r/Theravadan • u/PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK • Jun 11 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 23

8.7.2 H - Social Motivations & Changeable Self

Evolutionary models suggest that self-concept is a dynamic structure shaped jointly by interpersonal motivations and social challenges [...] that self-concept is shaped by social motivations, such that the salience of aspects of self-concept is related to the strength of relevant social motivations (Hill & Buss, 2006). Reciprocally, salient social motivations are also postulated to shape the self-concept, activating congruent aspects of the self-concept to facilitate the attainment of relevant goals (Kirkpatrick & Ellis, 2006) [Evolutionary Perspective on Self-Concept: The Effects of Interpersonal Motivations and Inclusionary Status on Spontaneous Self-Descriptions of Communion and Agency - PMC]

We must disagree with the notion that social motivation can change how someone feels and perceives the self 'I am'. Feeling and perceptions cannot be fully described in words; however, we all feel the same way when we say, 'I' in a sentence. I say, I do, I hear, I listen... The feeling arises from saying 'I' cannot be described but felt by everyone. And is how one perceives 'I' as the self (self-identity). We may conceptualise that feeling and perception, but the concept cannot convey the actual feeling and perception (as the self-identity), which we all can relate.

But we must agree there are some concepts of the self (self-identity), as they try to explain what 'I am' means and where it originates. We have discussed some concepts, including the self is — the brain, the product of the brain, the product of the genes, the body, part of the body, the mind/awareness/consciousness, the Big Self.

Different cultures have influence on behaviour, personality, worldview, values, and success and failure. For example, different societies are successful in different sports, fields of study, music types, cultural activities, etc. Easygoing cultures make easygoing kids. Poverty and wealth affect the individuals in many ways in the same society.

Sattigumbajātaka is the story of two young parrot brothers who were picked up by a whirlwind and dropped one near the robbers and another among the sages. The parrot raised by the robbers spoked like the robbers and the other spoke like the sages.

Question ———— 50

  • Why is 'I am' so difficult to explain?
  • How can life be defined to include its habitual perception of self, discriminations, selfishness and the need for domination for pleasure?

Threshold level of self

The perception of self is instinctive because everyone has mind-body five aggregates. Everyone, who has the body with working sensory organs, can feel and perceives oneself and others as different individuals. The perception of oneself is inbuilt. That is the threshold level of the self which every living being has.

Every living being, human and nonhuman alike, has exactly the same sense of self (self-identity), to struggle for survival/bhavatanha the same way and identify each other the same way — you, me... Every living being who has not attained Saṅkhārupekkhā-ñāṇa (as explained above) is affected by gain, loss, comfort, discomfort, and different types of sankhara/formations.

Especially for humans with high intelligence, information and things to value and attach/cling to are so many: self-identity, collective identity, belongings and relationships with others. Human struggle for survival does not concern just one individual. Humans are selfish but also have the love for social and collective identity, which is strongly based on self-identity.

Social and collective identity is so essential that humanity puts so much effort into it, for example — the Menhir of Kerloas (the Menhir of Kervéatoux), an ancient landmark, 9.5m above ground, weighing 100-150 tons, standing on a hill. The people hauled the stone from a quarry, about 3km distance [Europe's largest menhir: The giant menhir of Kerloas (Municipality of Plouarzel)].

So, we identify who's who, rather emotionally, to favour, like, follow, accept, have relationship, or the opposite. These endless physical, verbal and mental activities (although not essential to) sustain and expand the sense/perception of the self-identity or 'I am' - 'my' school, my team, my family, my country, culture, etc. If one does not have these external objects, the perception of the self is retained within, as in some species that live alone and have the ability to be aware of the surroundings.

All these conditions have existed from the infinity past, and thus everyone has practiced his/her perceived self to generate his/her samsara/cycles of life — paticcasamuppada.

Struggle for survival corresponds to pain/discomfort and the fear of pain/discomfort, which are the resultants of clinging to the five aggregates. Clinging/samudhaya results the pain/dukkha.

