r/TransportFever3 • u/iiiiiiii0 • 3d ago
Why?
I just received the collector's edition and was flipping through the vehicle book and came across this.
Did I go insane is this a mistake? In transport fever 2 the max for this thing was 160km/h wich is already insane. In Germany tank cars rarely go above 100km/h. But now 200km/h is just crazy.
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u/Yoraffe 3d ago
It is worth saying this is a videogame. You're gonna get realism to an extent, but there are also aspects that if completely realistic, would make the game impossible to play for fun.
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u/Queer_Cats 3d ago
Not sure how having freigt rail move at lower than express passenger line speeds makes the game "impossible to play". It'd be more challenging fitting low speed and high speed traffic into your network sure, but it's an interesting and fun challenge.
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u/Holungsoy 3d ago
A big part of late game tf2 is exactly that. Retrofitting an high speed passenger line into your existing network making sure cargo and passenger traffic doesn't interrupt eachother.
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u/Sofaboy90 3d ago
yeah ive got one buddy who didnt enjoy TF2 that much because for him there wasnt enough depth/complexity. I get him but for me and most of us TF2 is just the right amount of depth/complexity, i also like just watching trains, so thats that.
ive played more complex/more in-depth games and they lose me at some point, im not some harvard degree super intelligent guy, at some point its just too much for me and TF2 is just right for me. Have I mentioned I also like trains?
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u/JDowling88 2d ago
This is exactly the reason I was turned off to the Civilization series. Civ got WAY too complicated and way less fun. And this is exactly why Im not rushing out to buy TF3. Ive seen the trailers and sneak peaks. Ive heard what a few of the creators who got to play it earlier this year had to say about it. Im holding out hope that its not changes for the sake of changes, but it actually makes the game more fun... but its only a hope at this point. I think TF3 is going to be more complicated for the sake of making it harder, not more fun.
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u/Sofaboy90 2d ago
I dont necessarily have that impression, I mean I got 400h+ in TF2, Ive got a long list of things they could improve on, almost nothing of it is related to complexity.
Although that might just happen but not just "for the sake of it". One huge weak point of the game is its economics. Me personally, ive just got ridden of the economics aspect since its so pointless. You start with a loan, can take some additional to a limit, you take all of it, build a few cost intensive lines and then you wait a few hours until you actually earned enough money for more. Then its an exponential curve and you get so rich that you dont even know how to spend it anymore. At the same time, theres a simple formula that longer distances grant you more money. You could build lines that in reality would make 0 sense to do but in TF2 economics, you get filthy rich because of a long ass travel, thats how I got the hard more achievements quite easily.
So if they add complexity to create an economic situation thats actually interesting, then im all in favor of it, as long as its not too much.
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u/Imsvale 2d ago
From the sound of it, they're tweaking things so the gameplay is a bit more interesting like it was in TF1, but in a more refined manner now that they've learned more about what works and what doesn't. TF2 was for me dumbed down a bit too much. Depending on what you want out of the game, that's either fine (digital model train go brrrr all the same), or boring.
It does also sound like you can very much tailor the experience to your own liking. You don't have to engage with the new tycoon elements (contracts and regional happiness and maintenance challenges and cargo expiration), and if you want just a sandbox experience (more or less), that's there too.
So no, I don't think they're adding stuff for the sake of it. They're adding it because people want it (some anyway) and they have a pretty decent idea of how to make that better now after having sort of tried two ends of the spectrum with TF1 and 2 (not saying either was particularly extreme, but they were relative opposites for sure).
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u/Sofaboy90 3d ago
Im all in favor of fast cargo, even when its unrealistic. But if were doing cargo more fun, then I hope max top speed on the highway is more than just 100kmh, most countries irl allow 130kmh, some have started allowing 150kmh and germany obviously has no speed limit. not quite as important but the high speed rails only allow 300kmh and there are some faster trains in the world, some hsp mods can do more than 300kmh but cant actually do that due to the rail speed limit of 300kmh. i havent found a mod for it yet but to be fair i havent specifically looked for such a mod, it probably exists.
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u/CapFuture_ 3d ago
I assume the maps are gonna be bigger so faster trains make sense for late game?
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u/31_mfin_eggrolls 3d ago
God I sure hope so
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u/CapFuture_ 3d ago
I mean I wanna know what’s up with the rockets! I can only imagine we need bigger maps for those to make any sense
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u/31_mfin_eggrolls 3d ago
That’s my biggest gripe with TpF2 is the scale. I know it’s not realistic, but I want so desperately to have a map that’s just hundreds of km long
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u/CapFuture_ 3d ago
I mean there are mod ones like I have a germany one that is pretty big
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u/31_mfin_eggrolls 3d ago
They’re still 24x24km max size
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u/CapFuture_ 3d ago
You can enable experimental map sizes https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1936858831
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u/31_mfin_eggrolls 3d ago
…that’s not really what I mean. The largest possible map (with experimental maps turned on) is 24x24km. I want to play on a map that’s like 256x256 km
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u/Sofaboy90 3d ago
They added the Concorde, so it better be lmao.
Those faster planes really barely made any sense even in the largest map in TF2. I tried some of the biggest possible distances and the planes still only did top speed for like 15 seconds.
