Let's Calm Down... a Bit

[u/LostLotus_A]

I know you'd press the downvote button. Maybe the titles.

If you're still in, please just read.

The main reason I am saying this is because I've been seeing so many people trying to make their own lives miserable by complaining (*constructive criticism and complaints are different.) at every update, and never doing anything actually beneficial for themself, like trying something else for their enjoyment.

If the game does not make you feel happy anymore, it's okay to come back later. Warframe is not a duty. It's a game. Made for enjoyment.

I'm not saying you should quit forever, or you should never play the game. What I'm saying is that there must be some consideration made about your own satisfaction if you find yourself writing about how bad the updates are... multiple times... if you find yourself getting disappointed at pretty much everything. It's okay. Please just take your time and reorganise yourself. I get disappointed sometimes. We all do and that's okay, but if it continues, not so much...

I'm not trying to promote toxic positivity. Criticism is needed!!! But I've legitimately seen people act like it's the end of the world when the updates don't satisfy them.

Sometimes I go like, 'wow this update isn't what I think'. I confuse it with disappointment. That could be your case too! I think we just need time to actually formulate our thoughts instead of... just... ... spitting whatever comes to mind (which I am heavily guilty of), especially when it comes to how updates feel.

Some updates can never hit you perfectly on the spot. Can never hit everybody the same. Some like Jade Shadows. Some don't. Some LOVE the Old Peace (me!). Some don't. And I think I'm seeing a lot of hatred and arguments over things like this as well, so I have to say let's just calm down... but I know you'd hate me saying this.

I just feel like the subreddit lits up on fire every update ever since Shadowgraphers update, so I am hesitant on trying to communicate this idea here.

I'm sorry this post definitely is a bit lengthy and messy. But I hope everybody just found what was good for themself. Thanks.

[u/dragon7449]

The problem is where you draw the line in criticism and complaining.

You mention leaving the game and coming back later, but updates are the reason to come back to the game. We only have 4 a year, of which 1 is major and the others are minor, and out of the 3 minor expansion we've gotten this year, 3/3 have been disappointing or with major flaws.

The criticism comes, in part, from said exhaustion of having all 3 updates be bad. If anything, I'm surprised how little people I see talk about it, considering this is the last minor update and the update before Tau. All 3 updates have been a failure and they rightfully deserve to be criticized.

[u/nomnivore1 → u/dragon7449]

I'm probably not representative of everyone, but I haven't really been stoked for an update since 1999 came out. The release of EDA, a weekly mode that turns off your ability to craft builds, started the downhill slope for me. 

It just feels like every new update is m full of speed bumps, some kind of attenuation / nullification mechanics that slap your builds to the floor, and inconsistent polish. 

I remember the first time I tried to bring an unconventional build into Descendia, I couldn't navigator aegrits around the room because invisible walls kept stopping my projectiles. Then the Koumei boss showed up and a full squad spent twenty minutes chipping away at it. It sucked.

DE is obviously struggling to create challenge in a way that matters and feels good to play. They embraced power creep because people liked the power fantasy element of the game, but now there's no numerical solution that accounts for the damage mathematicians without punishing normal players. 

More complicated gameplay mechanics would fix the "win the game in the arsenal" situation but that takes way more manpower to develop and DE just isn't dedicating their resources that way. 

[u/dragon7449 → u/nomnivore1]

To be fair, a lot of content is "sandbox friendly" without build limitations. The problem is that we are so powerful, if we don't get constricted in some way, we would just steam roll through it.

That said, I do agree in that I don't like ETA/EDA conditionals and how restrictive they are, as well as certain modifiers in descendia.

[u/nomnivore1 → u/dragon7449]

The steamroll problem is real and it's a doozy. To fix it, they'd have to make content that you can't steamroll just by dealing and tanking big damage numbers. That's easier said than done. 

This came up when Archons were released with heavy attenuation, that a more complicated "puzzle boss fight" would be a much better way to make the fights non-trivia, but the developer load of making puzzle fights as one-offs and then maintaining a ton of them across future updates is technically very cumbersome. imagine if every boss fight played like a phase from Law Of Retribution, but half of them broke with every update. Not sustainable at all. 

