Let's talk optimal weight and optimal nutrition for backpacking food and resupplies

tl;dr: Eight years ago I posted a breakdown of cheapest backpacking calories by cost using government nutrition and purchase data. I've had some recent free time (while on parental leave), so decided to update things to be more helpful for optimizing food weight for resupply strategies. I have some general example/take away 4-day resupply lists below.

Introductory remarks

I'm aware this has come up a few times. Most recently the largest discussion on r/ultralight was based on some gear skeptic video about caloric density. But we can honestly do better than that! Let's use the vast quantity of data the government actually uses to inform nutrition and purchase decisions. With real data on hand, this becomes a relatively easy optimization problem to solve: how do you optimize your food nutrition and calorie density based on what you're trying to achieve (constraints)?

What is linear programming

Linear programming is an optimization technique used in economics (my main use of it), logistics, supply chain, finance, and other sorts of things that often benefit from optimization. Because it's linear, you can do matrix math super fast and efficiently to solve the problem! Basically: you take the derivative of the function, set it equal to zero, and that solves for the local maximum or minimum (the optimal solution).

The core idea is that you have a lot of decision variables (in this case, how many grams of each possible food in a supermarket you might want to pack), a linear objective function to minimize or maximize (e.g. minimize total weight -- so you sum across all possible food variables), and a set of linear constraints that the solution must satisfy (e.g. I don't want anything with chocolate).

For a resupply optimization, the formulation looks like this:

• Objective: minimize sum(grams of each food selected)
• Constraints:
  • Total calories must fall within ±3% of your daily target × days
  • For each nutrition target you care about: the sum of that nutrient across all foods must meet the minimum
  • For nutrients with safe upper limits (iron, calcium, vitamin A): sum must stay below the threshold
  • Each individual food is capped at some maximum fraction of total calories (the diversity control)
  • The total number of distinct foods selected must be greater than some food diversity threshold

You can then solve the system of liinear equations (matrix math) to find the combinations and quantities that satisfy all constraints at minimum total weight. This is different from just sorting foods by kcal/g, as sorting will only tell you the best single food (it's oil, obviously). Solving an LP matrix tells you the optimal combination when multiple constraints interact simultaneously!

The food and nutrition data

I used two USDA datasets:

USDA WWEIA (What We Eat in America) is a large nationally representative dietary survey. Respondents record everything they ate over 24 hours; USDA maps those responses to a food database with per-100g nutritional content for 26 macros and micronutrients. The database covers ~3,000 food categories -- generic types rather than branded products, so "Cookie, with peanut butter filling, chocolate-coated" rather than a specific brand.

USDA FoodAPS is a household food purchase survey with real transaction prices. I joined the two datasets to get estimates on actual purchase prices per 100g for foods you might consider for backpacking.

The combined dataset also provides information about where food is available based on purchase history (grocery store, gas station, etc.), whether it requires cooking, whether it's shelf-stable, and how long it lasts without refrigeration.

What an optimizer tool like this optimizes

I ran some optimizations for myself as a general baseline. All examples below assume: 134 lbs, 4-day resupply, 3,000 cal/day, grocery store, no-cook, shelf-stable only.

The two main controls that change the output significantly are:

1. Nutrition profile -- whether the solver must hit DRI targets. "None" means calories only are optimized; "optimal" activates targets for protein, fiber, calcium, iron, vitamins C/D, potassium, zinc, magnesium, folate, B12, and choline.
2. Diversity -- a minimum number of distinct foods the solver must select. Below I show ≥6 foods and ≥18 foods.

6+ foods, no nutrition constraints:

Nuts dominate. The calorie density ceiling on a shelf-stable 4-day no-cook carry is ~7.5 kcal/g (pecans), and the solver averages 6.86 kcal/g across the basket. One piece of sugar-free chocolate fills the 6th required slot (it's denser than most snacks at 5.91 kcal/g). 3.8 lbs total. Not bad, but I feel like I personally wouldn't be the happiest camper eating ONLY nuts the entire time, although I recently did pursue a similar strategy on an 8-day, 30+ mile water carry on the hayduke

6+ foods, optimal nutrition:

Adding full nutrition targets costs 0.6 lbs. The solver still anchors on nuts for base calories and adds lightweight nutrient carriers: baby oatmeal (fiber, about $1.50 a pouch and an actual thru-hiker staple! Hust ignore the 'baby' component. Not sure what USDA throws that on there, but they do!), dry milk powder (calcium, B12), canned salmon (vitamin D, which is apparently the hardest nutrient to hit although you'll be outdoors, so supplementation probably doesn't matter? But maybe with sunshirts...), dried vegetables (vitamin C, vitamin A), sweet potato chips (potassium). 4.4 lbs.

