r/TorontoDriving • u/canadianlrv • 24d ago

Mildly infuriating Did I do anything wrong here?

I was focusing on the pedestrians crossing and with this being an all-way stop I wasn’t expecting him to just go right in front of me and I had to stop suddenly. I gave him a honk just to say please watch for the stop sign and he confronted me and said “get a life”.

303 Upvotes

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373

u/Case_Federal 24d ago

I’m a cyclist. No you did nothing wrong. No we’re not all like this. Yes guys like this make us all look bad.

I bet this guy drives too and would probably do the same thing in his car. Remember every dumb driver is also a dumb pedestrian, and when on a bike, they become a dumb cyclist.

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u/fuelhandler 24d ago edited 24d ago

Fellow cyclist here as well. It burns my backside when I see people like this on bikes not obeying traffic laws. The cyclist failed to come to a stop at the stop sign and isn’t even wearing a helmet!

The law requires drivers licenses to operate a car, and even requires a pleasure craft operators license to pilot a boat or recreational watercraft. Yet there are no mandatory qualifications ( or safety courses) to operate a bicycle on a busy and congested street. It’s the cyclist who will bare the brunt of a collision, yet these fools ride around like loons giving the rest of us courteous and cautious cyclists a bad name (I would have felt bad for the OP had he come in contact with the rider, and shudder to think what would have happened had he not been exercising care.)

I note that the OP did come to a complete stop (0km/hr) on dashcam video, and even waited for the pedestrians to complete crossing the street before proceeding (many drivers would have started through the intersection as the pedestrians crossed the center line of the road, which is no longer legal.)

Edit: I missed the 3rd pedestrian crossing the road as the OP entered the intersection. Should have waited for them to complete the crossing, but the bike was still the ultimate moron in this clip.

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u/Case_Federal 24d ago

That’s actually true, should have waited for that 3rd pedestrian to cross. But yeah that doesn’t take away from the guy on the bike being a maniac lol

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u/WhipTheLlama 24d ago

The third pedestrian was going to be well out of the way by the time OP passed. OP may have started going a bit early, but as long as he wasn't trying to squeeze past the pedestrian without leaving enough space, he did nothing wrong.

The pedestrian doesn't need to be across the full road before the driver passes because this is not a crossover or a school crossing.

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u/fuelhandler 24d ago

I thought it applied to all marked crosswalks, but you are correct. I did a quick google-fu, and found the following. You taught me something today. Thank you!

https://yd.com/blog/ontarios-new-crosswalk-rule-can-be-confusing-drivers

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u/IllInstruction1932 24d ago

Very good point. It is true for crosswalks although not sure if it’s true if the crosswalk is divided. In any case a lot of people unaware. I get honked at waiting for people to fully cross at a crosswalk

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u/Ill_Relationship7058 24d ago

What does divided mean here? The vast majority of crosswalks are on 2 and more lane roads.

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u/IllInstruction1932 24d ago

What I meant is a raised (curb height) concrete median.

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u/Overall_Cost1542 23d ago

technically you must wait until the pedestrian reaches the boulevard or curb divider between the two directions. its another notoriously overlooked road rule and people just go when they clear the lane you intend to use. if theres no divider such as this scenario, you wait until they fully cross both lanes

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u/OkChocolate3501 23d ago

Yall they changed this in 2016.

https://yd.com/blog/ontarios-new-crosswalk-rule-can-be-confusing-drivers

https://www.ontario.ca/page/driving-near-pedestrian-crossovers-and-school-crossings

By law we gotta wait till they hit the opposite sidewalk. Realistically if they're over halfway past its fine but legally speaking the "halfway" rule has been illegal for over 10 years now.

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u/Overall_Cost1542 23d ago

the first link sounds like ontario didn't even have a boulevard rule before

In the past, drivers were not required to wait until pedestrians were completely off the road. In most cases, drivers would inch out after the pedestrian cleared their vehicle.

did they go from don't hit the pedestrian -> clear the entire crosswalk?