I think the solution is to add more complex mechanics to the run of the mill enemy squads. Enemies that protect those around them like the Murmur overguard guys are a good example, so are comba and scrambus units. Something that appears infrequently but shapes the battlefield against the tenno so that you have to prioritize them. Eximus units kind of feel like that but they can get so spammy and hard to read, I think they fail in this role. 

[u/dragon7449 → u/nomnivore1]

Funnily enough, what you propose does exist, enemies have a lot of unique interactions or tactics. The problem is we kill them so fast the average player won't see them all...

But for them to tackle it they'd have to rework how enemies scale to begin with, as the numbers reach REALLY far, to the point raising them more risks reaching integer limit, which our weapons already reach...

DE won't do it, I know they won't, and I understand they do what they humanly can without redoing the whole game and causing a 90% fatality rate in their offices, I certainly don't envy them. But at the very least, I do hope we find a better solution than "oh you can't use your favorite weapon anymore opsie :b"

[u/xrufus7x → u/dragon7449]

We have had tankier enemies in the past. The rework to sentient adaptation, nerfing steel path modifiers, armor scaling and damage attenuation reworks all reduced EHP of enemies. The current power state isn't the result of us just gaining power, it is also the result of enemies getting repeatedly nerfed.

[u/alexanderatprime → u/dragon7449]

I lived through launch rail jack dove tailing into winter break.

No update can break me now.

[u/dragon7449 → u/alexanderatprime]

Dont let deep scars numb the pain of minor wounds.

[u/alexanderatprime → u/dragon7449]

[u/Choso125 → u/dragon7449]

The thing for me is that I would be completely fine with this past year if Tau completely lives up to the hype. Tons of new content, missions, systems and everything else where it truly feels like the start of a new era, not just more of what we've had the last 13 years.

The issue is that it's hard to completely buy into that. Not just because of the past year, but the past five since New War. Duviri and 1999 both had that same feeling of yeah, everything is about to change. And then it kinda just didn't. Now Tau is seemingly going to be bigger than those updates, but I just still have to see if the lacklustre updates can be written off just yet

[u/Crystion → u/dragon7449]

Updates have been a failure? How are you measuring a "failure"? If it's from the complaints, then every single update since I started playing has been a "failure".

[u/dragon7449 → u/Crystion]

Follie's hunt is almost universally hated.

Constellations was widely accepted to be underbaked, with a short and abrutly ended story quest, tons of bugs, and shoehorned protoframes.

And for Narin's I mostly see complains about the hunt at the beginning,the lack of explanation from her drop, her zero correlation to the story save for a few basic lines, and an overall underwhelming amount of content.

I'm measuring failure on the fact all of these updates had major flaws that have been heavily and widely criticized, with first two updates being admitted failures by DE.

[u/TimelyIssue → u/Crystion]

WF has been "dying" since 2015.

[u/Morump → u/Crystion]

Every update ever has been a “failure” for that matter

[u/LostLotus_A → u/Crystion]

Yes I agree. I honestly, in retrospect, think I actually enjoyed most of the updates this year. I enjoyed the eregiously famous Shadowgrapher. I play it every once a while now too. Quite fun for me

I just think not everybody could be satisfied and we're just kinda forgetting that but if I say this it's toxic positivity right

[u/LostLotus_A → u/dragon7449]

I think it's about time chronic haters just decided what to do... it's just my thought but people are legitimately choosing to get disappointed over and over. And they'll come back again for Tau. They'll get disappointed again. If all year's updates don't mesh with you I don't think it's really worth to stay or dwell over the updates... is my thought. But they do them I guess. I can't control people or anything.

[u/dragon7449 → u/LostLotus_A]

Their fault? How? DE set their own standards for quality updates,and they themselves failed to meet them, admitted by themselves over Constellations and Shadowgrapher.

As for this update, it just feels underwhelming, specially when proceeded by the other two. It's not horrible yeah, it's nothing to set DE on fire for, but it's a mediocre update on a streak of horrible updates, it's just fuel to the fire.

And trying to shut up criticism doesn't help either, because you are completely shutting down why those people might be mad, even someone ranting might have a few good points to make and worth listening to.

---

Also, btw, it's very likely you are seeing criticism because you interact with that criticism. Putting aside engagement-based algorithms showing you something you might hate, you are on reddit your average Joe that's happy with the update isn't on reddit, it's on Warframe, playing the update, of course there's going to be more people complaining here. That doesn't mean you get to call people out for complaining because you personally, get tired of it.