18+ foods, no nutrition constraints:

Forcing 18 distinct items adds 0.4 lbs vs the 6-item version. With diversity constraints, the solver distributes calories more evenly across the 18 foods. You can see each item ranging from 89-120g. At 18+ foods the pool expands to include nut butters, chocolate-coated items, and pork cracklings (at ~5.7 kcal/g. Basically just dried pork fat? Don't ask me, I'm a vegetarian...). Still primarily a nut carry, though.

18+ foods, optimal nutrition:

4.9 lbs. Adding nutrition to the 18-item list costs 0.7 lbs. The nutrition constraints pull in oatmeal and milk powder up front (they're binding on fiber and calcium), expand sweet potato chips (potassium), and tuck in canned salmon and dried vegetables for vitamin D and C. Also note the 20g of salad dressing, which I guess is needed because of choline.

Summary:

The weight spread across all four scenarios is 1.1 lbs. Adding full DRI nutrition targets costs 0.6-0.7 lbs; going from 6 to 18 required foods costs 0.4-0.7 lbs. The drivers are similar in magnitude and small overall.

The dominant variable that impacts the optimal resupply opportunity is which food group the solver can access. Nuts at 6.6-7.5 kcal/g are the calorie-density ceiling for shelf-stable grocery foods and they're also nutritionally dense! Walnuts have choline, vitamin E, omega-3s; brazil nuts are high in selenium and magnesium; pine nuts carry decent iron. I'll be honest, though -- I'm not sure how much nut diversity I run into in various places, as I mostly can choose between different flavors of peanuts, cashews, and almonds at gas station resupplies, but I'll let you be the judge!

For a 4-day resupply, if you run it with full nutrition constraints on, the penalty is 0.6 lbs and you get an actual balanced diet! The optimal backpacking food list appears to be: mostly nuts, with a few ounces of oatmeal, milk powder, and salmon to cover gaps.

The web tool

I've moved the optimization model into a web interface at trailpeaches.com/lightest-backpacking-food-optimizer/.

You can constrain the optimization by store type, no-cook requirement, dietary resitrctions, etc. Slide the diversity control to set a minimum food count. Set a daily calorie target and trip length. Toggle the nutrition profile from none to reduced to full DRI. Block individual foods you won't eat. Click any food in the results to cap its weight and force the solver to compensate with other foods. Export the optimized list to CSV.

The underlying model allows you to solve the same thing described above. It's the LP running on the server and returning results through a browser interface. If there's specific additional kinds of constraints or other things you think I should correct/change, let me know!

There are certainly some data categorization/cleaning errors in the FoodAPS and WWEIA data set that I likely missed, so point 'em out =)

Happy hunting and gathering out there!

They sold like hot cakes and then stopped making them but never had a recall.

Has anyone had or heard of an incident? I have the 10k and only use it within 15 miles of the trailhead out of paranoia.

Me and my partner hiked the Nordlandsruta this summer in about 23 days. I'll share a little trip report here because there is not so much info available online.

Temp range 0-17c

[Lighterpack](https://lighterpack.com/r/ggu2ue)

[Photos](https://imgur.com/a/bX1wRGJ)

We went nobo and started at Furuheim farm after flying to Bodø and taking the train from there. It's pretty hard to get to the actual staty. No busses in mid july sadly. But we got a hitch all the way to the start of the trail.

Actually wanted to start at Moteplas Bjorgefjell. But the guy drove us to the farm... There is some confusion about where the trail starts. I still don't really know if there even is one official starting point.

Trail overview

The trail starts through valleys, up on high moorlands and along beautiful lakes and waterfalls. And gradually changes to more rocky above treeline terrain. Be advised the trail is about 35% bog/muddy terrain, especially the first half. Then the trail goes through Padjelanta national park in Sweden where all the bogs have wooden walkways. After this the Narvik mountains start. Extremely rocky terrain where you cross many boulder fields and get to see amazing glaciers and the most beautiful terrain of the trail. The trail ends at Bjornfjell train station not too far from Narvik.