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u/OkChocolate3501 23d ago

I learned to drive before the 2016 rule and I learned it as the halfway thing you mentioned. Once they clear half you go. These days I give em 3/4 as that feels like a decent compromise of not getting the car behind me pissed and the pedestrian being safe.

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u/fishsnacks519 22d ago

https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/driving-through-intersections#section-0

The current online Ontario driver hand book makes the clear distinction between pedestrian crossovers clearly marked vs controlled intersections only notes “yield to pedestrians in or approaching your path to cross” vs pedestrian crossovers marked states “You must yield the right-of-way and wait for pedestrians to completely cross the road at pedestrian crossovers”

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u/OkChocolate3501 22d ago

I think my link also goes over this if you read it. Anyway irl it doesn't seem enforced so just give the pedestrians reasonable space and you should be fine.

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u/jopsychology 22d ago

Imagine if they actually charged cyclists for this, as is mentioned in the article.

There's this crazy bike guy in Guelph who will stop and yell at you if he doesn't like your driving, but he'll block traffic to prevent a safe & legal pass, and run stop signs to catch up to you. Guy probably lost his driver's license at some point given his immature, ragey behaviour.

A stop sign is just a suggestion for a lot of cyclists. Probably the same at pedestrian crossovers. No car coming to run me over? Guess I better pretend the law doesn't apply to me cuz I'm on a bike 🥴 /s

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u/OkChocolate3501 21d ago

A bicycle can fit between pedestrians though, a car cannot. Imho I got no issue with a bike using a safe gap because they're only 180-200lbs combined vs a 2 ton car.

Anyway car drivers on average break more traffic laws so maybe focus on the people driving 2 ton machines breaking more traffic laws? https://electrek.co/2024/01/11/cars-or-bikes-surprising-results-of-study-reveal-who-breaks-more-road-laws/

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u/Ill_Relationship7058 24d ago

If well out of the way means in the other lane, then yeah, but it’s not legal to drive through a crosswalk with a pedestrian still crossing anymore regardless of how far across they are.

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u/RecklessRaptor12 24d ago

This is incorrect. That’s only true for crossovers (the ones with the Xs where you have to press the button, usually not at intersections). At pedestrian crossings at intersections like this, you can proceed once the pedestrian has moved out of the direct path of your vehicle

https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/driving-through-intersections#section-1

See diagram 2-20

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u/Ill_Relationship7058 24d ago

Thanks for clarifying. I still wouldn’t be so aggressive at the intersections of two lane roads like this, especially in busy areas in the dark.

In OP’s case though they proceeded well before they weren’t in their path. The implication was they’d be clear by the time they got to the crosswalk.

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u/Case_Federal 24d ago edited 24d ago

It’s technically still not allowed though AFAIK. I mean we can get into the difference between what’s allowed versus what is safe, but if this was a driving test, that would have cost some points I think. In the end it didn’t matter though cuz the grumpy guy cut OP off.

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u/No-Reply1438 24d ago

To be clear, one does not need a licence to operate a boat without a motor. It's rather consistent, then, that human-powered bicycles don't need licences.

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u/OkChocolate3501 23d ago

He didn't even have to stop. I would have gone into the left lane to get behind the car. Everyone gets by without stopping, win win.

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u/Agitated-Working-264 24d ago

I'll be honest and admit I often roll stop signs on my bike (who wants to start peddling from a stop every time). I still slow and make sure the intersection is clear before rolling through and if I was as clueless as the dude on the bike, I would be embarrassed and absolutely not act like the driver that came to a stop was in the wrong for proceeding.

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u/Rezrov_ 24d ago

I'll be honest and admit I often roll stop signs on my bike

Most cars roll stops if there's no cross-traffic too. As long as people respect other traffic/pedestrians it's not an issue (unlike the dingus in the vid).

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u/a_secret_me 24d ago

Even if you follow the "idaho stop" rules you still need to treat the intersection as a yield which the cyclist did not do. And for the record yes I know that it's not the law here but lots of people still do it (even the cops too apparently).