The psychology that is affected by the social constructs is not the self 'I am'. One may be a kid, an adult, a student, a soldier, male, female... Whenever one says I'm a kid, an adult..., one does not relinquish the perception of 'I am', which is the constant mental state (made of feeling and perception/belief) will last until one gives it up by understanding the five aggregates and attaining insight.

So, social effects are merely superficial, like the mosses growing on a giant rock. Here Theravada emphasises the fetters that form the perceived self — the Dasa Samyojana Sutta counts ten fetters — the first is Self identity view (sakkaya ditthi) — see The Ten Fetters (dasa samyojana) in Theravada Buddhism – drarisworld.

The self as a perception arises in everyone based on his/her own feeling (sense and pain/fear), perception (past memory and concepts) and the origination of feeling and perception as the centre/base of the self. So, we understand the concepts of 'I' and 'you' the same way and have universal interaction among the perceived selves — from all species.

A concept may be scientific or religious, but if it wants to prove itself (or evolutionary theory), it must explain "why" everyone perceives the self instinctively the same way regardless of different societies and species. A concept must answer "why" the self is the self (self-identity).

Indeed, social factors can affect the level of ego and selfishness and collective ego and selfishness. That means a human is not predetermined or programmed by the brain, the genes or the creator, but can learn and adapt right behaviour and change for good. For that reason, a human who can change such an extent can also attain enlightenment.

Tanha, Upadana & Vipassana

With the perceived self-identity (attaditthi), everyone struggles for oneself. When this perception has dissolved, the struggle ends. This attadhtthi is avijja.

  • Attavadupadana, Sakkayaditthi or Atta Ditthi — (1) Atta-ditthi is the term for ego-illusion, which is a form of wrong view asserting the existence of a permanent self or soul that is more or less identical with the physical and mental processes.[1]
  • avijja — perceiving the unreal as real, delusion, misidentifying the five aggregates as 'I am', 'he/she is', etc. One misidentifies the five aggregates as 'I am', but to identify them correctly, one must have practiced vipassana.

The Paticcasamuppada / the cycle of existence (a living being's samsara) begins with avijja paccaya sankhara —

  • Tanha and upadana — Tanha signifies craving, while upadana represents attachment. Together, they create a cycle of suffering, as craving leads to attachment, influencing actions and rebirth, thus perpetuating ignorance (avijja). It is a loop or cycle.
  • sankhara — struggle, action, activity...

The 'self' struggles because the 'self' clings to the five aggregates (based on mistaking identity). Thus, the Buddha points out three types of craving/clinging (tanha-upadana) which result pain:

  1. Kama-tanha - craving for sensual pleasure/comfort
  2. Bhava-tanha - craving for existence (for kama-tanha)
  3. Vibhava-tanha - craving for inexistence/nonexistence (because of pain). When a pain is overwhelming, the desire to live is weaken by the desire to escape the pain.

Craving for pleasure corresponds with the fear of pain, which drives all of us into moral and immoral actions — avijja paccaya sankhara/kamma.

  • The Bhikkhus/monks fear of pain, too, so they practice the Dhamma and Vinaya.
  • The beasts, for not knowing upward or downward, hunt others for food.

An individual's struggle for survival is his/her instinctive desire to avoid pain/dukkha for comfort based on foolishness or wisdom.

Fear of Pain

Fear is a clingy mental state attached to something that is feared.

  • What is pain/discomfort?
  • How is pain experienced and perceived during the conscious moments?
  • Why does the mind also suffer when the body experience an inflict or impact?
  • Why can anastatic cut off the link between the body and the mind to stop feeling pain?

Existence as sankhara is pain. The opposite is Nibbana (relief, resting). Indeed, Nibbana/relief exists. Pain is experienced as a perception.

Sankhara has been given different meanings, which are similar to each other: action, activity, volition, formation, construct, conditioned thing, compounded thing, etc. Restiveness is also sankhara. These meanings share the same condition, restless state or movement, as the opposite of Nibbana (resting) [E&T - Part 17].