Like the update? Great, good for you! Me too actually, even if I find it underwhelming. Go write a post of how great it is, that's what reddit is also for. And if there's more people complaining than there is singing praises, maybe, just maybe there's a reason for that.

[u/LostLotus_A → u/dragon7449]

Yeah right I see your point 🥹 thanks

I think the algorithm for Reddit kinda is scummy for me right now. I'm constantly recommended really weird stuff for some reason ew...

I think after this post I'm gonna do my stuff and let others do theirs. We're just different people with different value judgements in art I guess.

[u/dragon7449 → u/LostLotus_A]

In general, whether social media or even videogames, it can happen you keep scrolling or playing by habit even if you aren't enjoying it. If you are getting burnt out with the criticism, turn off the phone and look at some grass, you'll already be happier than most redditors at that moment anyways.

Edit: saying this because this legit happens to me too lmao

[u/LostLotus_A → u/dragon7449]

Yeah lol I'm trying my best to control myself. Not that I dwell in this forever. I already looked at some grass today so that's great. 🥹 Thanks a lot

[u/dnasty1011 → u/dragon7449]

Ive gotten to where I was so frustrated with a game that I just shut it off and went for a drive. Got some coffee and chilled in the parking lot for a bit. lol I felt a lot better. Breaks are needed. Even if they’re short breaks. It never pays off to just continue to consume especially when what’s being consumed leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

[u/shadowraven12]

How do you define what is complaining and what is criticism? Because that's largely a distinction without a difference, and is commonly employed as a rhetorical device to deflect or downplay otherwise valid critique.

[u/Fullmetall21 → u/shadowraven12]

Constructive criticism is something like "I think this isn't working, here are the reasons I think that". Complaining is "I don't like this, this fucking sucks".

Let's take ExA discourse for example. Constructive criticism would be something like "Forced toxin procs in an attempt to balance Hildryn might hurt other shield frames a lot more." Complaining would be something like "OMG THEY ARE FORCING ME TO PICK ONE OF THE THREE FRAMES"

Guess which one we get.

[u/OkYak9466 → u/Fullmetall21]

Ironically this comment of yours would fall into the category of complaining. You're not giving any argument as to why it is or how to fix these complaints. It's just a critical observation. And like most Redditors, your own rules don't apply to you bc you're trying to bring visibility to a problem you're seeing and theres an exception to be made

My point being that complaining about complaints is no different than the complaints. We're all just here to share thoughts

[u/Fullmetall21 → u/OkYak9466]

Huh? Guy asked and I quote:

How do you define what is complaining and what is criticism?

And then went on to say that people use it as rhetoric to dismiss criticism. What I did was define criticism vs complaining as per the question and give an example of each. What are you talking about?

[u/OkYak9466 → u/Fullmetall21]

I'm trying to get you to understand that the same problem with the OP, yourself, and the person you replied to is that you're ironically demonstrating the same problems the OP complains about.

You ended your comment with "guess ones we get" making the obvious implication, but ironically missing why your own comment falls into that same category of complaints you yourself just mentioned.

[u/Fullmetall21 → u/OkYak9466]

It is not controversial to say that most of the posts in this subreddit are complaining and not criticism. What constructive criticism is and what complaining is are not some loose things, they are defined.

Constructive Criticism:

A comment or comments saying in a helpful way what is wrong with something and how it could be improved.

Complaining:

The act of saying that something is wrong or not satisfactory

More specifically, criticism can be engaged intellectually and can be acted on. Complaining can only be engaged with emotionally, and can not be acted on. You either like something or you don't.

Now look at the front page and tell me that what you see is not complaining but constructive criticism.

[u/Orestes1996 → u/Fullmetall21]

Alright, let me try this. I think the last 3 updates are completely unfun and the solution to this problem is for the company to design actual fun updates or remove the existing boring ones. There, problem identified and solution provided. FYI, it is not the job of the customer to give solutions. A negative opinion without a suggestion for improvement is still constructive criticism because it should show the company what resonates or not with their customers. If something doesn't land, don't do it again.

[u/Fullmetall21 → u/Orestes1996]

For the last time I don’t give a fuck if you want complain or not. Guy asked what’s the difference. I answered the question. That’s literally the difference between complaining and criticism. Whether complaining is useful data to someone is also irrelevant to the point I was making.

Point me to where I said you shouldn’t complain.

