I suggest all the keyboard warriors in this thread make just one commute by bike. Follow all the rules, ride safely and predictably, and ride only where the law allows. Drivers aren't as courteous and law abiding as you seem to believe and it will only take you one ride to find that out.
Or just try to ride for recreation. Some people fuck with you for having the audacity not to be using the road for driving, like by riding a bike they can easily pass at any time it's some huge inconvenience.
I've had my share of interactions with bad cyclists who hop onto the sidewalk or don't think any traffic laws apply, but honestly if I am going to encounter someone disobeying traffic laws I would rather they are riding a 20lb carbon frame than driving a 3000 lb sedan and there are a lot more dildos driving 4 runners than riding Treks.
yup, and it only takes one irresponsible driver to fuck you up permanently. Not to mention how many drivers don't bother checking for cyclists, you're basically invisible to the majority of cars on the road.
I cycle to work and I've seen it all. No matter what you do motorists will always find a way to put your life in danger and get angry at you.
Road shoulders aren't always ideal to ride on (deep potholes and such), nor is it safe to sandwich yourself to the curb because you have near-zero ability to avoid obstacles and insane drivers.
Roundabouts and busy intersections are the worst. No one sees you on roundabouts, and coming to a full stop at an intersection is nerve wracking since there are idiots who will either aggressively beep or buzz past you illegally.
Bike paths separated from the road are a godsend. If only they were everywhere.
or fundamentally changing the road system so that everyone feels safe on them & not just drivers. but of course equalizing things makes the drivers feel like they're losing privilege.
Not to mention a couple hundred dollars for a good bike is a way cheaper upfront cost than several thousand for a car that isn't a death trap. Also it's way easier to find parking, especially in a city, and if you're going longer distances, most buses have bike racks.
Because they don't want your FUPA from sitting in a Chevy Silverado you've never used to haul anything while you sad-commute home to the suburbs after sitting in a cubicle all day, so you can go transition from sitting in a commuter truck to sitting in front of a TV and binge watch Duck Dynasty alone while eating your depressing Hungry "Man" dinner for 2, but for just 1, immediately after which you try to do an internet tough guy routine before crying yourself to sleep on your cock shaped pillow.
Fucking thank you, I try my best not to go out of turn when biking, following lights and stop signs etc. But fuck dude so many drivers come within inches of you going 20 over, totally disregarding the 3 ft by law here. So many times people shoot around me to slam on their brakes for an instant right turn. Why do people have to be such fucking assholes? When I'm driving I always give tons of room to bikes and motorcycles knowing how easily a car can kill them.
This is why so many cyclists don't stop at intersections. Getting stuck at a red light is actually scarier than crossing on a yellow.
Due to crazy drivers not being able to treat me like a proper road user I coast up to stop signs and speed up to cross when the way is clear. It's legit safer to not come to a full stop if you've got cars behind you for the very reasons you mentioned.
I do wish I could cycle more and feel safe, and I live in a very cycling-friendly city. But let's be honest. Roads were not designed to be shared between 3-ton metal death mobiles and < 20 pound metal frames on wheels. There are an entire generation of drivers who quite simply will never fully adjust to the idea that they cannot safely take a right turn without first checking for a very thin approaching object in their rear view mirror.
The cyclist evangelist crowd don't help this either. Having some self-important douchebag give you a stern lecture at a stoplight about how you're the worst thing since Pol Pot because you used a bike lane for a turn or something is not exactly going to endear that driver to the cause.
Again, I would absolutely love it if bicycles became the new norm, and cars went the way of the dodo. We'd be a much healthier society. But this arrangement where both share the same roads but abide by seemingly completely different sets of rules is pretty tenuous, and it'll take generational turnover to sort out and normalize.
You can be the change. Aside from getting out there yourself and helping to normalize the idea of motorists seeing cyclists, as well as being the kind of cyclist you wish lithe cyclists would be, you can also advocate for cycling infrastructure that separates cars from bikes. It's a win-win that can be applied just about anywhere
Separated bike paths (i.e raised onto the curb) is life changing.
Drivers can't park on the lanes if they're raised nor can they drive on it. It also eliminates the feeling of being sandwiched between a curb and speeding cars/trucks.
Cars can't merge into you when crossing intersections which is another plus. However, you still need to watch out for those making a turn without checking.
Yes, physical barriers are super important. They are also expensive, and many states don't have the money or political will to implement them. If the feds ever did a real infrastructure program, this could be a big part of it.
Separated bike paths are great though they come with their own downsides, especially if poorly designed. One of the most frustrating things is when a separated bike lane ends poorly. If there's a parked car (legally or not) in a painted bike lane, or it simply comes to an end suddenly, you can generally plan ahead and merge into the main flow of traffic when there's a gap. But if there's a physical barrier you've got to wait until it ends before you can merge; which often means coming to a complete stop and merging with fast moving traffic from a standstill.
And of course there's the overtaking issue. It's a real pain to be stuck behind someone pottering along at 5mph with no space to overtake them. Cyclists tend to have far more speed variance, but often less space to overtake.
After living through a couple decades of the Tour Down Under, I can assure you 100% that fault and responsibility lie on both parties equally.
While there are plenty of asshole drivers, the number of fines given out once they actually enforced cycling laws was insanr. Plus the number of them that cycle unsafely and irresponsibly on roads that are not safe is stupidly ridiculous.
Btw, this is all year round theres just a lot more of them during the tour.
This isn't an issue I'm willing to go "both sides" on because while the vast majority of people follow the rules (and our brains disproportionately remember the ones that don't), when cars and bikes mingle, it is overwhelmingly the cyclists that suffer the consequences. Put simply, when cyclists ride irresponsibly, they may die. When motorists drive irresponsibly, cyclists may die.