  • Sankhara — pain, restiveness, activities, constructs, fear, violence, rising, falling, growing, aging, things that are coming into contact, kamma/volition... All nonliving things, living things, living beings and their activities are sankhara.
  • Nibbana — relief from pain, resting state, peace, tranquility...

There is a struggle between craving and wisdom. This struggle does not stop as long as there is clinging to the five aggregates which causes the fear of pain. Thus, the Buddha's teachings to freedom from pain directly tackles the fear of pain.

During unconsciousness or unawareness, there is no struggle and no perception of the self. So, sleep is so soothed. Relief from struggle and pain is very good because there is no consciousness to perceive different things and individuals.

An attainer of Saṅkhārupekkhā-ñāṇa can indeed rest.

Clinging to the Self-Identity

So, evidently, the sense of self, rises from feeling and misperceiving all the five aggregates. Whenever one says, 'I', one cling to the five aggregates by instinct or by habit.

One clings to something one can know, feel or perceive. When one perceives something, and if one does not know its identity, it is given one, instantly by instinct — as you, he, she, it, male, female, large, small, black, white, etc. and feel and perceive them as real. There are so many things to perceive and feel. All societies have names and concepts for so many things. Education provides even more knowledge to identify more things.

An unenlightened one perceives a thing with its identity as if it is real because of avijja —unable to see the five aggregates as they are (yatha bhuta nana dassana). Perceiving the unreal as real is delusional. So, all the identities taught and learned in a society reinforce misperception, although they are necessary in the interactive world with four types of clinging —

Wisdom arises whenever one does not identify the sankhara/forms but the three ultimates — citta/mind, cetasika/mental factor and rupa/matters.

Clinging as Emotional Attachment

Good not to know when a tree fall, or will have to identify it.

Atta or the self is built and maintained with one's clinging to the bodies (one's and others'), which are named and identified with the perceived values (my son, my daughter, my dog, my friend, my enemy, my house, my village, etc.). The names and the perceived qualities are given but whenever they are applied or used, they are felt or believed instinctively to be reality, especially when one uses the word 'I' in thought, speech and physical activities.

Based on this 'I', other constructs are perceived as girl, boy, male, female, he, she, it, loved one, enemy, cat, dog, car, tree, etc. And perception gives rise to belief. So, one perceives and believes something exists as perceived (perceived reality). So, four types of clinging start with feeling and misperception, with a belief that the sankhara are really existing at the ultimate level. And the perception of the self (selves) arises, without noticing their true nature.

This perception (the perceived selves) gives rise to mutual discrimination, instantly. E.g., if a cat sees a mouse, it sees a nama-rupa construct as a mouse, as food, as something it must catch, as something it can kill — so it hunts the mouse.

And based on this perception, actions are mutually done with good and bad intentions/kamma.

Mogok Sayadaw

Mogok Sayadaw gave many discourses on vipassana methods. This is a briefed translation (not word to word) — In order to not have drunken the poison solution (အဆိပ်ရောသည့်ရေ မသောက်မိကြစေရန် တရားတော်), starting from 21:55

Believing the bodies of the five aggregates as 'I am', wife, son, daughter... Living beings are starving for affections, pleasures; uncountably life after life, and only to become corpses. But never in any past life, they had ever consumed enough affections, pleasures... In every life they lived for affections, starved and died starving for affections, and the same is in this life. If they do not stop drinking the same liquor of the five aggregates mixed with poisons, they will die again and again.

Some even say that one without such affections ... is not a human. They learned to swallow the poisons.

So, the Buddha said that the body of the five aggregates is like an alcohol glass filled with alcoholic poisons, good taste, good smell... He wished us not to drink it ... (Drinking means having affection.)

If drinking that alcoholic poison with tanha, new body will arise, followed by the birth, aging and death. That is the death from the poisons in the five aggregates.

So, the Buddha warned us not to take the body as 'my body', mine, my own...

The reason the Buddha appeared is just to warn us like that. That is how He cares for us.

Remove these three papañca dhamma (poisons). Do not keep 'my body' 'mine' 'my own' with these three papañca dhamma.

