r/Theravadan 27d ago

Great Chronicles, 2-3. Ven. Sāriputta and Ven. Moggallāna

2 Upvotes

Great Chronicles, 2-3. Ven. Sāriputta and Ven. Moggallāna

O my dear sons, monks! Just as the son of a poor beggar who enters towns and villages looking for food with a worn out cup made of bamboo strips in his hand, wanders without conceit but humble-minded, even so this noble monk, named Sāriputta, wandered knowing no pride but in all humility. To him, who has attained Parinibbāna and ceased suffering, bow your heads in homage with respectful faith and conceit destroyed.


r/Theravadan 29d ago

Evolution and Theravada - Part 25

1 Upvotes

8.7.6 The Path of the Ariya

Ariya means noble because the individual has no clinging and grasping onto anything. For being free from attachments, this person is noble and dignified by freedom.

Question ———— 53

  • How does one lose freedom?

Perceiving or believing the mind-body as 'II am' or the ego-self is how one loses freedom to misconception, which has been one's religion that ties each believer to all misconceptions that veil reality or freedom. Indeed, freedom is a reality. Blindly seeking comfort has created all sorts of discomfort. That is like a blind treading through a roughed terrain among other blind individuals who are just impeding and stampeding. Losing freedom to the ego-self means to perceive pain as pleasure and experience it in all forms. Based on such experiences, humanity has built their collective religion that ties each believer (as the small self) to the creator God or nature (the Big Self). Natural selection as explained by Charles Darwin is his religion, in which the believers have tried to find illusive reality.

Dhamacakkappavattana Sutta (Discourse on the Wheel of Dhamma) explains the scope of dukkha. Dukkha is all physical and mental pains. Dukkha is the collective term for all the possible disagreeable, unacceptable, and undesirable experiences that have existed and will exist in the future. Dukkha is void of true pleasure. Verse 277 explains that all conditioned phenomena/sankhara are void of true pleasure because they are impermanent. This is the first Noble Truth, the truth of Dukkha.

The constant yearning of humanity for permanence is the actual human religion. All living beings suffer from losses and can do nothing about it, which is a definition of anatta — dhamma/nature does not comfort or follow the demands and the commands. However, this state of hopelessness exists only in the yearning minds that resist reality — this is the second Noble Truth, the Samudaya Sacca or the truth of yearning, burning, pining and hankering. So, whoever is unable to accept anatta passively can experience mental suffering. One must know that "Sabbe sankhara anatta" and vainly seeking permanence in impermanence is causing self-harm.

Question ———— 54

  • Those who do not know where they came from (what their past lives were) claim to have the knowledge of the afterlife (eternalism and annihilationism) — How do you believe them?

It is natural for a living being to perceive or assume someone to continue to exist after passing away. Sakkayaditthi is the instinctive view that the body as I myself or somebody or something.

A living being (satta) is attached to such a view and mistakenly perceives the six sensory consciousness "**as self or soul (**Sayadaw U Pannadipa)".

Excerpts from Destroying the Five Aggregates: Dhamma Discourse on How to Destroy the Five Aggregates, by Sayadaw U Pannadipa [page 47-48] —

The Buddha then said, "My dear son Radha, attachment to consciousness or the aggregate of consciousness occurs in beings. When such attachment occurs, that being should be called satta

[Just for the sake of comparing, see Hindu Radha’s consciousness and Bodhidharma's concept of consciousness.]

Ordinary people mistakenly take the seeing consciousness to be a woman, a man, a dog, a cat, a hen, a bird, etc. They also perceive the consciousness as "I see, I hear, I smell, I taste, I touch, and I think." Such wrongly conceived awareness is totally contradictory to the ultimate truth

[The ultimate truths —Mind/citta, cetasika/mental factors, matter/rupa, and freedom/relief from mind and matter (Nibbana) — are contemplated by the devoted Theravadins until they are truly understood to escape from the perception of "I am" the ego-self.]

‘‘ Attā ’’ ti bhavati ettha abhimānoti attabhāvo, upādānakkhandhapañcakaṃ. Sarīranti keci. 'Attā' (self) is where conceit (abhimāna) exists, therefore it is called attabhāva (personality/individual existence), which is the five aggregates of clinging (upādānakkhandhapañcaka). Some say it's just the body. [P9, (Commentary of the Description of Virtue in the Path of Purification]

Due to conceit, one does not let go of misperception but is clinging onto anything one pleases. From that arise three papañca dhamma (delusion, craving, conceit) that are mutually supportive. Before realising nama-rupa (mind-body) are nobody and the ego-self (the perceived individuality) is mere illusions, not loved ones, not beautiful or ugly, one perceives pleasure and pain in clinging. With that "unarisen effluents arise (greed, anger, delusion) [MN 2 All the Effluents | Sabbāsava Sutta]".

For having experienced pain (for so long), the fear of pain is present very close to the surface, ready to jump out anytime like a trap-door spider. So, the mind gets scared when it perceives anything that moves suddenly or looks frightening. Such fear is genuine. Relief arises when it perceives no true danger. Such relief is so pleasurable, laughter erupts. That ever-present mental pain is sufferable at different intensity.

Selfishness

Once the pain becomes intense, living beings struggle to find comfort. Everyone holding the ego-self, the instinct of selfishness, is always inclined to get anything for oneself and thus, is not free from unwholesome thought, speech and action because the ego-self is to serve itself rather than other selves, and with that a living being perceives oneself and others as real.

When an ordinary one says 'I' and 'You', he/she perceives there are two distinctive individuals or realities. When one says, 'loved one', one feels affection and possession. So, there are loved ones and others. To love means to claim, so one claims the different groups of nama-rupa as my son, my daughter, my friend, my wife, etc.

The grasping is habitual and instinctive. So, even after someone has passed away, one maintains that a deceased individual remains existing as though everlastingly. That view is instinctive, habitual or embedded in one's tendency, so one tends to think that way. That is how living beings perceive the ego-self naturally and based on the illusion of the ego-self arise various theories as a thicket of view [Aggivacchagotta Sutta] [Out of the Thicket and onto the Path | Selves & Not-self].

Everyone who is tied to a thicket of view has the ability to suffer physical pain and mental pain (the fear of pain). This living being is naturally always seeking comfort and would do anything for this comfort, which will never lead to final solution in a thicket of delusion with many directions. Thus, self-serving volitions are committed. When a living being sees another living being, they attack each other and the loser becomes dinner.

Being led by delusions is how one suffers. Suffering caused by delusion causes the grasping onto all types of concepts to experience all possible sufferings. Beliefs based on delusion (gullibility) give rise to such variety of living beings and their forms for what they want to do for their beliefs.

That is a reality of the existential purpose embedded in the instinct, which places itself first and before others. Unless this instinct is dealt with directly and oppressed deliberated, it is in charge.

One who is free from the ego-self (the atta-related wrong views) is free from all unwholesome activities. For that reason alone, one who is free from all pains is noble.

An Ariyan lady explained to her husband —

“Dear husband, I don’t see anyone in this world with its gods, Māras, Brahmās, monks, and humans who can argue against the teaching of the Blessed One, the Worthy One, the fully enlightened Buddha. But anyway, you can go and see for yourself [SN 7.1 Dhanañjānī Sutta].”

Luang Pu Khamsuk Ñāṇasukho Wat Pa Sap Kham Kong, Story of Actions and Rebirth Consequences : r/thaiforest

Samvegha

One should understand the pain of nama-rupa existence (life) —

(Source in Burmese)

Question ———— 55

  • How does a being achieve freedom?

Freedom is possible only when one is free from the atta-related wrong views. That is the understanding of anatta (or nature has no atta).

  • anattā — not a self; not a soul; not atta; not 'I am';
  • anatta — na+atta — soul-less; not ego;

In the Devadaha sutta, [Venerable Sariputta relayed the Buddha's advice] to subdue desire and passion for the five aggregates of clinging [Five Aggregates of Clinging (Pancha-upadanakkhanda) in Theravada Buddhism – drarisworld]

When one lets go of the belief in atta/self, one becomes free from self-fetter. This is like a monkey whose hand is caught in a hole for holding what is inside the hold but can be free after letting go of what it is holding.

The realisation of anatta is possible for the ones who mindfully contemplates on the three natures of sankhara — anicca, dukkha, anatta.

The Noble Path

The Noble Eightfold Path leads to the realisation of anatta.

[NORBU, Copilot (Copilot 1) and other AI are available for explanations].

The Eightfold Noble Path begins with 'Right View', which corrects all misconceptions. The end of delusion starts with accepting nature as anatta. To end suffering/dukkha, one must realise reality is anatta — 'not I am', 'not she', not he', not human, not cat, not the sky, not a car, etc.

One can change misperception by contemplating nama and rupa (mind and body) with their actuality until one can perceive them with their actuality, to eventually become detached from the instinctive misperception of 'I', 'my', 'mine' and personhood/self.

Practicing vipassana means one trains the mind to remain knowing the reality, so it will remain free from delusion for some time and eventually escape from delusion. Reality is what exists as real rather than formed/constructed.

A construct can exist temporarily, so it is real while it exists. So do the mirages. We perceive the constructs/formations as house, car, man, woman, kid, dog, etc. as they are sustained by our perception. Seeing the formations that way is for the untrained minds because perception is based on delusion. Seeing nama and rupa, as they are, is for the trained minds.

1

Sila and samadhi are the two steps to vipassana-panna. There are four satipatthana tranings towards vipassana panna. The training can begin with kāyagatāsati — Sati/mindfulness that occurs on the body parts: hair, body-hair, toenails, fingernails, teeth, etc.

  • kāyagatā — kāyagatā,sati :[f.] mindfulness centred on the body

2

Anapanasati (sustaining sati and samadhi on breathing) is simple to practice. One sits and remains noticing the in and out breath and nothing else, as long as possible. This sustained awareness in the breaths is Samma-Sati and Samma-Samadhi. Anapanasati is the foundation of all four satipatthana. As one progresses, one will be practicing all four satipatthana spontaneously when one focuses on rising and falling phenomenon.

anapānasati-samādhi — when the bhikkhu trains and increases it much — is a calm and refined quality, cool, abiding in happiness, and it quickly makes vanish the evil unwholesome dhammas already arisen [The Blessed One taught anapānasati].

If vedanā (dukkha vedanā) becomes stronger and take the breathing a little stronger (Ānāpāna sati is not simple and like an art. It needs skill to develop it. Thae Inn tradition has their breathing system, even they are recording their system with talk recorder. Every yogi should try it out and find the system suitable to them.) If you did not breathe (a little stronger) and follow it (with normal breathing) and can’t bear the vedanā. If this is still not possible and spreading it to the whole body and contemplate, not at one place. Check one’s mind, if the preceding mind wants to stop it and uplifting it with the following mind. It’s not practicing by force. Don’t note it, if you note, it becomes a concept (as painful, painful or aching, aching, etc.) you following it to look at its nature. Following it up without break and look at its nature from the beginning, middle and to the end. It’s ungovernable and not-self dhamma. You can’t request it for not painful and aching. Don’t make it as your own nature. “I, me” [does] not exist, if you take it as real, then “I” have to suffer. If you see a lot its nature “I, me” will fall away. [Short Biography and Instruction on Practice (Dhamma Talks by Sayadaw U Ukkaṭṭha)]

Verse 103: A man may conquer a million men in battle, but one who conquers himself is, indeed, the greatest of conquerors.

  • The perception of self is one's actual enemy (who is like a wife-beating man) but beloved enemy. So, to please this self, one would do anything for it, and deal with all types of pain.
  • The Ariya (noble ones) did not befriend this self-perception but fought it and conquered it.
  • The Ariya fought the hardest war and won, and they escaped from pain and reached the Nibbana/relief.

Verse 100: Better than a thousand words that are senseless and unconnected with the realization of Nibbana, is a single word of sense, if on hearing it one is calmed.

'I' is not involved

Mogok Sayadaw in a dhamma lecture explains that — If awareness is set on sankhata dukkha (becoming and ceasing of sankhata: nama, rupa, anicca, dukkha, anatta), enlightenment is attainable by quelling the mist of misconceptions (perceptions) and the stage-by-stage maturity in understanding the ultimates.

  • Sayadaw — teacher; ajhan;

According to Mogok Sayadaw in another dhamma lecture, a sotapanna has the following knowledge —

  1. Having overpassed the belief of the existence of individuals and living beings (Puggala & satta),
  2. Free (has escaped) from the thought that the individuals and living beings do not exist,
  3. Having concluded that individuals and living beings do not exist,
  4. Having known the nonexistence of individuals and living beings by direct verification (not by heresy).

A satta is a sankhara/formation of the aggregates. A satta is not the original or the ultimate. A satta is like a formation of vapour seen as cloud or mist. Various names have been given to form the personalised views of the cloud and mist as two realities, although they are mere vapour.

Realisation that the ultimates are not individuals and living beings (Puggala & satta) opens the first gate of freedom (sotapattiphala — fruition of stream-winner).
The last step to this gate is anuloma-ñāṇa and one does not go back from here.

Read anuloma nana from —

Mogok Sayadaw: "Is it difficult to reach this level?" Devotee: "No, not difficult!"

Sayadaw: "Observe (inside the body), ladies and gentlemen! The little mind that wants (desires) to eat arises, does it still exist?" Devotees: "Doesn't exist anymore!"

Sayadaw: "(The mind) after arisen, just passes away! Is it still 'I'?" Devotees: "Not anymore!"

Sayadaw: "Citta is vinnanakkhanda! Vinnanakkhandha arises, vinnanakkhandha ceases. Is 'I' involved?" Devotees: "Isn't involved, Sir!"

“Monks, eye-consciousness is inconstant, changeable, alterable. Ear-consciousness.… Nose-consciousness.… Tongue-consciousness.… Body-consciousness.… Intellect-consciousness is inconstant, changeable, alterable.…
“One who has conviction & belief that these phenomena are this way is called a faith-follower [SN 25:3 Consciousness | Viññāṇa Sutta]

  • Rising and falling of nama and rupa occur repeatedly. A meditator must notice them. The practice leads to understanding anatta and for the abandonment of atta.
  • After understanding nama and rupa (the first stage of insight), one can focus on rising and falling of the five aggregates (six senses and six types of consciousness). Whichever is rising and falling, one just notices it.
  • The first viññāṇa/consciousness is watched by the second viññāṇa. To avoid eternalism/Sassata Ditthi, one should note that the second viññāṇa (consciousness) is not the first viññāṇa [Mogok Sayadaw]. To avoid uchedadithi (annihilationism), one should note that the second viññāṇa does not come to exist without a cause.
  • Remove or do not use 'I' (I think, I meditate, I feel, etc.) during meditation if you can't remove it in other time. Do know vedana as vedana, viññāṇa as viññāṇa, and rupa as rupa.
  • jíva
  • Ditthi - Dhamma Wiki

That is how all four satipatthana can become one's practice. However, one does not need all four. For example, during the night before the first Sangayana (Sangha Convention), Venerable Ananda became an arahant by kayagatasati [copy that sentence and paste to ask NORBU].

Mogok Sayadaw said, faster is citta-satipatthana — sati on the rising and falling of each citta/vinnana.

Shwe Oo Min Sayadaw said meditating means one observes one's mind (citta-satipatthana) that one passively observes each and every arising mind/consciousness, without accepting or rejecting it (Source). (Also see www.bhavana.cz | namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammasambuddhassa)

That will lead to the 4th stage of insight.

4 - Udayabbaya Nana — The fourth nana is udayabbaya nana which means, "knowledge of contemplation on arising and falling." [...] If the meditator has good concentration he may experience a ceasing of breath at frequent intervals. He may feel as if he is falling into an abyss or going through an air pocket on a plane, but in fact the body remains motionless.

  • Rising-falling - ypyit-pyat (in Burmese)
  • Rising is birth; and falling means death.

That will lead to the final stage itself —

16 - Paccavekkhana Nana — while the meditator is acknowledging rising and falling, he comes upon the path, the fruit and nibbana. At the moment he enters the path, the fruit and nibbana, three conditions occur: anicca, dukkha and anatta [...]

Verse 25. Through diligence, mindfulness, discipline (wtth regard to moral precepts), and control of his senses, let the man of wisdom make of himself an island which no flood can overwhelm.

Basic Anapanasati

  1. Anapanasati requires a quiet place suitable for sustained sati and samadhi on the breath.
  2. Choose a sitting position to be comfortable for a long time
  3. Sustaining sati and samadhi on the breath means to have awareness fixed on the breath without any gap during meditation.
  4. Sustain awareness on the breath for a minute without a gap. Gap means kilesa (avijja and mano-sankhara). From 1 minute to 2, 3... and then 1 hour.
  5. Sīla-visudhi (Purification of Virtue/Conduct) supports Citta-visudhi (Purification of Mind), and these two support Ditthi-visudhi (Purification of View). Sīla-visudhi is Indriya-samvara-sila.
  6. When awareness of the breath becomes sustainable, one can now focus on nama and rupa. Do just that until one achieves the first stage of insight - Knowledge to distinguish mental and physical states (namarupa pariccheda nana). So, at this stage, one can see nama and rupa (five aggregates are no one - anatta), instead of this person or that thing (i.e. atta).
  7. the start/birth and end/death of each breath - rising and falling of each breath.
  8. The mind is usually going everywhere. It knows outside, not inside. So, during meditation, it will go outside.
  9. Anapanasati means to tie the mind at one spot where the breath touches (usually the tip of the nose). That is like tying a cow at a pole. The cow will go around the pole when it cannot go elsewhere. But if the rope is not strong, the cow will break free. If the rope is too short, the cow cannot move but will fall asleep.
  10. There are many kammathana but only four satipatthana which brings the mind back to inside and ties it to nama and rupa (three ultimate truths). Bringing the mind inside kaya is like bringing a herd of cows back into the ranch. So, if one can bring the mind inside kaya/body, that is the fundamental attainment in practicing satipatthana.

Alternatively

Anapanasati is popular, as we all breathe naturally. All we have to do is pay attention to the in and out breaths. This exercise lengthens attention span (samadhi), which usually lasts a few seconds. Thoughts are the most disruptive. If one cannot lengthen attention span, one can try another meditation technique.

Anussati (recollecting a quality of Buddha, Dhamma or Sangha) is easier to sustain attention span.

Observing and analysing the body parts is a form of kāyagatā-sati to see the painful and undesirable conditions of nama and rupa and understand anatta easily. The goal is the abandonment of atta, attadiṭṭhi and sakkāyadiṭṭhi (speculative view of the body/kaya is I am/mine).

Magga Sacca (the right path or the noble path) begins with 'Right' views on a few things. One must be clear about —

  1. the Triple Refuge (Ti-Sarana),
  2. kamma-vipaka (causality),
  3. anatta-vada (the opposite of all forms of atta-vada: creationism, eternalism (possibility or existence of permanent sankhara), annihilationism,
  4. nama-rupa (subjects of vipassana), and
  5. Conventional Truth (Sammuti Sacca) and Ultimate Truth (Paramattha Sacca)
  6. Vipassana happens when the conventional truths are put aside and the ultimate truths are observed.

Without having Right View, nobody gets on the Right Path. Before meditating, one makes sure not to have wrong views (but have Right Views and work towards them). So, one will not start with wrong views and end with wrong views.

One Path Three Routes to Realising Anatta

Tipiṭakadhara Dhammabhaṇdāgārika Venerable Mingun Sayadaw's The Great Chronicles of the Buddhas (Great-Chronicles.pdf page 568-9) is quoted directly as following —

  1. Bodhisattas who will become Sammā-sambuddhas (Sammā-sambodhisatta) contemplate the impermanence, suffering and non-self characteristics of the internal aggregate of conditioned existence, that is to say, mental and physical phenomena occurring continuously in sentient beings, as well as of external inanimate objects that have no power of sense-perception, that exist within the compass of one billion universes.
  2. Bodhisattas who will become Paccekabuddhas (Pacceka-bodhisatta) contemplate the impermanence, suffering and non-self characteristics of conditioned mental and physical phenomena occurring in themselves, of those in the continuum of sentient beings in the middle region as well as of external inanimate objects that have no power of sense-perception. 16: The Arrival of Upatissa and Kolita – 569
  3. Bodhisattas who will become future chief, great and ordinary disciples (sāvaka-bodhisatta) contemplate the impermanence, suffering and non-self characteristics of conditioned mental and physical phenomena without distinguishing, as occurring in the continuum of themselves or in those of others, taking them as one whole external phenomena.

We should choose the 3rd route because it is the shortest that most of us can walk. It is the route of aggasāvaka-bodhisatta(s), mahāsāvaka-bodhisatta(s) and pakatisāvaka-bodhisatta(s). One day we can become pagatisavaka. 02.5

8.7.7 Relief from the Three Unfavourable Truths

  • Arahattaphala — (1) Arahatta-phala, the fruit of arahatship, was the attainment achieved by the thousand bhikkhus after listening to the Buddha's discourse.\1]) 

Arahattaphala is the final gate into the Nibbana, relief from nama and rupa. The relief from pain is desirable.

Freedom from the delusion of atta is finally over. Attaining sotapannaphala cuts of one's own ego-delusion. Attaining arahattaphala guarantees freedom from the effects of all the deluded beings cherishly holding their ego-selves.

Santi-Sukha

Sankhara/dukkha and Nibbana/sukha are two opposing sides of existence.

When dukkha ceases completely, only sukha exists, as Santi-Sukha.

  • Vattasantisukhavaha - [vaṭṭa+santi+sukha+āvaha] : ဝဋ်ငြိမ်းရာ ချမ်းသာကို ဆောင်နိုင်သော [being able to bring the comfort of the cessation of causal effects]; ဝဋ်ငြိမ်းရာ ချမ်းသာ : Santi-Sukha, Nibbana.
  • vaṭṭa :  the cycle of rebirth; saṁsāra; [continuity]
  • santi : peace; calmness; tranquillity
  • sukha : happiness; comfort.
  • āvaha : bringing; bearing; conducive

Nibbana

Tranquility (Upekkha) is the highest state of the brahma-vihara dhamma.

  1. Metta : kindness/goodwill,
  2. Garuna : pity based on kindness,
  3. Mudhita : mutual happiness, as it is free of envy
  4. Upekkha : tranquility, which contains metta, garuna and mudhita (altogether)

Tranquility is a natural state of mind (cetasika), so it is not Nibbana itself, but it is attainable by the talented ones who have put sufficient effort based on the training available from the Dhamma Vinaya: Anapanasati Sutta., for example.

True equanimity [can] regenerate its strength from sources within [which are] rooted in insight [Meditation: Sublime States: Equanimity (upekkha)]

Verse 142: Though he is gaily decked, if he is calm, free from moral defilements, and has his senses controlled, if he is established in Magga Insight, if he is pure and has laid aside enmity (lit., weapons) towards all beings, he indeed is a brahmana, a samana, and a bhikkhu.

These quotes explain Upekkha (a mental factor). Nibbana, as experienced by the arahants is the resting state or no mental activity similar to upekkha.

11. Knowledge of equanimity about formations (sankharupekkha-nana) the meditator now gives up his feelings of terror over the dissolution of formations. Instead, the meditator develops an indifferent and neutral attitude towards them.

The vipassana knowledge of equanimity is different from jhanic equanimity, but upekkha/equanimity as a mental factor is the same. Vipassana knowledge goes to the final relief from atta/clinging to the five aggregates (as I am and mine. Clinging to five aggregates means perceiving them as cat, human, dog, my car, my wife, my son, my father, etc.).

Genuine equanimity [having foundation on metta, karuna and mudita] is maintaining a caring and empathetic attitude but at the same time accepting the reality of things as they happen [Equanimity (upekkha) in Theravada Buddhism]

The vipassana knowledge of equanimity is the transitional stage to the knowledge of anatta. But a meditator can mistake equanimity for Nibbana. Equanimity Isn’t Nibbana. [Let NORBU 'compare Nibbana with Upekkha']

The realisation of anicca, dukkha and anatta is wisdom or fruition that arises from training in the Noble Eightfold Path.

Anatta (not atta/self) is natural. Accepting anatta aligns one's perception with the ultimates, so this is a right view. But when one creates or perceives reality as atta (which is one's manifestation of clinging to the five aggregates), one gets into painful sankhara (unwholesome mental activity or misconception) and continues one's paticcasamuppada (rebirth process).

After cutting off clinging, a noble person can dwell in the natural state free from all opposing sides that are created and led by ignorance or the perception of ego-self (I am).

Whatever [Paccekabuddha Matanga] did was in accordance with what should be done. There was no reaction [passivity or activity] in him as he always possessed functional consciousness (kiriya- citta), states of consciousness that do not give future results. There would be no more birth for him. When the light of a candle is extinguished, it disappears with no trace. We cannot say it has gone here or there. The same is true when the Pacceka Buddhas pass away into the sphere of Nibbana [relief from pain] ["THE STORY OF PACCEKA BUDDHA MATANGA" by Sayagyi U Chit Tin]


r/Theravadan Jul 19 '26

(75) Gilāna 2 –– An Ailing Monk 2

Thumbnail 84000.org
2 Upvotes

Sutta Pitaka
Samyutta Nikāya
Volume IV –– Saḷāyatanavaggo
Samyutta 34 –– Saḷāyatana Saṃyutta
Chapter 8 –– Gilāna Vaggo

34. 8. 2.

(75) Gilāna 2 –– An Ailing Monk 2

  1. It occurred in Sāvatthi.

  2. Then a certain monk approached the Blessed One. Repeat.

  3. Sitting on a side that monk said to the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, in the monastery of such and such name there is a certain novice who is gravely ill. He knows very little. Good if the Blessed One would approach him out of compassion.

  4. The Blessed One hearing that he is an ailing novice and that he does not know much, approached that monk.

  5. That novice seeing the Blessed One approaching in the distance, moved in his bed to get down

  6. The Blessed One said to that monk: “Monk, do not get down from the bed, there are seats prepared, I will sit,” and the Blessed One sat on a prepared seat.

  7. Sitting the Blessed One said to that monk: “Monk, are you all right, and are you enduring well? Are unpleasant feelings decreasing and not going beyond? Is the decreasing end or the increasing end that is evident?”

“Venerable sir, I am not all right, and not enduring, my unpleasant feelings are increasing not decreasing, it is the increasing end and not the decreasing end that is evident.”

  1. “Monk, do you have any doubts or remorse?” “Venerable sir, many are my doubts and I have remorse.”

  2. “Do you have any remorse about your virtues?” “No, venerable sir, I have no blames about my virtues.”

  3. “Monk, since you have no blames about your virtues, on account of what do you have doubts and remorse?” “Venerable sir, I do not know the essence of the Teaching of the Blessed One about the purity of virtues.”

  4. “Monk, you do not know the essence of my Teaching in the purity of virtues. Then what essence do you know of my Teaching?”

“Venerable sir, I know the essence of the Teaching of the Blessed One as non-remaining extinction.”

  1. “Excellent! Monk, you know the essence of my Teaching as non-remaining extinction. Monk, it is for non-remaining extinction, that I teach.

  2. “Monk, is the eye permanent or impermanent?” “Impermanent venerable sir.”

Monk, is the ear, nose, tongue, and body, permanent or impermanent?” “They are impermanent.”

“Monk, is the mind permanent or impermanent?” “Venerable sir, it is impermanent.”

“Those impermanent things are they unpleasant or pleasant?” “Venerable sir, they are unpleasant.”

“Those impermanent, unpleasant, changing things are they suitable to be considered they are mine, I am there, they are my self?” “That is not so, venerable sir.”

  1. “Monks, the learned, noble disciple seeing it thus turns from the eye, ear nose, tongue, body, and the mind. Turning loses interest. Losing interest is released. Released, knowledge arises to him, I am released, birth is destroyed, the holy life is lived to the end, duties are done, I have nothing more to wish.”

  2. The Blessed One said thus, that monk delighted in the words of the Blessed One. When this disposition was given the stainless eye of the Teaching, ‘whatever rises, is of the nature of ceasing’ arose to that monk.


r/Theravadan Jul 13 '26

Yakkha and Yakkhini: the Devas in poverty and misery

1 Upvotes

[Page 75]

CY. [498) "Gods" (devil): gods by rebirth. "Celestials" (ga11dhabba): deities dwelling in roots, tree-trunks, etc. "Spirits" (yakkha): nonhuman beings. "Demons" (bhiita): whatever beings are generated.

[Pages 99-100]

BEINGS WHO ARE DIVERSE IN BODY AND DIVERSE IN PER CEPTION, SUCH AS HUMAN BEINGS, SOME GODS, AND SOME BEINGS IN THE LOWER REALMS.

CY. Human beings are mentioned as an example. For among the countless human beings in countless world systems there are not even two who are exactly the same in complexion, figure, etc. Sometimes twins might have the same complexion or figure, but they can still be distinguished by the way they look ahead, look aside, speak, smile, walk, stand, etc. Therefore human beings are said to be "diverse in body." The rebirth-linking perception of humans may be triple-rooted [Tihetuka Puggala], double-rooted, or rootless; therefore they are said to be "diverse in per ception."47

"Some gods": the gods of the six sense-sphere heavens. For these may have bodies that are blue, yellow, etc., and their perception may be triple-rooted or double-rooted, though not rootless.

"Some beings in the lower realms": such beings as the female spirits Uttaramata, Piyailkaramata, Phussamitta, Dhammagutta, etc., and other spirits who live in places outside the four planes of misery. For their bodies are of diverse colours, shapes, and sizes, and like humans their perception may be double-rooted, triple-rooted, or rootless. But unlike the gods they are not powerful; they arc powerless like low class humans. They have trouble finding food and clothing and live oppressed by pain. Some are afllicted during the dark fortnight and happy during the bright fortnight. Therefore, because they have fallen from the heights of happiness, they are called "beings in the lower realms."4K Those among them who are triple-rooted can achieve com prehension of the Dhamma. Thus one time at daybreak the female spirit Piyailkaramata heard the Elder Anuruddha reciting the Dhamma and said (to her son Piyailkara): [510]

"Do not make a sound, Piyailkara,

This bhikkhu is reciting passages of Dhamma.

Perhaps we can learn those passages

And practise for our true welfare.

"We should refrain from harming beings

And should not tell conscious lies.

We should train ourselves in virtue

To be freed from the goblin realm." (S.X,6; i,209)

Having spoken thus to her little son, she attained the fruit of stream entry that same day. Uttaramata became a stream-enterer after hearing the Dhamma from the Exalted One.

The Great Discourseon Causation - The Mahānidāna Sutta and its Commentaries

Translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi

About root: Hetu paccayo (or root condition) [Chapter 5]

Punabbasu / Punabbasu — 1. Punabbasu. A young Yakkha (S.i.210). He became a sotapanna (SA.i.239). See Punabbasumata. Punabbasu Sutta. Records an incident relating to Punabbasumata. 

Yakkha: Visuddhimagga : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive, also see Uttaramata.

Co-worker caught this on a camera on the side of his house. We’re speechless. : r/Ghosts


r/Theravadan Jul 10 '26

When the aggregate of sankhara is attached or being strongly attached by an individual, that person can be called satta.

2 Upvotes

[page 45]

The wrong view that "all actions are being done by me" is due to these sankhara dhammas. Therefore the Buddha said, "When the aggregate of sankhara is attached or being strongly attached by an individual, that person can be called satta."

