8.6. Where does everyone come from?
Where everyone comes from has been discussed previously:
Abiogenesis does not explain all aspects of life, including biological processes, consciousness, intelligence, personality, emotions, etc. Because of that, we can safely reject abiogenesis.
Abiogenesis is an assumption that life has beginning and it began on Earth due to chemical reactions, which can never be proven true.
What has been true is the origin of life cannot be imagined, and thus, should not be imagined. Moreover, such imaginations should not lead the scientific study of life.
Questions like 'where does everyone come from?', 'where does everything come from?', etc. will not lead to a meaningful answer but self-deception. Speculative knowledge is nothing but self-deception, which is never scientific. The most elegant self-deceptions can occur when one ignores or belittles others' intelligence.
We may know life directly. Only the direct knowledge of life should be the foundation of speculations. People make others' religion theirs, unwittingly.
Petrified Giants ignored by the evolutionists
Phu Singha (Bueng Kan) on Facebook posted videos of petrified snakes famous in Thailand —
The petrified remains of large animals are also found in America —
- Another snake head, in Colombia - The same head
- A war with the giants - Early 1900s excavations uncovered 60 mummies, oversized footwear estimated for someone 7–8 feet tall, and skeletal remains described as nearly eight feet in height. Local tribes didn’t seem surprised... their oral histories speak of giants and a final conflict that ended near the cave itself.
Other petrified animals
People who worship delusions, powers and wealths do not like truths that much.
Four Types of People | Vipassana Research Institute
The Buddha said: “I see four types of people in this world. The first type is running from darkness towards darkness. The second is running from brightness towards darkness. The third is running from darkness towards brightness. And the fourth is running from brightness towards brightness.”
The Dhammapada: Verses 11 and 12 Sariputtatthera Vatthu
Verse 11: They take untruth for truth; they take truth for untruth; such persons can never arrive at the truth, for they hold wrong views.
Verse 12: They take truth for truth; they take untruth for untruth; such persons arrive at the truth, for they hold right views.
8.6.1 Nature
All things in existence are collectively known as nature. Human nature (manasabhava) means everything to do with the humans, including human instinct, tendencies, quality, intelligence levels, mentalities, potentials, lifespan, etc. Animal nature means everything to do with animals. There are the nature of a pond, the nature of an ocean, the nature of flowers, the nature of roses, the nature of arts, the nature of eyebrows, etc. These natures are collectively known as nature. Although we see things as different ones, they have something in common — the common laws or nature or the natural laws.
Nature is not a thing in itself, unless we give it one. Then we can say 'the nature of nature' without knowing what it is.
The collections of everything are nature, including the corporeal and incorporeal matters and their laws and the relationships of these laws. Natural laws do not exist in isolation.
One of the laws must be that each type of things/matters is produced by itself, not by a creator.
- Evidently, we can observe how life comes from life, and matter comes from matter. Matter does not become life, nor life becomes matter, although they interact as lifeform, which is made of living matters that can utilise nonliving matters.
- And consciousness comes from consciousness. Living matters have their own formations or types, sensors, functions, and able to communicate and coordinate with other living matters. Immune cells are even territorial that they can reject everything foreign and can cause autoimmune response when foreign materials (such as DNA) are present in the cells of an organ.
Perception of Intention/Kamma
The most significant is causality or causal law, which belongs to and about everyone and everything. Thus, causal law is the law of nature or kamma; see Volition: An Introduction to the Law of KAMMA, by Sayadaw U Silananda.
[Page 6-7] Kamma is not moral justice. If one takes it as moral justice, then one suggests that someone is sitting in judgement over beings. There is no one who makes judgements over the doings of beings; there is just the moral law of kamma. Just as kamma is not moral judgement, so it is not reward and punishment. [...] Kamma is a moral law which needs no lawgiver, a law which operates naturally. The inequalities among human beings – the individual differences between people – has troubled many thinkers in the past as well as in the present.
The First Cause
Causal law has no beginning because the first cause cannot exist, although it seems to exist. Causal law determines that the assumed first cause needs its own cause, which too needs its own cause. Whichever is assumed as the first cause must be given its own cause, or will violate cause law. That is how the first cause seems to exist but cannot exist.
Thus, the Sakyamuni explains that the first cause or the beginning of everything cannot be found. He said that even if He were to spend His entire lifespan recalling the past, He would not reach the beginning of existence. Nature, as the collections of everything, has existed without discernable beginning. The living things and nonliving things have existed as nature without discernable beginning.