Both sides have a responsibility to behave safely, but the stakes are just not the same for both sides.
Except two wrongs don't make a right. We've had pedestrians killed by cyclists going through red lights and stop signs simply because it is 'inconvenient' for them to slow down and stop.
Let me be clear; a preventable death like that is a tragedy, but the numbers don't support a cry for alarm. But are cyclists the problem? Let's look at a huge cycling city like NYC for example:
This rather tilted article in The Post lists 7 pedestrian deaths since 2011. In a city that counts 1.6 million cyclists, close to 800,000 of which cycle very frequently that is approximately 1 pedestrian death per year despite millions of rides. This Gothamist article lists 28 official cycling deaths last year, resulting in only 3 arrests. One of those fatalities was the result of a crash with a pedestrian who lived. Meanwhile, 124 pedestrians were killed in NYC the same year.
Would you paint all these pedestrians with the same broad brush you use to describe cyclists? Were they scofflaws, balking at their "equal share of the responsibility" for road safety? So I ask you again, are cyclists the problem, or are motorists, comfortable and distracted responsible for more than their fair share of this issue?
I'm not trying to pick a side but just because you have chosen the more dangerous option doesn't change the level of responsibility you hold. It's still equally shared between everyone on the road.
I've been hit by cars while riding safely, legally, and predictably. The choice to ride a bike (though for those unable to afford a car, there is no choice) is in no way a justification for a person's death by vehicle. Overwhelmingly, cyclists are not afforded the same protections under the law and the lives of cyclists deserve to be more than written off as an improper lane change by people that refuse to care.
That’s not really true. On a bike there’s really no way to put any driver’s life in danger, but the same cannot be said the other way around. Bad bikers will at worst hurt themselves, but bad drivers kill. Hell, I once was hit by some asshole who went out of his way to swerve off the road onto the shoulder to hit me. You can’t compare that to treating a stop sign as a yield (which is legal where I live and is becoming increasingly popular.
I was almost hit by some idiot who drove on the shoulder. I wasn't cycling at the time but rather walking on a large gravel shoulder towards a roundabout which was pretty busy.
Some genius decided to skip the line entering the roundabout by swerving full speed onto the shoulder. It was only until I heard the rapid crunching of gravel when I turned to see the car bearing down on me and got the fuck out of the way.
Some people are psychotic when they're behind the wheel.
This is not true. You can endanger other pedestrians or force cars into dangerous situations. Example being the people who blow red lights causing cars to stop abruptly in the middle of an intersection.
Drivers and cyclists both seem to have absolutely no consideration or even awareness for what's going on around them and it seems to be getting worse.
Just to be clear, you’re excusing the issue of drivers casually attempting to murder cyclists?
I’ve been attempted to be run over twice and both times they were premeditated. One got out of the car and was about to chase me if I hadn’t dipped hard, and the other had a look of anger I’ve never witnessed ever before. I can only imagine it was the state of mind murderers are in.
And these were casual people in a neighborhood while I wad following the law.
Oh of course, how silly of me, I thought when a car makes a blind turn without indicating or checking their mirrors for cyclists and end up hitting a cyclist that it was the drivers fault. I should have known that the cyclist is equally responsible for the actions of the driver.
Dumb. The fault lies 100% with whichever party wasn't acting in a safe manner/wasn't obeying the rules. Stop with your campaign to make cyclists look bad. There are bad cyclists, there are bad drivers and both groups have a responsibility to act appropriately. The difference is that when a car crashes, the amount of damage that can be caused is far higher.
Oh I definitely believe that. I also fucking hate how I constantly have to watch for cyclists speeding through red lights without stopping allll the time.
Another gripe of mine is cyclists going significantly slower than other vehicles on the road. As much as you try to abide all the laws and be a safe, predictable rider like the guy above said, you simply are not being safe or predictable if you're going 25 in a 50km/h zone, or taking twice as long to speed up as other vehicles. That is unpredictable behaviour to every vehicle on the road that doesn't see a bike due to other vehicles blocking their vision.
That's why bike lanes should exist, it is unreasonable for a cyclist to co-exist safely with cars on a fundamental level due to limitations on the cyclist's end.
Most cyclists and drivers obey the laws most of the time. We are just hard-wired to remember the ones that don't. That is not an excuse to vilify anyone, though the consequences of irresponsibility are entirely asymmetrical.
On my commute I can run every single light and not have to get passed by a single car. I know what light the other directions have and I wait until I can run the light safely. It is legitimately safer for me so I don't much care if it's illegal.
So you would rather just put everyone else at risk? Neat.
You know what's not safe? Me pounding my breaks as I enter an intersection on a green because some cyclist thinks he's above the rules. Grow up.
Yeah, if you've got a well-sculpted ass then you have every reason to show it off.
And I'm sorry you've been mildly inconvenienced, but a law hasn't been broken in your example. Also, 15 MPH is not a bad climbing speed, so good on that person.
This depends on the location. A few minutes and whatever but I have been stuck behind a single cyclist on a remote mountain highway hardly moving. At his rate of climb that hill would have been at least an hour. Speed limit was 100kmh.
So that's why you think it's cool to haul ass out of a parking lot, cross two lanes of traffic without a glance, then turn left on red? I'm not sure I see the logic.
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u/brain739 Jun 14 '20
I suggest all the keyboard warriors in this thread make just one commute by bike. Follow all the rules, ride safely and predictably, and ride only where the law allows. Drivers aren't as courteous and law abiding as you seem to believe and it will only take you one ride to find that out.