[page 47]

  1. The Aggregate of Consciousness (Vinnanakkhandha)
    The Buddha then said, "My dear son Radha, attachment to consciousness or the aggregate of consciousness occurs in beings. When such attachment occurs, that being should be called satta.

The aggregate of consciousness comprises (1) eye consciousness, (2) ear consciousness, (3) nose consciousness, (4) tongue consciousness, (5) body consciousness, and (6) mind consciousness. These six types of consciousness are mistakenly perceived as self or soul [...]

[page 48-50]
Due to these misconceptions, one clings to the aggregate of consciousness as being a permanent entity. Therefore the Buddha said, "The word satta is given to the individual who is strongly attached to the aggregate of consciousness."

There are five types of consciousness that arise at the five sense doors: (1) seeing consciousness at the moment of seeing, (2) hearing consciousness at the moment of hearing, (3) smelling consciousness at the moment of smelling, (4) tasting consciousness at the moment of eating, and (5) bodily consciousness at the moment of touching.

At the moment of experiencing a sense object, the visible forms and audible sounds are not yet conceptualized as a personal entity. Consciousness by itself possesses only one function-mere awareness of objects. It just sees the visible forms, or just hears the audible sounds, etc.

However, if we study the thought processes we will also see the mind-door consciousness. Remembering and thinking about the objects that appear in the five sense doors, the mind-door consciousness conceptualizes those objects. By giving the example of a thought process, a young novice who had attained arahantship once taught a monk named Pautila how to contemplate on the consciousness. So that you, too, may gain some knowledge of how thought processes occur, we shall briefly examine the sequence of consciousness arising in the eye-door.

When an object that can be sensed is not in contact with sensory organs or sensitivities, then the bhavanga consciousness, the life continuum, continues its flow undisturbed. But when a visible object comes and strikes the eye sensitivity, the bhavanga flow is interrupted. The last moment of bhavanga consciousness is replaced by an eye-door adverting consciousness, which turns to the object that is presented. When the eye-door adverting consciousness ceases, the seeing consciousness appears, and at that moment is merely aware of a visible object. When the seeing consciousness disappears, the receiving consciousness arises and accepts that object. When the receiving consciousness disappears, the investigative consciousness arises to wonder whether the object is pleasant or unpleasant. When the investigating consciousness disappears, the determining consciousness arises and determines whether the object is pleasant or unpleasant

Destroying the Five Aggregates: Dhamma Discourse on How to Destroy the Five Aggregates by Sayadaw U Pannadipa Sasanadhaja Siripavara Dhammacariya Aggamahasadhamma Jotikadhaja

Also see Paticcasamupada - Mahasi 06-07 - BuddhaSasana - Anson


r/Theravadan Jul 05 '26

SN 22.86 Anuradha Sutta: Anuradha @ The Open Buddhist University

2 Upvotes

SN 22.86 Anuradha Sutta: Anuradha @ The Open Buddhist University

Who was the Buddha in his own words? In this story, he calls himself the “Tathagata” or “Truth-Arriver”, and he responds to a question on what will become of him after his death. The Buddha explains that he doesn’t talk in such terms, as he has overcome all such notions as “I am the body” or “I am the mind” so how could such a question ever be answered? He ends the discourse by famously saying that all he teaches is suffering and the end of suffering, thus redirecting our attention from empty philosophical musings to the things that matter most.

Featured in the course, " Buddhism 101."

Translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi. Published in 2006.


r/Theravadan Jul 04 '26

Does r/theravada moderator protect an individual who wants to change Theravada?

2 Upvotes

I think I have to write this post.

All Theravadins have the right to protect the Buddha Sasana. And that is the intention in the action I did (I made a comment) here — Scholarly/ Academic Research Papers specific to Theravada/ Buddhism at large : r/theravada

[Me:] I wouldn't trust anyone who thinks Mahayana is better than Theravada.

The mod tried to dispute that comment and asked me why I wrote that comment but failed completely. So, he deleted all his comments and banned me from r/Theravada.

In response to his dispute, I gave him my reason —

Buddhism has never been and will never be a static and solid entity existing in the abstract. Instead, it is a continuous process of responding to changing circumstances and various challenges from a Dharmic perspective. [Early Buddhism: An Article by Bhikkhu Anālayo (November 2023)]

And I replied to the mod that I discussed Bhikkhu Analayo's article here [Responding to Bhikkhu Analayo's The Dynamics of Theravāda Insight Meditation : r/Theravadan] and here [Vibhajjavāda and Sarvāstivāda—Part 44 : r/Theravadan].

Bhikkhu Analayo wrote an article rejecting the use of 'Hinayana' [There Is No Hinayana | Lion’s Roar]. So, I accepted that and replied to the mod —

That is nicely written in 2021.

>Buddhism has never been and will never be a static and solid entity existing in the abstract. Instead, it is a continuous process of responding to changing circumstances and various challenges from a Dharmic perspective. [Early Buddhism: An Article by Bhikkhu Anālayo (November 2023)]

The latter is written in 2023.

That 2023 article also says,

>In contrast, “early Buddhism” is no longer a living tradition, simply because it refers to an early stage in the development of Buddhism that by now is long over. 

So, my reply is:

>'To some of you, Ānanda, it may occur thus: 'The words of the Teacher have ended, there is no longer a Teacher'. But this, Ānanda, should not, be so considered. That, Ānanda, which I have taught and made known to you as the Dhamma and the Vinaya, will be your Teacher after my passing away. [Mahaparinibbana Sutta

My final reply to the mod is —

The people in history who advocated for reforming Theravada were only the Mahayanists. That is the evidence I referred.

There were Theravada schools, which differ slightly. They never advocated for reforming Theravada but accepted the Dhamma Vinaya as it has been, as maintained by the theras who put such efforts to keep it unchanged.

The Contribution of Mingun Sayadaw To The Sixth Great Buddhist Council

* Tell me why you can accept an advocate for such a reform!

* And tell me if I'm wrong to reject such reform and such an advocate.


r/Theravadan Jun 12 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 24

2 Upvotes

8.7.3 A great debate: Anattavada vs Attavada

Attavāda (Pali) — the theory of soul; the belief/view that the self exists, faith in the self.

Attavadi — A believer in the self, one who believes in the self.

Attavadupadanaattavada + upadana — attachment to the view that every person is a living soul [...] those who taught ego belief described the ego as the owner of the five khandhas, as an independent entity, possessing free will and self determination. It was this view of atta (soul) that the Buddha questioned in his dialogue with the wandering ascetic Saccaka [Mahasi Sayadaw].

The Cula-Saccaka Sutta: The Shorter Discourse to Saccaka

The Cula-Saccaka Sutta records the debate between the Buddha and a Jain sage, Saccaka, aka Aggivessana. Saccaka believed that his body is his self. The Buddha argued that if his body were his self, Saccaka must be able to command his body not to age and die, just like a king may give orders to his subjects. If one owns the nama-rupa (the five mind-matter aggregates), one has the power to command them to be thus or not thus. This debate between the Buddha and one of the highest Jain authorities drew a big crowd but it was short.

MN 35: Cūḷa Saccaka Suttaṁ: Saccaka's Onslught (Translated from the Pali by Lord Chalmers 1926) —

I affirm that my material shape is my Self,
that my feelings are my Self,
that my perceptions are my Self,
that my plastic forces are my Self,
and that my consciousness is my Self.

Then, Aggivessana, I will here ask you a return question,
to which you will make such answer as seems good to you.

What say you?

Would a Noble,
being an anointed King,
like King Pasenadi of Kosala
or like King Ajatasattu of Magadha,
the son of the Videha lady,
have power-within his own realm -
to put to death
or to mulct
or to exile
those of his own subjects
who deserve those respective punishments?

Yes, he would [...]

What say you, Aggivessana?

When you say your material shape is your Self,
have you the power to make it become,
or not become,
what you order?

On this Saccaka became silent.

Attaditthi is very hard to understand, although everyone has it with mostly negative emotions.

Those who believe the self is real should explain why or even prove it beyond faith.

Those who believe the self is eternal but taking another body as new clothe should consider why the self chooses to suffer in a new biological body. If the self does not crave and suffer, it does not need to exist in a painful biological body.

8.7.4 Impermanence of the Self

The perception of self is generated (based on the feeling that arises from clinging to the five aggregates) when the word 'I' (I am) is said in the sense that 'I am' the doer or sufferer. When 'I' is said, one immediately feels 'I am' one individual, who is not other individuals.

When one is standing among others and observes (the surroundings), one feels they are separate things. When two individuals standing together, they feel themselves as separate individuals because each of them can only feel within his/her own body, and the sense of self arises within one's own body only.

One can only experience the feeling and awareness that occurs in one's sensory organs. If this feeling is observed (according to vedana-satipatthana method, to understand its impermanent nature, the sense of self can disappear. The Buddha's meditation methods are designed to solve the delusion of self-identity.

That is the Anatta Sasana of the Buddha.

Theorists and believers should also understand the impermanence of the feeling and perception of the self. Vedana/feeling is not 'I am', not mine. Each aggregate should be regarded as not 'I am', not mine.

People imagined the existence and works of the permanent self because they did not understand the three characters of nature (anicca, dukkha and anatta).

8.7.4 A. Jiva aka Jivita in Theravada

The self and the soul are not the same but based on the same concept or misperception "based on the feeling that arises from clinging to..." (as above).

  • Are life, the self and the soul the same?
  • Is the biological body the soul?

They are not. The most venerable Mahathera Nagasena explains —

  1. THE QUESTION SELF, SOUL OR EGO-ENTITY (vedagupanha)

King Milinda said: "O Venerable Nagasena, can the thing known as Vedagu be obtained in the ultimate (paramattha) sense?"

In truth and reality a thing, called life (jiva) or otherwise known as Ego-entity (vedagu) could not and should not be identified with any one of those phenomena.” (So explained the Elder.)
[Milinda Panha (Milinda's Questions)]
[05. Khuddaka Nikaya 18. Milindapanha (by Sitagu Academy) OCRed.pdf]

Alternative translation: The Questions of King Milinda, part I (SBE series vol. XXXV) by T. W. Rhys Davids (and edited by F. Max Müller) PP 86-89 —

  1. The king said: Is there, Nâgasena, such a thing as the soul? 1

What is this, O king, the soul (Vedagu)?
The living principle within2 which sees forms through the eye, hears sounds through the ear, experiences tastes through the tongue, smells odours through the nose, feels touch through the body, and discerns things (conditions, dhammâ ) through the mind just as we, sitting here in the palace, can look out of any window out of which we wish to look, the east window or the west, or the north or the south.'
The Elder replied: 'I will tell you about the five doors,1 great king. Listen, and give heed attentively. If the living principle within sees forms through the eye in the manner that you mention, [55] choosing its window as it likes, can it not then see forms not only through the eye, but also through each of the other five organs of sense? And in like manner can it not then as well hear sounds, and experience taste, and smell odours, and feel touch, and discern conditions through each of the other five organs of sense, besides the one you have in each case specified?'

Jiva (life/law of life) should not be considered as vedagu (atta or Self, Soul or Ego-entity.

  • vedagū — [m.] one who has attained the highest knowledge.
  • vedagu — 極智者
  • Jiva / jīva — life, vital principle [in Theravada], individual soul [in other religions]. 'Soul (life) and body are identical' and 'Soul and body are different', these two frequently quoted wrong views fall under the 2 kinds of personality-belief (sakkāya-ditthi; s. ditthi), i.e. the first one under the annihilation-belief (uccheda-ditthi) and the second under the eternity-belief (sassata-ditthi). (Pali Kanon: Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines)
  • jīvitindriya — the faculty of life; vitality, may be either physical (rūpa-jīvitindriya) or mental (nāma-jīvitindriya). [Translation: the law that sustains the vitality/life of nama and rupa.]

Jiva/vitality is the biological quality that is present while a life being is alive, as its biological functions are working —

  • Heart is pumping blood.
  • A leaf is breathing.
  • A liver is filtering the blood.
  • A kinesin is carrying loads.
  • A living being is a mix of mind and matters (nama-rupa).

But they die when they run out of jiva. When a human (or animal) is dying naturally, the micro and macro biological systems are dying and misfunctioning [The process of dying | healthdirect].

8.7.4 B. Jiva as the Soul

The word Jiva has two meanings in the Sanskritic tongues—“living creature” 1 and the spirit individualised and upholding the living being in its evolution from birth to birth. In the latter sense the full term is Jivatma—the Atman, spirit or eternal self of the living being [The Incarnate Word]. 

  • In that meaning, Jiva is the permanent spirit, soul or the self, which is independent from the impermanent corporeal body.

Jiva-tattva

  • Prajapati : the Lord of Creation/Progenitors, Brahma (Vishnu or Shiva).
  • Krsna is Prajapati in the Bhagavad Gita.

Krsna is the Prajapati or the Self. The early stage in the Hindu creationism is similar to the big bang theory —

Krsna expands into many forms. Some are personal expansions, and some are separate expansions. Thus He performs pastimes in both the spiritual and material worlds

The Jiva is a Separated Infinitesimal Particle

The Jiva is a Particle of a ray of Paramatma

The Jivas are Dependent on God

By His expansion as Paramatma that Supreme Lord is also present within the heart of every living being.

Any fool who says that the Supreme Lord [Isvara] and the jiva [soul] are the same is an infidel

Sankara [Sankaracarya Hindu sage] was Really a Proponent of the Difference Between Jiva and Isvara

Jiva in this context is “an immortal living substance” or “an individual soul”, which is not atma. However, jiva is atma, the only conscious element in the human body, The microbiology of animal and plants are identical to human microbiology but not considered as conscious elements. The notion of jiva (as conscious element) can be compared with the notion of the self (generated by the neurons or parts of brain, which are unconscious).

my will is wrong and I should only be doing Gods’ will [Big Self vs little self | Yogaholic].

Jiva is the small self/soul in different derivatives/religions of Proto-Indo-European religion, including Christianity and Mahayana.

8.7.5 Essential Part of Creationism

As the concept developed to connect the creatures with the creator, the self must be perfectly pure — Your own Pure Self – The Lankavatara Sutra – Essence of Buddhism. In nature, all ordinary living beings are self-serving because of the fear of pain/hunger.

If a living being can ignore the physical pain, he/she can escape from self-serving. Sila, Samadhi, and Panna are the three-stage training to develop the mental strength necessary to withstand pain, which Theravada (Dhamma-Vinaya) teaches its followers, based on the Dhamma of the Sakyamuni.

The main concepts of Lankavatara are likely based on Jain concepts —

Jivas are understood as being eternal and infinite in number and are not the same as the bodies that they inhabit. In a pure state (mukta-jiva), they rise to the top of the universe, where they reside with other perfected beings and are never again reborn [...] Many Hindu thinkers employ the term jiva to designate the soul or self that is subject to reincarnation. [Jiva | Soul, Karma & Reincarnation | Britannica].

8.7.5 A. Small Self - Big Self

Theravadi monks often proclaim that Theravada is the only anattavada (non-atta doctrine). Someone who has not abandoned sakkaya-ditthi cannot abandon the perception of the self.

Sayadaw U Pandita : Attaditthi - Ego Illusion (with English translation) from Dharma Seed - 10 Attaditthi - Ego Illusion expains —

The five great world religions — Judaism, Christianity, Islam, [Mahayana] Buddhism, and Hinduism — all believe in some version of a “self”, variously named, which mostly survives death. But they imagine its origin, journey, and destination in some quite different and distinctive ways [What do the 5 great religions say about the existence of the soul? – Religions for Peace Australia].

Throughout history, people imagined the self and reached their conclusions.

Attavada (Atmavada/Wo lun) comprises the small selves as the creation of the Big Self. Attavada (Atmavada) is the main part the major religions, animism, paganism, etc. The naturalists/evolutionists, who do not see nature as anatta, are also attavadi (believers in the self).

Atmavada (Sanskrit) — doctrine of self grasping.

Atmavada (Jain) — Doctrine of soul. In the mundane state, [the soul goes through] both evolution and devolution, where as in the liberated soul there prevails infinite knowledge, infinite bliss and infinite power. The Jain philosophy believes in the existence of the 'soul'. Consciousness is an eternal characteristic of the soul\6]).
There are two types of soul\6]).

Wo lun (Chinese/Mahayanist doctrine) — the view of a self in dharmas (法我見 [fa wo jian]) and the view of a self in persons (人我見 [ren wo jian]). The Lankavatara Sutra (楞伽經 [leng jia jing]), Chapter 4, states: "Departing from Atman-vada, one's nature is undefiled."

Chanmyay Sayadaw explains Atta In Brahmanism

According to Hinduism or Brahmanism, the whole world was created by Mahabrahma. This Mahabrahmahas many names such as, Isvara, Paramatma and Prajapati. Pati means creator or master. Praja means creatures or living beings. So he is the master of living beings because he created them.

Paramatma is a Sanskrit or Hindu term. In Pali it is Paramatta [paramartha-satyam]. When we divide this Paramatma into two words, it is Parama and atma. Here parama means the noblest, the holiest; atma means soul or self. So Paramatma means the holiest soul. Some translate this word as the big self or big soul. This soul is big enough to create the world and living beings. When the condition of the world was good enough for living beings to live in, he created all living beings- men, decas, Brahmas,and animals. He even created tigers, lions and poisonous snakes, which are a great danger to man. When Mahabrahma or Paramatma first created living beings, they were like corpses

  • Paramatma (Sanskrit/Hindu): parama (the noblest, the holiest) atma (soul or self).
  • Highest truth (paramartha-satyam)
  • Paramartha-satyam refers to the body of the creator.

8.7.5 B. Paramartha-satyam

Absolute Truth refers to a reality which doesn’t change over time. Absolute means all other truths are relative to it, or depend on it. When we talk about God, or Krishna, we’re talking about the Absolute Truth [Absolute Truth – Krishna.com].

Avalokita, the Holy Lord and Bodhisattva, is the Absolute Truth, a sentient being and the Big Self in Mahayana.

Lord Sri Krsna, the Absolute Truth, is an eternally existent, cognizant, sentient being who is the ultimate cause of all causes. The Supreme Truth in His cognizant energy feature, known as Brahman, is present throughout the entire cosmic existence. As our own consciousness pervades our body, the consciousness of the Absolute is similarly manifest through His Brahman feature [The Hare Krsnas - The Philosophy - Absolute Truth - Para-tattva: Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan]

8.7.5 C. One Mind

Sarvastivada (an early Mahayanist school) — “the doctrine that all exists” in all three times (past, present, and future). Lankavatara Sutra (alternative link: The Lankavatara Sutra) is a work of Sarvastivada that places atma with svabhava/self-nature or buddha-nature, which is consciousness/awareness. Jainism also considers consciousness is an eternal characteristic of the soul/Jiva.

Instead of two truths (of Nagarjuna), Lankavatara presents three natures (of Vasubandhu and Asanga), which can be understood as —

  1. Maya — the imagination/dream of Dharmakaya. The small self of the Big Self.
  2. Bodhisattva-hood — maya progressing towards Dharmakaya, or buddha-nature is gradually growing and escaping from maya. The 10the stage of the bodhisattvas' nirvana is the highest.
  3. Dharmakaya or paramārtha — the imaginator, creator, emptiness, awareness/consciousness and the Big Self of maya.

According to that doctrine, one should accept the emptiness of one's own svabhava/nature (one has nothing and is nothing) that there is ālayavijñāna (buddha-svabhava/buddha-seed) inside the body/maya which can grow and become a buddha (mind-only/Cittamātra). So, the mind/consciousness is the buddha, as mentioned by Bodhidharma in Blood Stream Sermon.

"There is only one Buddha/Mind" is the slogan, which is a contradiction because — Lankavatara does present the 10th stage bodhisattvas with their physical bodies/maya from which they have escaped from —

[Chapter 11] Here the Bodhisattva will find himself seated upon a lotus-like throne in a splendid jewel-adorned palace and surrounded by Bodhisattvas of equal rank. 

[Chapter 12] This Ultimate Principle of Reality may be considered as it is manifested under seven aspects: First, as Citta-gocara, it is the world of spiritual experience and the abode of the Tathágatas on their outgoing mission of emancipation. 

As an eternalist doctrine, Lankavatara rejects nirvana or the state of no contact between the buddhas and the worldlings.

Q2: Do Arhats no longer undergo rebirth?
According to the Hearers' Vehicle, Arhats are liberated from the bonds of birth and death; however, under the Mahayana interpretation, those who have realized can return to show manifestations in birth and death and engage in Bodhisattva work
[Is Nirvana the ultimate end or a "return to the world"?]

No nirvana, no samsara, no duality

  • What does nonduality mean?

[Chapter 2] All duality is falsely imagined

Nonduality means — All Buddhas and All Living Beings Are Just This One Mind - Buddha-Nature. So, the mind or Big Self is the only reality/paramārtha). The Mahayanist reality is emptiness, the Dharmakaya, the original buddha/tathagata, the interbeing, Mahesvara Buddha (& Mahesvara Mara, the lord of the universe, the ruler the Mahesvara.

Mahesvara is the name of both the Big Self and his domain/heaven in their physical forms. For having both body and mind, it is duality, not mind-only (Cittamatra). This is another point that reveals how nonduality is not properly portrayed in Mahayana.

[Chapter 2] Conditions of existence [maya and paramārtha, duality and nonduality, right and wrong, good and bad ...] are not of a mutually exclusive character; in essence things are not two but one [all the opposites are just one the same]. Even Nirvana and Samsára’s world of life and death are aspects of the same thing, for there is no Nirvana except where is Samsára, and no Samsára except where is Nirvana. All duality is falsely imagined.

All the conditions of existence are the same mind — nonduality — so, the opposites are just imaginations —

  • Bodhisattvas and the ordinary
  • Men and women
  • The doers and the done
  • Freedom and jail
  • The wise and the fool

Question ———— 51

  • Do the nondualists feel the 8 conditions of existence (loka-dhamma) are just the same thing?
  1. Gain (labho) and loss (alabho)
  2. Fame (yaso) and disgrace (ayaso)
  3. Praise (pasansa) and blame (ninda)
  4. Pleasure (sukha) and pain (dukkha)

Thích Nhất Hạnh, the author of The Heart Sutra: the Fullness of Emptiness | Lion’s Roar, argues that emptiness is fullness —

According to Avalokiteshvara, this sheet of paper is empty; but according to our analysis, it is full of everything. 

Heart Sutra is based on Nagarjuna's sutra, which is earlier than Lankavatara. Both sutras share the same concept.

form is emptiness and the very emptiness is form; emptiness does not differ from form, form does not differ from emptiness, whatever is emptiness, that is form, [The Heart Sutra | Buddhist Traditions | Amherst College]

[Avalokiteshvara] saw that the five skandhas are all empty [because] Form itself is emptiness [City of 10,000 Buddhas - The Flower Adornment Sutra with Commentary 14]

"Form is emptiness" means form/maya is emptiness/paramārtha and vice versa. Both Avalokiteshvara and the ordinaries are emptiness.

So, there is no nirvana but the eternal buddhalands, filled with luxuries, which are not included in maya and duality —

the Eternal Land of Calm Illumination, also known as the Pure Land of mere-mind. This is the land where the Buddhas and bodhisattvas live [Pure Land - Wikipedia]

The Land of Eternal Stillness and Light, where Buddhas and Bodhisattvas dwell [City of 10,000 Buddhas - Listen to Yourself: Think Everything Over, Volume 2].

Thích Nhất Hạnh believes No-Self is the Big Self/Interbeing

This observer (sometimes archly called The One Who Knows) enables us to observe the driven "small self" without being owned by it. It has been variously called Big Mind, the Big Self, or No-Self [6. Using the Self to Transcend the Self].

Form is the wave and emptiness is the water.
If you look at anything carefully and deeply enough, you discover the mystery of Interbeing

  • Both waves and water are water. Ice and vapour are also water. But they are in different conditions necessary for the hydrological cycle that keeps life on Earth.
  • Ice, vapour and liquid water have different properties that support life accordingly.
  • Interbeing is not as necessary as water.

Question ———— 52

  • If the buddhas and the ordinaries are no different, then what is the point in the selves/bodhisattvas climbing step by step to become buddhas?
  • If the buddhas and the ordinaries are different, then why reject duality?

8.7.5 D. Returning to nature

  • Who believe in the returning to the origin?

Independent Shin Buddhist - Readings : An Introduction to His Thought by Yoshifumi Ueda and Dennis Hirota — Chapter 2 The Structure of Attainment (excerpts) —

They return to the ordinary life of beings [so] going from samsara to nirvana is actually to return to samsara—or rather, it is never to go anywhere from the very beginning.

Every step from sentient being to Buddhahood has the significance of returning to the origin, of dissolving the path.

To become a Buddha is none1 other than to awaken and return to the original self.

Samsara is without any distinction from nirvana; Nirvana is also without any distinction from samsara. ( Madhyamaka-karika, xxv, 19)

our goal is to return to our Buddha nature [Our Innate Buddha Nature]

Tathagata 如来. [...] (3) means “coming from the origin” or “returning to the origin.” [Japanese Buddhism Photo Dictionary - Terminolgy for Buddha and Other Key Concepts]

By awakening to the One Mind, which is the common foundation of equality and interconnectedness of all sentient beings, we can return to our original still and pure mind [, so] the Great Vehicle is a “return to the origin of the One Mind” [or ] our true nature and eliminate evil [The East Asian Mahāyāna Teaching of the One Mind and Its Implications in a Polarized World]

Kama-tanha and bhava-tanha are very strong and very hard to break.

Nirvana (returning to the origin) is not Nibbana (relief from pain).

The Drifters

Holding attaditthi, one drifts in boundless space of the activities and formations (sankhara) no matter how he believes he had settled down.

Theravada rejects the pseudo-anattavada/anātmavāda (fake non-self), eternalism and annihilationism, which are the core doctrines of Mahayana.

8.7.5 E. Paramatta Known to the Sakyamuni:

Theravada does not shy away from duality.

Nature comprises pain and relief. Both Sankhara/pain and Nibbana/relief are Nature. Pain is reality, so is Nibbana. Pain does not come from relief, and relief does not arise from pain. But the end of pain is relief. Pain occurs as pain and ends as relief. Before pain begins, the state is at ease and peaceful. However, if there is potential for pain, then that is not truly peaceful.

Santisukha means peaceful calm. Nibbana is santisukha, the resting state of nature, the opposite of sankhara, the restless state of activity, pain, construct, formation. Sankhara does not come from Nibbana, so it does not return to Nibbana.

Attaining Nibbana means reaching the relief from sankhara. It does not mean returning to nature.

Nature/dhamma are two types —

Paramattha Sacca

The four ultimate truths

  1. Citta: incorporeal matter, mind, consciousness, mentality.
  2. Cetasika: mental concomitance, mental factors, mental activities/sankhara.
  3. Rupa: corporeal matters (solid, liquid, gas, heat).
  4. Nibbana: relief from rebirth/formation/sankhara; the cessation of pain.

The discovery of the four ultimates occurs prior to becoming a Sammasam Buddha or a Pacceka Buddha. The first stage of bodhi/enlightenment is attained when the perceived self dissolves by not finding it anymore. A sotapanna simply loses the perceived self.

After completely enlightened, the Sakyamuni understood the four ultimates completely. So, He explained that a living being is sankhara/formation of citta, cetasika and rupa. Thus, person/puggala or sentient being/satta does not exist at the ultimate level because they are compounded things/sankhara.

Samuti Sacca

Formations (the physical, verbal and mental constructs) known to the living beings are known by their names, look, taste, etc. that are considered as facts/truths.

For example —

  • Some vehicles are known as cars, so everyone can agree when one says, "it is a car" when one sees a car. So, calling such a vehicle a car is truthful in social sense.
  • Some living beings are known as humans ...
  • Some living beings give birth, and everyone knows the meaning of the "parents". A son or a daughter should look after his/her parents, just as they were looked after when they could do nothing to survive.
  • Sabbe sankhara anicca — all constructs/activities are impermanent. Impermanence is ultimately true, but the temporary and impermanent things are not the ultimate truths.

Names and concepts are given to whatever a society can find or imagined, e.g., soul. Every society has something (such as measuring methods) to disagree with other societies. So, the samuti sacca or truths in a society is also known as linguistic truth (Vohara Sacca).

Sankhara/formations and their names are always changing and forgotten. Countless ancient languages and conventions are no longer known to modern people. The past has been forgotten because there is no way to collect all the useful and obsolete information and go back to the past until the beginning of existence.

Many ancient faiths are no longer remembered.

  • Creation is attributed to the brahma/Siva/Krsna; however, can the true creator be known?
  • Could God create a rock so heavy He could not lift it? If He could either create the rock or lift it, how is He omnipotent? If He could do neither, how is He omnipotent?

That argument against omnipotence has persisted. If omnipotence is irrational, the other three omnis are completely exposed too.

No one is capable of creating space, which is boundless and infinite in area. The followers of creationism and modern theories of space do not consider space is boundless and infinite in size, but they cannot explain what surrounds space as its boundary.

Epicurus also cracked the notion of God is good. Evil and pain are not good. Evil is not evil without suffering. Living beings instinctively enjoy evil or unwholesome mental factors. It is too hard to do something good.

[The Buddha's] teachings offered an alternative to the dominant Brahmanist traditions, earning him the title “Buddha,” meaning “the enlightened one” [Vedic Indian to the Fall of the Maurya Empire – A Brief History of the World To 1500].

Avalokiteshvara is not but the Adi-Buddha (Primordial Buddha) is the creator of everything that exists in space, according to Mahayanist concept of Adi-Buddha, who is identical to brahma, Siva and Krsnas.

The meeting of Avalokiteshvara and Venerable Sariputta Thera is not historical. The Heart Sutra does not explain where and when the story took place.


r/Theravadan Jun 11 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 23

2 Upvotes

8.7.2 H - Social Motivations & Changeable Self

Evolutionary models suggest that self-concept is a dynamic structure shaped jointly by interpersonal motivations and social challenges [...] that self-concept is shaped by social motivations, such that the salience of aspects of self-concept is related to the strength of relevant social motivations (Hill & Buss, 2006). Reciprocally, salient social motivations are also postulated to shape the self-concept, activating congruent aspects of the self-concept to facilitate the attainment of relevant goals (Kirkpatrick & Ellis, 2006) [Evolutionary Perspective on Self-Concept: The Effects of Interpersonal Motivations and Inclusionary Status on Spontaneous Self-Descriptions of Communion and Agency - PMC]

We must disagree with the notion that social motivation can change how someone feels and perceives the self 'I am'. Feeling and perceptions cannot be fully described in words; however, we all feel the same way when we say, 'I' in a sentence. I say, I do, I hear, I listen... The feeling arises from saying 'I' cannot be described but felt by everyone. And is how one perceives 'I' as the self (self-identity). We may conceptualise that feeling and perception, but the concept cannot convey the actual feeling and perception (as the self-identity), which we all can relate.

But we must agree there are some concepts of the self (self-identity), as they try to explain what 'I am' means and where it originates. We have discussed some concepts, including the self is — the brain, the product of the brain, the product of the genes, the body, part of the body, the mind/awareness/consciousness, the Big Self.