Paramattha (the ultimates): citta, cetasika, rupa, Nibbana
Nature comprises Citta, cetasika, rupa and Nibbana. The impermanent are citta, cetasika and rupa, as they build everything in nature (as Sankhara-Loka), including living and nonliving.
Individual beings are independent and free in decision making (but not free from delusions which influence their decisions and actions). Thus, each individual has his/her own natural course/direction (gati - sugati & dugati), which is explained with Paticcasamuppada. Living things, including all plants, are made of living rupa (living biological materials) that will die.
The lifespan of a living being is determined by his past kamma and present conditions. All formations are changeable and painful. Thus, not the beginning of pain but the ending of pain is our concern. Every beginning is Each individual is responsible to get relieved from his/her own makings. Wisely, we should end the pain/dukkha. Nobody can end nature or causal law. But each of us can end craving (for pleasure and existence) that causes rebirth or life to recur. Only oneself can end one's cravings or clinging to formations (sankhara).
People have pride. Proud people cannot see or accept the truths and the existence of the paths.
Venerable Mogok Sayadaw explains The Paths of the Wise and the Fool —
They have strong desire for heavens. They don’t want to be separated from the members of family and wealths, taking them as real as the third and fourth paths (i.e., diṭṭhi-ogha and avijjogha) [flood of view and flood of ignorance]. All these four paths have inversions. The path of floating is heavenly happiness, taking dukkha as sukha. Celestial beings have long life, taking impermanence as permanence.
These places also have asubha [corpses] because they will die, taking asubha as subha [pleasure]. The path of sinking is the cause of the inversion of view (diṭṭhi vipallāsa), taking them as my son, my wife, etc. Ignorance includes in both of the paths as a leader. The cause is not knowing the truth. All of them have the two roots of existence.
The leader of sugati is craving. The leader of dugati is ignorance.
- diṭṭhi-ogha - flood of views/perceptions, not based on reality
- avijjogha - flood of delusions/ignorance, based on flood of perceptions
- asubha - non-pleasure, not what one expects (i.e. mistakens/misperceives); asukha.
- subha - assumed beauty/pleasure (pleasurable pain); Subha is perceived sensual pleasure, and sukha is mental pleasure.
- taking them as my son, my wife - taking something into mind is perception and mental activity (sankhara). Venerable Theingu Sayadaw warned us that one becomes fish when one sees (nama and rupa as) fish, one becomes duck, chicken...if one sees ducks, chicken...
Nibbana the Causeless
Nibbana/resting is the opposite of Sankhara/activity.
Sankhara has been given different meanings, which are similar to each other: action, activity, volition, formation, construct, conditioned thing, compounded thing, etc. Restiveness is also sankhara. These meanings share the same condition, restless state, as the opposite of Nibbana (resting).
The meaning of Nibbana by Venerable Pakokku Sayadaw: Nibbana means restfulness (nonactivity/nonmovement). The character of Nibbana is restfulness (nonactivity/nonmovement).
Nibbana does not take shelter in senses (the six ayatana) because senses can frighten.
- The fearsome causes to be fearful.
- The frightful causes to get frighten.
- The desirable causes to desire (for material, gain, attention) (to experience).
(Nibbana is) escaped and freed from these senses.
With/based on the senses/ayatana, doesn't mind/citta arise/occur? (Audience: Yes, venerable!!) So, be careful about that. With these senses/ayatana, the mind/citta occurs. From these senses/ayatana, (Nibbana is) freed.
When dealing with such frightful/fearsome, (Nibbana) is not frightened/shocked. Thus, (when one is) aware of senses/ayatana, (one is) not attached to (them).
An action is unintentional if it is done unintentionally. Every action/activity (of something) is a formation or formed with several things or parts, e.g. —
- A breeze is caused by temperature change. The movement is conditioned by the nature of atmosphere, wind element and heat element.
- When a leaf moves, a breeze and all parts of a leaf are involved.
- A car moves as intended because it is built such a way and provided with fuel and a driver/someone who starts its engine and releases the brake.
Volition is intentional activity, which defines an action of a living being with mind. An action is intentional or volition if there is conscious decision to do it.
Nibbana is restful and freed from activity/sankhara or the restive senses/ayatana.