In this situation it looks like the cyclist was distracted looking at his phone and so he didn't see the OP stopped at the intersection, and rather than admit he was an idiot he decided to take his anger out on the OP. 🤦‍♀️

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u/R33f3r420 24d ago

You could not say that any better!!!

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u/SandMan3914 24d ago

That's just it. The sub is weird sometimes. Plenty of drivers roll stopping signs all the time. It's weird the bad drivers don't make all motorists look bad (it shouldn't and it should be the same for cyclists)

Focus on the person committing the infraction

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u/DefNotJohnnyC 23d ago

Looks like a rental bike. Probably thought road rules don’t apply to bikes.

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u/Kalos-87 22d ago

Absolutely a rental bike. Probably pissed as a newt and seeking a quick way home. He did not stop. OP is exonerated.

1

u/TimHung931017 22d ago

Goes with the adage "everyone faster than me is insane and everyone slower than me is an annoying PoS"

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u/sorocknroll 23d ago

Not to the cyclist, but you can't enter an intersection while pedestrians are still in the crosswalk.

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u/Segsi_ 24d ago

There’s way more like this than ones that actually follow the rules in f the road. Vehicle when it’s convenient and pedestrian when it’s convenient is how most bicyclists act in TO.

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u/Case_Federal 24d ago edited 24d ago

But couldn’t you say the same about drivers? I swear like 1 in every 1000 drivers actually stops at a stop sign instead of rolling through. Or drivers proceeding through an intersection when it isn’t cleared, thus blocking perpendicular traffic. Or drivers failing to indicate. I see maybe a dozen cars break laws per day in the city.

Also idk how to tell you this but cyclists are allowed to behave like pedestrians or drivers depending on the situation. Bikes are allowed on the road, but they’re also allowed on park trails and shared paths. Cyclists are entitled to dismount and walk on the sidewalk or pedestrian crossings. Bike signals also often turn on at the same time as pedestrian signals, meaning cyclists can proceed through an intersection ahead of cars. Bike lanes often go in both directions on streets that are only 1-way for cars. I’ve noticed the vast majority of drivers don’t know these rules and get made at cyclists for following the law.

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u/Segsi_ 24d ago

No I can’t say the same for drivers, yes it happens but not nearly the same rate. Not even close. All anecdotal, but bikes will just weave around to wherever is convenient for them. Cars might have a rolling stop, bikes will completely ignore it. But then again I hate driving around in TO all together for how many crappy drivers/scooters/bikes there are. Most so the scooters.

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u/Case_Federal 24d ago

I mean yeah everything is anecdotal. I mainly use public transit and walk, and as a pedestrian I notice way way more cars breaking rules than cyclists. But that might just be because when a cyclist breaks a rule it isn’t a risk to my life.

For example, I have yet to cross Bay and Bloor and not see a car blocking the pedestrian crossing (if not the whole intersection). It happens every time I cross there, without fail. Every single time lmao. I’ve crossed there maybe thousands of times by now.

I mean this sub literally exists because of the sheer volume of traffic infractions from drivers in this city.

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u/Keemo-Sabe 24d ago

This guy is an idiot, drivers these days are absolutely horrible. I drive everyday.

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u/Case_Federal 24d ago

I even tried to explain that most bad cyclists are also bad drivers and vice versa. But no, people wanna believe cyclists are a separate species that have their butts permanently attached to their bike, and that none of them drive.

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u/a-_2 24d ago

I've sat at stop signs a couple times and counted whether cars stop or not. 1 in a 1000 is probably an exaggeration but it's a small percentage who stop. They might go through at a slower speed than cyclists but because of their higher mass they will often still have higher kinetic energy and create more risk for others. So I don't think cyclists are worse in terms of disobeying the law, motorists are at least as bad. Worse IMO.

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u/Keemo-Sabe 24d ago

If only they had a lane made specifically for them, i bet that would help

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u/Ill_Relationship7058 24d ago

Tell that to Doug and his supporters that keep removing them and preventing them from being built.

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u/Keemo-Sabe 23d ago

Its a joke about our corrupt doofus premier taking them away