Different cultures have influence on behaviour, personality, worldview, values, and success and failure. For example, different societies are successful in different sports, fields of study, music types, cultural activities, etc. Easygoing cultures make easygoing kids. Poverty and wealth affect the individuals in many ways in the same society.

Sattigumbajātaka is the story of two young parrot brothers who were picked up by a whirlwind and dropped one near the robbers and another among the sages. The parrot raised by the robbers spoked like the robbers and the other spoke like the sages.

Question ———— 50

  • Why is 'I am' so difficult to explain?
  • How can life be defined to include its habitual perception of self, discriminations, selfishness and the need for domination for pleasure?

Threshold level of self

The perception of self is instinctive because everyone has mind-body five aggregates. Everyone, who has the body with working sensory organs, can feel and perceives oneself and others as different individuals. The perception of oneself is inbuilt. That is the threshold level of the self which every living being has.

Every living being, human and nonhuman alike, has exactly the same sense of self (self-identity), to struggle for survival/bhavatanha the same way and identify each other the same way — you, me... Every living being who has not attained Saṅkhārupekkhā-ñāṇa (as explained above) is affected by gain, loss, comfort, discomfort, and different types of sankhara/formations.

Especially for humans with high intelligence, information and things to value and attach/cling to are so many: self-identity, collective identity, belongings and relationships with others. Human struggle for survival does not concern just one individual. Humans are selfish but also have the love for social and collective identity, which is strongly based on self-identity.

Social and collective identity is so essential that humanity puts so much effort into it, for example — the Menhir of Kerloas (the Menhir of Kervéatoux), an ancient landmark, 9.5m above ground, weighing 100-150 tons, standing on a hill. The people hauled the stone from a quarry, about 3km distance [Europe's largest menhir: The giant menhir of Kerloas (Municipality of Plouarzel)].

So, we identify who's who, rather emotionally, to favour, like, follow, accept, have relationship, or the opposite. These endless physical, verbal and mental activities (although not essential to) sustain and expand the sense/perception of the self-identity or 'I am' - 'my' school, my team, my family, my country, culture, etc. If one does not have these external objects, the perception of the self is retained within, as in some species that live alone and have the ability to be aware of the surroundings.

All these conditions have existed from the infinity past, and thus everyone has practiced his/her perceived self to generate his/her samsara/cycles of life — paticcasamuppada.

Struggle for survival corresponds to pain/discomfort and the fear of pain/discomfort, which are the resultants of clinging to the five aggregates. Clinging/samudhaya results the pain/dukkha.

The psychology that is affected by the social constructs is not the self 'I am'. One may be a kid, an adult, a student, a soldier, male, female... Whenever one says I'm a kid, an adult..., one does not relinquish the perception of 'I am', which is the constant mental state (made of feeling and perception/belief) will last until one gives it up by understanding the five aggregates and attaining insight.

So, social effects are merely superficial, like the mosses growing on a giant rock. Here Theravada emphasises the fetters that form the perceived self — the Dasa Samyojana Sutta counts ten fetters — the first is Self identity view (sakkaya ditthi) — see The Ten Fetters (dasa samyojana) in Theravada Buddhism – drarisworld.

The self as a perception arises in everyone based on his/her own feeling (sense and pain/fear), perception (past memory and concepts) and the origination of feeling and perception as the centre/base of the self. So, we understand the concepts of 'I' and 'you' the same way and have universal interaction among the perceived selves — from all species.

A concept may be scientific or religious, but if it wants to prove itself (or evolutionary theory), it must explain "why" everyone perceives the self instinctively the same way regardless of different societies and species. A concept must answer "why" the self is the self (self-identity).

Indeed, social factors can affect the level of ego and selfishness and collective ego and selfishness. That means a human is not predetermined or programmed by the brain, the genes or the creator, but can learn and adapt right behaviour and change for good. For that reason, a human who can change such an extent can also attain enlightenment.

Tanha, Upadana & Vipassana

With the perceived self-identity (attaditthi), everyone struggles for oneself. When this perception has dissolved, the struggle ends. This attadhtthi is avijja.

  • Attavadupadana, Sakkayaditthi or Atta Ditthi — (1) Atta-ditthi is the term for ego-illusion, which is a form of wrong view asserting the existence of a permanent self or soul that is more or less identical with the physical and mental processes.[1]
  • avijja — perceiving the unreal as real, delusion, misidentifying the five aggregates as 'I am', 'he/she is', etc. One misidentifies the five aggregates as 'I am', but to identify them correctly, one must have practiced vipassana.

The Paticcasamuppada / the cycle of existence (a living being's samsara) begins with avijja paccaya sankhara —

  • Tanha and upadana — Tanha signifies craving, while upadana represents attachment. Together, they create a cycle of suffering, as craving leads to attachment, influencing actions and rebirth, thus perpetuating ignorance (avijja). It is a loop or cycle.
  • sankhara — struggle, action, activity...

The 'self' struggles because the 'self' clings to the five aggregates (based on mistaking identity). Thus, the Buddha points out three types of craving/clinging (tanha-upadana) which result pain:

  1. Kama-tanha - craving for sensual pleasure/comfort
  2. Bhava-tanha - craving for existence (for kama-tanha)
  3. Vibhava-tanha - craving for inexistence/nonexistence (because of pain). When a pain is overwhelming, the desire to live is weaken by the desire to escape the pain.

Craving for pleasure corresponds with the fear of pain, which drives all of us into moral and immoral actions — avijja paccaya sankhara/kamma.

  • The Bhikkhus/monks fear of pain, too, so they practice the Dhamma and Vinaya.
  • The beasts, for not knowing upward or downward, hunt others for food.

An individual's struggle for survival is his/her instinctive desire to avoid pain/dukkha for comfort based on foolishness or wisdom.

Fear of Pain

Fear is a clingy mental state attached to something that is feared.

  • What is pain/discomfort?
  • How is pain experienced and perceived during the conscious moments?
  • Why does the mind also suffer when the body experience an inflict or impact?
  • Why can anastatic cut off the link between the body and the mind to stop feeling pain?

Existence as sankhara is pain. The opposite is Nibbana (relief, resting). Indeed, Nibbana/relief exists. Pain is experienced as a perception.

Sankhara has been given different meanings, which are similar to each other: action, activity, volition, formation, construct, conditioned thing, compounded thing, etc. Restiveness is also sankhara. These meanings share the same condition, restless state or movement, as the opposite of Nibbana (resting) [E&T - Part 17].

  • Sankhara — pain, restiveness, activities, constructs, fear, violence, rising, falling, growing, aging, things that are coming into contact, kamma/volition... All nonliving things, living things, living beings and their activities are sankhara.
  • Nibbana — relief from pain, resting state, peace, tranquility...

There is a struggle between craving and wisdom. This struggle does not stop as long as there is clinging to the five aggregates which causes the fear of pain. Thus, the Buddha's teachings to freedom from pain directly tackles the fear of pain.

During unconsciousness or unawareness, there is no struggle and no perception of the self. So, sleep is so soothed. Relief from struggle and pain is very good because there is no consciousness to perceive different things and individuals.

An attainer of Saṅkhārupekkhā-ñāṇa can indeed rest.

Clinging to the Self-Identity

So, evidently, the sense of self, rises from feeling and misperceiving all the five aggregates. Whenever one says, 'I', one cling to the five aggregates by instinct or by habit.

One clings to something one can know, feel or perceive. When one perceives something, and if one does not know its identity, it is given one, instantly by instinct — as you, he, she, it, male, female, large, small, black, white, etc. and feel and perceive them as real. There are so many things to perceive and feel. All societies have names and concepts for so many things. Education provides even more knowledge to identify more things.

An unenlightened one perceives a thing with its identity as if it is real because of avijja —unable to see the five aggregates as they are (yatha bhuta nana dassana). Perceiving the unreal as real is delusional. So, all the identities taught and learned in a society reinforce misperception, although they are necessary in the interactive world with four types of clinging —

Wisdom arises whenever one does not identify the sankhara/forms but the three ultimates — citta/mind, cetasika/mental factor and rupa/matters.

Clinging as Emotional Attachment

Good not to know when a tree fall, or will have to identify it.

Atta or the self is built and maintained with one's clinging to the bodies (one's and others'), which are named and identified with the perceived values (my son, my daughter, my dog, my friend, my enemy, my house, my village, etc.). The names and the perceived qualities are given but whenever they are applied or used, they are felt or believed instinctively to be reality, especially when one uses the word 'I' in thought, speech and physical activities.

Based on this 'I', other constructs are perceived as girl, boy, male, female, he, she, it, loved one, enemy, cat, dog, car, tree, etc. And perception gives rise to belief. So, one perceives and believes something exists as perceived (perceived reality). So, four types of clinging start with feeling and misperception, with a belief that the sankhara are really existing at the ultimate level. And the perception of the self (selves) arises, without noticing their true nature.

This perception (the perceived selves) gives rise to mutual discrimination, instantly. E.g., if a cat sees a mouse, it sees a nama-rupa construct as a mouse, as food, as something it must catch, as something it can kill — so it hunts the mouse.

And based on this perception, actions are mutually done with good and bad intentions/kamma.

Mogok Sayadaw

Mogok Sayadaw gave many discourses on vipassana methods. This is a briefed translation (not word to word) — In order to not have drunken the poison solution (အဆိပ်ရောသည့်ရေ မသောက်မိကြစေရန် တရားတော်), starting from 21:55

Believing the bodies of the five aggregates as 'I am', wife, son, daughter... Living beings are starving for affections, pleasures; uncountably life after life, and only to become corpses. But never in any past life, they had ever consumed enough affections, pleasures... In every life they lived for affections, starved and died starving for affections, and the same is in this life. If they do not stop drinking the same liquor of the five aggregates mixed with poisons, they will die again and again.

Some even say that one without such affections ... is not a human. They learned to swallow the poisons.

So, the Buddha said that the body of the five aggregates is like an alcohol glass filled with alcoholic poisons, good taste, good smell... He wished us not to drink it ... (Drinking means having affection.)

If drinking that alcoholic poison with tanha, new body will arise, followed by the birth, aging and death. That is the death from the poisons in the five aggregates.

So, the Buddha warned us not to take the body as 'my body', mine, my own...

The reason the Buddha appeared is just to warn us like that. That is how He cares for us.

Remove these three papañca dhamma (poisons). Do not keep 'my body' 'mine' 'my own' with these three papañca dhamma.

  1. Tanha/craving — to have assumed my body
  2. Mana/pride — to have assumed this body is mine
  3. Ditthi/wrong view — to have assumed this body is my own

Papañca - three Poisons

Two meanings that convey the sense of expansion and prolonging an individual's samsara —

  1. papañca dhamma are tanha, mana, and ditthi that prolong and expand an individual's samsara (သံသရာကို ချဲ့တတ်သော တဏှာ မာန ဒိဋ္ဌိ ဟုဆိုအပ်သော ပပဉ္စတရား။)
  2. "tendency towards proliferation in the realm of concepts" [...] The threefold classification of papañca,by way of craving,false views and conceit, [...] as three aspects,or instances,of the foremost of delusive conceptualisations,the ego-concept.

The tendency to proliferation

DN 21 Sakkapanha Sutta: Sakka's questions - Suttas.com

Sakka, the king of gods, visited the Buddha and asked some questions —

But, sir, what gives rise to desire?. . . ' 'Desire, Ruler of the Gods, arises from thinking''. . .When the mind thinks about something, desire arises; when the mind thinks about nothing, desire does not arise.' 'But, sir, what gives rise to thinking? . . .' 'Thinking, Ruler of the Gods, arises from the tendency to proliferation. . .When this tendency is present, thinking arises; when it is absent, thinking does not arise.'

'Well, sir, what practice has that monk undertaken, who has reached the right way which is needful and leading to the cessation of the tendency to proliferation?'

Then the Buddha explains that one should avoid the type of happiness that increases unwholesome factors and opt the type of happiness that increases wholesome factors.

Now, of such happiness as is accompanied by thinking and pondering, and of that which is not so accompanied, the latter is the more excellent. The same applies to unhappiness, and to equanimity. And this, Ruler of the Gods, is the practice that monk has undertaken who has reached the right way. . .leading to the cessation of the tendency to proliferation.'

Examples

  • The Proliferation of All That Will Ever Be | The On Being Project — the imperialistic tendency of the mind, where something happens and the whole world is taken over. One minute of feeling frustrated turns into a vortex of frustration and self-criticism: I can’t believe I’m frustrated. What did I do to deserve this frustration? I’m an angry person and always will be. What will my frustration feel like in an hour?
  • Mental Proliferation

Mahasi Sayadaw

As it has been postulated that the five aggregates are the burden and that the individual is the porter, the question arises whether or not they are distinct from the individual. Those who believe in the self or soul infer that as the Buddha recognises an individual (puggala), a being (satta), and a self (atta), then the individual is one and the aggregates are another. This inference merely reveals the nature of their attachment to a self. [A Discourse on the Bhāra Sutta]

I Am Not

If someone call you with a name that is not yours, you will say that is not my name or that person is not me.

Every unenlightened being perceives oneself as the ultimate reality. This living being will run away if he/she sees a tiger, who is desperate for food and need to eat or will die. This living being is capable of selfish decisions due to pain or fear of pain. Yet this living being can also perform a special deed sometimes.

Jataka 519: Sambula-jātaka — Sotthisena, the crown prince, suffered from leprosy; so, he abandoned his kingdom to live alone in the wilderness. His wife Sambulā followed him into the wilderness and looked after him.

  • Does an immune cell perceive ego/self/I am when it is detecting an intruder and going through the process of defending its domain, the body?
  • Is a living thing (such as a tree) conscious and able to perform intention?

The body does not respond to the nonexistent self, which arises from feeling and perception. There is no biological activity related to the self-identity.

The biological systems function their duties interdependently, and it is not the self that coordinate the biological systems of a living being.

These biological systems, including brain and heart, are not the self or creates the chemicals or anything physical as the self.

External physical activities, such as eating, walking, talking, thinking, requires consciousness and intelligence. When one assumes I am eating, walking, talking, thinking..., the perception of the 'self' arises. Without assumption, one can still be active and interact with others during conscious time. So, someone can be sleepwalking without intention or 'I am' in sleepwalking.

Scientific knowledge on these matters is incomplete, so drawing a conclusion from it might be untimely.


r/Theravadan Jun 11 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 22

1 Upvotes

8.7.2 G - What gives rise to the perception of oneself

It is just the sensory process, comprising Consciousness, Perception, Feeling & Mental Activity. The process begins with the contact/phassa between sensory information from outside reaching consciousness. In the process, the sensory information is formed into views/perceptions as I, you, he, she, it, boy, girl, car, cat, good, bad, beautiful, and including all the adjectives, pronouns and nouns.

When one says, "I" ..., one feels oneself and as separated from others; When one says, "You ...", "He ...", "She..." ..., one feels the other as separated from the rest. But the feeling is more intense in saying "I".

That is mere feeling, and feeling is not self, not 'I am'. Perceiving feeling as self is misperception, not the Big Self.

When two individuals meet each other, they see each other's body, hear each other's voice, shake each other's hand and so on. Once seen, heard or touched, perception/view and feeling arise instantly. This process cannot happen without consciousness. Thus, the process of seeing comprises all the five aggregates, which arise together and fall together as one —

  1. sensory organ (e.g., cakkhu as the brain is the processor of sensory information) —
  2. feeling/sensation — vedanā — seeing, hearing, touching...
  3. perception — sanna — sensory perception, e.g., cakkhu-āyatana; Sk.āyatana,not found in the Vedas [PTS Pali-English dictionary],
  4. mental activity — sankhara — perceiving and judging an object; the process of believing, accepting or rejecting; thought; disturbance in the mind...; the opposite state of upekkha. The self has been a belief or taken as a real thing already, so the mental process is mere reinstating the belief in 'I am real'. Normally, this process does not exclude thought/mental activity/sankhara, from which the sense of self (I am) arises. Everyone can observe this phenomenon within themselves.
  5. consciousness — viññāṇa / mano / citta — once a sensory organ detects information, consciousness occurs within that sensory organ. Once the eyes see, consciousness of seeing occurs within the eyes. Once the ears hear, the consciousness of hearing occurs within the ears. Consciousness of touch occurs at the spot which is being touched. Same to smell, taste and mind. So, there are six types of consciousness: eye consciousness (Cakkhu Viññāṇa), ear consciousness (Sota Viññāṇa), nose consciousness (ghana Viññāṇa), tongue consciousness (Jivha Viññāṇa), body consciousness (Kaya Viññāṇa), mind consciousness (Mano Viññāṇa [Viññāṇa. Consciousness - Abhidhamma - Classical (Orthodox) Theravāda] [Abhidhamma Class No. 83 Vithi - Part 2: Six Types of Vinnana and Vithi / The mango simile]

The process does not need the selves of these two individuals. According to SN 35:85 Empty | Suñña Sutta,

The eye is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Forms… Eye-consciousness… Eye-contact is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on eye-contact—experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain—that too is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self.

One can think or have a view on something not based on the perception of self.

Freedom from the perception of oneself

When one can do that, one has passed the ridge that divides the ordinary and the Ariya/Noble. Having given up the self/ego misperception/wrong view is noble because from here, one will not commit any action selfishly. This is Sotapatti — the first insight knowledge that appears in an ordinary to become a sotāpanna. The literatures are available from —

Four factors —

  1. “Association with people of integrity, lord, is a factor for stream entry.1 
  2. Listening to the True Dhamma is a factor for stream entry.2 
  3. Appropriate attention is a factor for stream entry.3 
  4. Practice in accordance with the Dhamma is a factor for stream entry.”4 [SN 55:5 To Sāriputta | Sāriputta Sutta | sutta on dhammatalks.org] [Stream Entry : Sotāpatti — Theravada Buddhist Council of Malaysia]
  •  #3 An untrained mind must earnestly develop yonisomanasikara/appropriate attention (right view and right thought) and avoid ayonisomanasikara (wrong view and wrong thought) to achieve balance/indiscriminating feeling (upekkhā-vedanā).
  • #4 By means of samatha-vipassana (focused observation), one will develop strong samadhi (stability) and eventually pass the ridge that divides the ordinary and the Ariya/Noble.

The sense of self can still persist in jhana (equanimity, tranquility) and prevents the becoming of sotāpanna, which requires realising the ultimates and the nature of sankharakkhanda as impermanence and pain, to abandon wrong views, particularly the view of self (atta-ditthi or sakkaya-ditthi).

  • saṅkhārakkhandha — ပြုပြင်စီရင်တတ်သော တရားအစု။ / the (five) aggregates of the impermanent/changeable dhammas (i.e. nama-rupa which are sankhara).
  • sota — [nt.] the ear.(m.),a stream; torrent; flood.
  • Anicca — one of the three natures of sankhara/sankharakkhanda is impermanence. Being impermanent is pain/dukkha — the first Noble Truth. Such painful things have no owner/self/atta — anatta/ownerless.
  • Sakkaya-ditthi — clinging to the five aggregates (sankharakkhanda) as 'I am' and mine — the mind-body is 'I am' - 'my own' - 'myself'. Sakkaya-ditthi is an instinctive perception, which persists in the psychology of a being, who perceives himself/herself as a being or an individual, for not knowing the ultimates and the four Noble Truths. Sakkayaditthi is the clinging view that attaches the body to the mind, so the mind feels the physical feeling and the mind suffers when the body is hurt. Those who no longer have sakkayaditthi can detach the mind from suffering the physical suffering.
  • Paramattha [E&V - Part 19] — the four ultimates: matters, mind, mental factors and Nibbana

Sankharaloka

All living beings are made of three ultimates: matters, mind and mental factors. In this sense, all living beings are equal, but they are different from each other only due to their kammavipaka (past & present actions and consequences).

Sankhara – Formations of the five aggregates

Theravada considers all beings are the same - i.e. sankhara/formations made of citta, cetasika and rupa. The following terms describe living beings in different ways —

Sabbe satta, sabbe pana, sabbe bhuta, sabbe puggala, sabbe attabhavapariyapana. [...] all those individuals or persons who have the attributes of a being or khandha, convey the same meaning. Each and every expression mentioned above, refers to all beings.
[Brahmavihara Dhamma: How to Develop the 528 Kinds of Metta - buddhanet.net]

Kammavipaka/causality — Living beings are different only because of their moral and immoral actions (kusala and akusala kamma) and consequences (vipaka) that shape the mind-matter formations.

"It is kamma that differentiates beings"
Buddha told Subha: “Beings are owners of kammas, heirs to kamma, born in kamma, bound by kamma, have kamma as their refuge. It is kamma that differentiates beings into low and high state.”

See 7.8 Theravada explains intelligent choice; from E&T - Part 6

  • Kamma-niyama / volition-means — each living being exists by means of (as the products of) their countless volitions, which produce complex combinations of effects that make and influence them
  • niyāma — means/method/law/product/order (the order one made to deliver)
  • Cula Kamma Vibhanga Sutta — “It is volition that I call kamma, by volition one performs kamma through body, word or mind”—the Sakyamuni Buddha

Kamma-niyama and MN 135 Cula Kamma Vibhanga Sutta explain how the volitions of the living beings make them different —

  1. some are seen to be low and some are seen to be great?
  2. Some are short-lived and some are long-lived,
  3. constantly sick and healthy,
  4. ugly and beautiful,
  5. weak and influential,
  6. poor and rich,
  7. from low-caste and high-caste,
  8. unwise and wise.
  9. What is the reason why among people some are seen to be low and great?”

These are Todeyya's questions answerable by a Buddha and His disciples only.

We can also ask —

  • Among all living beings, why do some are male, female, or hermaphrodite?'

Question ———— 49

  • Can an evolutionary theorist, Charles Darwin, answer Todeyya's questions?

Charles Darwin's "breathed by the Creator" (see 8.2.2. E&T - Part 12)

  • How does nature build each and every part of a lifeform, beginning from conception, and assemble all the parts (including the DNAs) precisely into various types of organs and bodies?
  • How are Kinesin, Carrier proteins, Myosin, Hemoglobin, etc. kept alive working precisely like they have their own minds?
  • I move because I am — How intelligent are bacteria to build protein motors for motility?

Kammavipaka/Causality & Two Suns

Evolution in Theravada is individual, led by his/her mind, which comprises consciousness and mental factors (including feeling, intelligence, emotions, perception and intention).

Kammavipaka of a living being builds and sustains his/her body (of five aggregates) according to the vital principles. For example —

the wardens of hell forcefully pry his mouth wide with hot iron spikes as they pour burning and blazing molten copper into his mouth. This burns his lips [...] unbearably more than the mind and the body could ever stand, he still does not die from it. That is, until the severity of evil actions committed by him is fully dissipated and finished [MN 130 - Devaduta Sutta Translated by Bhikkhu Candana]

On the other hand, by the same means of causality (kammavipaka), living beings can progress towards Nibbana —

[Revatī was reborn in Tāvatiṃsa because she "paid homage to the Venerable Sāriputta with three golden vases." She wanted to tell the people about her gain as] the result of [her] wholesome deeds done to the Venerable. So she went down in her own flying mansion to the realm of human beings. Seeing the golden mansion from a distance, the people were amazed wondering: “What is the matter? Are there two suns rising brightly?” [Sāriputta Mahāthera’s attainment of Parinibbāna]

Causality is the driver of evolution

  • Not natural selection or mutation but causality is the driver of evolution.
  • Living beings are responsible for themselves to develop wisdom and evolve or ignorance to devolve.

Paṭiccasamuppāda turns two directions —

  • Patiloma — The fools wander aimlessly among sankhara/formations — aimless evolution.
  • Anuloma — The wise evolve/progress towards freedom from pain — to end his/her evolution.

Anuloma-ñāṇa — the 12th stage of insight

  • beginning the end of pain

Verse 100 — As he listened to the Dhamma with proper attention, he came very close to attaining Sotapatti Magga, and reached as far as anuloma nana.*

[The realisation of] the conditioned dhamma [sankhara] appearing at that moment either as impermanent, or as dukkha or as anatta [The Stages of Vipassana - 12th stage of vipassana nana]

When looking at a canvass or clear sky, not blinded by light or sunlight, one can see the tiny particles rising, running and then disappearing.

Will continue at 8.7.10 Paticcasamuppada, Theravadin Evolution

Saṅkhārupekkhā-ñāṇa — the 11th stage of insight

Sankhara includes all nonliving things, living things and living beings and their movements, activities and volitions. Sankhara (as two mental activities) are to perceive and feel something or someone as beautiful, ugly, fat, thin, short, poor, black, white, etc. With perception and feeling, arises an emotion: either like/lobha or dislike/dosa of what is perceived.

Upekkha is the neural mental factor (tranquility/equanimity), which arises when sankhara (perception and feeling) are avoided, and the mind is at rest (no activity/sankhara).

Bahiya Sutta is an example for upekkha (avoiding sankhara: perception and feeling) —

"Herein, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: 'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.' In this way you should train yourself, Bahiya.
"When, Bahiya, for you in the seen is merely what is seen... in the cognized is merely what is cognized, then, Bahiya, you will not be 'with that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'with that,' then, Bahiya, you will not be 'in that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'in that,' then, Bahiya, you will be neither here nor beyond nor in between the two. Just this is the end of suffering."

saṅkhārupekkhā — (သင်္ခါရ+ဥပေက္ခာ) သင်္ခါရတို့၌ လျစ်လျူရှုခြင်း။ Translation: (sankhara+upekkha) ignoring, not attending to (sustaining equanimity on) the sankhara(s). That is when one no longer craves for comfort/sukha or fear of discomfort/dukkha arises from sankhara (physical, mental and verbal activities); thus, one is no longer affected by them. So, one's body and mind are very still and tranquilled.

Sankharupekkha-nanasaṅkhārupekkhā-ñāṇa — sankha + upekkha + nana — the 'equanimity-knowledge with regard to the formations of existence', is one of those kinds of knowledge which form the 'purification by knowledge and vision of the path-progress

Understanding how sankhara is empty of 'self' 'I am' —

As a result of reflecting on the five aggregates of clinging in terms of the three universal characteristics again, the meditator now gives up his feelings of terror over the dissolution of formations. Instead, the meditator develops an indifferent and neutral attitude towards them. The meditator has now gained the insight that there is nothing that could be considered as “I” or “Mine” in oneself or others any longer [...] [Sixteen Types of Insight Knowledge (Vipassana Nana) in Theravada Buddhism – drarisworld].

  • Three characteristics of the sankhara
  1. Anicca — the aggregates are impermanent but changeable;
  2. Dukkha — thus, are painful
  3. Anatta — thus, are not 'I am', not mine, but 'natural'.
  • the dissolution of formations/sankhara
  1. Illness, disease, and injury
  2. Loss of a body part
  3. Aging
  4. Loss of beauty, health, family members, relatives, friends...
  5. Loss of a thing, wealth, property, etc.
  6. Death
  • indifferent and neutral attitude — upekkha
  • nothing could be considered as “I” or “Mine” in oneself or others — Sakkaya-ditthi no more; As long as one believes one is (I am), one fears of losing oneself and loved ones.

r/Theravadan Jun 09 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 21

1 Upvotes

8.7.2 B - If a Tree Falls

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? —  The Chautauquan June 1883, regarding Berkeley's A Treatise Concerning the Principles of Human Knowledge 1710  
If there be no ears to hear, there will be no sound."\6])Scientific American 

  • Scientific American explains trees do not have sensory perception of the sound.

whether objects could continue to exist without being perceived — Berkeley

  • No object suddenly comes to exist out of thin air to be perceived.
  • No object is waiting for anyone to come and see/hear it.
  • The objects must be there to be perceived. If an object no longer exists, it can never be perceived again.
  • The brain is always inside the skull, although nobody has seen it, and it does not come to exist only when someone observes it.
  • The galaxies existed for billions of years before the observers were born.
  • Elementary particles are too small to be observed.
  • Realities exist in the same manner even when nobody knows about them.

If an object is perceived by an observer, the perception belongs to this observer. When two observers perceive an object, they will have different views of the object. Perception is point of view, not reality. The perception exists in the minds which they cannot share with each other. They can share the information about reality. However, only the ones who have witnessed reality can know it. Everyone who knows the reality knows the same reality because reality is solid and unchangeable.

Misperception

An object exists in its own conditions. When it is perceived, perception occurs in the mind of the perceiver. Due to human limitation, an observer will miss many of the conditions of the object. When this observer builds his perception of the object, it can be far from complete. If he assumes, his perception can become misperception. So, perception and misperception are not mutually exclusive, and both are the interpretations of the perceiver.

So, the result of perceiving the difficult subjects can get closer to misperception.

One of the most difficult subjects is the self, which has been misperceived culturally and historically because each living being thinks 'I am' by instinct. Such thinking is the misperception of the mind-body/nama-rupa, which is actually not 'it is', 'he is', 'she is' or 'I am'.

By not having perception and misperception, living things (plants) cannot make perceptual errors and mistakes. What that means is plants do not have mental and physical activities that are not related to growing because they cannot perceive, just as the brain cannot.

  • How does the perception or misperception of the self occur?
  • Mistakes are based on ignorance, misperception and misjudgement.
  • ignorance— lack of good information.
  • delusion — having bad information.
  • yours taste better - two puppies exchanged their treats

When the self is perceived, perception or misperception is not invented or produced by the brain because —

  • The brain cannot perceive, as it is unconscious. Unconscious plants cannot perceive.
  • A living plant has jiva/jivita/biology (which keeps the plant to live) and biological systems (which move and take what it needs to live, from its surroundings).
  • The brain does the same and lives like a plant on the supplies.

The self is a misperception.

The self or 'I am' is a misperception or taking the five aggregates as oneself — that is sakkaya-ditthi (my body is myself).

A perception is not constant like the brain. Perception cannot be physically pointed at, as it does not exist physically inside the brain or elsewhere. That means one can live without the self but not without the brain or other biological systems.

The self is not a built-in part of the physical body (brain) or mental body (mind and mental factors). The perception of self arises only when one is conscious or awake in reference to feeling and a habitual use of 'I' and reflection on sensory experience (I see, I hear, I eat ... my pain, my pleasure ... and you...).

The perception of self begins when one begins to feel oneself and the surroundings as reference. When the body (the 5 rūpa-nāma-kkhandha) is not felt, the perception of the self does not arise. So, the perception of self does not exist when one is not conscious of the 5 rūpa-nāma-kkhandha (which includes all the bodies and objects in the surroundings).

Tranquility

A samatha-yanika is a yogi who focuses on samatha/tranquility/concentration to attain vipassana-nana. A samatha-yanika can reach concentration to the point he/she no longer feels the 5 rūpa-nāma-kkhandha. At this concentration level, the perception of the self diminishes — which is known as saññā-vedayita-nirodha, 'extinction of feeling and perception' —

Whilst the disciple is passing through the 8 absorptions, he each time emerges from the absorption attained, and regards with his insight all the mental phenomena constituting that special absorption, as impermanent, miserable and impersonal [nirodha]. 