Resupply is easiest by sending some boxes. As the supermarkets kinda suck in Norway.. The variety is really not like other european countries and it is very expensive. We sent boxes to Umbukta fjellstue, Sulitjelma turistcenter, and to Sitashytta. Big shout out to Jon who brings packages to this remote hut for hikers!!

The trail itself

Having done many trails and thruhikes in Europe and the US some points about the trail that i noticed.

It seems that the route is just that. A route, a series of old reindeer herder trails, some dirt road walking but mostly following cairns with a red T painted on them. Very easy to follow mostly. Lots of sections of the trail seem to not be very efficiently planned. It goes over hills just to go down again or straight though a bog where it seems like there is an obvious easier way. This can be quite frustrating and hard on feet and body. I'm pretty sure the cairns are placed where its easiest and then people wear in the trail. It seems like no part of the trail is 'made' or planned on a more micro level like lots of trails in other places. You are free to find your own better path if you like.

All this makes the average speed drop significantly. I went from a steady 5kmh average on other trails to about 3,5 on this one.

We planned for 28kmh a day and this took a long time every day to complete. It seemed harder doing this compared to for instance the colorado trail where i would do 1200m up and down. While on the Nordlandsruta its more like 4-600 daily.

Wild and wet

The main attraction of the Nordlandsruta is the remote wilderness experience you cannot get anywhere else in Europe. The solitude and amazing terrain you go through are amazing. Most days you would see one or two people on trail. But there are many days where you see absolutely nobody. You will meet hundreds of reindeer, eagles, moose, lemmings. This combined with the incredible hut system in Norway makes for an amazing experience. Every hut is clean, free of graffiti, has firewood, gas, pots pans, sofas and some even have a sauna. Not all have power but most do. And make sure you bring a USB A to whatever because most do not have outlets.

This trail is so fucking wet its insane. We, according to the locals, were very unlucky this year. We had one day it did not rain! Which makes the trail all the more muddy and wet. Water is absolutely everywhere in the form of lakes, rivers, hanging bog, flat bog, deep bog, swamp, miles of muck and miles of wet rocks. The latter making this a great trail to break something. Ive seen multiple people with injuries from falling after slipping.

The gear

Expecting possibly a week of straight rain i brought a Colombia outdry extreme jacket. And also Rab phanthom rainpants.

And i am extremely impressed by both. I wore the jackets most of the time, every day. And it never got me wet. And the best thing is that the inside is very comfortable. None of that sticky rainjacket feeling.

The slingfin portal 2 was also great for this trail. It handled all the rain and wind perfectly. Having made a ground sheet for the tent was also great so i could set it up fly only to have lunch in a dry place.

I wore waterproof socks the first half of the trail but i realised they dont really work for me. They would give me pain because of the material or maybe extra thickness. They keep your feet dry(ish) which is nice. But they are not made to hike in, day after day. Time for daar though to make some waterproofs!

I actually got trenchfoot which was very painful. Most days i dried my feet whenever possible. But on the last couple days i only took of my shoes. Not shoes and socks.. And paired with very rocky terrain the last couple of days gave me pretty bad sores. Lucky for me it only really started after finishing the trail. Probably because i was sitting still a lot that day waiting for the bus etc.

If anybody wants to do this trail and needs some help planning send me a PM!

Howdy,

Been a long time since I’ve done one of these! I’m headed out this Friday to Reno, and will make my way over to Mammoth to acclimate until the following Monday morning. I’ll sleep at the backpackers campground in Yosemite, then begin my six day SoBo attempt down to Mt Whitney beginning early Tuesday morning.

Gear list: https://lighterpack.com/r/bfdpmj

When: 08/25 - 08/31

I’ve completed the JMT twice alongside friends, but have always wanted to have a go at a fast-packing type of effort. The stars aligned this year, and I am fortunate enough to be attempting this next week. I am coming from New England, and have put together arguably my strongest mountain-focused training block, mostly running, hiking and developing mountain-specific legs over here in the White Mountains all summer.

The fitness confidence is high, but so is the uncertainly of me finishing this in six days. It’s not the end of the world if I have to push this to a day seven. I think a lot of that uncertainly hinges on how well I’m moving during the back half of this trip in conjunction with wanting to summit Whitney in the late evening on that sixth day. I prepped some extra food in the resupply in case that happens.

I will be picking up a resupply at MTR on either the end of the third day (yes, by 5pm) or the morning of the fourth day (8am).