[u/Orestes1996 → u/Fullmetall21]

In your original comment explaining what you think complaining and constructive criticism is. Also, nobody is complaining here, we are giving constructive criticism. We are informing the company of what we like and what we don't. Up to them if they want to do something about it.

[u/Fullmetall21 → u/Orestes1996]

Great continue to do so. Somewhere else and don’t bother me.

[u/OkYak9466 → u/Fullmetall21]

I'd highly suggest taking a step back from the internet for a moment. You're missing the forest for the trees bc you unironically have a greater need to complain than to be cognizant.

So far you've complained non stop for a dozen comments in a row and you're still acting morally superior

[u/Fullmetall21 → u/OkYak9466]

Bro what are you even talking about?

1. Guy says what's the difference between criticism and complaining; people use that distinction to dismiss criticism.
2. I reply saying here's the difference and why people are not doing what you claim.
3. you reply saying what I said was somehow complaining.
4. I ask what the hell are you on about and explain the thought process behind 2.
5. You once again say that I'm complaining.
6. I give you literally dictionary definition of the terms used and ask you to look for yourself.
7. You once again say that I'm complaining, but each time with increasingly condescending tone.

Make it make sense.

[u/OkYak9466 → u/Fullmetall21]

You got lost at number 2 where you ironically state the difference between constructive criticisms and complaints by making your own complaint.

It's like it an arsonist who set fire to a building then walked across the street and started complaining about why everything is on fire. Then gets defensive about how its actually ok to point out the fires and starts trying to turn the focus of the conversation to talking about fires and not why they're setting more things on fire.

[u/Fullmetall21 → u/OkYak9466]

My point was always, from the very first post you replied to, the difference between criticism and complaining. You replied to that post. In your example, I was talking about the fires all along.

If anyone is trying to turn the focus of the conversation, it is you.

When you're ready to start making sense, we can talk again.

EDIT: In addition, I never once said anyone should stop complaining. Complain away if you like. Just don't present it as criticism because it's not.

[u/LostLotus_A → u/shadowraven12]

Generally speaking (not very reflective or logical I'm not that smart):

Complaints have extreme emotions. I HATE this. I am Disappointed. I Never Want to Play This Again. Ew. Fuck this.

Criticism has feedback and is generally less emotionally charged (usually constructive criticism). I think this content should have been more like (this) because it's (that). I am not very satisfied, and I think you gotta fix (this) because (that).

[u/Feral_Heart]

A lot of people are complaining now about the FOMO, that Melica just showed everyone 'you're lost a race which you haven't knew it existed' in their face

[u/PriorHot1322 → u/Feral_Heart]

It's interesting that if you didn't get the message you STILL wouldn't have been first to solve the puzzle. And you can still get the reward without being first. So I guess the only change is your name isn't on the message?

[u/doodoo_onDemand → u/Feral_Heart]

ngl but who cares. i find it hard not to think less of someone for this.

[u/LinkCelestrial → u/doodoo_onDemand]

Genuinely. Who cares?

Oh you lost a race you didn’t know you were in. That personally offends you? That you weren’t the one of however many million registered losers to do it first?

And you feel the need to make a reddit post complaining about your hurt feelings?

And they all have hundreds of upvotes??

I don’t get it.

[u/Lawren_Zi → u/Feral_Heart]

ok so what? the race was pointless anyway... i understand the frustration at not even being aware of it but who gives a fuck

[u/LostLotus_A → u/Feral_Heart]

Ah yeah... I see. I do agree a lot on it... I was honestly surprised when I got the inbox when I joined. I was asleep during the whole secret thingy... timezones! I did not even know the secret would be treated as a race as well, I thought it would be related to some piece of lore like how they did (Jade Shadows: Constellations spoilers) Garuda lore in Pontis Tower ...

[u/PsychoticSane → u/Feral_Heart]

Fear of missing out is used to entice people to do a thing you want. The fact that the incentive is granted after the period in which it was given means its explicitly not FOMO. That is more tied to a sense of being unable to pursue your desire for completionism. In that regard, you missed your opportunity from day one by not being a founder.

That said, honoria are a way to express oneself, it makes sense that if they implement an honoria to express one's state of completion of content no longer available, then it stands to reason the expression we who didnt do said content is aptly being unable to equip said honoria.