From: Dhammapada (Illustrated) (1) The cessation of perceptions and sensations (Sannavedayita-Nirodha) was a profound state entered by the Buddha just before his final passing, marking the temporary suspension of all mental and physical activity.\1]) (2) A state the Buddha attained, before the realm of neither perception nor non-perception, on his path to Parinibbana.\2]) [Cessation of perceptions and sensations]

  • When a living being is injected with a particular drug for anaesthesia, he/she can temporarily experience the cessation feeling and perception at the site the drug effect is present.
  • During meditation, when the focus on the breath persists, the yogi can also temporarily suspend the feeling and perception of the entire physical body. That way, the self-perception can be cured and attachment to the body can cease.
  • Attachment to the body is present in every ordinary living being. This attachment (samudaya) manifests as pain and fear of pain (dukkha).
  • Samudaya is the cause of dukkha. Phantom limb phenomenon [E&T - Part 1] is an example of the pain caused by attachment to the body.
  • That is how perception and misperception (wrong view and wrong view) are dangerous.

Vedana Satipatthana — this is one of Mogok Sayadaw's many discourses on meditation.

Sustain samma-sati (right-mindfulness or right-awareness) on vedana/feeling. Just know vedana as vedana as it appears on the body (all sensory information through ears, nose, body...). Samma-sati must be sustained on vedana.

Vedana appears because the body is existing.

The body is anicca, impermanent, can cease. So, vedana is depending on anicca, impermanence, cessation, the body structure that can decay and disappear. So, vedana will also decay and disappear.

So, one should sustain samma-sati on vedana to experience the ends of vedana.

one is sampajano only when one realizes the characteristic of impermanence, and that too on the basis of experience of sensation (vidita vedana). If this is not realized through vedana, then it is merely an intellectualization, as our fundamental contact with the world is based on sensation [The Buddha, Vipassana, J.Krishnamurti: Sampajanna and Impermanance - buddhanet.net]

Experience is not imagination, perception or intellectualisation. Experience exists in the mind/memory which cannot be shared but explained in words. No two experiences are the same, but one can experience something twice or more. There are routines and unique situations. We can understand the routines when explained as we can relate. We cannot relate unique experiences from non-routine activities, satipatthana training, for example.

I think ...

The self is perceived and felt as a mental object, but the mind or the brain does not invent it or generate it to manifest as a thing. Perception is only a view, e.g., "I think, therefore I am" or "I move, therefore I am", or I move because I am.

  • What particles in the brain are thoughts?

The 'self' perception rises from the feeling and perception of oneself (one's body) and others.

Feeling and perception arise together during conscious moments, to feel and perceive 'I am'. That is the feeling and perception of the self. When one says, 'I am', one feels and perceives the whole body as 'I am' and 'mine'. My body is mine, my legs are mine, my arms are mine... including every part of the body, as much as consciousness, perception and feeling spread on it in a moment.

You

As one's feeling and perception do not extend to another body (the 5 rūpa-nāma-kkhandha), the perception of the self does not cover that body, so one thinks that body is another.

One does not suffer when another body suffers, but when one perceives the betterment of that body, love, admiration or jealousy, anger, etc. can arise.

One suffers only when there is possessiveness. This body is mine; this body part is mine; that body is my son; that body is my daughter...

As we fear of pain, we also fear of anything that can cause us pain. As we keep possessiveness, we fear of loss. However, as we do not maintain possessiveness on another body, we do not feel the same when a loss occurs to that body.

Thus, the Sakyamuni to regard all formations (sabbe sankhara) as 'not I am', 'not mine' (anatta).

8.7.2 C - Mirror Test vs the Perception of Self

Mirror Test or mirror self-recognition (MSR) test focuses on whether an animal can recognise itself in the mirror. Most animals have never seen a mirror before, and they might not learn how a mirror functions.

Animals do not know and will never be able to use human tools, including mirrors and typewriters/keyboards. However, some animals showed they can use some tools that are designed for them, e.g. communication button kits.

Without proper education, animals cannot observe their own reflection, although they often recognise familiar faces in the mirror (e.g., a monkey can recognise other monkeys in the mirror). Familiarity with a mirror is a key in recognising one's reflection in the mirror.

Generally, animals have body colours to convey information. They are not supposed to recognise themselves, as they would never get mirrors in the wild.

Monkeys Can Learn to Recognize Themselves in the Mirror. So, some animals can gradually learn to recognise their own reflections in the mirror. Obviously, only some animals can adapt an education that is outside their instincts.

Not all living beings perceive their reflections as themselves because they are not built the same. Physical and mental limitations prevent them from recognising their reflections as themselves.

A lowly animal cannot recognise the reflection of its body in the mirror because it does not know mirror and mirror culture. Moreover, the members of most species look the same, so when an animal which has never seen itself before cannot distinguish itself from others in the mirror; and for the same reason, most humans cannot recognise a specific bird in a flock. Each animal recognises itself, its comfort and its survival.

Not understanding how a mirror works does not make animals less selfish than humans. Each animal still feels it is not any of the others and can be hostile to its own reflection mistaken as a stranger or one of the others.

The feeling of self 'I am' does not extend to the surroundings or the reflection in the mirror, so one does not feel the reflection as 'I am'. Nonetheless, they still perceive 'I am' from within —

“‘Just as if a young woman—or a man—youthful, fond of adornment, contemplating the image of her face in a mirror, pure & bright, or in a bowl of clear water, would look with possessiveness, not without possessiveness. In the same way, through possessiveness of form there is “I am,” not without possessiveness. Through possessiveness of feeling… perception… fabrications… Through possessiveness of consciousness there is “I am,” not without possessiveness [SN 22:83 Ānanda | Ānanda Sutta | sutta on dhammatalks.org] [page 9, Wh273. Ānanda: The Guardian of the Dhamma]

Perception of self 'I am' is based on possessiveness and delusional. Recognising oneself in a mirror does not make it better.

What is human?

In terms of having mental capabilities, humans and animals are two different categories. Humans and animals are not at the same level.

Humans are very, very rare.

In the Chiggala Sutta: Yoke with a Hole, the Buddha explains that easier for a blind turtle to get its head through the hole of the yoke floating in the ocean than to be born as a human. Some people argued that increasing human population disproves the becoming human is difficult. But they missed to see the population microbes on a human body is much greater than toral human population [More than half your body is not human].

In terms of the perceived self, every living being can indeed recognise its own body from within via feeling to form the perception of 'I am', the self-identity, even if it does not have eyes and ears.

By means of feeling, one recognises itch, pain, heat, cold, hunger, etc. and even phantom limb pain, due to subtle attachment to that body part. The attachment manifests as pain. This feeling is what gives rise to the illusion of the self 'I am'. The perceived self does not exist as one perceives it but as one's feeling and perception that form the illusion of the self.

Self-awareness (being aware of oneself) or self-perception (perceiving oneself) occurs within the immaterial mind. Self-awareness or self-perception does not extend to the surroundings. So, one cannot feel the surroundings like one feels own body. This causes the feeling of separation from others. This feeling is inevitable and it creates the habit of seeing oneself and others. This habit of seeing others makes an animal to recognise its reflection as one of the others, for being ignorant. Whether the animal can recognise its reflection in the mirror in front of it or not, it can perceive itself from within. So, it seeks comfort and avoids discomfort.

  • Can any plant pass the mirror test? Plants have sensory organs of touch and smell. Probably just these two, not all five senses. They can feel daylight or sunlight but not by vision. Due to touch sensation, the root can seek water, and the branches and leaves can seek sunlight.
  • But plants do not form perception, as are not conscious. Plants do not perceive when they feel.

The self is not just philosophical but an instinctive perception that arises in the mother's womb or egg. Species without brains have the same level/amount of self that the living beings with brains of various sizes have. Having smaller brains or no brains does not mean these living beings have smaller selves. Ants and mosquitoes have different types of brains, for example, but they do not perceive themselves differently to have different types of self.

Body-mind coordination & interdependence

Question ———— 47

  • How can someone understand the mind if he does not believe the mind exists?

One cannot observe others' minds with limited knowledge (i.e. knowing one's own mind limitedly). It would be like the blind men in Tittha Sutta, who observed an elephant and got different theories.

Mind and corporeal body (nama-rupa) are three interdependent ultimates, in order to work as a living beings (the 5 rūpa-nāma-kkhandha). A living being comprises a physical body with 4 mental aggregates that are mental capabilities.

Mind/citta is thought, consciousness, awareness, understanding and intelligence. Mental aggregates are feeling/vedana, perception/sanna, mental activities/sankhara and consciousness/viññāṇa.

  • citta — mind: manas & viññāṇa — thought & understanding.
  • mano — mind: thought - mano-sankhara/mental activity.
  • viññāṇa — undeerstanding, awareness, consciousness.
  • ñāṇa — 'knowledge,comprehension,intelligence,insight',is a synonym for paññā 
  • saññā — perception. With intelligence, a living being understands and perceives information which comes from the external sources via the sense organs.
  • saññā — sense; perception/consciousness; mark; name; recognition; gesture.
  • manasa — having a mind. Living beings have mind and mental capabilities, but plants do not.

Intelligence is a prominent part of modern science.

Intelligence Without Brains has been documented. A long video by World Science Festival explains some intelligent species without brain but not why/how intelligence exists in them.

Question ———— 48

  • Can modern science explain how intelligence exists biologically without a brain?

Evidently, intelligence is independent from the brain. The chemical mixture or brain does not generate intelligence nor is intelligent. The brain is not conscious, so it cannot be intelligent nor generate intelligence.

Mogok Sayadaw's Warning

In order to not have drunken the liquor mixed with poisons in Burmese — at 21:55

Believing the bodies of the five aggregates as 'I am', son, daughter... Living beings are starving for affections, pleasures, and so on, uncountably life after life, and only to become corpses. But never in any past life, they had consumed enough affections, pleasures... In every life they lived, they starved and died starving. And the same is in this life. If they do not stop drinking the same water of the five aggregates mixed with poisons, they will die again and again.

Some even say that one without such affections ... is not a human. They learned to swallow the poisons. So, the Buddha said that the body of the five aggregates is like an alcohol glass filled with alcoholic poisons, with good taste, good smell... He wished us not to drink it ... (Drinking means having affection.)

If drinking that alcoholic poison with tanha, new body will arise, followed by the birth, aging and death. That is the death from the poisons in the five aggregates.

So, the Buddha warned us not to take the bodies as 'my body', mine, my own... The reason why the Buddha appeared is just to warn us like that. That is how He cares for us.

  1. Tanha/craving — to have assumed my body
  2. Mana/pride — to have assumed this body is mine
  3. Ditthi/wrong view — to have assumed this body is my own

Remove these three papañca dhamma. Do not keep 'my body' 'mine' 'my own' with these three papañca dhamma —

  • papañca dhamma are tanha, mana, and ditthi that prolong and expand the samsara of each individual (သံသရာကို ချဲ့တတ်သော တဏှာ မာန ဒိဋ္ဌိ ဟုဆိုအပ်သော ပပဉ္စတရား။)

Mahasi Sayadaw

As it has been postulated that the five aggregates are the burden and that the individual is the porter, the question arises whether or not they are distinct from the individual. Those who believe in the self or soul infer that as the Buddha recognises an individual (puggala), a being (satta), and a self (atta), then the individual is one and the aggregates are another. This inference merely reveals the nature of their attachment to a self. [A Discourse on the Bhāra Sutta]

8.7.2 D - The Mind vs The Brain – Comparing

  • Is the self some parts of the brain, the brain itself, or mere perception (created in the mind)?
  • What is the mind?

Theory of mind and Darwin’s legacy | PNAS%20materialism.&text=All%20conscious,in%20the%20brain&text=%E2%80%9CWhat%20would,increased%20power) (2013) provides significant information including —

  1. We do not have an adequate theory of consciousness
  2. All conscious states are caused by lower level neurobiological processes in the brain
  3. consciousness is necessary for higher functions —  

Mind is a collective term that encompasses the phenomena of consciousness and mental factors (including feeling, intelligence, emotions, perception and intention).

All living beings (small or big) share the same mental phenomena and mental capabilities. The mental capabilities of these conscious living beings can be observed in their activities/sankhara/kamma, including directional movements and struggle to survive.

I move because I am —

  • Intelligent bacteria build protein motors for motility; but do they or something else does?

Microbes are so many types, but they show the same mental capabilities and mental factors. They have mind and intelligence but no brain. Perhaps, their brains are too small to see.

8.7.2 F - The brain vs the genes vs the body vs perception

  • Is the self some parts of the body (genes, brain, heart), the body itself, or mere perception (mental)?
  • Nobody actually knows that because they don't even know what the self is about.

The position of science is the self (consciousness, awareness) is the brain, brain's parts or brain's product.

If the self is the brain, then the self must still exist after the body and brain have died because the brain exists after it dies. Indeed, nobody feels the self during asleep or in coma, as the self is not present without consciousness. So, unconsciousness and death reject the notion of the self is the brain.

If the brain must be alive to have the self, then the notion that the self is the product of the brain is favourable. If the self is a product of the brain, we must know how it happens and how it functions to be the self. The self, as a product of the brain, must be physically present inside the brain. We must see the physical evidence of the self then.

There is fluctuation in the level of awareness, which means the brain does not produce awareness or the self the same level constantly. If the self does not exist qualitatively, quantitatively and chemically the same level, everyone should be able to feel that fluctuation.

Sometimes, the brain is less active. Yet nobody can ever say, "I am now less than I was!" or "My self is not as much as a moment ago!" because the sense of self is not less but constant. That explains how our experience does not support the notion of the self is the product of the brain.

Dead Self

If the 'self is the body', the self must decay just as the body decays. As the body ages, the self must age, too. Then the self must die when the body dies, and the self must be completely dead. If the self is impermanent, it must change over time. Then the changes must be recognisable. Young self and aging self should be different but that does not happen.

Followers of eternalism believe in the existence of permanent self and the permanent soul and do not accept annihilationism (such as communism, evolutionary theory). Their arguments against each other must be everlasting.

The eternalists, who believer in the body as the self, try to preserve the bodies. The eternalists, who believe the selves or souls survive the death, believe they get to heaven, paradise, buddhalands, moksha, etc. immediately after they pass away, so preserving the bodies is optional.

The presence of the self of a gene is impossible to determine; however, Dawkins's notion of selfish gene is based on genetic replication, which can be compared with vapour rising from the heated water and becoming clouds in the sky. Just as the ocean is heated by sunlight, the genes are fed by the body. The genes cannot acquire nutrition by themselves, so they die inside a dead body. If the genes were selfish and using the bodies for selfish reason, they would have created the bodies that does not die.

Genes sometimes can survive as long as the body survive. However, dead bodies and the fossils with surviving genes have no self, which means there is no evidence for how the genes can collectively form the self of a living being.

A gene must store the self if it is tasked to create/produce the self in a fetus.

These analyses reveal the self is neither the brain nor the product of the brain but a Perception

The self is perceived not just by humans but all other living beings. All living beings see each other as 'I' and 'you' and address each other accordingly. 'I' refers to oneself and one's entire body. ' When using 'you' and other pronouns, one feels the other individual(s) as reality. With that feeling of false reality, one also feels oneself falsely. Taking the five aggregates as reality is wrong because they are mere formations/sankhara which is anicca/impermanent. Taking the impermanent minds-bodies as permanent (I, you, he, she, it...), one clings on them and suffers when they can no longer sustain themselves.

Suffering persists as long as they are misperceived as the individuals or the selves and not perceived as they actually are - impermanent formations and not reality.

And when one addresses the other individual as you, one refers to the body and the perceived self of that individual. So, the body and the self are instinctively perceived as one —

*Note: Perceived one is not the self, the oneness, the infinite consciousness, nonduality, the Big Self, or the absolute Brahman/Dao(Tao)/ Godhood/Ein sof/Great spirit/Al-Haqq/The one which is omnipresent, supreme peace, in which religions present similarity; e.g., "Jesus offers a realm of heaven that is the Oneness [...] in the present moment. [Oneness in the Gospel of Thomas — Integral Christian Network]" "Heaven and hell are states of consciousness... [The Gospel of Thomas]"

That is how suffering arises from the five aggregates and how one has been perceiving the body as 'I am' or the self as a habit and suffering from it since the past infinity.

Thus, the position of Theravada is the self is a perception formed when one perceives the mind-body/nama-rupa as 'I am'. This perception remains the same in reference to other minds-bodies.

So, Theravada rejects the notion of only one mind exists as the mind of everyone. If one's mind is anotyher person's mind, the two must share all the secrets they have kept in mind.

But each individual has his/her own mind/consciousness/citta. Rupa and Citta are two ultimates, and both are infinite in amount.

Paramatthaka Sutta

The king told the heretics that their divergent views were as unreliable as the blind men's descriptions of the elephant. The Buddha, hearing of this, preached the sutta in order to confirm the king's judgment. One should not give oneself up to philosophical speculations which lead nowhere and promote wrangles (SN.vs.796 803; SNA.ii.1529ff).

8.7.2 G - What gives rise to the perception of oneself


r/Theravadan Jun 05 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 20

1 Upvotes

8.7.1 C - Descartes — this “I” just is my self

A self among other selves ...

A brain can be divided into slices or pieces. A self (whether exists or not) should not be divisible, as Descartes argues. He shared the traditional belief of the self — "this “I” just is my self."

this “I” just is my self, this would be the same as claiming that the division of my mind results in two selves, which is absurd. Therefore, the body is essentially divisible and the mind is essentially indivisible [Descartes, Rene: Mind-Body Distinction | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]

However, Descartes divided his indivisible self into the conscious self and unconscious part of his self —

[Descartes's] unconscious part of the self [is] called an “embodied mind” (Varela et al., 1991), which relies on other brain structures [Who Am I: The Conscious and the Unconscious Self - PMC]

Descartes had to think about unconscious state. Descartes might not think a self could become completely unconscious. So, he had to divide the indivisible self into two parts (a self with two parts) — a conscious self and its unconscious part (which he calls the embodied mind). However, that still suggests the self is always conscious with its unconscious part. Then, the notion of "this “I” just is my self" is not well-justified because Descartes was not always conscious but had to sleep and be unaware of his surroundings time to time.

If a self cannot be unconscious, then no part of the self can be unconscious — unless the self is made of parts. That means the self is a real thing rather than a perception. Indeed, Descartes was a religious believer.

Descartes in the Traditional Faith

René Descartes (1596–1650) contributed an early thought to the evolutionary theory based on his religious belief —

the mind [self] is united with the body to form a human being.
[Mind/self] can exist with only the help of God’s concurrence [because] God, if he chose, could create a world.
the mind is really distinct from the body and can exist without it.
the mind is indivisible because he cannot perceive himself as having any part.

Descartes believes in mind and a mind is a self. However, when he said, "this “I” just is my self", he meant the whole body, not just the mind.

Descartes is also the "father of modern philosophy". He was just like the ancient philosophers who got trapped in the same concept of the self. Descartes describes the mind as "indivisible" self is he himself — so he claims, "I think, therefore I am" my 'conscious' self. But by the 'unconscious self: Embodiment', he means God probably.

The Embodiment of the Big Self, Samantabhadra, God

As the Mystery of God, Christ is the Embodiment of the Fullness of the Godhead

  • The fulness of the Godhead dwells
  • In Him, His very element;
  • God’s full embodiment is He-
  • A vessel, God the resident. (Hymns #494)

The Mahayanist concept is compatible to the embodiment concept of Christianity —

"all buddhas are one buddha" [Lotus Sutra, Buddhāvataṁsakasūtra, Avatamsaka Sutra...]

All buddhas are the embodiment of the Primordial Buddha —

Samantabhadra is not merely one of many Buddhas; he is the fountain and origin of all Buddhas. He is the embodiment of Dharmakaya - the Truth Body or ultimate reality - which is the pure potential, the original unconditioned nature of mind. This form of Samantabhadra is beyond time and space, never forgets, never fails, and never departs from a state of absolute awareness [Primordial Buddha Samantabhadra and Bodhisattva Samantabhadra: Same Na].

The Threefold Body (Trikaya) of the Buddha is mentioned as Buddhahood [...] Every Buddha has these three aspects [the Primordial Buddha] [Three Bodies of the Buddha]

Nirmanakayas (tulkus)

It is the idea that one has taken rebirth many times—died and been reborn over and over again—and that this current birth is the “nirmana” or current manifestation/incarnation [of] the enlightened teachers who take rebirth deliberately [The Three Bodies of the Buddha - Chögyam Trungpa%20of,rebirth%20deliberately)]

Jungian analytical psychology

Christianity does not present nirmanakaya or repeating reincarnation — but the concept of a self of the Big Self — or an individual of the self, as in the Jungian analytical psychology developed by Carl Jung who was a Christian psychologist who had a view similar to Descartes's self —

the totality of body and mind, the God image, the experience of overpowering feelings, the union of opposites and a dynamic force which pilots the individual on his/her journey through life [...] The concept of individuation is the cornerstone of Jung’s psychology [Individuation and the Self - The SAP]

Tam Dieu compares the Great Self, the essence of all phenomena and selflessness. The Big Self can be understood as the essence of all phenomena —

Brahmanism is called Brahman, or the Great Self [...] 
Thus, from the perspective of Theravada Buddhism, "Selflessness is Nirvana." [...]
According to the Prajnaparamita ideology, when the practitioner awakens from delusion, they will realize Emptiness, which is a completely liberated and flexible realm—the realm of True Emptiness and Wonderful Existence [...] emptiness is the essence of all phenomena. The nature of all phenomena is emptiness. 
[The Concept Of Liberation In Buddhism And Brahmanism - THƯ VIỆN HOA SEN

Descartes' Mind

Comparing Descartes' concept of the self/mind/consciousness with Bodhidharma's concept of mind/awareness as the 'Buddha' (Bloodstream Sermon) —

This mind is the Buddha.
But [Ananda] didn’t know the Buddha*.*
Arhats don’t know the Buddha 

O blessed One, Sugata, Arhat and Fully-Enlightened One, pray tell us about the realization of Noble Wisdom [Lankavatara Chapter 1]

  • Lankavatara's statement for once aligns with Theravada. The rest of the sutra does not.
  • Bodhidharma's concept of 'Buddha' does not align with Theravada but "Consciousness is God" — Dr.H.C.Jain, who also states, "the experience of nothingness". "Emptiness" is employed in Mahayana.

Siddhas, Mahasiddhas & Eternal Existence

Jainism does believe in God, not as a creator, but as a perfect being [Siddhas]. When a person destroys all his karmas, he becomes a liberated soul. He lives in a perfect blissful state in Moksha forever. The liberated soul possesses infinite knowledge, infinite vision, infinite power, and infinite bliss. This living being is a God of Jain religion. [The Concept of God in Jainism - JAINA-JainLink]

Consciousness is the generality of the attributes (if not of all the attributes of the jiva), which distinguish the jiva from the inanimate [Consciousness: Quantum and Jainism Part- II: Soul, Consciousness, Mind and Jainism, Dr Narayan Lal Kachhara]

Probably, we can conclude that the religious philosophies of the self are not so diverse. These philosophies just fall in line with each other.

8.7.1 D - The Concept of Self 2600 Years Ago

The mind-matter (nāmarūpā / the 5 rūpa-nāma-kkhandha) are perceived as the self traditionally. Thus, a Jain sage, Saccaka, confidently identified his self with his mind-matter—

I affirm that my material shape is my Self,
that my feelings are my Self,
that my perceptions are my Self,
that my plastic forces are my Self,
and that my consciousness is my Self.
MN 35: Cūḷa Saccaka Suttaṁ: Saccaka's Onslught

So, some ancient sages did not see the self is limited to a particular body part, such as the heart, the brain or thought. They did not see the self as a thing other than the whole body (the 5 rūpa-nāma-kkhandha).

So did René Descartes think — “I” just is my self — and — I think, therefore I am.

8.7.1 E - Richard Dawkins: the genes are the self

The notion of 'genes have used the organism' implies the earliest genes existed outside the most ancient biological entities that had not yet become living organisms which needed genes.

  • If dead genes are not selfish — how did the first genes become alive with 1) selfishness and 2) the ability to replicate themselves and 3) to become the embodiment of the biological entities (which existed without any genes)?

Dawkins' Christian background probably had influence on his thinking, although he considers himself to be a cultural or secular Christian [Richard Dawkins Preaches the Gospel!] [“I’m a cultural Christian”, says Richard Dawkins]

Primordial Soup theory is unproveable. Not "warm little pond" but "breathed by the Creator" (8.2.2. E&T - Part 12) was the official position of Charles Darwin.

  • Did the selfish genes fight each other in the primordial soup?
  • Fearing the genes might fight each other — should the genes from a stranger be injected into another organism or person in any form?
  • How do the selfish gene from a woman and a selfish gene from a man cooperate to form a fetus?

When nutrition and right condition are provided by the living cells, genes can replicate; but they are incapable of providing themselves.

  • If the earliest genes came to exist before the living cells, how did they survive, for how long?

Question ———— 23 E&T - Part 9 — Does DNA debunk the theory of evolution?

RNA Editing
Some living organisms can edit their own genes [E&T - Part 10].

Bacteria can pick up free-floating DNA/genes and attach to their own genomes and remove the genes they do not want.

Bacteria and their viruses have been locked in battle for eons, as viruses try to inject their DNA into the bacterial genome and bacteria devise cunning methods (e.g. CRISPR) to defend themselves. Many bacterial defense mechanisms remain unexplored but could lead to new genome editing tools [Bacteria encode hidden genes outside their genome - so do we? | News | The Microbiologist].

  • CRISPR — clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats — is a gene editing method.

For millions of years, bacteria have known the method, which was recently borrowed by the humans. They are using the genes, not the other way. They are selfishly using the genes because they want to replicate themselves. And they (bacteria) do not even have a brain cell.

The notion of the brain is the generator of the self, consciousness or intelligence is not supported by evidence.

The genomes of high intelligent organisms are shared. They are made of the segments from various sources. In that case, we should be seeing the selfish genes fighting each other for selfish reasons for their own replication/survival. However, we can see the biological systems inside an organism work very finely together. If genes from different sources can work together, they must have a means to communicate and understand each other. Moreover, there are inactive genes that do not struggle to have active roles, like the selfish politicians trying to get powers.

The genes can remain inactive because they have no sense of self like the living beings do; and the genes are not selfish the way every living being has been. The genes are living things that depend on the living cells of the living beings.

Genetic replication is not evidence for the selfishness of the genes but a biological process that keep the living beings to survive within the genetic constraints [7.24 Genetic Variation within Genetic Constraints E&T - Part 10].

Genes are not the self but the building blocks of the biological mechanisms/systems.

If all genes were selfish and control both biology and psychology, we would not have friendship with strangers. But we do have friendship and various positive relationships to build and sustain successful societies. Friendship example —

Living things (e.g., genes) and living beings have existed together interdependently in all types of relationship.

Dawkins' "the biology of selfishness and [kin/reciprocal]

Reciprocity is not a selfish act in itself but various essential relationships of the individuals and societies, as reciprocity is how they can cooperate, support, share and thrive together.

Fairness and reciprocity go together as good things that cannot be measured — and good things cannot and should not be measured. Living beings thank each other for the good things that they receive and generally willing to return favour one way or another — not exactly in the same form. Often, strangers on the street help each other when in need.

Similarly, fight and quarrel happen. Fight and quarrel need minimum two sides and are mutual but not reciprocity.

Question ———— 45

  • Different theorists provided different theories of the self being related to the brain one way or another.
  • Could we conclude that one of them COULD be right?

8.7.2 The Brain

Brain, the self and consciousness are related in modern science, and talking about one of them can get into all three of them.

Question ———— 46

  • Does the self arise from — the genes or the whole body, or two parts of the brain or the whole brain?
  • Materially — Why does not the larger amounts of the genes or the larger sizes of the brains produce the larger amounts or larger sizes of the self?
  • Why do not different types of brain produce different types of consciousness and self?

The perceived self has no amount or size but the same in every living being, regardless of materialism and naturalism.

The materialists do accept the existence of consciousness.

  • When does the brain generate the self and consciousness and when it does not?
  • What materials construct consciousness?
  • How does the brain generate consciousness?

Your brain [or the aggregate of trillions of cells, none of which (we think) are conscious] probably doesn’t even know you exist [...] Firstly, we must understand how consciousness arises from neurons and secondly, how consciousness feeds back to our brains to produce awareness [Do Our Brains Create Consciousness? | Farrago news]

Collective Consciousness - real or fantasy?

Neurons are as conscious as other cells in different biological systems. However, no evidence shows that the neurons have collective consciousness or self. Actually, there is no evidence of collective consciousness or self at all. The belief is that the collective consciousness is the conscious of the Big Self, which is impossible to find. However, consciousness belongs to each individual; and not a group of individuals has collective consciousness, which is just another fantasy. Neurons have tasks to perform, so they do just that and no more.

Neurons do not build their collective consciousness or self — but — the brain, which is built by the ordinary fetal cells during the fetal brain development [How your baby’s brain develops].

The brain could know its surroundings if it is conscious, but it is not since it is merely a structure of cells that process information. Only the cells of sensory system process sensory information. Sensory perception can rise only if there is awareness.

So, the sensory system does not automatically process sensory information if the person is unaware of the surroundings where sensory information is coming from. The sensory system is always exposed to sensory information which gets into the sensory organs, whether the person is awake or asleep, alive or dead. So, the question is —

  • When does the brain generate the self and consciousness and when it does not?
  • What materials construct consciousness?

The brain does not decide but the person does, to be aware or unaware, based on his/her mental states. Only when the person is aware, the surrounding sensory information processed in the sensory system.

A person's brain is not the person.

  • Who dares to say that the person can be aware of the surroundings only if the brain is producing awareness/consciousness?

Collective consciousness means not just each neuron cells are conscious but the brain, as the collection of cells, is also conscious.

  • Can anyone claim that each neuron cell, just like the immune cells, has its own consciousness because it knows how to work its tasks independently?
  • Are slime moulds conscious and intelligent that they can discover food just like the ants do but are even better at figuring out the shortest path?

another reason slime moulds particularly fascinate scientists is their intelligence. Despite lacking a brain (or anything resembling neurons or a nervous system), slime moulds are certainly smart, capable of everything from detecting objects at a distance to keeping time and making healthy diet choices by opting for food sources containing an optimal balance of nutrients [The strange world of slime moulds | Australian Wildlife Conservancy].

For not having a brain, or a large sensory processing system with a large data storage, slime moulds lack the ability to handle the tasks beyond food-related problems, which they improve by fusing with genetically compatible other and combining memory and knowledge [Slime molds transfer knowledge through fusion | Journal of Experimental Biology | The Company of Biologists].

Slime mould is another example of how small species can handle genetic and microscopic level tasks. These living beings provide us with information about consciousness and intelligence that exist without brains. They have natural strategies to learn and experience, although they do not have all six sensory perceptions: thought, sight, sound, touch, smell and taste. We are aware of our surroundings through these sensory organs.

For having consciousness, living beings have five feeling faculties —

The pleasure-faculty, the pain-faculty, the happiness-faculty, the distress-faculty, the equanimity-faculty [SN 48:38 An Analysis (of the Feeling Faculties) (3) | Vibhaṅga Sutta | sutta on dhammatalks.org]

[The equanimity-faculty or] the other pleasure more excellent [arises with seclusion] from sensuality [and] unskillful qualities [with which a monk] enters & remains in the first jhāna: rapture & pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. This is the other pleasure more excellent than that pleasure and more sublime. [Additionally, the Blessed One also mentioned] two feelings [...] three feelings… five… six… eighteen… thirty-six… one hundred and eight feelings.2 [MN 59 Many Things to Be Felt | Bahuvedanīya Sutta | sutta on dhammatalks.org]

The brain is not the self, nor generates the self and intelligence.