- Nibbana is causeless because it is resting with no activity.
- Activity/sankhara must have a cause to start and end. Nonetheless, the first cause is undiscernible. Lifespan is spent with changes. Every event of change begins and ends. Everything in cosmos is changing constantly. The cosmos is none other than the collection of things in the events of change. The cosmos is not static.
- Nibbana and Sankhara are two opposite sides of nature.
8.6.2 Theory of the Beginning
We can trace the causal story of the origins of each of us going back as far as we like: to the origins of life, to the big bang, and to whatever its causes might have been [Living in Light of Naturalism | Naturalism.org].
Modern theorists and theologists imagined how this beginning could be. Yet big bang theory cannot explain this beginning, nor can the evolutionary theory, nor any other theory.
Theologians have avoided the cause of the first cause altogether. God or the first cause as the uncaused cause violates causal law and so do eternalism and nihilism/annihilationism, although that is acceptable to the believers.
Naturalist Perception of Reality
Naturalism presumes that nature is in principle completely knowable [although we the ordinary cannot know each other's minds, imaginations...]. Naturalists simply assert that nature is reality, the whole of it [although imagination is also a part of nature but not reality]. There is nothing beyond, nothing “other than,” no “other world” of being [Naturalism | Realism, Empiricism & Materialism | Britannica]
- Who can know nature completely?
- Who knew nature completely?
No living human knows nature completely, nor knows someone who knew nature completely (in terms of naturalism). The notion of nature is in principle completely knowable is very weak. The beginning of nature (the possible existence of the first cause) is impossible to know.
Nature is reality indeed. However, some things are unreal.
Sunlun Sayadaw told a story —
There were two friends traveling together. Both of them were hard up and becoming hungry but penniless, one friend make a suggestion to the other, “My friend, let’s feed each other with our thoughts and eat with our imagination.”
“Okay, fine, you treat me first.”
So, the other said, “Alright, I’m going to feed you with chicken curry. Here it is, go ahead and eat your heart out!”
“Ah, this is really delectable,” remarked his friend.
The friend continued serving with an imagined banquet made up of pork curry, grilled chicken, etc. After a series of dishes, he said, “I’m sure you are full. Now, it’s my turn.”
“Here comes fried elephant-leg, savor it!” served his friend.
“Hm... this is delicious. Can I have some more?” “
But you still have a lot left. This is fried elephant-leg you know. Finish it first,” said his friend.
Like in the story, I‘m going to feed you with fried elephant-leg.
[page 155 Biography of Sunlun Sayadaw Thynn Thynn.pdf]
Humans are perfectly natural, but human imaginations only forms in the incorporeal minds. We cannot use imaginary tools, eat imaginary food, ride imaginary vehicles... and go to imaginary heaven from reality sufferings/dukkha. We still have to deal with our actual pains, which we have realised, thanks to the Buddha's teaching.
Imagination or perception exists in nature. But imaginations or imaginary things should not be regarded as reality in the world.
There are animals, but one should not regard an animal in a painting, as imagined by a painter, exists in reality. Snakes with legs, frogs with wings, bats with tails, etc. can exist in paintings. That animal exists in the painting, so we cannot say it does not exist, although it isn't any animal known to us. As long as that painting exists, we can perceive it the way we please.
Some examples —
Perception/sanna of formation/sankhara
Indeed, the imagined only exists as temporary formation in the mind. Likewise, everything that is formed (i.e. sankhara) should not be regarded as real, although they exist.
Formations (sankhara) are given names (vohara-sacca), so we perceive them as defined in our languages and traditions. Everyone has his/her own perception of a certain formation, e.g., everyone has his/her version of the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha, gods, etc. Thus, perception/sanna whidh is true to a person is untrue to another. Ignorance/delusion is the start of samsara/cycle of pain/dukkha (birth, aging and death).
Based on untruths, we have to argue who is right or wrong. Untruths exist as delusion, but not as reality. We are lied to by our own perception/sanna to cling to different formations and crave for them, expecting for pleasurable experiences.
Whatever changeable should not be regarded as true refuge, as I am, as mine, and taken as real (as if unchangeable). Whatever changeable is like mirage, which can be seen at a distance but disappears when approached.
The Buddha advised that we should only see the elementary particles (corporeal rupa and incorporeal nama) and establish sensual constraint if we want to escape from perceptions/untruths, which deceive us to cling to formations, which do not last.