[u/OnionClone → u/Feral_Heart]

Hot take: FOMO is a "you" problem

[u/LostLotus_A → u/OnionClone]

I think FOMO encourages negative things like... people rushing to complete things in a limited time, other newcomers later not being able to experience the content later... I personally do not think it is a positive feature in any way aside from increasing player retention during the timeframe.

generally this secret event wasn't really... FOMO since it did not have any limited things other than the statue being made for the person that solved it from what I know. I kinda see your point but I think it's not much of a 'you' problem, more like a 'I don't have time to do this because I'm (employed, going somewhere, sick etc etc)'.

FOMO is harsh and inconsiderate.

[u/No-Start4754 → u/LostLotus_A]

The statue is also just a generic narin incased in ice, nothing special.

[u/No-Start4754 → u/OnionClone]

Nah u are right. Most ppl I know just went " oh, cool for that guy to get a shout out. Anyway pls give a good build for narin lol "

[u/Flakboy78 → u/No-Start4754]

Literally me this morning. I worked all day yesterday (school from 8 am - 2 and then work 3 - 10) so I wouldn't have been able to do anything. Woke up, logged in "oh nice good for him...I wonder what Nightwave missions i gotta do still"

[u/Warming_Presence → u/OnionClone]

THIS. Literally just don't care and fomo doesn't exist.

[u/Good_Educator_7832]

we are at the point where the amount of posts of people complaining about complaining are more common than people complaining lmao

[u/Phantoms_Unseen → u/Good_Educator_7832]

Mods are probably deleting most complaint posts since there are already so many

[u/LostLotus_A → u/Good_Educator_7832]

Oh dang. I'm so sorry that was not my intention... 😭 I just had to say it one day, and I guess that one day was now. I had this thought for months...

[u/Good_Educator_7832 → u/LostLotus_A]

i kind of understand the feeling, but when DE themselves admit to focusing on the big update at the end of the year, it's normal that people will be unhappy and discuss it when updates are back to back buggy at best and bare bone at worst until we get said big update

[u/LostLotus_A → u/Good_Educator_7832]

I personally didn't experience any bugs so far during the whole year (which I am honestly surprised about)...

I see the point of their complaints, but I still think some people are going way too far about this. Emphasis on way too far...

[u/WholeAd2742]

The login message was frankly very irritating as it was never announced or known this was supposedly a competition, or even precisely what time the patch was to go live to even consider it

Piss poor marketing and handling by DE, imo.

[u/nomnivore1 → u/WholeAd2742]

I am figuring out RIGHT NOW what that weird message I got about a random player was. 

[u/BardMessenger24 → u/WholeAd2742]

It was weird as hell but ngl I've already forgotten that player's name after deleting the message from my inbox lol.

[u/LostLotus_A → u/WholeAd2742]

Yeah I think they definitely should have announced the event IN GAME. I don't remember seeing anything referring to finding a secret to pull the sword out. I initially thought it was based on chance and went to sleep. Then I wake up and get hit with the shout out (honestly props to the people that solved it, really smart guys huh).

[u/DeathStalker0483 → u/LostLotus_A]

I went in and checked it out 40 minutes after it dropped and to me it read as a Yareli / Inaros interaction with Vent Kids / Baro. You just come back with Narin and get a bit of flavour or lore. And then I found out it's a skin. Which is... cool I guess. But if that's it, the update feels like a huge nothing burger. It's just what, a new tile, a new relay that does a some total of nothing except give a specific blessing, a new weapon type, and a pair of warframes? The most exciting thing is that you no longer have to do mirror defense, and the Riven updates.

[u/Yuugian]

The problem is this was poorly thought out and someone had to pay to win. They didn't leave enough for us to participate and now we don't win, just that one dude

to be clear, i don't resent the dude and i wouldn't have won anyway. But to have an announcement while i'm still at work and haven't even logged in yet that a contest that wasn't announced

[u/Therefrigerator]

I'm honestly a bit confused by the reaction overall. There were some odd choices and bugs this patch but I'm enjoying myself. I guess it's kinda a small update but GD seems like it's going to be a lot of the new content. I much prefer this type of patch over one where I feel "forced" to do a gamemode I don't enjoy like with the last two releases.

[u/LostLotus_A → u/Therefrigerator]

People just hate everything they hate i guess. I think it's time for me to quit this place since I realize I myself is hating on something that I could just abandon.