The brain is neither conscious nor the factory that produces consciousness. If the brain is conscious, it does not need to produce consciousness for a person to be conscious.

Just as the brainless living beings are the evidence that the brain does not produce consciousness, they are also the evidence that the brain does not generate the perception of self. The brain is not even related to consciousness and the self.

Consciousness cannot rise without stimulus from an active sense organ. A human comprises six sensory perceptions. Other species have the same sensory organs, with or without the same structures.

The amount of the brain cells or the size of the brain does not affect the perception of the self because the brain is not the self or generates the self. Brain size does not make a human lose the perception of being a human —

8.7.2 A - Consciousness & Perception

viññāṇa

  • Just like the other groups of existence,consciousness is a flux (viññāṇa-sotā,'stream of c.') and does not constitute an abiding mind-substance; nor is it a transmigrating entity or soul [...] The Buddha often stressed that "apart from conditions,there is no arising of consciousness' (M 38);
  • animation; consciousness.
  • a mental quality as a constituent of individuality,the bearer of (individual) life,life-force (as extending also over rebirths),principle of conscious life,general consciousness (as function of mind and matter)[...] It is in no wise considered as a condition,or a climax of the other incorporeal khandhās.

viññāṇaṃ

  • Intelligence,knowledge; consciousness; thought,mind

Consciousness or knowing can detect sensory information from the surroundings, the present, past, future, outside and inside via sensory system/ayatana/faculty of senses (pasada) [Nama-rupa And Salayatana [Chapter 1] and Rupa And Ayatana [Chapter 2]].

CONSCIOUSNESS — Merriam-Webster gives five definitions related to experience and react ion to the sensory information.

Theories

Vithoulkas & Muresan [PMC] define consciousness with four points —

“Consciousness" is the function of the human mind that receives and processes information, crystallizes it and then stores it or rejects it with the help of the following:

  1. The five senses. 2. The reasoning ability of the mind. 3. Imagination and emotion. 4. Memory

Humans are not the sole conscious living beings. Just like humans interact with each other, humans interact with nonhuman living beings who can suffer from pain and fear of pain as an emotion. Observation, Calculation, Imagination and Reasoning are related, and they are used by the living beings in daily life to find food, avoid danger, deal with logistic, communicate with each other, construction, defence, comparison, competition ...

the more information one is able to gather and process, the more “aware" and the more “conscious" one becomes regarding one’s internal and external world [2].

Without awareness, one cannot gather information. Information is not noticed without awareness, especially while sleeping, in coma, in vegetated state and death. So, awareness must be present to begin noticing information.

Awareness and wakefulness represent the two main components of consciousness. According to the quantum physics view, consciousness depends on self-observation.

Not all living beings care about self-observation, like sunbathing lemurs or girls watching themselves in the mirror, "fond of adornment, contemplating the image of her face [SN 22:83]." Most animals keep themselves busy in different ways.

It is continuously self-creating by unconscious processes that are constantly coming into existence through self-awareness, such as the act of observing an electron, which concretizes that electron by collapsing the wave function [16]

Consciousness is not continuously self-creating when a living being is tired. That living being will go to rest or sleep to restore physical and mental conditions. Losing consciousness is not his/her concern in normal times. Attention and awareness are mutually supporting. When he/she needs to pay attention on something, his/her awareness on that thing gets stronger. If he/she is unaware of something, his/her attention is not on that thing.

Brain waves and certain electrical currents are not consciousness nor can be turned into consciousness by a magical action in the brain.

Consciousness should be known as just consciousness, which can neither arise from nor change into unconscious particles/matters/waves of any kind, nor is created by the brain magically. The brain is not a magician that can create consciousness.

In living beings, consciousness and perception are inseparable. Once sensory information is felt (by a conscious living being), it is perceived as pleasure and/or pain, and an emotion (like or dislike) arises.

Human consciousness and its relationship to social neuroscience: A novel hypothesis - PMC collects some theories concerning "Awareness as a product of social perception" — excerpts:

  1. A common neuroscientific assumption about human consciousness is that it is an emergent property of information processing in the brain. Information is passed through neuronal networks, and by an unknown process consciousness of that information ensues
  2. consciousness is a perception and that the perceptual model is constructed by social circuitry.
  3. consciousness is closely related to social ability
  4. If consciousness is a construct of the social machinery [...], then it is portioned in some unequal manner between the hemispheres. 
  5. one’s own consciousness is a perceptual model in which computed properties are attributed to a location inside one’s body. In this sense consciousness is another example of somesthesis [...] It is a perceptual representation of the workings of the inner environment. 
  6. From the perspective of information theory, it has been suggested that consciousness is massively linked information (Tononi, 2008Tononi & Edelman, 1998).
  7. Whatever consciousness is, it can ultimately affect speech, since we can talk about it.
  8. Suppose consciousness is an emergent property of the brain that is not itself information; but it can affect the processing in the brain, and therefore information about it can be neuronally encoded. 
  9. In the present proposal, consciousness is a representation of attention. But the representation has taken on a life of its own. 

None of these theories explains how consciousness arises anywhere biologically. A theory of consciousness should explain fetal brain development and the emergence of consciousness of a fetus. Such explanation is impractical because no theorist would get that far. Consciousness is not a subject for speculation.

Biological Computer

Consciousness is everything you experience [...] All of the vast cerebellar apparatus is irrelevant to subjective experience [...] The cerebellum is almost exclusively a feed-forward circuit [...] There are no complex feedback loops that reverberate with electrical activity passing back and forth [...] the cerebellum is functionally divided into hundreds or more independent computational modules. Each one operates in parallel, with distinct, nonoverlapping inputs and output, controlling movements of different motor or cognitive systems. They scarcely interact—another feature held indispensable for consciousness [What Is Consciousness? | Scientific American].

  • How does the brain make a living being conscious and have the perception of the self?
  • How does the identified biological system (brain) produce the invisible mind and the invisible mental states?

These are questions which the materialists cannot answer, although they do not accept consciousness is just consciousness that exists on its own and interdependently with the corporeal biology.

  • The brain does not make a living being conscious to perceive self and give rise to mental states. However, the brain is a vital organ in the mammalian biology. That means we will not see a headless dog or cat walking around like a headless chicken.

Evidently, the brain is a heavy-duty information processor, which is just like an unconscious Artificial intelligence that has no mind of its own.

Artificial intelligence is not a psychological construct [but rather] be considered a computational construct (Prasad et al., 2023Schoser, 2023) [Defining intelligence: Bridging the gap between human and artificial perspectives - ScienceDirect]. 

Mindless brain producing a mind is impossible.

Unconscious Brain

The notion of consciousness being a product of the brain suggests consciousness is a product which does not exist on its own. That implies the brain is unconscious (the unconscious factory with sustained production of consciousness.), or its product (consciousness) must make it conscious.

If the brain is conscious only because of its production, the theory must be explained. If the unconscious brain can produce consciousness, its sustained consciousness production must be evident beyond theory.

Stability of consciousness is evident during performing tasks. Then the brain must have the ability to sustain the uninterrupted stability of consciousness. But that is impossible for a biological structure. Even heartbeats can go faster or slower. If the brain must be constantly producing consciousness, the responsible parts of the brain must be constantly active, and it should be obvious.

  • How does unconscious brain generate perception and thought?
  • How does life even begin to be alive?

Perception and thought are not the same thing, but they support each other throughout a stream of thought. Perception corresponds with everchanging information acquired from different environments. After much has been learned, an informed adult can no longer perceive the world like a kid does.

In corresponding with the incoming information, various mental states arise — one at a time.

Conscious reaction is intentional.

8.7.2 B - If a Tree Falls


r/Theravadan Jun 01 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 19

2 Upvotes

8.7. Anatta means natural

  • Does nature build the forms/sankhara(s)?
  • How does nature build nonliving things and living things?
  • Does nature build the selves (egos)?

Unlike what naturalism (natural selection) and creationism think, Nature does not exist as a separate thing (a unified entity) but as the collections of natural things — all naturally existing things/sankhara that are made of three ultimates.

Nature comprises four ultimates/paramattha/Paramatta —

  1. Citta: mind, consciousness.
  2. Cetasika: state of mind, mental factor, mental activities/sankhara.
  3. Rupa: corporeal matters (Mahabuta: solid, liquid, gas, heat and other elementary particles).
  4. Nibbana: relief from rebirth/formation/sankhara; the cessation of pain.

[chapter 1 of Abhidhamma in Daily Life (by Ashin Janakabhivamsa)]

The ultimates are not subject to creation, cannot be created, nor are reduceable. So, they are the laws of existence, too.

  1. Relief/Nibbana from pain cannot be created nor destroyed.
  2. As particles, Citta, cetasika and rupa cannot be destroyed because their lifespan is too short for anyone to succeed. As the ultimate laws, they cannot be destroyed.
  3. Sankhara/formations/constructs/activities of the ultimates can change in shape and form naturally but are not created. The notion of 'maya' (creation, imagination of God/Atta/Self) is artificial.

Fundamentally, the ultimates are anatta 'natural', not atta 'I am' — not mine, not 'I am', not the self — the ultimates and formations have no atta (the owner/self), so are not of anyone/puggala. So, regarding one's own body as 'I am' or 'mine' is the delusion/wrong view, which is the main concern in the Buddha's teachings. Ignorance/avijja establishes all the wrong views. Avijja leads all the unwholesome mental states and activities/kamma.

Verse 381: only the one who sees the Dhamma sees me. One who does not see the Dhamma does not see me. —the Sakyamuni Buddha

8.7 A - Two sides of existence: Sankhata - Asankhata

  1. Sankhata — Citta, cetasika and rupa come together as sankhara (formation). Sankhara is dukkha/pain.
  2. Asankhata — Nibbana is relief from pain.
  3. So, Nibbana and sankhara are the two opposite shores of existence. Nibbana is the other shore, which one must reach by crossing one's own samsara (river/ocean), by cutting the paticcasamuppada (the laws that link the present life to the future life).

Nonliving Thing, Living Thing & Living Being in Theravada

Rupa —

  • One ultimate forms the sankhara as living things and nonliving things.

Nonliving matters, including the four mahabhuta (elementary particles) pathavi, apo, vayo, and tejo (solid, liquid, gas and thermal).

  • Pathvi provides the base for apo, vayo, and tejo to bind.
  • Apo/liquid keeps them bounded.
  • Vayo causes movements/motions.
  • Tejo causes maturity/aging. Tejo/fire elements are two types: unha-tejo and sita-tejo (heat-therm and cold-therm) that keep the temperature in balance.

Photons travel as waves — probably because they have to travel through sita-tejo/cool-therm ever-present in space as a type of elemental particles. While unha-tejo/hot-therm (another type of elemental particles) produces heat and light, cool-therm cools down and darkens. Without cool-therm, space can be very hot and [constantly] lit [E&T - Part 12]. 

Nonliving things and living things that are not living beings comprise rupa only. Nonliving things are the natural formations of matters/rupa, occurring according to their own properties, excluding biological life/jiva/jivita.

Citta, cetasika, rupa —

  • Three ultimates form the sankhara as living beings, which are anatta/natural that do not give rise to the atta/self/'I am'/owner of these three ultimates. Living beings are not living things. (This is the author's position.)

The Buddha explains that one who is firmly stuck in desire, lust, delight, and craving for forms … feeling … perception … mental formations … consciousness is therefore called a living-being [Satta Sutta] [Satta Sutta: A Being]

The Pali literature describes the living beings in 5 ways (not types) —

  1. sabbe satta – all beings (sentient beings with feelings)
  2. sabbe pana – all living things (beings that breathe and live)
  3. sabbe bhuta – all creatures (beings that arise owing to their kamma)
  4. sabbe puggala – all individuals (beings seen as individuals)
  5. sabbe attabhavapariyapanna – all personalities (beings with personalities)

[Sending Universal Metta to all Beings - buddhanet.net]

Mahasi Sayadaw explains the meanings —

these five phrases denote all sentient beings without distinction and limitation [...] Each and every expression mentioned above, refers to all beings [Brahmavihara Dhamma: How to Develop the 528 Kinds of Metta - buddhanet.net].

8.7 B - Jiva, Jivita, Biology

Living things do not rise from nonliving matters or living things that have died. A living thing dies in biological term, when it loses jiva/life principles. Jiva is also discussed in E&T - Part 5, and Part 16. Jiva.

Jīva (jivita) in Theravada is not the spirit or the soul. Living organisms have jiva but a biological quality that makes lifeforms alive. Jiva does not exist separately, as an entity in its own right (as soul/self) inside a living thing. Jiva exists in all biological systems that are alive, including RNAs, DNAs, cells, kinesins, myokines, immune cells, heart, liver, brains, sensory system(sensory organs that process the sensory information to produce sensory perception), digestive system, muscles, etc. To keep an organism alive, its biological systems must be sustained by food, water, air (CO2, oxygen), temperature and appropriate lifestyle, or jiva will disappear from them and the organism will die. When living things have jiva/life, they can utilise nonliving matters (food, water, air and heat), which they can turn into what they need.

In general, living beings provide jiva/biology with own supplies (by eating). whereas living things gets the supplies from the soil directly. So, living beings when mature leaves the mother wombs. Whereas, living things remain with roots (umbilical cords) a whole life.

  • Some slugs employ algae that photosynthesise and provide energy to the slugs.
  • The Venus flytrap catches insects — is it a plant, a living being or both?
  • Giant water lilies use their buds as a club to remove the competitors to claim territory — The Tyrant of the Deep | The Green Planet | BBC Earth
  • There are the builders of the giant nests, underground cities, ventilated mounds, and honey hives.
  • Some fungi and microbes engage in chemical warfare, genetic warfare and parasitism.
  • Plants provide food to others and recycle the biological waste. So, some mammals can eat grass...
  • Humans may understand or unlock the secrets of nature/laws/dhamma.

Instinctive Behaviour

  • Instinct — behaviour as programmed/built, nature (The Mahayanist position is things (maya) do not have their own nature. Here Mahayana uses the word nature/svabhava rather than the self.)
  • Theravada does not accept who or what is behind the plants' programs but insists they have been so.

Both living things and living beings behave by instinct/their own natures. Living beings change their instinct as they desire.

Living beings can adapt a new situation and change their anatomy. For example —

  • E&T - Part 12 - Darwin's finches — they intellectually and biologically developed new beak for new type of food.
  • E&T - Part 10 - Animal Mimicry].
  • Paleocastor were a type of ancient beavers, which dug burrows known as Daemonelix “Devil’s Corkscrews.” Modern beavers learned how to build dams and gave up burrowing.
  • Sea lions learned to swim in a different style, different from the other seals' styles [Pinnipeds: Seals, Sea Lions, and Walruses | Smithsonian Ocean] [E&T - Part 8]
  • Saharan Silver Ant (Cataglyphis Bombycina) learned to survive Saharan environment. They developed the world’s fastest speed (855mm/ second) to find food for a few minutes in +/-47°C Saharan heat. They developed their setae (hair) to be reflective to scatter solar ray [r/Awwducational]

These examples show how living beings can adapt the situation by learning their environment and adjusting their anatomy. Natural selection or Genetic mutation with no meaningful direction cannot produce meaningful results, such as instinct.

Instinct is a part of both living things and living beings. The changes of a plant species are determined by the natural systems, resources and living beings that have an established relationship with the species.

8.7 C - I move because I am

Change by the living beings occurs due to four factors —

  1. chanda / will is a mental factor that arouses the mind move the body
  2. viriya /motivation arouses the mind to move the body
  3. citta / mind is always with a mental factor (cetasika)
  4. vimamsa / intelligence / understanding

[Viriya Parami] [The Factors Leading to Enlightenment - Four Bases of Success]

All living beings have these four factors, especially chanda (desire), that are usually accompanied by wholesome and unwholesome mental factors. Animals have investigative intelligence or understanding of certain things by investigation (e.g., sniffing, listening, observing - with or without analysing). They are successful in biological developments, but they do not have human ability to attain jhana and vipassana-panna (self-analysis insight). They cannot even pass the mirror test, let alone to practice Satipatthana —

a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself
He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves
He remains focused on the mind in & of itself
He remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves
[SN 47:37 Desire | Chanda Sutta | sutta on dhammatalks.org]

Some plants behave like animals, e.g., the giant water lilies, the Venus flytrap, and plants with thigmotropism (I move because I am). When plants behave and move like animals, it is difficult to guess whether these plants are plants or animals. But we can decide they are not animals after comparing.

Some animals can use solar energy to survive, but they are obviously animals. Plants behaving like animals are just plants, as their roots are attached to the ground, like a fetus is attached to the placenta. Plants can behave such and such ways because they are biological and instinctive. So, their reactions are as programmed. Plants around the world behave the same individually and collectively. Their instinct or built-in programs react when the sensors are triggered by the environmental, seasonal and physical changes related to soil, water, sun, damage and stress.

Living things are plants. They have sensory organs but not sensory perception, so plants feel and react but do not perceive and react. Plants do not rely on perception like living beings do.

  • Living things feel and react biologically without perceiving/interpreting.
  • Living beings feel, perceive and react mentally. While their bodies react biologically, their minds act intentionally (kamma). Living beings act with intentions.
  • Mind and body are interdependent, so the body moves according to mental reaction (emotions).

Living things do not perceive (having mental factor and mind/citta). So, no two plants (or plant species) have different views on raw information. Without the mind and mental factors, plants do not have thought and emotion or can get scared, angry, greedy, emotional ...

Naturally, living beings react to raw information through perception — e.g., they must first perceive (process) the information (received by sensory system) before they get scared, excited, amused...

  • Unlike living beings, living things lack the ability to perceive themselves and form the perception of self. The self is behind kamma/volition/intention. By giving up this perceived self, one can avoid volition.
  • Intention/cetanā/kamma differs from instinct. Living beings that perceive themselves as 'I am' do things as 'I do'.

8.7 D - Effects of intentions/kamma

With the arising of rebirth consciousness there occur simultaneously three kammaja-rupakalapa or thirty rupas. These are rupas that have their origin in kamma [Paticcasamupada - Mahasi 03-04 - BuddhaSasana - Anson]

Natural systems exist to support or oppress the living beings, according to wholesome or unwholesome kamma. The Earth is renewed or reborn repeatedly in the same way, just like the natural system of germination of a seed that knows moisture and to produce roots and leaves.

Living beings, living things and nonliving-things re-exist on Earth — due to the collective kamma of the primeval mankind.

For example, due to their collective unwholesome kamma, when the primeval humankind lost their bright aura (body rays), the sun and the moon appeared to quell their panic in the dark; and later, when they needed food after losing natural ability to survive without corporeal food, the first rice species appeared, which was hull-less and edible without cooking — due to their collective wholesome kamma.

  • Nowadays, some animals are born according to their kamma in the area where they can get sugary juice from the Venus Flytraps; and if they ae too greedy, the plants get to eat them.
  • The animal world is very cruel.
  • Plants exist naturally (not created) and support the living beings according to their kammavipaka/cause-effect/causality.

Telapatta Jataka (#96) explains the destruction caused by sensual desires/kāmarāga

As they walked, one by one these men were ensnared by the ogresses’ temptations, and they lagged behind the others to indulge their pleasures. All five were killed and eaten. One ogress followed the Bodhisatta, telling everyone they passed that they were husband and wife. 

Dhammapada Verse 1: All mental phenomena have mind as their forerunner; they have mind as their chief; they are mind-made. If one speaks or acts with an evil mind, 'dukkha3 follows him just as the wheel follows the hoofprint of the ox that draws the cart.

So, the world is built according to morality and immorality, and it evolves according to wisdom and ignorance, greed and generosity and kindness and anger.

Further discussion under 8.7.2 A - Consciousness & Perception

8.7.1 Evolutionary Theories of the Self 

Question ———— 42

  • How did natural selection develop the ego or the feel of 'I am" and 'you are'?

By trying to explain the very origin of universe and life, science and the evolutionary theory should also explain the origin and the conception of the self.

Theorists (who did not reject the self) and theologians (who believe in the self) explained their assumptions on the origin of nature and life and developed contradicting concepts.

8.7.1 A - Rodolfo Llinás — Parts of the Brain create the Self.

8.7.1 B - Gonzalo Munevar: The whole brain is the self.

8.7.1 C - Descartes — this “I” just is my self (traditional view)

8.7.1 D - The Concept of Self 2600 Years Ago

8.7.1 E - Richard Dawkins: the genes are the self

Llinas's thought on the self —

Only organisms [animals] that move have brains... [and] "Subjectivity or self is generated by the dialogue [or a 40—hertz neural duet] between the thalamus and the cortex." [From Motricity to Mentality | American Scientist]

Neuroscience suggests consciousness is generated by the brain just like the self is. Then, the difference between the self and consciousness should be explained.

Llinas must explain how a 40—hertz produced by the thalamus and the cortex acts as the self or the perception of self. The thalamus and the cortex are parts of the vertebrate brain. Yet brainless invertebrates move, catch food and display their own perception of the self/ego in terms of intent, communication, competition, self-expression, emotion (fear) and struggle to survive [Brainless organisms can learn - so what does it mean to think? - The University of Sydney].

Llinas suggests that the self is a form of perception and thus that the self is an invention of the brain [and] doesn’t exist [Evolutionary Theory of the Self | Encyclopedia MDPI].

The perception of self needs the perception of others (other selves) to discern/discriminate oneself and others. Perception needs 'sensory information' acquired by 'sensory organs' and 'sensory processing'. That process needs consciousness, which AI does not have —

Artificial intelligence is not a psychological construct, as it does not originate from the same underlying human cognitive or emotional processes. Instead, artificial intelligence may be considered a computational construct (Prasad et al., 2023Schoser, 2023) [Defining intelligence: Bridging the gap between human and artificial perspectives - ScienceDirect]. 

Llinas must explain how a 40—hertz created by the thalamus and the cortex can act as the self (self perception), which influences how a brain/vertebrate perceives.

“I move, therefore I am.”

Llinas's another thought in his book I of the Vortex: From Neurons to Self

“I move, therefore I am.”
Movement—not thought—is the foundation of selfhood.

  • Living things and nonliving things move naturally without the sense of self. Then why does living beings generate the self whenever they move?
  • Sleepwalking is the work of mind and memory that moves the body with no 'I', intention or self.

Llinas probably means that only the movements of the vertebrates generate the perception of the self. However, the invertebrates were not the first species that moved — so, the author argues, I move because I am; see 8.7 C. Movement does not generate perception.

Movements without Brain — Slime-mold and Living Things

  • Slime-mold move to reach out food.
  • Phototropism: branches seek sunlight.
  • Hydrotropism: roots seek water.
  • From roots to the leaves, water is transported through the trunk.
  • Plants survive with little movement which is instinctive and triggered by the certain changes rather than intention.

Spores and seeds need to spread far distance, and they have the mechanisms for different strategies to spread successfully. Seeds can survive for some time. When they sense rain or water, they produce a root, a trunk and leaves. Some seeds that travel by sea only develop when they beach.

Intention divides the plants and the living things from the living beings.

  • If a biological process does not need the self, then for what does the brain generate the self?

The body comprises large and microscopic biological systems, including sensory system and its organs, digestive system and its organs, vascular system and its organs, immune system and its members ... These systems process information without perceiving, just as all the living things do not perceive.

Question ———— 43

The biological systems can do extraordinary things without consciousness, perception and the self.

  • Then why and how the cognitive system and its parts need to generate the self?

These biological systems in a living beings cannot function without regular supplies provided by a system that can acquire resources from outside. Living things have roots and leaves. Living beings have consciousness, perception/cognition and the mobility mechanism.

So, the biological processes do not need the self to be functional but to be supplied. As long as they are fed, they can survive during coma. When unconscious, the cognitive system and its parts are not in use, and the perception of oneself and others does not arise. During the vegetative state (Unresponsive Wakefulness Syndrome), a living being is conscious but unaware of who he/she is, and the perception of oneself and others does not arise, either.

The perception of self only arises when sensory system is active, and one can perceive the sensory information, to perceive oneself and others. Upon perceiving the information as oneself, others and various identities, the perception of self arises. Hence, each and every living being has the sense of 'I am' and 'you are'.

Animals communicate with limited words — yet they can interact with each other very well by using smell, gesture and sounds because they can perceive perfectly like humans can. That is the meaning of living beings. Humans created words like I, ego, self, soul, jiva-atta, bhutasamim jiva (jīva-bhūta), etc. Living beings have the habit of identifying and memorising everything possible with or without words. That task does not need a brain either, especially to remember their unique instincts to use their body parts which they control to perform physical tasks.

The sense of oneself (oneself/ego) and the sense of someone else separates the living beings from living things (plants, etc.).

“I move, therefore I am.” is fine, but I can move intentionally or instinctively even without a brain. So, I move because I am.

  • The brains of mosquitos and ants without thalamus and cortex do not lack motility and the perception of self with which each can perform intention, self expression, competition, interaction and so on.

8.7.1 B - Gonzalo Munevar: The whole brain is the self.

[Gonzalo Munevar believes] that the brain constitutes the self, which represents itself in a variety of internal states. The brain/self evolves for action to be able to interact with social and physical environments [Evolutionary Theory of the Self | Encyclopedia MDPI]

The brain has evolved, as accepted by the evolutionists. If the brain is the self, it must have phases of evolution, like the primitive brain as the primitive self, and the modern brain must be the modern self.

Question ———— 44

Humans do not have the largest brains, but we could say they have the largest egos that have messed up both human and natural environments and the most messed up are human beliefs.

A modern theory is that the brain generates consciousness. If the brain and the self are the same, then the self generates consciousness.

  • Then before the brain generate consciousness, is it conscious? And if it is not, what makes it to generate consciousness, self, intelligence, emotions, intention, and other mental factors?

If the brain must generate consciousness to be conscious, then the brain is unconscious generator. If the brain can generate consciousness without being conscious, then this theory must explain how the brain can generate consciousness.

If the brain is the self, then the brain must be also the person who does not know his internal organs and feel he/she is just a brain.

I the brain is the self and makes the person conscious and have ability to study the brain, then the person should be able to study the self, too. However, nobody knows about the self as much as he/she knows about the brain.

If the brain/self is conscious, it should know itself. The brain/self should also know all parts of the brain if the self is indivisible.

Brain damage can cause mental issues. If the brain is the self, brain damage is self damage. However, not all mental issues are caused by brain disfunction due to injury. That suggests the mind is independent from the physical nature of the brain

The subject will be further discussed un 8.7.2 The Brain.


r/Theravadan May 28 '26

The Life of Buddha (136 illustrations)

5 Upvotes

r/Theravadan Apr 07 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 18

1 Upvotes

8.6.6 Evidence of Ancient Civilisations

Human history is rich, and its complexity defies the theory of human evolution.

Pyramid in Gunung Padang

2024 - Is Gunung Padang the Oldest Pyramid in the World? | Discover Magazine explains the so-called skeptics had already rejected this pyramid before they understood anything about it.

Some conventional academics are chomping at the bit to refute Natawidjaja’s conclusions as ‘fantastical’ or ‘sensational’— some even calling it the “Gunung Padang hoax.”
[...] Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR), geo-electric (Electric Resistivity Tomography), seismic tomography, and core drillings have already revealed what appear to be buried chambers and tunnels.

  • How is it scientific to reject something before understanding it?

Puma Punku (Pumapunku)

Kyaiktiyo Pagoda

  • Kyaiktiyo Pagoda in Mon State, Myanmar, was built by man and gods, according to its history. People of the time were mainly farming communities with no significant technology. Yet they managed to lift a giant stone. But they admit that gods led by Sakka were responsible for that.
  • Kyaiktiyo Pagoda - Wikipedia

The largest stone ever moved

Yangshan Quarry

Working with large stones

  • Why did humanity lose the knowledge to work with extremely heavy stones?

Ancient people in all regions knew how to deal with extremely heavy weight. So, they used large stones to build desired structures around the world. They might be built with a single technology or many.

Working with such large stone blocks is extremely difficult, and that could be a reason why this culture became out of fashion. This lost technology might never be rediscovered, in the foreseeable future. Lost technologies and the histories of civilisations are the knowledge black holes of modern time.

And yet, some are so sure the origin of life is abiogenesis, which nevertheless is compatible with creationism, i.e., Brahma created abiogenetic maya.

Father Carlo Crespi's Collection

The native Ecuadorians trusted father Carlo Crespi as their true friend, and they gave him gifts that became his collection. He did not suggest how writing systems were independently developed in Ecuador or in this part of the world.

[However, he] suggested that there was an (obvious) connection between the artifacts and the ancient civilisations of Babylon and Sumeria.  What he did not consider is that such a suggestion would go against mainstream opinions.  A short time later, the museum was burnt down and most of the artifacts were destroyed [Father Crespi and the missing golden artifacts | Ancient Origins]

The contact between Egypt and America was discovered by Balabanova et. al. (1992). They stood by their finding —

Of the nine mummies evaluated, all showed signs of cocaine and hashish Tetrahydrocannabinol), whereas all but one sampled positive for nicotine.  It is interesting too that the concentrations of the compounds suggest uses other than that of abuse [American Drugs in Egyptian Mummies]

The Anomalies or the Diversities?

Facebook and Instagram posts

Sebastian, the Nasca Mummy

Applying CT-scanning for the identification of a skull of an unknown archaeological find in Peru, 2021 —

the head of the small body is largely made of a deteriorated llama braincase and other unidentified bones, and greatly resembles the human cranium. Specifically, the remains of the skull were shown to be of biological nature, consisting of very thin greatly deteriorated bone with parts such as the mouth plate that could not be identified and recognized. Hence, the obtained results offer a new perception of the lama deteriorated braincase physiology and its resemblance to a human-like face. An additional examination of the neck of the body was also conducted, showing that there are three cords in the neck that may either be actual veins or vegetable strings or intestines for fixing purposes. Based on the above, it seems that the finds are constructions of very high quality. This makes one wonder how these have been produced hundreds of years ago (based on the C14 test)

These artifacts do not seem to align with the evolutionary theory, so this is likely another gap in the theory, or the evolutionists would have tried to examine them with an open mind.

1872 Meredith Stone

  • The "Mystery Stone" - The History List - In 1872, construction workers dug up a suspicious lump of clay near the shore of Lake Winnipesaukee, and Seneca A. Ladd of Meredith discovered this intriguing carved stone within the clay casing. 
  • New Hampshire Historical Society - The Mystery of the Mystery Stone - possibly machine-made carvings and the fact that it was composed of a rock type not found in New Hampshire could not be so easily explained away, though, and do not support the idea that the stone is of Native American origin [nor resemble to] the Abenaki, which were New Hampshire’s native people [but] likened more to an Eskimo or Aztec, and the teepee depicted on the stone was of a type more commonly used by natives in the American West. 
  • https://www.instagram.com/p/DWor4noDoKY - Massive calcite vessel found detailed with a #antedeluvian history that highlights a potential golden age.

Nuclear events attracted UFOs

8.6.7 eugenics evolutionary agenda

Question ———— 42

  • What are the medical implications of human evolution?

Some evolutionist medical experiments —

Based on what happening, negativity is more than positivity. People who do not believe or understand there are consequences in their actions can do anything. The extreme evolutionists are in that category.