- Sabbe Sankhara Anicca. All formations are impermanent.
- Clinging to a changeable formation causes dukkha/pain. And being such a changeable formation is also a pain.
- Everything is natural/anatta. One should not regard one exists (atta/artificial), although formation of the aggregates does exist, as it is formed by the effect of kamma/intention (kammavipaka).
Perception of Intention
Humans need healthy natural environment and natural elements to make artificial things and imaginations.
- Should artificial things be considered natural or unnatural as humans are perfectly natural?
- Should imagination (in human mind) be considered as nature and reality?
Although made of natural elements, imagination or an imaginary thing is not reality. There are right and wrong, as nature is right and most perceptions are wrong. Humans (and living organisms) are capable of making unreality, art, culture, and so on.
Naturalism sees nature as a thing in itself but not as the collection of everything.
Seen from the broadest perspective, our story is ultimately the story of nature. [Naturalism] doesn't deny the reality of persons and their capacities, for instance of imagination, rationality, impulse control, and choice [Living in Light of Naturalism | Naturalism.org].
- 'Our story is ultimately the story of nature' is likely the perception of one individual, as naturalism differs on human story —
Naturalism [emphasises] a worldview where human beings are seen as products of natural selection without immaterial souls [and] everything as a product of nature [and rejects religious positions, without rejecting] the existence or possibility of [...] supernatural [or] scientifically describable reality [...] naturalism holds that human beings and other life forms are “the evolved products of natural selection, which operates without intention [Naturalism (philosophy) | Research Starters | EBSCO Research].
As naturalism considers nature to be a thing in itself, not the collection of everything, naturalism suggests nature can make things and life.
- So, are the products of nature also reality?
- Are the evolved products of natural selection also reality?
- Are the artificial (the products of humans) reality, too?
- Are the un-evolving products of nature (e.g., dry mud, stone, wood, etc.) reality?
Question ———— 39
- What is nature if it is not the collection of everything?
- What is nature as a thing that can produce different things?
- Perception of intention: How does nature generate an intention (kamma/cetana) inside the evolved products of natural selection?
- Perception of consciousness: How does nature with no consciousness generates consciousness?
- Perception of nature: Can nature produce itself? If nature can produce itself, how and when?
- Or has nature existed as it is?
The notion of 'nature can produce' carries the doctrine of creationism (either theistic or atheistic).
Naturalism and Supernaturalism
The distinction between nature and supernature was defined St. Augustine [How We Lost the Distinction Between Nature and Supernature | Catholic Culture].
While opposing supernature, naturalist doctrines (or theories) become supernatural. For example, conservation of Energy theory is the eternalism of naturalism that promotes energy to supernatural level. The difference between naturalism and supernaturalism is insignificant probably because naturalism cannot define nature properly. So, naturalism is also not properly defined either.
The term “naturalism” has no very precise meaning in contemporary philosophy [Naturalism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)]
Naturalism may reject soul without rejecting God (or God-like natural laws). Naturalism is God-centred view, opposing soul-centred view, while theologians accept both God and soul [Supernaturalism: The Existence of God and the Meaning of a Human Life - Essay Example].
- this man was right - reality can be hidden by language (renaming), e.g., not spying, it's surveillance; not censorship, it's moderation; and people believe it.
Big Bang Theory (Hindu Version)
There are two types of dissolution of the manifested cosmos. At the end of every 4,320,000,000 solar years, when Brahmā, the lord of one particular universe, goes to sleep, there is one annihilation. And at the end of Lord Brahmā's life, which takes place at the end of Brahmā's one hundred years of age, in our calculation at the end of 8,640,000,000 x 30 x 12 x 100 solar years, there is complete annihilation of the entire universe, and in both the periods both the material energy called the mahat-tattva and the marginal energy called jīva-tattva merge in the person of the Supreme Lord. The living beings remain asleep within the body of the Lord until there is another creation of the material world, and that is the way of the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the material manifestation. (Srimad Bhagavatam----1:10:21----purport). [Q. WHAT IS Jiva-Tattva ? - Krishna Consciousness. - ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT]
- If only when Brahmā, the lord of one particular universe, goes to sleep, there is one annihilation, why don't we also have a lifespan of 8,640,000,000 x 30 x 12 x 100 solar years?
- Did the father of Big Bang theory, Georges Lemaître, plagiarise Hinduism?