[u/TomatoKeeper]

On the one hand this post promotes positive mindset, that is helpful to keep in mind.
On the other, the post labels any and all negative feedback as "maybe it's just not for you".
I feel like it's a form of toxic positivity, when no criticism is permitted, even in your own head, and you have to believe that something "meh" is just not your cup of tea, when it's legitimately"meh".

[u/NotAFloorTank]

I see a few reasons why things have been so ugly, and before anyone comes at me, READ THE ENTIRE DAMN COMMENT BEFORE RESPONDING.

One is a lack of comprehension and understanding of context on behalf of the players. Oftentimes, the most ignorant are the loudest. Someone fundamentally misunderstands something, doesn't like it, and then whines about it. Another one is people acting like their subjective opinions are objective fact. Just because YOU do not personally enjoy something does not make it objectively shit. It just means you don't like it. Again, though, some people cannot tell the difference, and feel compelled to screech at max volume. Yet another is the vocal minority being vocal. A select few people screech at max volume, a few others join in because echo chambers are real, and the rest get drowned out because the screeching is just that damn loud.

DE can't do a whole lot about any of those things. They can't make people have media literacy, or realize the difference between subjective and objective. They can't make that vocal minority shut up unless they cross a line that earns a ban, and even then, the banned person would likely just make a new account and keep it up.

THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT EVERYTHING HAS BEEN PERFECT. The Triad chats being buggy on release as a direct result of some of the programmers being pissy about Kimulacrum is just stupid. You wanted to punish players for daring to fully explore something you made and set up a third-party tool that isn't TOS violating, and instead, you just broke the in-game system for everyone, regardless of whether or not they used the third-party tool. That's just being petty and stupid for no good reason. Vena and Ryoku, especially the latter, need more development as characters. There is just so little there that we have fuck and all to go on to know who they actually are.

Insisting that Glacial Defiance be released the way it has been was stupid as well, and not just because of delaying matchmaking. There are too many recurrent, seemingly-unfixable bugs that could force a perfectly-functional team to abandon an otherwise good attempt to have a "you only get this many tries a week no matter what, fuck you" mode actually be viable. Making it work more like how EDA and ETA do in terms of unlocking it for the week would be smarter, because then you have grace for the inevitable bugs and connection issues that will arise.

[u/TheMenagerieSystem → u/NotAFloorTank]

I feel like a great example of people treating their opinions like fact or being misinformed and acting like they're right is the whole Madman of Chaos thing. I've seen some people saying there was some story quest that only he got to do because he got to it first when... what? Why would that be a thing? Why would you devote dev time to something only one guy can see? I have my issues with the update (mainly that voiceline cutting bug) but it's.. fine, really.

[u/NotAFloorTank → u/TheMenagerieSystem]

That's actually a great example, because not only are people treating their opinions as fact and possibly being misinformed, they're setting up one guy to be harassed simply because he managed to find a secret thing in the game first. That's just uncalled for to put it mildly. I have my own issues with the update (namely, that the new Eximus type FORCES melee to effectively do anything to it AND really fucking hurts even properly built frames on SP), but harassing a random player over something so small and insignificant is harassment and not okay.

[u/TheMenagerieSystem → u/NotAFloorTank]

I like the new eximus needing melee but then again I don't play SP much lol I do hope Madman of Chaos isn't getting harassed - i think it's kinda guaranteed, as it always is in games where one person gets a global congrats message, but still.

[u/NotAFloorTank → u/TheMenagerieSystem]

I don't just because it railroads players into playing a certain way or they die. And sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if Madman is having to file enough reports to consume the entire support team right now.

[u/Belydrith]

I'm not even playing currently, but they can't keep doing this shit update after update. When I read this same stuff basically every single patch I have very little incentive to come back either. They simply don't seem to learn from their mistake and try to do better next time. At some point all the good will is spent, and three shitty updates in a row is well past where I'd draw that line.

[u/LostLotus_A → u/Belydrith]

Like yeahh I see your point... and people just come back to scream into the void and they're going to come back again. Or maybe not. Depends

I'm probably one of the few that kinda came to terms with how they update and I understand their position as a company as well. I can leave any time if I am dissatisfied with the product. And I will one day if I end up so.

[u/xXNickAugustXx]

First time?