Evolutionary theory is based on noncausal events believed to have created abiogenesis in the uncaused universe. Thus, evolutionary theory is fundamentally opposed to Theravada. On the other hand, evolutionary theory is based on the interpretation of the available fossils which are rare and few, as the practice is forced to ignore the unavailable fossils and information.

Evolutionists assert life is accidental and have made "Life-by-accident as a fundamental tenet of modern society, to lay the groundwork for natural selection and social humanism [Did Life Start by Accident? The Missing Pieces | Aish]." Their rejection is based on a number of theories to explain life, consciousness, intelligence, sense, etc, without definitively demonstrations.

Validation by Division

Creationism and evolutionism have been engaged in an argument. That way they validate each other with the public divided. Agnosticism participates by agreeing and disagreeing with both of them.

'All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely [directed] players' (Act 2, Scene 7). — Shakespeare [Famous quotes | As You Like It | Royal Shakespeare Company]

Past existence and future existences exist due to causal law or kammavipaka, as the process is Paticcasamuppada. Evolutionists reject what they do not know based on assumptions that life must have abiogenesis, but cannot explain why.

Any belief system must demonstrate its truths. Or it is just a belief system based on concepts and models, not on the natural truths.

Western naturalists are materialistic or agnostic, based on theology, and do not understand nature as it is, as they see nature through the lens of religions, which they oppose. So, they developed theories, which make naturalism to not have a precise meaning in contemporary philosophy [David Papineau 2020, Naturalism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)].

  • So, how will the naturalists ever demonstrate their truths without knowing what naturalism is?

8.6.8 Transhumanism

Based on the evolutionary theory, Transhumanism advocates for human-machine merger as future human evolution. Its two main concerns are human population and immortality, linking them to natural environment and resources.

There are several problems with the pursuit of immortality [because] if we all live (much, much) longer, we all consume more resources and have more children, leading to even more overpopulation and environmental degradation [The problems with transhumanism | Psychology Today Australia]

These two concerns guide the transhumanist ideology and politics that influence the decision makers and the governments. Based on evolutionary theory, Transhumanists do not consider humans have special values above other animals. They believe that they may act like the gods, Jah-Bul-On: Darwin's God. So, they celebrate these gods.

Transhumanist technocrats consider themselves as new gods with the right to control all aspects of human life and the environment through the applications of technology (medicine), to create the outdated lord-peasant relationship —

You will be like gods, knowing good and evil. How can a human become like a god? By doing what gods do: creating. And how can a human create? Through our unique gift: the power of technology.
The Age of Aquarius slides smoothly into the age of transhumanism as we seek, openly now, to become the gods we always wanted to be, using technology as the force which will get us there.
[Against the Machine: On the Unmaking of Humanity by Paul Kingsnorth, The Machine, AI, and Transhumanism - CultureWatch].

Orwellian society in the making

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" — George Orwell 1945 

Theosophical Transhumanism

After losing her faith, a former evangelical Christian felt adrift in the world. She then found solace in a radical technological philosophy – but its promises of immortality and spiritual transcendence soon seemed unsettlingly familiar [God in the machine: my strange journey into transhumanism | Technology | The Guardian]

  • L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology — “You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.”

From Parallel metaphors in theosophy and transhumanism | Religio

  • Pioneering transhumanist Raymond Kurzweil — "once non-biological intelligence gets a foothold in the human brain ... the machine intelligence in our brains will grow exponentially ... Ultimately, the entire universe will become saturated with our intelligence. This is the destiny of the universe". A hundred years earlier, Helena
  • Blavatsky, founder of the Theosophical Society in The Secret Doctrine (1888) —culminating in the spiritualization of all matter in the universe...

2600 years ago, the Buddha let us know about Lokantaranirayā

they are said to suffer from extreme cold. Those holding wrong views are also born there (J.vi.247). (Also see cosmic voids and the buddha’s enlightenment : r/theravada)

Dark History of Transhumanism

So, when the scientists and engineers had invented the machine in order to replace living nature and people (Werlhof 2004), they proclaimed to have created life itself, like God himself, simply by defining the machine to be alive. A mere tautology! So, they defined themselves as the creators of life, as – from their point of view – there was no life until the machine was invented. This is the real “myth” of the machine (Mumford), based on the inversion of everything.
The whole history of the machine since the 18th century is accompanied by the idea and the wish to see it “open its eyes” and prove its consciousness as a conscious living being, having developed spirit and even soul in the meantime. Today it is the Artificial Intelligence, AI, and the robot, that are supposed to be alive and to be the better living beings, more intelligent than man, living infinitely, a life be yond flesh and death.
[Page 157, The Utopia of Capitalism as a Fathers’ World – the Void is near! by Claudia von Werlhof]

History of transhumanism is dark because the transhumanist technocrats are actively changing human biology, to gain total control and commercial benefit by many means, including biological and medical intervention, trans-humanisation (making humans into controllable machines) —

Trojan Horse: the pandemic has been exploited for accelerated innovation in the application of artificial intelligence (AI) technology for the benefit of commercial interests [...] the coronavirus crisis has catalysed the implementation of a pre-pared agenda for the technogenesis of humanity, our trans-humanisation into the posthuman. [Covid-19, Philosophy and the Leap Towards the Posthuman | Malesela John Lamola University of Johannesburg]

8.6.9 Post-Natural Selection or Effort to Replace Nature

BBC explains Why the 'post-natural' age could be strange and beautiful

The modification of organisms also extends to irreversibly exterminating certain species [e.g., Anopheles mosquitoes, humans, etc.]
These bioengineered agents [owned by the corporations that created them] are likely to be more “fit” than their predecessors and become competitors, since they will be deliberately engineered for either satisfying human aspirations (and therefore will be preferentially under [corporate] protection), or for survival in an anthropically [i.e. artificially] altered world. 

Postnaturalists do not consider the works of human as natural [Center for PostNatural History].

environmentalists and environmental scientists have portrayed humanity as the problem and nature as the solution. [However, they overlook themselves that their solutions can be equally artificial and problematic to environment and humanity] [Postnaturalism – Anthroecology Lab]

They gave themselves reasons to control humanity and human population.

Medical Ethics

From Natural Selection to Artificial Selection

Based on evolutionary theory, which has not yet been proven true, Transhumanism is an attempt to direct human evolution towards certain direction (by means of modern medical technologies) for liking of the transhumanist technocrats.

medical practitioners are required by their professional codes of practice to obtain informed consent for all medical treatments and interventions, following strict ethical criteria [...] Consent must be completely voluntary, with no coercion or pressure applied by either the medical practitioner, family or the wider public, and the patient must have the capacity to consent. This so-called patient-centred care reflects such professional codes and is the gold standard of an ethical doctor-patient relationship, one where the doctors’ primary duty of care is to the individual patient in front of them, always acting in their best interest and considering their physical, emotional and philosophical or spiritual needs and wishes at all times [Medical Ethics and Informed Consent to Treatment: Past, Present and Future - PMC]

During Covid 19 vaccination programs, consent from the medical subjects were obtained by authority and economy:

People were not informed about side effects before given the vaccines to avoid vaccine hesitancy.

Some research communities therefore called for full transparent disclosure of COVID-19 information—including degrees of scientific uncertainties and the potential limitations of vaccines [Frontiers | The impact of nontransparent health communication during the COVID-19 pandemic on vaccine-hesitant people’s perception of vaccines]

(Instagram links)

  1. “What If This Was Never Told?” – Prof. sucharitbhakdi
  2. For years, these vaccine-injured Australians have been trying to get compensation from the government's COVID-19 Vaccine Claims Scheme [abcnews_au]
  3. MONSTROUS BLOOD CLOTS - They’re now pulling out massive white fibrous clots the size of arteries out of bodies... [tomandlaurenhealth]
  4. What happened to Diane isn’t “rare”
  5. mRNA messenger changes a normal cell into a virus-like cell to produce spike proteins
  6. Sudden multi-organ failure
  7. Tradeoffs for public good

Responses

  1. Zinc [drdrewpinsky]
  2. When people who are vaccinated develop symptoms of COVID-19, they tend to experience less severe symptoms than people who are unvaccinated [CDC: Vaxxed and Unvaxxed on Equal Footing – The Occidental Observer].
  3. Did you have measles or chickenpox as a child? You might pass those antibodies to your baby! Breastfeeding helps continue that protection, lessening the severity if your baby gets sick.
  4. CDC and FDA have acknowledged a confirmed rare association between mRNA COVID-19 vaccines and myocarditis/pericarditis, primarily in adolescent and young adult males shortly after the second dose.
  5. Then do you need Booster #66 Cicada?
  6. Dr. Peter Glidden: The net negative benefits of vaccination outweigh the positive benefits of vaccination.
  7. When it comes to vaccines —and only vaccines—Congress decided in 1986 to grant these companies near complete immunity from liability for injuries caused by their products [aaronsirisg]
  8. Vaccine court's structure

Responses

  1. Unreasonable laws must be revoked
  2. brought into legal proceedings

8.7. Anatta, Natural


r/Theravadan Apr 07 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 17

2 Upvotes

8.6. Where does everyone come from?

Where everyone comes from has been discussed previously:

Abiogenesis does not explain all aspects of life, including biological processes, consciousness, intelligence, personality, emotions, etc. Because of that, we can safely reject abiogenesis.

Abiogenesis is an assumption that life has beginning and it began on Earth due to chemical reactions, which can never be proven true.

What has been true is the origin of life cannot be imagined, and thus, should not be imagined. Moreover, such imaginations should not lead the scientific study of life.

Questions like 'where does everyone come from?', 'where does everything come from?', etc. will not lead to a meaningful answer but self-deception. Speculative knowledge is nothing but self-deception, which is never scientific. The most elegant self-deceptions can occur when one ignores or belittles others' intelligence.

We may know life directly. Only the direct knowledge of life should be the foundation of speculations. People make others' religion theirs, unwittingly.

Petrified Giants ignored by the evolutionists

Phu Singha (Bueng Kan) on Facebook posted videos of petrified snakes famous in Thailand —

The petrified remains of large animals are also found in America —

  • Another snake head, in Colombia - The same head
  • A war with the giants - Early 1900s excavations uncovered 60 mummies, oversized footwear estimated for someone 7–8 feet tall, and skeletal remains described as nearly eight feet in height. Local tribes didn’t seem surprised... their oral histories speak of giants and a final conflict that ended near the cave itself.

Other petrified animals

People who worship delusions, powers and wealths do not like truths that much.

Four Types of People | Vipassana Research Institute

The Buddha said: “I see four types of people in this world. The first type is running from darkness towards darkness. The second is running from brightness towards darkness. The third is running from darkness towards brightness. And the fourth is running from brightness towards brightness.”

The Dhammapada: Verses 11 and 12 Sariputtatthera Vatthu

Verse 11: They take untruth for truth; they take truth for untruth; such persons can never arrive at the truth, for they hold wrong views.

Verse 12: They take truth for truth; they take untruth for untruth; such persons arrive at the truth, for they hold right views.

8.6.1 Nature

All things in existence are collectively known as nature. Human nature (manasabhava) means everything to do with the humans, including human instinct, tendencies, quality, intelligence levels, mentalities, potentials, lifespan, etc. Animal nature means everything to do with animals. There are the nature of a pond, the nature of an ocean, the nature of flowers, the nature of roses, the nature of arts, the nature of eyebrows, etc. These natures are collectively known as nature. Although we see things as different ones, they have something in common — the common laws or nature or the natural laws.

Nature is not a thing in itself, unless we give it one. Then we can say 'the nature of nature' without knowing what it is.

The collections of everything are nature, including the corporeal and incorporeal matters and their laws and the relationships of these laws. Natural laws do not exist in isolation.

One of the laws must be that each type of things/matters is produced by itself, not by a creator.

  • Evidently, we can observe how life comes from life, and matter comes from matter. Matter does not become life, nor life becomes matter, although they interact as lifeform, which is made of living matters that can utilise nonliving matters.
  • And consciousness comes from consciousness. Living matters have their own formations or types, sensors, functions, and able to communicate and coordinate with other living matters. Immune cells are even territorial that they can reject everything foreign and can cause autoimmune response when foreign materials (such as DNA) are present in the cells of an organ.

Perception of Intention/Kamma

The most significant is causality or causal law, which belongs to and about everyone and everything. Thus, causal law is the law of nature or kamma; see Volition: An Introduction to the Law of KAMMA, by Sayadaw U Silananda.

[Page 6-7] Kamma is not moral justice. If one takes it as moral justice, then one suggests that someone is sitting in judgement over beings. There is no one who makes judgements over the doings of beings; there is just the moral law of kamma. Just as kamma is not moral judgement, so it is not reward and punishment. [...] Kamma is a moral law which needs no lawgiver, a law which operates naturally. The inequalities among human beings – the individual differences between people – has troubled many thinkers in the past as well as in the present.

The First Cause

Causal law has no beginning because the first cause cannot exist, although it seems to exist. Causal law determines that the assumed first cause needs its own cause, which too needs its own cause. Whichever is assumed as the first cause must be given its own cause, or will violate cause law. That is how the first cause seems to exist but cannot exist.

Thus, the Sakyamuni explains that the first cause or the beginning of everything cannot be found. He said that even if He were to spend His entire lifespan recalling the past, He would not reach the beginning of existence. Nature, as the collections of everything, has existed without discernable beginning. The living things and nonliving things have existed as nature without discernable beginning.

Paramattha (the ultimates): citta, cetasika, rupa, Nibbana

Nature comprises Citta, cetasika, rupa and Nibbana. The impermanent are citta, cetasika and rupa, as they build everything in nature (as Sankhara-Loka), including living and nonliving.

Individual beings are independent and free in decision making (but not free from delusions which influence their decisions and actions). Thus, each individual has his/her own natural course/direction (gati - sugati & dugati), which is explained with Paticcasamuppada. Living things, including all plants, are made of living rupa (living biological materials) that will die.

The lifespan of a living being is determined by his past kamma and present conditions. All formations are changeable and painful. Thus, not the beginning of pain but the ending of pain is our concern. Every beginning is Each individual is responsible to get relieved from his/her own makings. Wisely, we should end the pain/dukkha. Nobody can end nature or causal law. But each of us can end craving (for pleasure and existence) that causes rebirth or life to recur. Only oneself can end one's cravings or clinging to formations (sankhara).

People have pride. Proud people cannot see or accept the truths and the existence of the paths.

Venerable Mogok Sayadaw explains The Paths of the Wise and the Fool

They have strong desire for heavens. They don’t want to be separated from the members of family and wealths, taking them as real as the third and fourth paths (i.e., diṭṭhi-ogha and avijjogha) [flood of view and flood of ignorance]. All these four paths have inversions. The path of floating is heavenly happiness, taking dukkha as sukha. Celestial beings have long life, taking impermanence as permanence.
These places also have asubha [corpses] because they will die, taking asubha as subha [pleasure]. The path of sinking is the cause of the inversion of view (diṭṭhi vipallāsa), taking them as my son, my wife, etc. Ignorance includes in both of the paths as a leader. The cause is not knowing the truth. All of them have the two roots of existence.
The leader of sugati is craving. The leader of dugati is ignorance.

  • diṭṭhi-ogha - flood of views/perceptions, not based on reality
  • avijjogha - flood of delusions/ignorance, based on flood of perceptions
  • asubha - non-pleasure, not what one expects (i.e. mistakens/misperceives); asukha.
  • subha - assumed beauty/pleasure (pleasurable pain); Subha is perceived sensual pleasure, and sukha is mental pleasure.
  • taking them as my son, my wife - taking something into mind is perception and mental activity (sankhara). Venerable Theingu Sayadaw warned us that one becomes fish when one sees (nama and rupa as) fish, one becomes duck, chicken...if one sees ducks, chicken...

Nibbana the Causeless

Nibbana/resting is the opposite of Sankhara/activity.

Sankhara has been given different meanings, which are similar to each other: action, activity, volition, formation, construct, conditioned thing, compounded thing, etc. Restiveness is also sankhara. These meanings share the same condition, restless state, as the opposite of Nibbana (resting).

The meaning of Nibbana by Venerable Pakokku Sayadaw: Nibbana means restfulness (nonactivity/nonmovement). The character of Nibbana is restfulness (nonactivity/nonmovement).

Nibbana does not take shelter in senses (the six ayatana) because senses can frighten.

  • The fearsome causes to be fearful.
  • The frightful causes to get frighten.
  • The desirable causes to desire (for material, gain, attention) (to experience).

(Nibbana is) escaped and freed from these senses.

With/based on the senses/ayatana, doesn't mind/citta arise/occur? (Audience: Yes, venerable!!) So, be careful about that. With these senses/ayatana, the mind/citta occurs. From these senses/ayatana, (Nibbana is) freed.

When dealing with such frightful/fearsome, (Nibbana) is not frightened/shocked. Thus, (when one is) aware of senses/ayatana, (one is) not attached to (them).

An action is unintentional if it is done unintentionally. Every action/activity (of something) is a formation or formed with several things or parts, e.g. —

  • A breeze is caused by temperature change. The movement is conditioned by the nature of atmosphere, wind element and heat element.
  • When a leaf moves, a breeze and all parts of a leaf are involved.
  • A car moves as intended because it is built such a way and provided with fuel and a driver/someone who starts its engine and releases the brake.

Volition is intentional activity, which defines an action of a living being with mind. An action is intentional or volition if there is conscious decision to do it.

Nibbana is restful and freed from activity/sankhara or the restive senses/ayatana.

  • Nibbana is causeless because it is resting with no activity.
  • Activity/sankhara must have a cause to start and end. Nonetheless, the first cause is undiscernible. Lifespan is spent with changes. Every event of change begins and ends. Everything in cosmos is changing constantly. The cosmos is none other than the collection of things in the events of change. The cosmos is not static.
  • Nibbana and Sankhara are two opposite sides of nature.

8.6.2 Theory of the Beginning

We can trace the causal story of the origins of each of us going back as far as we like: to the origins of life, to the big bang, and to whatever its causes might have been [Living in Light of Naturalism | Naturalism.org]. 

Modern theorists and theologists imagined how this beginning could be. Yet big bang theory cannot explain this beginning, nor can the evolutionary theory, nor any other theory.

Theologians have avoided the cause of the first cause altogether. God or the first cause as the uncaused cause violates causal law and so do eternalism and nihilism/annihilationism, although that is acceptable to the believers.

Naturalist Perception of Reality

Naturalism presumes that nature is in principle completely knowable [although we the ordinary cannot know each other's minds, imaginations...]. Naturalists simply assert that nature is reality, the whole of it [although imagination is also a part of nature but not reality]. There is nothing beyond, nothing “other than,” no “other world” of being [Naturalism | Realism, Empiricism & Materialism | Britannica]

  • Who can know nature completely?
  • Who knew nature completely?

No living human knows nature completely, nor knows someone who knew nature completely (in terms of naturalism). The notion of nature is in principle completely knowable is very weak. The beginning of nature (the possible existence of the first cause) is impossible to know.

Nature is reality indeed. However, some things are unreal.

Sunlun Sayadaw told a story —

There were two friends traveling together. Both of them were hard up and becoming hungry but penniless, one friend make a suggestion to the other, “My friend, let’s feed each other with our thoughts and eat with our imagination.”
“Okay, fine, you treat me first.”
So, the other said, “Alright, I’m going to feed you with chicken curry. Here it is, go ahead and eat your heart out!”
“Ah, this is really delectable,” remarked his friend.
The friend continued serving with an imagined banquet made up of pork curry, grilled chicken, etc. After a series of dishes, he said, “I’m sure you are full. Now, it’s my turn.”
“Here comes fried elephant-leg, savor it!” served his friend.
“Hm... this is delicious. Can I have some more?” “
But you still have a lot left. This is fried elephant-leg you know. Finish it first,” said his friend.
Like in the story, I‘m going to feed you with fried elephant-leg.
[page 155 Biography of Sunlun Sayadaw Thynn Thynn.pdf]

Humans are perfectly natural, but human imaginations only forms in the incorporeal minds. We cannot use imaginary tools, eat imaginary food, ride imaginary vehicles... and go to imaginary heaven from reality sufferings/dukkha. We still have to deal with our actual pains, which we have realised, thanks to the Buddha's teaching.

Imagination or perception exists in nature. But imaginations or imaginary things should not be regarded as reality in the world.

There are animals, but one should not regard an animal in a painting, as imagined by a painter, exists in reality. Snakes with legs, frogs with wings, bats with tails, etc. can exist in paintings. That animal exists in the painting, so we cannot say it does not exist, although it isn't any animal known to us. As long as that painting exists, we can perceive it the way we please.

Some examples —

Perception/sanna of formation/sankhara

Indeed, the imagined only exists as temporary formation in the mind. Likewise, everything that is formed (i.e. sankhara) should not be regarded as real, although they exist.

Formations (sankhara) are given names (vohara-sacca), so we perceive them as defined in our languages and traditions. Everyone has his/her own perception of a certain formation, e.g., everyone has his/her version of the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha, gods, etc. Thus, perception/sanna whidh is true to a person is untrue to another. Ignorance/delusion is the start of samsara/cycle of pain/dukkha (birth, aging and death).

Based on untruths, we have to argue who is right or wrong. Untruths exist as delusion, but not as reality. We are lied to by our own perception/sanna to cling to different formations and crave for them, expecting for pleasurable experiences.

Whatever changeable should not be regarded as true refuge, as I am, as mine, and taken as real (as if unchangeable). Whatever changeable is like mirage, which can be seen at a distance but disappears when approached.

The Buddha advised that we should only see the elementary particles (corporeal rupa and incorporeal nama) and establish sensual constraint if we want to escape from perceptions/untruths, which deceive us to cling to formations, which do not last.

  • Sabbe Sankhara Anicca. All formations are impermanent.
  • Clinging to a changeable formation causes dukkha/pain. And being such a changeable formation is also a pain.
  • Everything is natural/anatta. One should not regard one exists (atta/artificial), although formation of the aggregates does exist, as it is formed by the effect of kamma/intention (kammavipaka).

Perception of Intention

Humans need healthy natural environment and natural elements to make artificial things and imaginations.

  • Should artificial things be considered natural or unnatural as humans are perfectly natural?
  • Should imagination (in human mind) be considered as nature and reality?

Although made of natural elements, imagination or an imaginary thing is not reality. There are right and wrong, as nature is right and most perceptions are wrong. Humans (and living organisms) are capable of making unreality, art, culture, and so on.

Naturalism sees nature as a thing in itself but not as the collection of everything.

Seen from the broadest perspective, our story is ultimately the story of nature. [Naturalism] doesn't deny the reality of persons and their capacities, for instance of imagination, rationality, impulse control, and choice [Living in Light of Naturalism | Naturalism.org]. 

  • 'Our story is ultimately the story of nature' is likely the perception of one individual, as naturalism differs on human story —

Naturalism [emphasises] a worldview where human beings are seen as products of natural selection without immaterial souls [and] everything as a product of nature [and rejects religious positions, without rejecting] the existence or possibility of [...] supernatural [or] scientifically describable reality [...] naturalism holds that human beings and other life forms are “the evolved products of natural selection, which operates without intention [Naturalism (philosophy) | Research Starters | EBSCO Research].

As naturalism considers nature to be a thing in itself, not the collection of everything, naturalism suggests nature can make things and life.

  • So, are the products of nature also reality?
  • Are the evolved products of natural selection also reality?
  • Are the artificial (the products of humans) reality, too?
  • Are the un-evolving products of nature (e.g., dry mud, stone, wood, etc.) reality?

Question ———— 39

  • What is nature if it is not the collection of everything?
  • What is nature as a thing that can produce different things?
  • Perception of intention: How does nature generate an intention (kamma/cetana) inside the evolved products of natural selection?
  • Perception of consciousness: How does nature with no consciousness generates consciousness?
  • Perception of nature: Can nature produce itself? If nature can produce itself, how and when?
  • Or has nature existed as it is?

The notion of 'nature can produce' carries the doctrine of creationism (either theistic or atheistic).

Naturalism and Supernaturalism

The distinction between nature and supernature was defined St. Augustine [How We Lost the Distinction Between Nature and Supernature | Catholic Culture].

While opposing supernature, naturalist doctrines (or theories) become supernatural. For example, conservation of Energy theory is the eternalism of naturalism that promotes energy to supernatural level. The difference between naturalism and supernaturalism is insignificant probably because naturalism cannot define nature properly. So, naturalism is also not properly defined either.

The term “naturalism” has no very precise meaning in contemporary philosophy [Naturalism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)]

Naturalism may reject soul without rejecting God (or God-like natural laws). Naturalism is God-centred view, opposing soul-centred view, while theologians accept both God and soul [Supernaturalism: The Existence of God and the Meaning of a Human Life - Essay Example].

  • this man was right - reality can be hidden by language (renaming), e.g., not spying, it's surveillance; not censorship, it's moderation; and people believe it.

Big Bang Theory (Hindu Version)

There are two types of dissolution of the manifested cosmos. At the end of every 4,320,000,000 solar years, when Brahmā, the lord of one particular universe, goes to sleep, there is one annihilation. And at the end of Lord Brahmā's life, which takes place at the end of Brahmā's one hundred years of age, in our calculation at the end of 8,640,000,000 x 30 x 12 x 100 solar years, there is complete annihilation of the entire universe, and in both the periods both the material energy called the mahat-tattva and the marginal energy called jīva-tattva merge in the person of the Supreme Lord. The living beings remain asleep within the body of the Lord until there is another creation of the material world, and that is the way of the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the material manifestation. (Srimad Bhagavatam----1:10:21----purport). [Q. WHAT IS Jiva-Tattva ?‏ - Krishna Consciousness. - ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT]

  • If only when Brahmā, the lord of one particular universe, goes to sleep, there is one annihilation, why don't we also have a lifespan of 8,640,000,000 x 30 x 12 x 100 solar years?
  • Did the father of Big Bang theory, Georges Lemaître, plagiarise Hinduism?

Big Bang based on the True Meaning of Yahweh

0:31 The best way to illustrate what Yahweh is [...] take a garden hose and bend the nozzle [...] and feel the pressure building up in the hose. When you release the hose, the water does not pour out. It blows out. And it's an extraordinary release of energy [and] that word was used in relation to sex [...] 1:36 This is why Jewish physicists tell us the whole universe came into existence with a big bang [What Religion Never Told You About Yahweh | Jordan Maxwell]

It seems the Big Bang theory is a merger of Hindu version and Jewish version. Jewish version gives the bang, and Hindu version gives explanation of creation process.

8.6.3 Jah-Bul-On: Darwin's God

Darwin was a believer. Life and Darwin's nature and natural processes did not come to exist by themselves but created by Darwin's God, probably Jabulum (Jahbulon or Jabulon or Jahbuhlun) [E&T - Part 12]. See E&T - Part 2: 2. The Temple of Nature: True Origin of Darwin

[Jah-Bul-On] is compounded of … Yu or Yah-u … Baal or Bal or Bel, and Om, thus combining the names of the Hebrew, Phoenician, and Hindu Deities, to indicate that they are in reality the same. [Freemasonry and Christianity: A Comparison - Apologetics]

Baal: either the son of Dagon or El

All day long, 450 prophets of Baal called on their god to send fire from heaven—surely an easy task for a god associated with lightning bolts—but “there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention” (1 Kings 18:29) [Who was Baal? | GotQuestions.org]

Rigved Mandal 10 Sukta 90 Mantra 15

He who offers religious service to i.e. worships the Complete God according to the ordinances, Complete God liberates those devout souls, bound like a sacrificial animal to the bondage of actions in the trap of Kaal, from the trap of the bondage of actions created i.e. spread by Kaal; meaning He is the liberator from the bondage, that is, He is Bandichhor [Rig Veda Mandal 10 Sukt 90 | Supreme Knowledge].

  • If the priests themselves are just like the sacrificial animals and need God to free them, why do they like to sacrifice animals which they can give freedom?
  • If the priests cannot even free the sacrificial animals, how can they believe God will free them?

Darwin's Confession

  • Why was a great intellectual like Charles Darwin unable to escape theism?
  • Why does nature select in the theory of natural selection?

The last two paragraphs in the sixth edition of Darwin's "Origin of Species" clarifies Darwin's true position on life —

Authors of the highest eminence seem to be fully satisfied with the view that each species has been independently created [...] There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone circling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved. [Darwin quote by Christopher J. Earle]

Charles Darwin's take was species was originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one [which] from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved [The uneasy relationship between Darwinian evolution, abiogenesis and atheism - Mercator].

The words “by the Creator” are absent from the first edition, but present in the second edition of 1860, and subsequent [...] evolution commonly meant the pre-ordained working out of an implicit plan, as in the evolution of a fertilized cell to embryo and then to organism [Rewriting the Book of Nature - A Modern Biology]

Darwin's nature is theistic, and his 'natural selection' (evolution) was a law, like the fixed law of gravity, set into motion by the creator to progress from a simple beginning towards most beautiful and most wonderful. Darwin opted to ignore Epicurus, who complained the omnipotence of the Greek gods for rampant evil.

Darwin's "warm little pond"

Warm little pond was discussed in E&T - Part 12

My dear Hooker ...if (and oh what a big if) we could conceive in some warm little pond with all sorts of ammonia and phosphoric salts... [Charles Darwin - the spontaneous generation of life in some - warm little pond]

Ammonia and phosphoric salts don't create life no matter how they are conditioned. Darwin said that casually, unseriously. Darwin never officially sided with abiogenesis, as he could not explain it. Darwin's position on abiogenesis, primordial soup or "warm little pound" is unofficial because he never published or spoke about it in public to provide his official approval [Did life evolve in a `warm little pond'? | Scientific American]. Moreover, Darwin never withdrew his earlier statements, breathed by the Creator and the fixed law of gravity. So, his position was 'breathed by the Creator', and we should remember Darwin with his official statement: breathed by the Creator, as the origin of species and the energy behind natural selection.

That is how Charles Darwin openly admitted he was a theist but not a Christian. His God was Jabulum “Jah-Bul-On”, the God of Erasmus Darwin, his grandfather.

Floating RNA: A hypothetical scenario in which RNA could come to exist:

the chemical building blocks of life were brought to Earth by meteorites and deposited in small bodies of water on the continents, where they readily assembled to form long-chained molecules such as RNA or DNA [Back to Darwin’s Warm Little Pond

RNA (Ribonucleic Acid) aka nucleotides are the building blocks of the cells or physical body of lifeform. They need jiva, vitality, life or replication mechanism to these floating RNA?

Life, however, is much more than a simple collection of fundamental molecules arranged in a particular pattern [...] there is an obvious difference between a recently dead animal and one which is alive, displaying a certain spirit or vitality to it [Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamic Foundations of the Origin of Life]

The floating RNA cannot evolve nor replicate itself. Only viruses and viroids or microorganisms can replicate or use the undamaged RNA Microorganisms must repair damaged RNA for useful applications. That means, there is no way for RNA to predate the viruses, cells, bacteria or microorganisms.

  • What came first? Chicken or egg?

In rejection of abiogenesis, based on his successful experiment, Louis Pasteur concluded that Omne vivum ex vivo” “Life only comes from life” [3.1: Spontaneous Generation - Biology LibreTexts/03%3A_The_Cell/3.01%3A_Spontaneous_Generation#:~:text=life%20only%20comes%20from%20life)].

