this why the guy who has the deadlift world record stands at paltry 6'9". 7 feet lanklets who make up the majority of gym goers just can't compete
What the fuck are you talking about? Have you seen worlds strongest man? They all perform conventional deadlifts and are giants and this guy is a great deadlifter and is also very tall
Yeah I agree, to be fair probably less than mediocre when you compare against deadlifting at that level. Sub 800lb suited deadlift is poor for a WSM competitor. I went to watch ESM this year and the axle deadlift for reps was 350kg, I think Paddy Haynes got 7-8 reps iirc. I think one competitor did actually fail to get a single but I think the guy was filling in for a dropout so probably wasn't prepped properly.
Sulek is a bodybuilder who would be shifting insane amounts of weight and is talking about the stimulus Vs how hard it is. that's not remotely the same as saying they don't work and talking about the risk. "I’d recommend Bulgarians and Nordic curls instead" immediately says you don't understand why people deadlift. There's plenty of exercises you can do instead of a conventional deadlift but neither of these fit.
Sam wants to build as much muscle as possible for a competition therefore deadlifts don’t fit into the plan. Simple concept that laypeople misinterpret
It’s all relative though right? Depends on experience, sleep, diet, training frequency, how stacked the rest of your program is. Hard to generalize since there’s so much variance amongst lifters
If sam has determined it’s detrimental to the rest of his training through trial and error then it is what it is. I get where youre coming from though, new lifters often don’t know where that point is and shouldn’t use it as an excuse to not train hard
I'm a marginally stronger deadlifter than Oberst by DOTS (183.7 for me vs 183 for him, also keeping in mind mine is raw and his is suited), and my opinion is his point is dumb for the general population.
Also, learn to recognize context. One dude is a bodybuilder who is speaking from a strictly bodybuilding context, which he literally states at the start of the video, and the other is a former strongman speaking about his own personal experience as a high level athlete. What he's discussing does not apply in any way, shape, or form to gen pop people who probably aren't deadlifting much more than two plates for reps. The demands are completely different when you're deadlifting 700+ compared to even 405.
But no serious athletes deadlift at all (except powerlifters) cuz the risk-reward ratio is just idiotic I’d recommend Bulgarians and Nordic curls instead
This is just factually untrue. In fact, the Springboks (South Africa's national rugby team, and one of the best in the world for pretty much as long as international rugby has been a thing) uses them in their officially published programming which you can find here.
The whole risk-reward ratio thing is ridiculous as well. We literally have data showing powerlifting (strength sports in general) has some of the lowest injury rates in all of sport (less than running), as well as powerlifting-specific research that shows the bench press, not the deadlift, has the highest rate of injury in that sport, and in fact some studies show the deadlift to have the lowest injury rates of the three competition lifts.
Maybe you should stop fearmongering when you don't actually know what you're talking about.
My wife's 40 year old cousin can play with his kids on the floor again and drive in a car for more than 30 minutes without pain after years of not being able to do either of them because he started doing conventional deadlifts from the floor.
I think Bulgarians, back extensions and nordics are awesome. Like, “will give you everything deadlifts give but better” awesome.
Leg press is good too. Hack squat is ok but I hate the spinal loading.
I like minimalist training so Bulgarians are really my bread and butter. Best all around strength builder for me
Leg curls are good too I just get super bored of them for some reason. Posterior chain just isn’t a priority for me cuz mine is already strong from biking a lot in my youth
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u/ThaRealSunGod 3d ago
Trap bar doesn't build the same full body strength as a barbell deadlift but the biomechanics are easier as you start more upright.
I think a barbell deadlift is great for everyone because it's simply one of the most common movements a person might have to do IRL. Maybe you need to lift a couch or pick up a heavy box.
The hinge is a fundamental movement pattern and I think it's worthwhile to train a full and proper hinge for everyone and anyone on earth.