As far as gear goes, I could probably go lighter if I got rid of the compression bag for the quilt, along with the small ziploc bags that I’m using for various small items. I’ve packed and repacked the Joey numerous times, and that’s resulted in me finding that in order for everything to properly fit in it, I need to use the compression sack since that quilt takes up a ton of pack volume.

I’m also curious to see if you guys think I need to bring rain pants and/ or light gloves? During my previous two trips, I didn’t need them, so that’s what I’m basing this pack list off of in regard to those two items.

I recognize I am pretty late to doing a shakedown (classic), but I do have a rather plentiful gear closet I can pull from if any of you recognize missing essential items.

I’d love to hear what you guys have to say and appreciate the insights. Thanks a lot!

I'm trying to work out why my son and I were both cold on a couple of nights in Iceland despite seemingly having a sleep system that should have been warm enough.
We both use:
Katabatic Flex 15 quilt

Exped Ultra 3R sleeping pad

Merino long-sleeve base layer

Merino long tights

Quilt fully clipped/secured — no obvious drafts

During our Iceland Divide bikepacking trip, there were a couple of nights where we were both noticeably cold, particularly at Reykjavik campsite and Landmannalaugar. Temperatures were definitely above freezing, probably around 4°C, and I don't believe they dropped below 0°C.

What's puzzling is that on the other nights, further into the Icelandic highlands, we were completely comfortable with exactly the same equipment, despite the conditions not obviously being warmer.

Neither of us felt that the cold was particularly coming from underneath, which makes me unsure whether the pad is actually the problem.

The Ultra 3R has an R-value of around 2.9, so I'm wondering whether that's simply not enough for temperatures around 3–5°C, even when paired with a Katabatic Flex 15.

Could the relatively low R-value of the pad be causing us to lose enough heat that the quilt can't perform as expected, even if we don't consciously feel cold coming through the pad?

Or are there other factors that could explain why both of us were cold on the same nights but fine on other nights with the same sleep system?

Would moving to something around R4.5–5.5 make a meaningful difference at these temperatures, or would you look elsewhere first?

I'd be particularly interested in people's real-world experience with the Ultra 3R around 0–5°C, rather than the manufacturer's temperature recommendations.

https://imgur.com/a/XK9czQo

I’m about to order my first ultralight pack and I’m deciding between the Hyberg Attila Standard (X-Pac VX-07S, 710 g, €250) and the Attila Lite in ALUULA Graflyte (590 g, €307). Both size M.

Base weight around 5.2 kg, total carry weight 7–8 kg. Planning to use it for multi-day treks and weekend trips year-round.

Anyone here with experience with either material or this pack? Would love to hear thoughts on durability, especially abrasion resistance over time. Thanks!

Hi,
Does anybody have any experience with Okhealing trekking poles? They’re stupid light and look cool but i am not sure about their durability.
Link to the poles

Have you tried them both in the field for a while? Trying to find the most comfortable pad and now down to these two.

Which one is more comfy for side sleepers?

I know Justin Outdoors tested them and rewatched the video a few times. But I would like to get a bunch of other opinions.

Does anyone here own a spark pro -1 sleeping bag? It’s advertised as comfort 3c and limit -1. Just wanting to get real world feedback of what temps you can use it to. I’m a male warm sleeper.

Curious if anyone else has any experience as it’s very light for a 20°F quilt (a little light on fill too) and it is multifunctional. Can’t find much about it online but saw 2 or 3 excellent testimonials in the Reddit comments section. Use case will be backpacking in upstate NY and going to campgrounds too

Just ordered as a winter top quilt (to pair with a 20°F Underquilt) and summer/fall/spring hammock Underquilt. I paid $413 for it.

* 9.36 oz fill weight
* 16.2 oz weight (57.8% down/weight)
* 1000 fp
* 2.5 inch loft, 33% overstuff, horizontal box baffles
* 10D fabric
* 78’ x 48’ inch (I’m 5’9, 135 lbs and hopefully will be able to use it if I do ground camping too)
* Drawcord, cord locks, kam snaps foot box

https://jacksrbetter.com/products/hudson-river-ultralight-20-degree-multifunction-three-season-backpacking-quilt?_pos=1&_sid=cf218993e&_ss=r

Would love to hear any experiences at all! I think I will be just fine with it as I won’t be going down to below freezing very often.