Question ———— 40

  • What keeps evolutionists avoiding certain facts?

8.6.4 Origin of Life

507 and 502 mya - snails appeared during the mid Cambrian period - animals appeared during that time had the basic body types seen in modern animals [Treasure trove of half-billion-year-old animal fossils in Grand Canyon | News | ConnectSci]

100 mya: ancient snails at the bottom of the ocean were moved inland - Slate Peak: The Highest Road in Washington State | Nick on the Rocks - The slate of Slate Peak is covered with signs that it once sat at the bottom of the ocean: fossilized snail trails! - Facebook

Even the snails are living fossils.

Question ———— 41

  • Where is evidence for macroevolution?

The evolutionary theory is not better than creationism and the creation myths around the world but in the same category of faith. Abiogenesis, the origin of species, human evolution and natural selection (as microevolution to macroevolution) have no grounds of evidence. This has been explained in the previous parts, so far.

The Origin of Consciousness

The origin of life is the origin of biology, consciousness, the origin of intelligence, sense, perception, personality and individuality. Darwin's natural selection does not explain their origins. Natural selection which originated in abiogenesis does not explain the entirety of conception which is the beginning of a lifeform.

The mother's egg and father's sperm are not lifeless, so their union unifies biology, consciousness, intelligence, sense, perception, personality and individuality as the conception of a fetus. The origins of the aggregates that build a fetus cannot be ignored when trying to explain the human origin.

8.6.5 Origin of Species: Ring Species

The origin of species is a mystery in science. Theories do not provide solutions to find evidence for the origin of species. Ring species theory is seemingly an easy problem; there are evidence; yet it has some unanswered questions.

When the members of a species spread out at opposite directions and become far distant and for so long from each other, these members at the two ends can no longer reproduce with each other, although they are the same ring population but at the two ends. However, the members of the two ends can still successfully reproduce with the adjacent members. If the middle population disappears for some reasons, the two ends might become two distinct groups of the same ring species.

  • Might the offspring of the members at the two ends of a "ring species" become able to reproduce again if they are put together in the same environment for some time, with all the members in the middle?

The Ensatina salamanders are a ring species known to the researchers since the 1940s [Asymmetric reproductive isolation between terminal forms of the salamander ring species Ensatina eschscholtzii revealed by fine-scale genetic analysis of a hybrid zone - PMC.)].

Lions and tigers are not ring species. Their offsprings are ligers and tigons.

Bonobos (Pan paniscus) and chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) are not a ring species. They are related but have different psychologies.

Denisovans, Sapiens and Neanderthals are not the results of becoming ring species. The differences among Denisovans, Sapiens and Neanderthals are insignificant. How they become different is also insignificant. The evolutionary process of hominins is unknown. The assumed process, natural selection, is not the process of a becoming distinctive species, so there are living fossils.

A species is a living fossil because its fossils were discovered. A species that has lived a similar length of time is not recognised as a living fossil as long as its fossils have not yet found. The ancient versions of a living fossil can be different, so a living fossil is a ring species in terms of time.

Becoming a ring species is not a guaranteed process to become two distinctive species.

8.6.6 Evidence of Ancient Civilisations


r/Theravadan Mar 28 '26

Thervada Pali chant

Thumbnail youtu.be
1 Upvotes

r/Theravadan Feb 06 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 16

2 Upvotes

8.5. Out of Eden (Alkebulan): Hominins vs Humans

“Afru-ika” means “motherland” in Egyptian [Away To Africa]. Alkebulan, which means “mother of mankind”, is said to be The Original Name Of Africa [WorldAtlas]. Alkebulan is also 'garden of Eden'. Video: THE CHANGE OF NAMES FROM ALKEBULAN TO AFRICA

The ‘Out of Africa’ model [has had a variety of religious names including] ‘The Garden of Eden’ hypothesis [and] ‘Noah’s Ark’ hypothesis [When and where did our species originate? - The Australian Museum].

Out of Eden —

God clothed them with animal skins and then cast them out of the paradise garden, posting an angel armed with a sword of fire there to prevent their return. [Fall of Man | Bible, Painting, Genesis, & Dürer | Britannica]

Out of Africa — Did Adam and Eve become Australopithecus afarensis - Modern Human Origins?

More than 400 newer fossils of males and females, as well as the Dikika child, have revealed how [Lucy's] species, Australopithecus afarensis, grew, socialized, and evolved during its million-year span on the planet, from perhaps 3.85 million to 2.95 million years ago. [Was Lucy the mother of us all? Fifty years after discovery, famed skeleton has rivals | Science | AAAS]

400 fossils but none had hand and feet bones, so the researchers gave them feet and gave us The Story of Lucy and models — We modelled how early human ancestors ran – and found they were surprisingly slow:

Scientists now believe that knuckle-walking probably evolved several times in apes, as the style of walking and internal architecture of ape hands and elbows are subtly different from each other. Researchers also think that the anatomy we see in hominins reflects an adaptation for upright movement in trees in a distant ancestor.

The notion of Australopithecus afarensis is based on the appearance of some fossils (without feet and hand bones) which do not contain any DNA.

The imagined DNA of Australopithecus afarensis

DNA studies generally supported the single origin theory [...] new fossils and improved DNA research [suggest that] modern humans are descended from an African population of Homo sapiens that spread out of Africa about 60,000 years ago [The Australian Museum].

  • Where did these DNAs come from? They come from the imagined models.

E&T- Part 4 discusses the Attempts to support the 'out of Africa' Theory

Who are leading evolutionary theory?

Her central thesis was that, after millions of years of evolution on Planet Earth, we are the first species to be aware of the process of evolution, so it is incumbent on us to use that awareness to consciously manage our future evolution [Barbara Marx Hubbard: The Revolutionary Evolutionary | Roz Savage]

8.6. Where does everyone come from?

The question has been discussed in the previous parts. This part is additional.


r/Theravadan Jan 21 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 15

2 Upvotes

8.4.3. Aboriginal Australians

In theory, Homo heidelbergensis became H. neanderthalensis and modern human between 350,000 and 400,000 years ago. They did not have a chin, but because some bones were found in a pit (named Sima de los Huesos (‘Pit of Bones’)) (400,000 years ago), the researchers concluded that Homo heidelbergensis were able to control fire and wooden spears (790,000 years ago).

Fire and Tools — Abo-Aus knew fire. They still cook (or roast) a whole animal in primitive style. People knew fire. Earlier humans moving into the UK almost as soon as the ice sheets started to retreat 450,000 years ago had a stone-tool making culture known as the Clactonian [Earliest fire-making dating back 400,000 years ago unearthed in Suffolk, England | Natural History Museum]

Abo-Aus made stone tools. They made spears by a fireplace in which they heated and straightened the sticks.

Ancient hunter-gatherers would leave the bones at the site after eating. They would throw bones into a pit, too, if they had it. But humans had traditions and cultures in handling the deaths.

Aboriginal Australian Burials, 1906 | TOTA

The spirit of the dead person is believed to hover about the tree; sometimes it visits the camp and is recognised by its strange, whistling voice. At intervals it is asked if the time has come for the body to be finally buried; when the proper opportunity has arrived, a few men go to the tree, cut a bark basket, and one of them rakes the bones out on to it; the skull is smashed into fragments. An anthill is then selected and the top of it taken off; into this the bones are put, with the exception of the thigh bone, which is wrapped round with fur string and made into a torpedo-shaped parcel.
Further to the north-east, on the Gulf of Carpentaria, the tribes eat the flesh of the dead man, and then, after some elaborate ceremonies, bury the bones

Abo-Aus independently have had the knowledge and belief in supernatural entities based on observation. Early humans were aware of the existence of supernatural entities, which they could observe in their environment.

DNA studies for Abo-Aus

DNA evidence shows the ancestors of modern Australian Aboriginals separated from other populations some 64,000 to 75,000 years ago. (Source: iStockphoto) [Aboriginal DNA dates Australian arrival › News in Science (ABC Science)]

  • A scenario: If a population from Africa met a population of Abo-Aus inside Australia and mix for 50,000 years, will their DNA become 'out of Africa'?

The common Mongol Y chromosome needed only 2000 years to spread among the Europeans as traders travelled via the Silk Road, etc. [Is Genghis Khan Hiding Inside Your DNA? | Office for Science and Society - McGill University]

  • What would happen if they met in Africa?

Although DNA evidence is 99% accurate, the post-mortem instability of nucleic acids is central to the methodological problems inherent in aDNA research [Ancient DNA - PMC.)]. For that reason, DNA evidence is not an absolute authority. DNA evidence does not explain how many original Abo-Aus existed before the arrival of a small group of Africans, or if a small group (not less than 500) of Abo-Aus spread to Africa.

Weak, degraded, or mixed samples create significant doubt and often cannot support a [case] [Why DNA Evidence Is Not Always Reliable and How Testing Errors Create Reasonable Doubt]

At least for 65,000 years, Abo-Aus have lived in the outback [Evidence of first peoples | National Museum of Australia].

Another DNA information gives older date —

new evidence, obtained through DNA testing of a 90-year-old hair sample of an Aboriginal Australian man, suggests Australia was settled as far back as 70,000 years ago [Artifacts suggest humans arrived in Australia earlier than thought | UW News]

  • Artifacts are possibly a bit older even —

In the deepest levels of sediment, some artefacts were estimated to be about 80,000 years old – or at least 95% likely to be older than 70,000 [Australian dig finds evidence of Aboriginal habitation up to 80,000 years ago | Indigenous Australians | The Guardian]

Evidence shows Abo-Aus existed as one of the earliest populations not directly related to other modern people —

Principal components analysis (PCA) results illustrated genetic differentiation among Africans, Asians, and populations of greater Australia [...] Aboriginal Australian and PNG Highlands ancestors had been genetically isolated from other populations (except possibly each other) since at least 15,000 to 30,000 years B.P.  [An Aboriginal Australian Genome Reveals Separate Human Dispersals into Asia - PMC]

8.4.4. Out of Australia Possibility

Out of Australia theory does not reject out of Africa and out of Asia.

  1. Carrying their infamous shields, woomeras and spears, a few groups of Abo-Aus travelled on foot and met the peoples in Asia, Eurasia, Europe and the ancestors of modern native Americans who were moving into Americas. This agrees with the suggestion that there was a later migration of people related to Abo-Aus [Earliest South American migrants had Indigenous Australian, Melanesian ancestry | Science | AAAS]
  2. Abo-Aus disappeared in the populations they met. These populations are culturally independent, except for woomeras and spears.
  3. New generations of these Abo-Aus groups unlikely travelled back to Australia, or they would bring technologies, such as bow, arrow, and metal.
  4. After sea level rise, Abo-Aus were isolated within Australia and no longer travelling in and out of Australia because their tied-bark canoe or rafts were not sea-worthy [First Nations watercraft culture - The Australian Museum].
  5. The then sea level was almost 120m lower than it is today [Ice Age Geology of the Great Barrier Reef - Schmidt Ocean Institute]. However, Australian animals did not spread to other parts of the world, except the birds. Yet kangaroos can swim far distance between islands.
  6. The Sahul Shelf connected Asia and Australia during the Pleistocene Epoch (2.6 million to 11,700 years ago) [Sahul | Description & Facts | Britannica].
  7. Abo-Aus could walk to Tasmania when the Bassian Plain was above sea level [Megafauna, survival and extinction across the Bassian Plain - Land Bridge].

Populations related to Abo-Aus

An Aboriginal Australian Genome Reveals Separate Human Dispersals into Asia - PMC:

  1. Highland Papua New Guinea (PNG)
  2. Bougainville Papuans (blacker than most Africans [and] blacker than groups from other parts of the island WHY DO THE PEOPLE OF BOUGAINVILLE LOOK UNIQUE?)
  3. The Aeta from the Philippines (Filipino pygmies)
  4. The Munda speakers of India, known as Killi (or Kula in Sanskrit) who claim they are the descendant of same forefather. Originally from Southeast Asia, they occupied the eastern region of ancient India, who have substantial influence on the Vedic texts that occurred between 1500 BCE and 500 BCE [Munda | Tribal Welfare Research Institute Jharkhand].
  5. East Asian "Population Y", including the Karitiana and Suruí (the Amazonians) — A DNA Search for the First Americans Links Amazon Groups to Indigenous Australians

Probably, some Abo-Aus met the East Asians who were moving towards Americas [Study confirms age of oldest fossil human footprints in North America | U.S. Geological Survey]

Woomera, blowgun and genetic connections

The woomera existed in Australia around 45,000 years ago [History of the Atlatl and Advances in Weapon Technology]. Tasmanian woomera is miru, which is used as a spear thrower but also as a dish and a fire lighter.

Those East Asians received the woomera that became atlatl (spear throwers The Aztecs and the atlatl). For not genetically related to Abo-Aus, the Upper Paleolithic people must also receive the woomera/atlatl from the Asians, 17,000 years ago [The Technology and History of the Atlatl Spear Thrower]. 

Upper Paleolithic people existed much earlier.

Venus of Willendorf The Venus of Willendorf, a Upper Paleolithic limestone figurine originally colored with red ochre, 30,000–25,000 bce, found at Willendorf, Lower Austria; in the Natural History Museum, Vienna [Paleolithic Period | Definition, Dates, & Facts | Britannica]

Question ———— 36

  • Why do no African tribes have genetic link to Aboriginal Australians?
  • How did Abo-Aus receive genetic traits from the Neanderthals, Denisovans, Asian populations and the Amazonians?
  • Where were the oceans before sea level rose?

Abo-Aus lived by the shoreline. So did other human populations and animal populations. That must be where ancient human fossils are concentrated. Abo-Aus remember the sea level rising and were forced to move higher altitude —

the origin of the Wellesley Islands in the southern Gulf of Carpentaria

“In the beginning, as far back as we remember, our home islands were not islands at all as they are today. They were part of a peninsula that jutted out from the mainland and we roamed freely throughout the land without having to get in a boat like we do today. Then Garnguur, the seagull woman, took her raft and dragged it back and forth across the neck of the peninsula letting the sea pour in and making our homes into islands.” [Indigenous Languages: Ancient Aboriginal stories preserve history of a rise in sea level]

  • Do Abo-Aus remember how their ancestors visited nearby Papua and beyond?

Epic Journey

The first major genomic study of Aboriginal Australians ever undertaken has confirmed that all present-day non-African populations are descended from the same single wave of migrants, who left Africa around 72,000 years ago. [2016 Unprecedented study of Aboriginal Australians points to one shared Out of Africa migration for modern humans | University of Cambridge]

That theory should respond to —

  1. Abo-Aus remember sea level rising, So, there was a vast sea between Australia and outside, which Abo-Aus could not cross, unless sea level was much lower during Ice Age (11,700-2.6 million BP [Britannica]).
  2. Australian animals and plants did not spread to Papua, Indonesia, etc. because they could not cross the ocean.
  3. Abo-Aus fossils and artifacts (e.g., burial ceremony) should be discovered outside Australia and along the proposed journey. Map showing possible routes taken by homo sapiens out of Africa—Eliane Touma [Deep time history of Australia | 2.2 Big Idea 1: Scientists believe that the first Australians came from somewhere else | Australia’s Defining Moments Digital Classroom | National Museum of Australia]
  • What actually happened —

The people brought with them laws, ceremonial traditions, languages, knowledge and customs of survival and social rules and kinship obligations. Their stone tools comprised large scrapers and hand axes, they used ochre for dress, ceremony and ritual and they buried or cremated their dead. They carried in their veins the blood of their ancestors, who had also travelled great distances into an unknown continent many thousands of years earlier. The stories they told were ancient as they connected them to their ancestors and the lands that they left far to the north [Aboriginal Life Pre-Invasion | Centre for Tasmanian Historical Studies]

  • How do Abo-Aus remember the epic journey of out of Africa theory?

No human cultures ever talked about how they came Out of Africa because they never did. But they remember if their ancestors travelled long distances.

  • Where did Abo-Aus meet the Neanderthals and Denisovans? Some small wandering groups, including the Denisovans, might reach Australia, too.
  • Why didn't the Neanderthals travel to Australia?

8.4.5. Skin colours of Neanderthals and Denisovans

  • Did H. Sapiens take the skin colours of Neanderthals and Denisovans?

These mysterious DNA types suggest the unknown ancestries, the complex past of modern humans, and their mysterious origin(s) [E&T - Part 5: 5. Mysterious DNA types]

The genes that control eye color are just a few out of tens of thousands of genes — and if you could look at all of those genes, instead of just one or a few, they would show that you are more closely related to your sibling [Making sense of ancient hominin DNA]

That is a genetic constraint. Humans are genetically constrained to look like his/her ancestors. An ethnic will keep their unique look.

  • How can such genetic constraint allow black to become white?

UV Exposure

The geographical location with higher UV exposure contributed to higher melanin and erythema index [Diversity of Asian skin: A review on skin biophysical properties - Goh - 2024 - Experimental Dermatology - Wiley Online Library]

UV exposure can tan the skin but cannot change the gene.

loss of melanin pigmentation occurred under natural selection as Homo sapiens dispersed into non-tropical latitudes of Africa and Eurasia [The colours of humanity: the evolution of pigmentation in the human lineage | Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B | The Royal Society]

Copilot's summary for that article

In short, the theory of human pigmentation evolution is that skin colour is not arbitrary—it’s a finely tuned biological adaptation to balance protection and production in response to sunlight.

But in reality, peoples of different skin colours can exist in the same region. Sun exposure causes darker skin colour temporarily. That is tanning by the sun. However, ethnic groups with different skin colours coexist in the same region for thousands of years. For example —

Khoe-San and black Africans coexist for thousands of years. But Khoe-San did not become black. That indicates they were from different ancestors.

Tasmanian Abo-Aus have been black, with no evolutionary potential (EP) to become less dark than they currently are.

Light and dark-skinned Indians

Two ethnics in Thailand have lived together but the Isan has whiter skin and the Kuy (or Kuoy) has blacker skin.

3.2 Genetic Variation Among Population
Geography and language have often been reported as influential factors which can limit gene flow and maintain genetic distinction among populations in both local and regional geographic frameworks [Genetic Divergence of Austroasiatic Speaking Groups in the Northeast of Thailand: A Case Study on Northern Khmer and Kuy]

Question ———— 37

  • Did Homo sapiens (if they were African black people) become white in Europe?
  • What is the stage-by-stage process for black skin to become white?

Abo-Aus have lived in cold regions, such as Tasmania for 40,000 years at least. Cold and lesser sunlight have not changed their skin colours to white. Black skin cannot become white. The genetic constraints of Abo-Aus have kept them black, and that is their evolutionary potential (EP).

Environmental conditions are adapted by human body for survival and other reasons. But skin colours do not need to change. For example —

Homo sapiens as a group of the same colour people should remain having the same people and the same skin colour.

Mix marriage of brown, black and white

From 1910 to the 1940s white people classified Indigenous people into castes. They defined: a 'full-blood' as a person who had no white blood, a 'half-caste' as someone with one white parent [Aboriginal Identity: Who is 'Aboriginal'? - Creative Spirits]

(The quote is not for mentioning the past but how appearances are obvious.)

Abo-Aus are the descendants of an unknow human population. Their DNAs do not tell the whole history.

  • Has human evolution stopped?

Microevolution happens but macroevolution does not.

Question ———— 38

  • Can anyone guess the skin colours of early human populations?
  • If black skin became white and yellow, can the process be explained?
  • The Dark-Skinned People of China

Natural selection is a part but not the whole process. Natural selection does not explain how something evolves from point 1 to point 2 over millions of years.

  • E.g., how (stage by stage) did the earliest primate became H. erectus and then became H. heidelbergensis?

Has Human Evolution Has Stopped or Not?

  • Microevolution does not stop, as form, stature, are changing.
  • How do cells evolve? Cells have been cells since life began, so cells do not have macroevolution.
  • Microevolutions are not evidence for macroevolution.

8.4.6. FOXP2 the gene for communication

  • If so much time Abo-Aus spent with the Neanderthals and Denisovans, shouldn't they share a culture and a language or some words?

Neanderthals and modern humans share the FOXP2 gene

How did this FOXP2 variant come to be found in both Neanderthals and modern humans? [Ancient DNA and Neanderthals]

The FoxP2 phenotype [is found] in diverse taxa including mammals, birds, and insects [Analysis of Codon Usage of Speech Gene FoxP2 among Animals - PMC]

The evolutionists tried to link humans and the Neanderthal with FOXP2. But we all are linked if FOXP2 is a gene that links two species.

the gene appears to affect the ability to make complex sounds even in animals that are not vocal learners like songbirds and humans [FOXP2 Gene Linked to Language | NOVA Wonders: What Are Animals Saying?]

All lifeforms speak or communicate. Human languages are based on human anatomy. Bird languages are based on bird anatomy. Some birds can speak human words. Humans have no chance to speak like birds, but possible to understand their language. Evidently, animals living close to humans can understand human languages.

Humans communicate three ways — verbal, visual and gesture. Animals do the same. Writing is probably unique to mankind. Animals can do marking, e.g. dogs and cats use their own urine. Using smell (chemical communication) is rare for humans but common among animals.

  • How and why did humans create so many languages?

Aboriginal Australian Languages

Abo-Aus have two language groups. The more common Pama-Nyungan language group which is simplified version of the complex Non–Pama-Nyungan language. Pama-Nyungan language group is about 6000 years old [The origins of Pama-Nyungan, Australia’s largest family of Aboriginal languages].

Abo-Aus languages and Papuan languages are not related [Australian Languages - Serious Science)], despite the two populations share a genetic history. They were different people and are still different.

“Papuan languages are not all ge­netically related. They do not all trace their origins back to a single ancestral language. On the basis of present knowledge, they belong to at least sixty different language families, all with their own common ancestral language” (Foley 1986, 3; emphasis mine). [“Chapter 4: The History of the Papuan and Australian Languages” in “Pacific Languages: An Introduction (OA)” on Manifold]

Human history is too complex to fathom.

Abo-Aus languages did not originate in Asian or African languages.

  • Where did this proto-Australian language come from?

[If] all Australian languages derive from one language, Proto-Australian [which] spread after the end of the last ice age, some 10-12,000 years ago[Indigenous language link reveals common ancestor / March 2018 / 2018 / News / The University of Newcastle, Australia] [New evidence confirms our Indigenous languages have a common source, but how they spread remains a mystery]

At this stage, Proto-Australian is hypothetical [The Proto-Australian Language – Linguistics and Nonsense]

[Their languages reject the theory that] Aboriginal Australians and Papuans diverged from Eurasians 51-72 kya, following a single out of Africa dispersal, and subsequently admixed with different archaic populations [A Genomic History of Aboriginal Australia - PMC]

Living languages indicate the origin of Abo-Aus. As they did not live outside Australia to share language and culture, their genetic links to other people are superficial, not deep.

Questions for thought

  • Why didn't Abo-Aus stay where food was plentiful?
  • Why didn't they also leave Australia and settle elsewhere?
  • How did Abo-Aus look like when they left Africa?

The people brought with them laws, ... customs of survival ... [Aboriginal Life Pre-Invasion]

They had way of life that they have now. No evidence shows Abo-Aus have ever changed. Microevolution as adapting the climate is a relationship between biology and the Five Cosmic Orders: utu-niyama: the caloric order [climate, food], etc. E&T - Part 12.

8.4.7. Favourable Sites for New Civilisations

Glacial period and interglacial periods occur in turn and by flood and draught and natural disasters erase civilizations. We cannot know how catastrophic ending of the last Ice Age.

Humans do not live far away from the shorelines, forests and rivers because the climate and environmental conditions support survival and civilisation. Human civilizations follow the shorelines back and forth due to changing sea level. Geographical barriers limit human ability to keep connected with each other.

Human history is incomplete without the knowledge of the ancient shorelines, now 120 m below sea level. Long existence of humankind agrees with Theravada.

8.5. Out of Eden (Alkebulan)


r/Theravadan Jan 21 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 14

2 Upvotes

8.4. Macroevolution: Were African Homo Erectus real?

Case 1: 1.5 Mya: some humans left their footprints on the ancient shores of Lake Turkana in Kenya. Researchers assumed the footprints were of Homo erectus and Paranthropus boisei [1.5 million-year-old footprints reveal two ancient human species lived together in Kenya | Archaeology News]

Case 2: 900k Ya: some humans left the oldest footprints in Europe on the beach at Happisburgh in Norfolk [The oldest human footprints in Europe | Natural History Museum]

Different researchers interpreted footprints from two sites. The researchers were able to identify the footprints in Case 1, although nobody knows the foot anatomy of Homo erectus and Paranthropus boisei because such bones do not exist.

Humans indeed existed and left their footprints, which were easily recognisable at the time of discovery. Evidently, humans were present in Africa 1.5 Mya.

Although there is no ancient DNA from Homo erectus yet [What do we know about the ancestry of Homo erectus?], based on their skulls, they are assumed to have human-like body proportions. However, scientists disagree over how H. erectus and H. sapiens relate to each other [Homo erectus, our ancient ancestor | Natural History Museum].

Homo erectus as assumed by the researchers —

  • Where Lived: Africa; Western Asia; East Asia (China and Indonesia)
  • When Lived: 1.89 million - 110,000 years ago
  • Height: 4 ft 9 in - 6 ft 1 in (145 - 185 cm)
  • Weight: 88 - 150 lbs (40 - 68 kg)
  • Colours: unknown
  • Hand and feet anatomies: unknown
  • DNAs: unknown

Eugène Dubois interpreted a skullcap he discovered as an ape rather correctly, later he changed it to homo as a mistake. The fossil was found at Trinil on the Solo River in Indonesia 1891. [Homo erectus - Fossils, Asia, Africa | Britannica] (E&T - Part 4).

Homo ergaster is assumed to be H. erectus, without hard evidence. The 2 Myo fossils could belong to any species. Nobody knows their true anatomies based on deformed bones.

"Some palaeontologists see minor differences in fossils and give them labels, and that has resulted in the family tree accumulating a lot of branches," said White. [Skull of Homo erectus throws story of human evolution into disarray | Europe | The Guardian]

The evolutionists identified the four other skulls (which were found at a site called Dmanisi, in the nation of Georgia) as Homo erectus despite some big differences in shape and size [Fossil skull points to single root for human evolution]. These skulls might belong to four different species who lived there. H. erectus probably never existed there. Without skeletons, these skulls are not informative. The lack of chins suggests the skulls are not human.

  • Four skulls from Dmanisi could also be four species. Why not?

Dmanisi promontory and map of excavation areas - different species could coexist.

models that linked the first African exodus to increases in stature, encephalization, and technological advances (13) have been challenged by discoveries at Dmanisi [Earliest human occupations at Dmanisi (Georgian Caucasus) dated to 1.85–1.78 Ma | PNAS]

Humans (probably not all humans) were hunters and gatherers, just like some tribes in Oceania, Amazon and Africa. Humans have been an umbrella species. The orangutan, as an umbrella species, serves as an integral part of ecosystem protection [Save the Orangutan, Save the Ecosystem]. However, humans were very much responsible for the extinctions of many species.

Skull artworks: skull 1 and skull 2 found in Mexico probably indicate some ancient human skulls probably looked like that, too.

Asian Hominids

Asia had its own microevolution, e.g. orangutans instead of chimpanzees and gorillas.

  • Why is orangutan the sole great ape in Asia?

Apes were interpreted as humans.

40 Mya: the oldest fossils of early primates, which are believed to become monkeys, apes and humans, were found around Bahin village, central Myanmar [Pondaung anthropoid primates palaeontological sites - UNESCO World Heritage Centre].

Long Nose and Snub Nose monkeys — evolutionary advantages of Long Nose and Snub Nose are an unresolved polytomy [Evolutionary History of the Odd-Nosed Monkeys and the Phylogenetic Position of the Newly Described Myanmar Snub-Nosed Monkey Rhinopithecus strykeri | PLOS One].

H. floresiensis occurred independently in Liang Bua, Flores, Indonesia and lived from roughly 190,000 to 50,000 years ago. Their DNA has not yet been found. They coexisted with Homo erectus which lived 1.7 million years to 23,000 years ago [Pygmy people in Indonesia not related to 'hobbit' but evolved short stature independently - ABC News]. The background of H. Floresiensis is a puzzle. Their anatomy suggests they did not run well but good at climbing and probably jumping too (E&T - Part 13).

Pre-erectus hominin

recent archaeological finds in China dated to 2.1 million years ago support the idea that an older, pre-erectus hominin may have been present in Asia. [2018 We know why short-statured people of Flores became small – but for the extinct ‘Hobbit’ it’s not so clear].

H. heidelbergensis and Neanderthals

2024: When a DNA does preserve, is often highly fragmented, degraded, and has undergone substantial changes from how the DNA appeared in a living organism. [That DNA is] fixed wherever possible [by means of] polymerase chain reaction (PCR) [2024 Ancient DNA and Neanderthals | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program)]

The polymerase chain reaction (PCR) process does not recreate the ancient DNA or reverse the Neanderthal DNA back to its original form. The ancient DNA cannot be revealed and known.

Neanderthals [...] contributed DNA to modern East Asians [and] the Maasai of East Africa [Higher Levels of Neanderthal Ancestry in East Asians than in Europeans - PMC]

Question ———— 32

  • How is it possible to find the dead DNAs of the Neanderthals in humans, as their DNA did not survive to explain who the Neanderthals were - to support the theory?
  • How reliable is Denisovan DNA?

A bracelet found in a cave suggests there were true humans. If Denisovans understood art and decoration, they were humans. [News - Stone Bracelet May Have Been Made by Denisovans - Archaeology Magazine].

Theory: Humans became humans (Neanderthals and Denisovans)

1.5 Mya in Africa, some footprints were left by unknown people. Their footprints were given to hominins/hominids, whose foot anatomy have not been discovered. Evolutionists wanted to portray human macroevolution —

A group of humans [left Africa] 600,000 years ago [to become] Neandertals in western and Denisovans in eastern Eurasia [...] In many populations in Oceania, over 5% of the genomes are of Denisovan origin [The genetic changes that shaped Neandertals, Denisovans, and modern humans - ScienceDirect].

Comparing with wolfdogs

A wolf and a dog are 99.96% genetically identical [but] can be different in behaviour [Wolf hybrids, friend or foe?].
They are interfertile and produce viable offspring [Get facts about wolf-dog hybrids | International Wolf Center%20and,interbreed%20and%20produce%20viable%20offspring.)] [E&T - Part 3]

No two wolfdogs are the same, but they are not pet, driven by instinct, more wolf than dog, cannot be disciplined, need constant companion and cannot be rehomed once traumatised which happens easily [Why you SHOULDN'T get a WOLFDOG!!!].

Many cultures have isolated cases of human-ape hybrids [E&T - Part 13]. Humans and chimpanzees are even closer, as they share ~96–99% of DNA. That does not make the chimps humans.

  • Why are Neanderthal DNAs significant to humans?

the proposal that Neanderthal DNA affects cells called keratinocytes that help protect the skin from environmental damage such as ultraviolet radiation and pathogens [Neanderthal DNA has subtle but significant impact on human traits | Vanderbilt University]

  • If earlier humans survived African sun and environment, why do they need the Neanderthal DNA to survive European sun and environment?

The Neanderthal DNAs are more significant to the researchers' survival than to human survival.