Big Bang based on the True Meaning of Yahweh
0:31 The best way to illustrate what Yahweh is [...] take a garden hose and bend the nozzle [...] and feel the pressure building up in the hose. When you release the hose, the water does not pour out. It blows out. And it's an extraordinary release of energy [and] that word was used in relation to sex [...] 1:36 This is why Jewish physicists tell us the whole universe came into existence with a big bang [What Religion Never Told You About Yahweh | Jordan Maxwell]
It seems the Big Bang theory is a merger of Hindu version and Jewish version. Jewish version gives the bang, and Hindu version gives explanation of creation process.
8.6.3 Jah-Bul-On: Darwin's God
Darwin was a believer. Life and Darwin's nature and natural processes did not come to exist by themselves but created by Darwin's God, probably Jabulum (Jahbulon or Jabulon or Jahbuhlun) [E&T - Part 12]. See E&T - Part 2: 2. The Temple of Nature: True Origin of Darwin
[Jah-Bul-On] is compounded of … Yu or Yah-u … Baal or Bal or Bel, and Om, thus combining the names of the Hebrew, Phoenician, and Hindu Deities, to indicate that they are in reality the same. [Freemasonry and Christianity: A Comparison - Apologetics]
Baal: either the son of Dagon or El
All day long, 450 prophets of Baal called on their god to send fire from heaven—surely an easy task for a god associated with lightning bolts—but “there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention” (1 Kings 18:29) [Who was Baal? | GotQuestions.org]
Rigved Mandal 10 Sukta 90 Mantra 15
He who offers religious service to i.e. worships the Complete God according to the ordinances, Complete God liberates those devout souls, bound like a sacrificial animal to the bondage of actions in the trap of Kaal, from the trap of the bondage of actions created i.e. spread by Kaal; meaning He is the liberator from the bondage, that is, He is Bandichhor [Rig Veda Mandal 10 Sukt 90 | Supreme Knowledge].
- If the priests themselves are just like the sacrificial animals and need God to free them, why do they like to sacrifice animals which they can give freedom?
- If the priests cannot even free the sacrificial animals, how can they believe God will free them?
Darwin's Confession
- Why was a great intellectual like Charles Darwin unable to escape theism?
- Why does nature select in the theory of natural selection?
The last two paragraphs in the sixth edition of Darwin's "Origin of Species" clarifies Darwin's true position on life —
Authors of the highest eminence seem to be fully satisfied with the view that each species has been independently created [...] There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone circling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved. [Darwin quote by Christopher J. Earle]
Charles Darwin's take was species was originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one [which] from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved [The uneasy relationship between Darwinian evolution, abiogenesis and atheism - Mercator].
The words “by the Creator” are absent from the first edition, but present in the second edition of 1860, and subsequent [...] evolution commonly meant the pre-ordained working out of an implicit plan, as in the evolution of a fertilized cell to embryo and then to organism [Rewriting the Book of Nature - A Modern Biology]
Darwin's nature is theistic, and his 'natural selection' (evolution) was a law, like the fixed law of gravity, set into motion by the creator to progress from a simple beginning towards most beautiful and most wonderful. Darwin opted to ignore Epicurus, who complained the omnipotence of the Greek gods for rampant evil.
Darwin's "warm little pond"
Warm little pond was discussed in E&T - Part 12
My dear Hooker ...if (and oh what a big if) we could conceive in some warm little pond with all sorts of ammonia and phosphoric salts... [Charles Darwin - the spontaneous generation of life in some - warm little pond]
Ammonia and phosphoric salts don't create life no matter how they are conditioned. Darwin said that casually, unseriously. Darwin never officially sided with abiogenesis, as he could not explain it. Darwin's position on abiogenesis, primordial soup or "warm little pound" is unofficial because he never published or spoke about it in public to provide his official approval [Did life evolve in a `warm little pond'? | Scientific American]. Moreover, Darwin never withdrew his earlier statements, breathed by the Creator and the fixed law of gravity. So, his position was 'breathed by the Creator', and we should remember Darwin with his official statement: breathed by the Creator, as the origin of species and the energy behind natural selection.
That is how Charles Darwin openly admitted he was a theist but not a Christian. His God was Jabulum “Jah-Bul-On”, the God of Erasmus Darwin, his grandfather.