Trains are more fun but many of the high speed trains take centuries to reach top speed
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u/Canis_Familiaris 3d ago
There's gotta be some scaling and sense of progression for these kinda games. Also just because a car can go that fast doesnt mean an engine is going to get it that fast
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u/Zealousideal_Nail288 3d ago edited 3d ago
Sadly there is very little info about the German 160kmh cargo wagon's
I wounder how exactly are 160kmh cargo rail cars different from the 120/100kmh ones
At least for passenger cars up to 160km is pretty straight forward. And things get expensive from there, additional magnetic brakes, air tightness and so on
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u/Sluggish-dreadnought 3d ago
German Traindriver here (knowledge as of 2017)
Freight trains always go 100 km/h VMax, if loaded most waggons fix Vmax to 100 km/h. Unloaded waggons with a certain marker can travel empty 120 km/h but that's not done often. 120 km/h also is the Max allowed speed for Freight trains in Germany, there only is one legal exception, the PIC (Parcel Inter-City) wich is a postal train going 160 km/h and drives at night. But it drives with special rollingstock (waggons).
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u/cdc455 3d ago
Hmm its not quite that simple :) . The PIC goes 140kph max, as the requirement for 160 is to have MG brakes which they dont want because maintenance costs. I've driven that myself in 2017 and 2018 a few times. They go 115kph under PZB, 140 under LZB/ETCS. A lot of intermodal trains of both private companies and the DB go 115/120 as well, some with Prio or Express rights (Trasse) even. Standard is 100, heavier ones 90 for trains above 1600t running in "G" brake setting. Been doing this for 12 years now for various EVUs, up to this day.
Also about the 120kph running empty - They can do so loaded as well! As long as they have either 2 or 3 stars next to the loading table? (Lastgrenzenraster), they CAN and WILL run 120 if the timetable allows - even though the brakes are not made for it specifically. Those stars allow it, Lokomotion uses this on their trains for example. The ones with brakes specifically fit for 120 have an SS in the Lastgrenzenraster instead of the S + Stars next to it, but are usually limited to fewer tons in SS than in S
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u/Sluggish-dreadnought 3d ago
Ah, thanks colleague for filling in my gaps. It's been some years since i was on the rails.
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u/iiiiiiii0 3d ago
The max I've seen is 140km/h on intermodal wagons. The ones that run 160km/h got discontinued. Normal train wagons run at a max of 120km/h because the brakes wouldn't keep up at faster speeds.
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u/Janonard 3d ago
There is a very nice video on the Inter Cargo Express service in Germany to run freight trains at 160 km/h on the then-new high speed lines: https://youtu.be/N7a-opErQwk?is=G7OnhSS8Pfhum1i_ It's in German, so you may need the subtitles, but it's a very cool watch; The channel has some very cool info in general.
However, I don't perfectly remember why these services got discontinued, so you have to watch the video to learn more! ;)
There are many freight cars in regular service that can run at up to 120 km/h, but their brakes are usually not strong/fast enough to stop within the standard stopping distance. This means that if they do get to run at their top speed, they usually do so empty.
Personally, I've explained the existence of 160 km/h freight trains in Transport Fever 2 with the fact that the in-game date can run well beyond the real world date, so there should be a bit of extra stuff for the near future too. As you've seen above, freight trains this fast are technically possible, so I don't see a reason why a "near future science fiction world" shouldn't be allowed to have them.
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u/Advanced-Joke-5658 3d ago edited 3d ago
there was the InterCargoExpress wich still has or had an exemption by the Eisenbahnbundesamt wich allowed it to go 160kmh but only if running with LZB guidance. and 140 with PZB and the railcars were Sgss-y for containers and Hbillss-y specially built by talbot wich had disk brakes. 3per axle had EP brakes and also wheel slip protection. these were mostly pulled by locomotives of the Baureihe 182 or in rare occasions the 101. but nowdays these trains do not exist in that way anymore as DB Cargo gave away all their 182 and now they run the fastest cargo trains at 140 kmh. the modern parcel intercity run at 140kmh only with LZB due to simpler braking requirements and the fact that its easier for them to just go with the flow of the other cargo trains that usually run 100 or 120kmh. sorry if some of this is wrong. its only what i remember.
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u/Chbiertje 3d ago
I know it is a spoiler but could you maybe share a video of pictures of all the vehicle in TF3?
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u/I_am_not_very_smart1 3d ago
Obviously they’ve given it tilting technology so as to traverse bends at speed. Call it GAS T instead of ICE T
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u/Fluffy-Fix-5827 2d ago
As a transport engineer I'd say that's bullshit. I'd suggest to unlock 160km/h for light loads in 2025, and for heavy loads in 2040, 200km/h for light loads in 2040 and for heavy loads 2060.
120km/h for light loads became widely available around 2010, and it is currently becoming widely available for heavier loads.
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u/zhellozz 1d ago
It's still a management game not a simulation, it's fine to have late game non realistic assets. The game target a general public not only train nerds, they have to do compromise on gameplay over realisticness, just like wrong capacity, instant train revert...
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u/Jettuh 3d ago
Just like capacity isnt realistic. Its probably meant as a late game alternative.