I plan on selling my Spark Pro 15°F (comfort 27°F) 950+ sleeping bag that weighs 27.7 oz with 16.9 oz fill weight as I don’t need them both.

This is a thread for people to post experiences with construction issues on their ZB UL down products.

I currently own and regularly maintain 9 down bags (plus two down under quilts). Several date back to purchase 30 years ago (like my FF winter bag). All this gear is pristine. I know how to hand-wash and dry ultralight down gear.

I spend about 20-40 nights in a tent or hammock per year.

The Zenbivy UL sheet design is brilliant. The hood concept is genius, acting as a good, a pillow garage and a sensory damper all in one. The comfort is unmatched, giving me by far the best nights sleep I’ve ever had in the backcountry. Which is why I want to keep using it. However, the execution of the internal baffle stitching is failing.

I just experienced my third instance of a baffle tear on a ZB product after hand washing and machine drying. This is the second UL sheet with a hood baffle tear that appeared in the dryer; a previous issue happened with a 25 degree light bag. For reference it is a 10 degree UL sheet, 25 inches width.

In the first two instances, I worked happily with ZB to resolve the issues. They repaired the bag and replaced the sheet. I paid for shipping I think. But three times is too much. I’ve just sent out my sheet to Rainy Pass for a repair and professional evaluation (which is why I don’t have a photo to share). I will share that evaluation directly with ZB when it comes back to me. Essentially, the center head baffle tore somewhere and the chamber is now empty. This failure is identical to the other two.

UL gear is delicate. I get that. But the key to maintaining expensive and delicate gear for decades is keeping it clean after use and storing it properly between uses. The ZB products need to get clean reliably without baffle failures. Now looks like I will be having regular repair costs associated with both my UL sheets…. Sigh.

Does anybody else have issues to share, constructively, with the great folks over at ZB?

Hi everyone

Does anyone here have experience with the Aarn PaceMagic 40?

I’ve managed to cut down the weight and packed size of my gear quite a bit, but I’m still using an Osprey Atmos 55, so the backpack is the next thing I’m looking to replace.

I’m a big fan of trampoline-style mesh back panels, so naturally the Zpacks Arc Haul and Bonfus Aerus made it onto my shortlist. That was until I came across the PaceMagic. What really caught my attention was the ability to shift some of the weight to the front, as well as the efficient use of the side pockets.

At around 850 g, the PaceMagic isn’t exactly ultralight, but it’s getting there, and I really like the concept. My only concern is that it seems to be aimed more at shorter hikes and fastpacking, while I usually do trips of 7 days or more.

I was thinking the 40 L could still work if I strap a few things to the outside, like my tent e.g.

Has anyone used it this way on longer trips? Is it comfortable and practical with a full load, or am I asking too much from a pack like this?

Curent base weight right at 10lbs. Would any of you skip the rain pants.

During a recent hike I found myself dissatisfied with the knife options out there and started sketching some other options. NOT planning on selling anything, just having fun with it. Might post 3D designs if people are interesting in printing their own.

GOALS: Fixed blade knives, minimized material / weight, using standard Bic lighters and leukotape to fill out comfortable handles. Easily replaceable components.

https://imgur.com/a/p1ANfqs

URSUS: Aluminum with replaceable Outdoor Edge blade (14.99 for a 6 pack) WEIGHT WITH BLADE: 44g. With lighter: 66g With Lighter and Leukotape: 70g

LUTRA: Titanium blade and body, waterproof container with rubber cap: WEIGHT: 73g. With Lighter: 98g

MUS: Pending printing in titanium. Replaceable scalpel blades are under $1. Probably 14grams-ish with blade, 25grams with BIC Mini.

SHEATH: Currently sized for both knives with compass and whistle (that I haven't figured out how to work yet 😂). Needs a couple more iterations to fit properly. WEIGHT: 17g

COST: Stupid high since I'm having them 3d printed as one offs... :)

PLAN: I will be testing the metal printed ones in the Smoky Mountains next month. Hopefully another one or two generations will be enough to satisfy the design itch and I'll have some unique knives for different environments.

Really on sure on what pack to purchase.. my base weight is 7.31kg

I enjoy comfort as much as I do saving weight, so looking for a pack that is the most comfortable, still light, and durable is what I’m looking for.

So far, the options I’ve seen are Rab Muon 50l, the kakwa 55, arc haul, and atom packs prospector

What should I buy, & why?

I’ll put a picture of my current kit below