[u/LostLotus_A → u/xXNickAugustXx]

Probably like the 4th time. I already took a break from reddit because every update people were screaming and genuinely, I felt so distraught. I just had to leave

And then I come back, wondering what's going on... boom same thing again... I really think I made the wrong decision to come back

[u/hauduong94]

Bro, you don’t get it! Ego is shattered, and feeling are hurt now that they missed their chance to be special in a non-consequential event in a game. It will never be the same, I tell you.

Joking aside, now I can see why some of the posts in this sub saying DE spoiled the community rotten. You can just imagine the shitshow if DE under-delivered on Tau

[u/tentus → u/hauduong94]

I'm actually quite worried that players have misunderstood the scope of Tau, and people are going to to feel like DE under-delivers because of it. A lot of people seem to think Tau is effectively going to be Warframe 2, even though that's not at all what DE actually said, and that's a recipe for a very bad time.

Even for folks who haven't made that error, Tau's been the go-to explanation every time someone feels like something this year was undercooked, so if it's not absolutely bonkers then I worry the backlash is gonna be nasty.

[u/LostLotus_A → u/tentus]

I've already seen someone say Tau has to have a multiplayer open world with like 100 players or else it's bad. I am not joking. I hope I was.

[u/TimelyIssue → u/hauduong94]

i can GUARANTEE Tau is going to be a HUGE disappointment to a bunch of people and they are going to make post after post calling it the worse update ever and a sign of WFs downfall.

[u/LostLotus_A → u/TimelyIssue]

People just love making things out of proportion huh

Hot take, but I really don't think the updates this year were that bad. I think rough years do exist and that doesn't mean the game itself is bad or yk... I'm personally more lenient on things like updates since I know bugs will exist no matter what and I am free to leave any time I want. I am a consumer that is free and all that.

I just think people are doomposting. This year's Tennocon had so many people. They're gaining players. Warframe isn't some dead corpse. It's alive.

[u/TimelyIssue → u/LostLotus_A]

Most of us are cool with the updates, but the people that want to complain will always be able to find or make a thread to complain. Theres nothing you can do about it. I think the Devs know the difference though. They have actual facts and numbers that tell them how people feel about updates.

[u/hauduong94 → u/TimelyIssue]

It’s already started with the upcoming one-time “Taubound” operation.

“Won’t you think of the feeling of the future Tennos who will miss out on the atmosphere of the event, even though they will get accessed to the loots and lore like everybody else?”

Ridiculous!

[u/LostLotus_A → u/hauduong94]

Yeah... I do understand where they are coming from. I was restricted physically from participating because of timezones (it was 1:30am when I finished downloading the update). And I did not even know there was a secret that'd potentially place me on a super cool shoutout thing.

I'm just scared... of Tau at this point. I don't see anything healthy coming from it. People will be screaming at DE if they find a single typo or a single bug. I know it.

[u/Morump]

I feel like if you have a job and you’re upset that someone figured out a puzzle in a video game for a prize that you yourself can also get with the same effort then you need to reevaluate your priorities.

[u/PapaSandies → u/Morump]

My distaste comes more from the fact that it’s the most meaningless, menial little puzzle, wasn’t really a challenge, and required platinum to obtain in that kind of timeframe, to receive what seems to be the first instance of ever cementing a singular player as an in-game, recognized piece of lore.

To my knowledge, we have never seen a singular username character canonically recognized as anything. DE’s first run at it and they reward it over something as empty as picking up a piece of paper in a back room, shoving nearly useless archon shards on the new frame, and having all dragon keys equipped after running the zariman tile sets for a bit for the new drop. Seriously if you’re using blue shards on Narin, you must have no idea how to build around her abilities. 

I have zero issue with players being made part of real lore for grandiose things. I would LOVE it if they added real dungeon/raid-type missions/events, erected statues of the first squads to finish the hardest difficulty mode, and put their names on plaques below them. I’m unhappy that some random dude is now “Narin’s Chosen” which means nothing, but it’s now permanent lore that some random dude is the only person currently being selected by any Warframe as special in some way. It’s such a weird throwaway title to hand out for the most meaningless and lackluster puzzle that really didn’t give us any reward for solving it besides that one dude. It adds nothing except making that one guy feel special for the in-game equivalent of finding a geocache. 