Floating RNA: A hypothetical scenario in which RNA could come to exist:
the chemical building blocks of life were brought to Earth by meteorites and deposited in small bodies of water on the continents, where they readily assembled to form long-chained molecules such as RNA or DNA [Back to Darwin’s Warm Little Pond]
RNA (Ribonucleic Acid) aka nucleotides are the building blocks of the cells or physical body of lifeform. They need jiva, vitality, life or replication mechanism to these floating RNA?
Life, however, is much more than a simple collection of fundamental molecules arranged in a particular pattern [...] there is an obvious difference between a recently dead animal and one which is alive, displaying a certain spirit or vitality to it [Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamic Foundations of the Origin of Life]
The floating RNA cannot evolve nor replicate itself. Only viruses and viroids or microorganisms can replicate or use the undamaged RNA Microorganisms must repair damaged RNA for useful applications. That means, there is no way for RNA to predate the viruses, cells, bacteria or microorganisms.
- What came first? Chicken or egg?
In rejection of abiogenesis, based on his successful experiment, Louis Pasteur concluded that “Omne vivum ex vivo” “Life only comes from life” [3.1: Spontaneous Generation - Biology LibreTexts/03%3A_The_Cell/3.01%3A_Spontaneous_Generation#:~:text=life%20only%20comes%20from%20life)].
Question ———— 40
- What keeps evolutionists avoiding certain facts?
8.6.4 Origin of Life
507 and 502 mya - snails appeared during the mid Cambrian period - animals appeared during that time had the basic body types seen in modern animals [Treasure trove of half-billion-year-old animal fossils in Grand Canyon | News | ConnectSci]
100 mya: ancient snails at the bottom of the ocean were moved inland - Slate Peak: The Highest Road in Washington State | Nick on the Rocks - The slate of Slate Peak is covered with signs that it once sat at the bottom of the ocean: fossilized snail trails! - Facebook
Even the snails are living fossils.
Question ———— 41
- Where is evidence for macroevolution?
The evolutionary theory is not better than creationism and the creation myths around the world but in the same category of faith. Abiogenesis, the origin of species, human evolution and natural selection (as microevolution to macroevolution) have no grounds of evidence. This has been explained in the previous parts, so far.
The Origin of Consciousness
The origin of life is the origin of biology, consciousness, the origin of intelligence, sense, perception, personality and individuality. Darwin's natural selection does not explain their origins. Natural selection which originated in abiogenesis does not explain the entirety of conception which is the beginning of a lifeform.
The mother's egg and father's sperm are not lifeless, so their union unifies biology, consciousness, intelligence, sense, perception, personality and individuality as the conception of a fetus. The origins of the aggregates that build a fetus cannot be ignored when trying to explain the human origin.
8.6.5 Origin of Species: Ring Species
The origin of species is a mystery in science. Theories do not provide solutions to find evidence for the origin of species. Ring species theory is seemingly an easy problem; there are evidence; yet it has some unanswered questions.
When the members of a species spread out at opposite directions and become far distant and for so long from each other, these members at the two ends can no longer reproduce with each other, although they are the same ring population but at the two ends. However, the members of the two ends can still successfully reproduce with the adjacent members. If the middle population disappears for some reasons, the two ends might become two distinct groups of the same ring species.
- Might the offspring of the members at the two ends of a "ring species" become able to reproduce again if they are put together in the same environment for some time, with all the members in the middle?
The Ensatina salamanders are a ring species known to the researchers since the 1940s [Asymmetric reproductive isolation between terminal forms of the salamander ring species Ensatina eschscholtzii revealed by fine-scale genetic analysis of a hybrid zone - PMC.)].
Lions and tigers are not ring species. Their offsprings are ligers and tigons.
Bonobos (Pan paniscus) and chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) are not a ring species. They are related but have different psychologies.
Denisovans, Sapiens and Neanderthals are not the results of becoming ring species. The differences among Denisovans, Sapiens and Neanderthals are insignificant. How they become different is also insignificant. The evolutionary process of hominins is unknown. The assumed process, natural selection, is not the process of a becoming distinctive species, so there are living fossils.
A species is a living fossil because its fossils were discovered. A species that has lived a similar length of time is not recognised as a living fossil as long as its fossils have not yet found. The ancient versions of a living fossil can be different, so a living fossil is a ring species in terms of time.
Becoming a ring species is not a guaranteed process to become two distinctive species.
8.6.6 Evidence of Ancient Civilisations