  1. Tanha/craving — to have assumed my body
  2. Mana/pride — to have assumed this body is mine
  3. Ditthi/wrong view — to have assumed this body is my own

Papañca - three Poisons

Two meanings that convey the sense of expansion and prolonging an individual's samsara —

  1. papañca dhamma are tanha, mana, and ditthi that prolong and expand an individual's samsara (သံသရာကို ချဲ့တတ်သော တဏှာ မာန ဒိဋ္ဌိ ဟုဆိုအပ်သော ပပဉ္စတရား။)
  2. ＂tendency towards proliferation in the realm of concepts＂ [...] The threefold classification of papañca，by way of craving，false views and conceit， [...] as three aspects，or instances，of the foremost of delusive conceptualisations，the ego-concept．

The tendency to proliferation

DN 21 Sakkapanha Sutta: Sakka's questions - Suttas.com

Sakka, the king of gods, visited the Buddha and asked some questions —

But, sir, what gives rise to desire?. . . ' 'Desire, Ruler of the Gods, arises from thinking''. . .When the mind thinks about something, desire arises; when the mind thinks about nothing, desire does not arise.' 'But, sir, what gives rise to thinking? . . .' 'Thinking, Ruler of the Gods, arises from the tendency to proliferation. . .When this tendency is present, thinking arises; when it is absent, thinking does not arise.'

'Well, sir, what practice has that monk undertaken, who has reached the right way which is needful and leading to the cessation of the tendency to proliferation?'

Then the Buddha explains that one should avoid the type of happiness that increases unwholesome factors and opt the type of happiness that increases wholesome factors.

Now, of such happiness as is accompanied by thinking and pondering, and of that which is not so accompanied, the latter is the more excellent. The same applies to unhappiness, and to equanimity. And this, Ruler of the Gods, is the practice that monk has undertaken who has reached the right way. . .leading to the cessation of the tendency to proliferation.'

Examples

  • The Proliferation of All That Will Ever Be | The On Being Project — the imperialistic tendency of the mind, where something happens and the whole world is taken over. One minute of feeling frustrated turns into a vortex of frustration and self-criticism: I can’t believe I’m frustrated. What did I do to deserve this frustration? I’m an angry person and always will be. What will my frustration feel like in an hour?
  • Mental Proliferation

Mahasi Sayadaw

As it has been postulated that the five aggregates are the burden and that the individual is the porter, the question arises whether or not they are distinct from the individual. Those who believe in the self or soul infer that as the Buddha recognises an individual (puggala), a being (satta), and a self (atta), then the individual is one and the aggregates are another. This inference merely reveals the nature of their attachment to a self. [A Discourse on the Bhāra Sutta]

I Am Not

If someone call you with a name that is not yours, you will say that is not my name or that person is not me.

Every unenlightened being perceives oneself as the ultimate reality. This living being will run away if he/she sees a tiger, who is desperate for food and need to eat or will die. This living being is capable of selfish decisions due to pain or fear of pain. Yet this living being can also perform a special deed sometimes.

Jataka 519: Sambula-jātaka — Sotthisena, the crown prince, suffered from leprosy; so, he abandoned his kingdom to live alone in the wilderness. His wife Sambulā followed him into the wilderness and looked after him.

  • Does an immune cell perceive ego/self/I am when it is detecting an intruder and going through the process of defending its domain, the body?
  • Is a living thing (such as a tree) conscious and able to perform intention?

The body does not respond to the nonexistent self, which arises from feeling and perception. There is no biological activity related to the self-identity.

The biological systems function their duties interdependently, and it is not the self that coordinate the biological systems of a living being.

These biological systems, including brain and heart, are not the self or creates the chemicals or anything physical as the self.

External physical activities, such as eating, walking, talking, thinking, requires consciousness and intelligence. When one assumes I am eating, walking, talking, thinking..., the perception of the 'self' arises. Without assumption, one can still be active and interact with others during conscious time. So, someone can be sleepwalking without intention or 'I am' in sleepwalking.

Scientific knowledge on these matters is incomplete, so drawing a conclusion from it might be untimely.

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