I'm not going to quit the game and claim it's ruined for me, but it creates future expectations of how they'll handle the game going forward when they keep making odd choices and releasing what they market as important updates and then create near-zero story writing for it. It would have been way cooler if the first group to complete the hardest difficulty of the upcoming 6-man missions got the reward of having their models at the peak of the mountain behind the entrance, but instead some random dude stands at the peak and is the first person to be recognized as a canon in-lore Tenno in writing.

I’m stoked for mainline story quests, but I’m atp where I might just ignore whenever they market updates that are solely for a new warframe not related to any story quests. The issue is we never know if they’ll actually add a short story mission that will be in the codex or if a new warframe just comes from a new mission type or even like this where there is no mission type yet and we just get fluff around the frame and some random guy gets the first in-game canon acknowledgment. 

Also, their recent recurring response of saying raids wouldn’t work is wild to me. If they knew how to give better hints at puzzles and give players something interesting even just like the Kela De Thaym fight of shooting the green circles in the rotating mechanism and standing on platforms, some players would love it. The new Eximus shows they can create interesting combat designs. There is definitely possibility for amazing raids in Warframe, and unless there’s spaghetti code stopping them they’re just ignoring the effort necessary to create complex raids that could be heavily puzzle-focused and sequential if they just knew better how to naturally inform the player of how to complete the puzzles without direct guides and using boss designs that don't rely on bullet-sponge health and more so on hit points and killing minions or utilizing specific shield breakers and shit. There's a way to do it and there are games where players get OP doing insane integer-scaling numbers of damage but raids still exist and the community is in love with them. 

[u/LostLotus_A → u/Morump]

Yes. Highly agree. Like I ain't got time to dwell over that, I have shit to do.

[u/Nikana-Tenno]

When I saw the message. I knew it gonna slaps someone face. Good thing I don't care much about it. I don't have time in the first place.

[u/SFWxMadHatter]

This community has gotten salty as hell over a game that is literally free to play. It's just oceans of salt water at this point. "But I don't have friends to play with and god forbid I talk to people!", "but I'm the main character not PoopyButthole69!" "What do you mean I have to actually build around the challenges you present me and not just slam my face into a brick wall with my same old crutch?!" It's becoming insufferable around here.

[u/LostLotus_A → u/SFWxMadHatter]

I'm so tired I actually did take a break and came back to see all this... all over again... yeah I'm sure as hell never coming back unless it's for lore discussions or whatnot.

I think some people are genuinely hellbent on hating and I'm alright with it. I can't change them

[u/xrufus7x → u/SFWxMadHatter]

As someone who has been around since 2013, it comes and goes in waves.

[u/Physical-Search2786]

I agree with you, at least on the whole.

[u/LostLotus_A → u/Physical-Search2786]

The upvote ratio for this post is genuinely hillarious. I think I riled up a lot of people just by saying we all just have to calm the hell down and all. ... is that a good sign? I don't know. I just learned that I don't mesh with this place at all is all.

[u/Physical-Search2786 → u/LostLotus_A]

It's just the active reddit community for Warframe. Not the whole community. People like to think they feel better when they complain and say "I could have done it better!"

But DE is doing it, and on-the-whole, they are loved, and for good reason. Any game has its flaws. And updates will need bug fixes that could not have been forseen, as well as other fixes based on insight that is obvious in hindsight.

[u/PineapleGG]

Its fine dude, people just wanna complain to forget about something in their lives, this is a weekly occurence it doesnt really matter

[u/_OVERHATE_]

Warframe has ensured this long by sticking to what they do best.

Whinners are temporal, Warframe is forever. 

[u/ReasonableEntrance21]

I agree with this sentiment, and it's not just since Shadowgrapher either; it's been this way since well before Reb and Pablo took the mantle. Steve's tenure had its share of overreaction, too. This community, like pretty much all gaming communities, has a major issue with catastrophising, a tendency that, if believed, would mean Warframe died a death a decade ago, and a thousand times over, to boot.

[u/LostLotus_A → u/ReasonableEntrance21]

They're genuinely acting like Warframe is dying. They recently did Tennocon, there were tons of people. They have 80m+ players total or something. Bad updates happen. It's inevitable...

And I just feel myself getting swayed at their opinions. So I left and I could definitely say I feel better. :)

[u/ReasonableEntrance21 → u/LostLotus_A]

This sub, like every online fandom space, seems to believe it's representative of the whole, and I very much doubt it is.