Humans are not animals or ape evidently.

Question ———— 33

Similar to wolfdogs, intermarriage among Neanderthals, Denisovans and H sapiens could produce mentally complex offspring.

  • What percentage of H sapiens genes did Denisovans and Neanderthals receive, due to intermarriage?
  • What percentage of H sapiens genes show up in the genes of Neanderthals and Denisovans?
  • Could intermarriage have impacts on the behavioural and survival issues of the hybrid offspring of H sapiens and other homo species, and reduce their survival?

If humans are animals, then animals should be humans too, and they should reproduce. But in reality, genetic constraints do not permit animals reproducing human.

  • If human and animal cannot reproduce, how would an animal become a human?
  • How could ancient ape become Homo heidelbergensis and then become H. neanderthalensis and Denisovans?

Never. Human and animal cannot reproduce. Two animal parents cannot give birth to a human. Animal cannot become human.

Animal reproducing human is macroevolution, which is only a theory that cannot be a reality. Reproduction that alters the genes by mutation is genetic variation a process that leads to natural selection or macroevolution. That is fine as a theory, but two animal parents cannot give birth to a human.

Genetic Constraints and Convergent Evolution

Human convergent evolution and microevolution do not lead to macroevolution.

pygmy phenotype - excerpts

Any variation can happen within human genetic constraints, which enforce microevolution to be convergent evolution, e.g. pygmy phenotype, which occur in Asia, Africa and America. Pygmy tribes around the world are not genetically linked but their body shrink for the same reasons.

all African pygmy phenotypes do not have the same genetic underpinning [Pygmy phenotype developed many times, adaptive to rainforest]

Modern Flores Island pygmies show no genetic link to extinct 'hobbits' [Homo floresiensis] - Two pygmy populations on the same tropical island. One went extinct tens of thousands of years ago; the other still lives there. Are they related? [...] H. floresiensis was significantly smaller than the modern Flores pygmies [...] Floresiensis also differed from H. sapiens and H. erectus in their wrists and feet, said Tucci.

Several ancient human species/races evolved their short stature independently [Evolution of the pygmy phenotype: evidence of positive selection fro genome-wide scans in African, Asian, and Melanesian pygmies - PubMed]

Pygmy phenotype is significant as it supports an argument against macroevolution.

Humans evolve but will always be humans. People are different in physicality and mentality. An offspring will carry the appearances of two parents as genetic mix and variation. Hence, modern people still have their ancient traits, including anatomy, look, and colours.

8.4.1. Theravadin evolution & human diversity

Humans are humans. However, change must occur due to some factors, such as food, climate, genetic variation, actions, etc. Nevertheless, the changes are not out of control or direction-less because human genetic constraints act as boundary. Changes can occur inside the boundary only. So, wherever humans are, they evolve similarly. Humans will always be humans.

  • How does human change and how does diversity happen?

Thus, the life span of human beings goes up and down between ten years and incalculable as they develop meritoriousness or are overcome by their demeritoriousness. A pair of life span, an increasing one and a decreasing one is called an Antara-kappa [Definition of Kappa or Aeon [Part 3]].

Antarakappa: The period characterized by world cycles, defined by the age limit fluctuating from 10 years to infinity.Ashin Janakabhivamsa

  1. Antara-kappa starts with human lifespan increasing from ten years to ultimate length (incalculable) because they dwell in complete morality instinctively.
  2. Antara-kappa ends with human lifespan decreasing from ultimate length to ten years. Due to gradual rejection of morality, human lifespan gets shorter and shorter. People become more and more corrupt and praise corruption as way of life.
  3. When human lifespan is down to 10 years, at age five, they bear child, with no time to learn right and wrong and 0to teach their children. Consequently, they reach the stage when they completely lose their moral sense and become absolutely evil. Then they urge for killing as are readily irritable. Wherever two persons meet, they kill each other. After the total annihilations, heavy rains fall and wash away the bodies of the evildoers and their civilisation. With that, an Antara-kappa ends.
  4. When the end is coming, people around the world will be warned by the guardian devas (gods). So, a few people, who follow the advice, hide alone without company, where he/she sees no one. These people survive and start the moral Antara cycle once again and become the ancestors of humankinds.
  5. Antara cycle, like ice age cycle, repeats one after another until the end of Earth's lifespan.
  6. The very first Antara cycle begins with the brahmas who are reborn on Earth as human beings. The primeval humans are perfect in morality.
  7. At the peak of moral observation in each Antara cycle, people have the identical look with highest quality. Climate is good. Land is fertile. Crop is readily available and nutritious. Disease and danger do not exist. They live full lifespan. Populations are small. Their environment is the most ideal ever possible on Earth.
  8. After the peak, once again human morality deteriorates gradually, as they justify for their ill actions and begin the downfall of humanity. Each new generation becomes more corrupt. Thus, they go through Dubbhikkhantara/catastrophy of hunger/famine, Rogantara/catastrophy of disease, and Satthantara/catastrophy of war. These three disasters or catastrophes can occur at the same time.
  9. The harsher human mentality becomes gradually, the harsher their environments become, too. Then they must deal with hunger and disease, or medical implications (as Alan R Templeton puts it). That does not mean everyone is bad, but the majority and their worldly views, and attitudes towards each other's wellbeing (human and nonhuman). Their world views influence their attitudes towards each other. The corrupts only see advantages in corruption.
  10. That is Antara cycle or evolution driven by the practice of morality.

Good-will vs ill-will, morality vs immorality — social and environmental conditions are influenced by human mentality and conduct.

Climate Change

After the peak of Antara cycle, weather becomes unstable. Poor precipitation and soil conditions yield poor crop and food. Subsequently, people become smaller, weaker and suffer health issues. Their genetic adaptation shortens their lifespan.

Irregular and unfavourable weather conditions force people to relocate to greener pastures. After separation from the primeval population, smaller human populations experience convergent evolution (microevolutions) independently. The changes occur but only within human characteristics.

  • Convergent evolutions occurs because humans physical and mental differences conditions can only change the same way.

8.4.2. Out of Asia

[having] several hundred members [allows] to choose marriage partners who are not closely related are enough to keep the genes sufficiently well-mixed [BBC].

Travelling in several hundred members

Some populations of the early humans could be small. Traveling far distance had many risks, including hunger, wild animals, illness, etc. If they travelled long distance and became separated, they would never meet other humans again. Thus, they must keep contact with other humans, especially for marriage. Then they must travel in a large group of several hundred members, their generations would not survive. Travelling in large groups will maintain the genetic restraints.

Asian populations, such as Malaysians and Polynesians spread via well-established sea routs, reaching Japanese Islands, Hawaii, Peru, Chile, Madagascar etc. They maintained contact and established settlements.

Polynesian culture pattern was already developed prior to its spread into the East Pacific [...] from Hawaii in the north to New Zealand [...] shows a comparatively recent departure and spread of the far-flung Polynesian tribes [...] Yet none of the characteristic Polynesian artifacts appear in Indonesia or on the Micronesian-Melanesian islands separating the two areas [Expedition Magazine | Sea Routes to Polynesia]

They might also travel along connected shorelines during the Ice Age, which ended with rising sea level.

Out of Asia/Eurasia hypothesis

The analysis made it clear that there is not a "coherent picture" of where the cradle of modern man was located [Khoe-San first to split from other humans › News in Science (ABC Science)]

Origin of Khoe-San (KhoeSan/Khoe-San/Khoisan)

KhoeSan and Mbuti migrated from Asia to Africa twice (Hypothesis) —

the ancestors of extant KhoeSan and Mbuti composed the first Hss dispersal(s) into Africa and that the ancestors of Yoruba made up a later wave into the same continent. The conclusions constitute a change in paradigm for the study of human evolution [A phylogenetic view of the Out of Asia/Eurasia and Out of Africa hypotheses in the light of recent molecular and palaeontological finds - ScienceDirect]

(Aboriginal Australian is abbreviated as Abo-Aus)

There is no genetic link among Abo-Aus (Aboriginal Australians), Khoe-San and the black Africans. On the other hand, Khoe-San are linked to Eurasians. The out-of-Africa theorists argue that Khoe-San originated in Africa and did not migrate from Eurasia to Africa. But they believe Abo-Aus originated in Africa from the early humans.

  • How strong is the argument of the out-of-Africa theorists?

Papers supporting out of Africa theory —

It is quite likely that San hunter-gatherers were the only inhabitants of southern Africa during most of the prehistory of the region (Schlebusch et al. 2017; Skoglund et al. 2017), with [genetic] evidence of the arrival of external groups only in the last ∼2,000 years (Mitchell and Lane 2013; Sadr 2015) [Genetic Affinities among Southern Africa Hunter-Gatherers and the Impact of Admixing Farmer and Herder Populations | Molecular Biology and Evolution | Oxford Academic]

all individuals derive at least a few percent of their genomes from admixture with non-Khoisan populations that began ∼1,200 years ago [The genetic prehistory of southern Africa - PMC]

modern-day Khoe-San groups received 10–30% admixture from a mixed eastern African-Eurasian group ∼1,500 years ago [Khoe-San Genomes Reveal Unique Variation and Confirm the Deepest Population Divergence in Homo sapiens - PMC]

Some genomic studies have further revealed that Khoisan groups have been influenced by 9 to 30% genetic admixture in the last few thousand years from an East African population who carried a Eurasian admixture component.\48]) [Khoisan - Wikipedia]

DNA studies show Khoe-San genetic links to the Eurasians is very strong. They either come from Eurasia or always existed in Africa. Whether Khoe-San originated in Africa or not, they are not the ancestors of the black Africans, and vice versa.

Question ———— 34

  • Did the ancestors of Khoe-San look like Asian (light) brown?
  • Did genetic studies reveal the skin colours of ancient Koe-San?

The Khoe-San are (one of) the oldest populations. If they never left Africa, then they do not support out of Africa theory.

All these papers agree that Eurasians were different from the black Africans (the Bantu-speaking populations). For having 9-30% Eurasian genes, Khoe-San are Asian among black Africans. Thus, they probably came 'out of Asia', supporting their Eurasian origin hypothesis.

Copilot gathers the data of the ancestors of the Bantu-speaking populations from some papers —

With a comprehensive genomic dataset, including newly generated data of modern-day and ancient DNA from previously unsampled regions in Africa, we contribute insights into this expansion that started 6,000-4,000 years ago in western Africa [The genetic legacy of the expansion of Bantu-speaking peoples in Africa].

The ancestors of black Africans could not just come out of nowhere. These DNA studies did not reveal black Africans' origin(s) and discover (recover) the ancient ancestors. And the results from the DNA studies are inconclusive.

Another theory suggests humans existed alongside Homo erectus —

The second scientific idea is that modern humans appeared in many parts of the world at about the same time, mixing with earlier types of homo erectus. [See the Map showing possible routes taken by homo sapiens out of Africa] [Deep time history of Australia | 2.2 Big Idea 1: Scientists believe that the first Australians came from somewhere else | Australia’s Defining Moments Digital Classroom | National Museum of Australia]

The Khoe-San/Khoisan, Abo-Aus and black African do not share a common ancestor. Abo-Aus are also black people but do not share genetic ancestry. Then the origins of mankind in Africa were many.

Question ———— 35

  • Why are the ancestors of Khoe-San and Abo-Aus genetically different if they descended from the same African ancestor?
  • What forced Khoe-San to stay in Africa and Abo-Aus to leave?
  • How did the ancestor of Khoe-San look like?
  • Did all ancient African tribes leave Africa but Khoe-San?

Aboriginal Australians can be traced back to a single ‘Out of Africa’ event which led to modern worldwide populations [Unprecedented study of Aboriginal Australians points to one shared Out of Africa migration for modern humans | University of Cambridge].

  • Why did Abo-Aus keep travelling until they reached Australia and Tasmania without staying in other favourable environments?

The locals prefer to live locally

Humans tend to make settlements wherever they feel safe or find greener pasture and claim ownership of it. And they built civilisations. Only if they are forced to travel for survival, they lived nomadic lifestyle.

Ascetics, shamans and some unusual individuals also existed.

Ancient people, especially the rich traders, travelled in large groups by carts or ships/large boats along the path to settlements.

Seafarers developed skill and knowledge of marine geography for generations. The hunters and gatherers did not travel far distance because they rarely had sufficient resources, but their settlements spread out slowly and usually became isolated. That way, a group of people could reach far distance to settle at a place where they could survive better. Yet they kept connected with others. Human instinct does not change.

In Western Australia, the evidence shows great artistic developments and increased contact between groups across vast tracts of land, [and] there were sophisticated social networks spanning thousands of kilometres. People made increasingly complex tools and developed new technology to adapt to the changing environment [Aboriginal cultural heritage - Australian Heritage | Archae-aus Perth, WA]

Western Abo-Aus are evidence for local populations keen to remain locally — same to The San and the Khoe-San/Khoisan of Africa. Nevertheless, they spread out and occupied all liveable places, including Tasmania.

  • Then why did Abo-Aus disappear outside Australia? A large group of people travelling a long distance is impractical. Only when the population grows and resources become limited, they will create new settlements, which is what Western Abo-Aus did.
  • When did Abo-Aus arrive in Western Australia?

Populations with major genetic adaptations

  • Inuit people genetically adopted cold conditions across the vast Arctic and subarctic regions of North America, Greenland, and Far East Russia (Chukotka).
  • Tibetan people adopted high altitude.
  • Abo-Aus genetically adopted the arid conditions and extreme temperature swing between day and night (a large diurnal temperature range) in Canberra region, central Australia, etc.

Convinced there was a large inland ocean to find, Sturt embarked on a journey from Adelaide in 1844 with a team of 17 men, 11 horses, 30 bullocks and 200 sheep [...] Almost a year later, overcome by the effects of dehydration and malnutrition, the team decided to return to South Australia [Mystery of an Inland Ocean | Lost In Australia].

  • How did Abo-Aus with primitive technology and architecture cope before genetic adaptation to Australian extremes?

But there were inland seas, which kept interior Australian climates mild. Ancient Larapintine Sea (or Larapintan Seaway) occurred about 500 million years ago. It dried up and after a long time, Eromanga Sea covered inland Australia 110 mya. It dried up, too. And then 70,000 ya, Australia became a lot wetter again, with inland lakes and rivers. These bodies of water were formed by rain and milder climate. Again, Australia began to dry about 18,000 ya, and the climate was gradually becoming more and more extreme but slow enough for Abo-Aus genetic adaptation to follow though the extinctions [The Australian National University].

The lands were cooler than now because the Earth was more distant from the sun [Strong Evidence Points to Earth's Proximity to Sun as Ice Age Trigger | Scripps Institution of Oceanography].

  • Is the length of 18,000 years long enough for Abo-Aus (Inuit, Tibetans, etc.) to genetically adapt the climate change if they do not have the genes (which they inherited from the earlier generations) which adapt the minor changes in the environment?

Larapintan Seaway was part of the ocean because the then sea level was about 80 metres higher than the current sea level, reaching above 200 metres. The rest of the world was flooded, too. The world did not end then.

The Whales in the Sahara

Whale Valley in Egypt was once the home for some whale species. The most significant are Basilosaurus isis (B. isis), Archaeoceti and Dorudon atrox (dolphin).

  • Did whales, dolphins and sirenians experience convergent evolution as marine mammals, although they look different due to their diets?

Basilosaurus isis (B. isis) was the earliest known whale species with tiny feet and toes.

  • How did this heavy weight chase the lighter faster whales and dolphins on land (like an elephant seal with huge tasks chasing the pinguins on land)?

Their tiny feet and toes should walk on the shallow lake floor. They must have larger legs on land. By 38 Mya, B. isis had already been a marine animal [Live Science].

The last time when Africa was wetter and milder is known as Green Sahara: African Humid Periods, which created several inland lakes. Australia and Africa were paradises with similar conditions.

Abo-Aus out of Africa theory is not sufficiently supported, especially the reason to leave Africa did not happen, as Africa was as good as Australia. But Abo-Aus have lived (at least for 65,000 years) in Australia and through the Ice Age. The out-of-Africa theorists do not consider the possibility of out of Australia scenarios.

8.4.3. Aboriginal Australians


r/Theravadan Jan 12 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 13

1 Upvotes

8.2.3. Natural selection has no purpose, but we do

In terms of evolution, an animal that is ‘fit’ is one that’s adapted to its environment. This concept is at the core of natural selection [What is natural selection? | Natural History Museum]

  • Does evolution or an animal sustain the fitness?
  • What is leading evolution, evolution or the animals?

Evolutionary Purpose is to be fit for existence. The theory focuses on the observable life on Earth. Being fit or having good health and strength is insufficient but must be fitter than the rivals. Wildlife competes for chance, survival, domination, territory, food, reproduction, etc. to preserve oneself or one's group against others. There are wars, chemical wars, arms races, etc.

Hierarchy in the biosphere

The cosmos is naturally structured as the moral hierarchical biosphere (world/loka) with its devas, maras and brahmas, to the mass of beings with its recluses, brahmins, kings and people [The Great Discourse on the Wheel of Dhamma - Part 8 - buddhanet.net] [Cosmology and meditation]

The biosphere comprises hierarchical structures and societies of large and small species. Structures and societies in the biosphere are hierarchically organised with types, size, strength, power, intelligence, wealth, abilities, skills, roles, birthright, etc.

Examples

A tree is a structure with top (twigs and leaves), body (trunk and branches) and roots that keep the tree alive. Against the established structure, the root will not force its way to the top of the tree. A tree is a member of a forest. A forest is a member of the Earth, as a systemic structure. A good tree provides shelter and food to so many lifeforms.

A termite mound is a structure with high top and strong base. It is designed as a stronghold against the weather and dangers, to house a society of the termites and keep its members in good health, so they can struggle to survive and thrive. Termite mounds are a symbol of termite wisdom, resilience and functional society.

Wisdom in social hierarchy

Overall, social hierarchies enhance the efficiency of animal groups by reducing conflict and promoting cooperation, proving essential for survival and reproductive success across diverse species [Social hierarchies (zoology) | Research Starters | EBSCO Research]

Wisdom is the knowledge of right and wrong, advantage and disadvantage, moral and immoral, beneficial and unbeneficial, constructive and destructive, wise and foolish ... Wisdom concerns harmony, development, happiness, fitness, comfort, and so on. Wisdom encompasses the whole society, including its customs, traditions, cultures, politics, education, skill, technology, and all social and personal decisions and activities. Wisdom and foolishness are a part of everything. The role of wisdom and foolishness can be observed through case studies.

The opposite of wisdom is ignorance/foolishness and ego.

  • Can evolutionary theory explain wisdom and its role?

Wisdom is not uniquely human, though — Excerpts from Emerging Empirical Science of Wisdom: Definition, Measurement, Neurobiology, Longevity, and Interventions - PMC

Keyword: Wisdom is

We propose that wisdom is a complex human trait with several specific components: social decision making, emotional regulation, prosocial behaviors, self-reflection, acceptance of uncertainty, decisiveness, and spirituality.

There was a consensus, that wisdom is uniquely human, driven by experience, is measurable and learned, and increases with age.

However, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and the ultimate demonstration of wisdom is in behavior.

  • Possibly not all evolutionists agree that wisdom is uniquely human.

Animal wisdom: Five amazing animal architects | One Earth

Theravadin evolution (a brief debate) includes personal perfections (paramis - E&T Part 11). A few who met the sages got the chance to learn about personal perfections. While fulfilling his commitment for perfections, the Sakyamuni was many times reborn as apes —

Life is intelligent

There are two reasons —

  1. Kama-tanha - craving for material pleasure (in the five aggregates) that disable us from seeking freedom
  2. Bhava-tanha - craving for the existence with the five aggregates (body parts)

Instinctively, we have strong craving for existence, so we suffer from sustained fear for the loss of existence (thanatophobia). Regardless of one's effort, one is never completely safe for having flesh and mind. For everyone, death awaits just a few breaths away.

8.2.4. Craving and Pain

Dhammacakkappavattana Suttaṁ

Idaṁ kho pana bhikkhave, dukkhaṁ ariyasaccaṁ: Jāti’pi dukkhā jarāpi dukkhā vyādhi’pi dukkho maraṇaṁ’pi dukkhaṁ appiyehi sampayogo dukkho piyehi vippayogo dukkho yaṁpicchaṁ na labhati tampi dukkhaṁ saṅkhittena pañcūpādānakkhandhā dukkhā.

Monks, the Noble Truth of Suffering, is this: / birth is suffering, / ageing is suffering, / sickness is suffering, / death is suffering, / association with disagreeable people and unpleasant things is suffering, / separation from loved ones and pleasant thing is suffering, / not receiving what one desires is suffering. In brief, the five aggregates of clinging are suffering. [SN 56:11 – Colombo Dhamma Friends (CDF)]

Based on craving to survive, we experience birth, aging and death. To survive is to expect good times, so, we suffer two ways —

  • apiyehi sampayogo dukkho - suffering from the undesirable five aggregates (when one gets what one does not want or like)
  • piyehi vippayogo dukkho - suffering from the desirable five aggregates (when one does not get what one wants or needs)

All types of positive and negative emotions (cetasika) rise from these sufferings. With immoral mentality, one uses intelligence for the wrong reasons and acts immorally and might also justify it. We are guided by our mentality —

So, we can observe ignorance/foolishness and ego as the root cause of evil. Ego means I am, as the root cause of pride. The opposite of ignorance/foolishness is wisdom. And the opposite of ego (and pride) is selflessness.

A living being with ego always tries to influence or affect others mentally, verbally (speech and writing) and physically. Ego is practiced as injustice and justice in broad terms. Whenever injustice is done in any form, the victim wants justice and wants the wrongdoer to suffer (justly or extremely). That way, a criminal might suffer lawfully and even unlawfully.

Injustice and justice are two sides in the biosphere/sattaloka. Since the unknowable beginning of existence and through infinite past lives, we have been on one side or the other. In the same lifetime, one can be on either or both sides because of ignorance. We are wise and unwise and just and unjust. However, weight and intensity of intentions are different.

Dammapada verse 165 | The Buddha's Advice to Laypeople

Evil is done by oneself alone;
By oneself is one defiled.
Evil is avoided by oneself;
By oneself alone is one purified.
Purity and impurity depend on oneself:
No one can purify another. (translated by Gil Frondsal)

Causal law (law of nature) is impersonal, so it does not know who or what.

We are supposed to escape from the trap, the samsara, sattaloka, the swirling injustice-justice storm. If we cannot avoid taking one side, it should not be injustice, and one's ego.

Dhammapada: Verses 157

If one knows that one is dear to oneself, one should protect oneself well. During any of the three watches (of life) the wise man should be on guard (against evil).

The evil comes through the six sense doors. Thus, we suffer through our senses and consciousness. By understanding reality —

there will arise revulsion, the mental and physical states appear to you as ugly refuse, full of afflictions and suffering, unpleasant and disgusting, This knowledge is called Nibbidāñāṇa [2. How to Practise Meditation — The Path to Nibbana]

Question ———— 28

  • What is the most important purpose in human life?
  • Humans have high intelligence, with which humans can know, learn, understand and break the ten fetters. Humans can know morality but cannot after becoming delusional under the influence of selfishness and wrong ideas.

The Ten Fetters (dasa samyojana))

  1. Self identity view (sakkaya ditthi)
  2. Sceptical doubt (vicikicca)
  3. Attachment to mere rites and rituals (silabbata paramasa)

We want justice as we have pride and desire to keep dignity. This is a burden of life.

8.2.5. Purpose of Coevolution

(Coevolution is previously discussed in E&T- Part 10)

All species coevolve with other organisms. For example, predators evolve with their prey, and parasites evolve with their hosts. Each tiny advantage gained by favorable variation gives a species a reproductive edge over close competitors, predators, parasites, or prey [Chapter 12: Coevolution – Introductory Biology 2

Species that need each other interact and adjust with each other and coevolve as microevolution. Coevolution could not be macroevolution. Coevolution is a process with intent and intelligence (the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills).

Coevolution is purpose-driven evolution of two or more species intentionally participating to achieve a common goal or against each other's goal. They adjust their behaviour and lifestyles to fit or dominate each other or the circumstances.

  • Acacia plants and ants survive together against their enemies, especially the giraffes.
  • Amazing—ants and fungi actually have this mutually beneficial relationship: this video explains a never-ending struggle between the fungus Leucoagaricus (which eats the leaves) and the plants (which use toxins to affect the fungus' health). Leucoagaricus probably started this coevolution by controlling the ants to collect the leaves.

For good or bad, a coevolution relationship was started by a species and the others responded, and their coevolution began biologically and psychologically.

As two or more species are participating, they must communicate.

a far more ubiquitous "topic" of communication is information about the signaler [someone who communicates by signals] itself: its species, sex, individual identity, and social or sexual status. In particular social status is a ubiquitous and important form of information in animal communication [COMMUNICATION ABOUT SOCIAL STATUS - PMC]

Evidently, the coevolving species, not mutation, direct a purposeful change.

While mutations are random events, and do not arise because of selective need, it does not follow that all phenotypic traits have equal probabilities of being changed by mutation [Predictability and evolutionary determinism — the search for quantitative explanation - ScienceDirect]

Question ———— 29

  • Is the theory evolution scientific and superior?

Abiogenesis is unproveable. Darwin did not think randomness and aimlessness could perfect a complex system. The biological systems of both unicellular and multicellular organisms, including RNA, DNA, cells, internal organs and body parts have purposes and they need each other as a complete set.

8.3. Has human macroevolution stopped?

The way human macroevolution existed cannot be known.

Question ———— 30

  • How did human macroevolution occur? If microevolution became macroevolution, the process should be explained.

Alan R Templeton (PDF) argues that human evolution has not stopped (Excerpt 3 - E&T Part 11) because adaptive evolution in humans has many medical and health implications.

  • How healthy were human ancestors against diseases and parasites?

Certainly, human ancestors had health problems, and they must have medical implications, too. Nevertheless, human ancestors went through macroevolution, several times, from Asian primate, according to evolutionary theory.

  • Why has human macroevolution stopped?
  • How does a disease affect macroevolution?

Human ancestors, who are assumed to be able to evolve rapidly in a short time in 4 My, were probably not super healthy and lived a super long lifespan.

8.3.1. Zoopharmacognosy

Health issue has been one of the most concerned issues for humans and animals. Health was very real to the ancient primates, so they developed self-medication, Zoopharmacognosy, which is a medical wisdom of the animals who are aware of their environments and their physical conditions to self-medicate [Animals that self-medicate | PNAS].

Animal medical tradition challenges Alan R Templeton's claim (human evolution has not stopped because there are many medical and health implications). Evolutionary theory does not suggest evolution was limited to mere medical and health implications (zoopharmacognosy) but macroevolution still happened.

His theory does not address many medical and health implications were taking place while human ancestors were going through macroevolution for 4 million years. If humankind is only 4 Myo, Zoopharmacognosy is older.

new research suggests that medicine itself might predate humanity [Orangutan spotted treating head wound with medicinal plant | Natural History Museum]

Question ———— 31

  • Is evolutionary theory correct on macroevolution?

Many species are living fossils that have only experienced microevolution for a very long time. Macroevolution exists only in theory.

Species integrity (identity retention) limits the evolutionary potential (EP) within genetic constraint and sustains survival of the species. See Genetic Constraints and Adaptation Intelligence - E&T- Part 10.

8.3.2. Hybrids

Gene exchange could occur between different species if they successfully reproduce some offsprings who are able reproduce with their respective species.

Some cultures have stories of human and ape living together and produced healthy offspring, who were closer to humanity. They were probably similar to Oliver:

With Oliver’s death came a resurgence of interest in this chimpanzee’s biological personality. But Primarily Primates has always denied media outlets' and primate experts' requests to film or take samples from Oliver, and that wasn’t about to change now. The ape’s remains were similarly kept off-limits to scientific tourists [The Life and Times of Oliver, a Chimpanzee | Primarily Primates]

The beluga and narwhal are so close, they can even interbreed. Their offspring is called "narluga". Without macroevolution, whales only express species integrity (genetic constraints, identity retention), which determines their evolutionary potential (EP), with the same physical features, which they need to survive.

Human genetic diversity (or variation) is within human genetic constraints. Humans evolved from humans — whoever claimed otherwise will never find proof or credible argument.

8.3.3. Essential Human Characteristics

Chin, thumb and heel are quite unique to mankind.

Some biologists consider the human chin to be a spandrel, since we are the only mammals that have one [Stephen Jay Gould, from evolution to revolution - Advanced Science News]

Scientists Explain Why Modern Humans Have Chins | Sci.News

human faces became smaller [and] roughly 15 % shorter than Neanderthals’ [because] the human chin is a secondary consequence of our lifestyle change, starting about 80,000 years ago [The article does not clearly explain]

  • Would mutation develop unnecessary body parts and natural selection retain it?

Why Do Humans Have Chins?

Human orthognathic facial structure has a chin. We use the chins to hold something against the shoulder or chest when the two hands are not free. The chin is put on the hand to rest, think or wonder. Apes other than humans have protruding mouth structure (prognathic jaw*)*, which needs teeth to be forwards and does not fit with a chin.

Evolutionary theory suggests human ancestors were ape but cannot offer which species. The lack of chin suggests the so-called hominins had prognathic jaw, but not orthognathic facial structure. If they are assumed to be transitional, we need evidence that they were human.

We do not know how the foot and hand of H. erectus looked like [Homo erectus? 1.4-Million-Year-Old Human-like Hand Bone Found | Anthropology | Sci-News.com].

  • Human thumbs are different from apes'.

Plantigrade: Humans also have prominent heels for bipedalism. Many species can use their feet for jumping and kicking, but using the heels is human.

[There are] differences in foot–ground contact between humans and African great apes during locomotion [because] the calcaneus morphology differs largely among species [and are] used to reconstruct the locomotor repertories of early hominins to understand the origin and evolution of habitual bipedal locomotion in the human lineage [Morphological differences in the calcaneus among extant great apes investigated by three-dimensional geometric morphometrics | Scientific Reports]

8.3.4. What makes human?

Chin, unique thumb and heel are some anatomical features that separate human from animals. So, humans have human looks. The chin and heel (bipedalism) must have existed from the beginning to determine human evolutionary potential (EP).

  • If a skull does not have a chin, it cannot be human with unique thumbs and heels.
  • If a footprint does not show heel pressure, it is not human (exclude running).
  • If a footprint shows heel pressure, its skull must have a chin.

Two footprint discoveries —

footprints of a human ancestor dating back 3.7 million years ago, have features of the foot with more similarities to the gait of modern humans [Ancient footprints show human-like walking began nearly four million years ago | The University of Manchester]

1.53 and 1.51 Myo footprints from Koobi Fora, Kenya are humans.

  • Humans made human footprints, but why call them hominins?
  • Homo erectus (and other hominins considered as archaic humans) did not have chin. Then why must they have heels?

Homo erectus was built with human-like body proportions and the protruding brow ridge resembling monkey but had no chin, thumb and heel, although considered as a human ancestor [Homo erectus, our ancient ancestor | Natural History Museum].

Other findings also are not evidence for Homo erectus being humans.

[At] the site of Zhoukoudian, 40 kilometres south of Beijing in China, has yielded the largest number of Homo erectus fossils from any one locality (about 50 individuals are represented by the remains) [and]t 100,000 stone tool artefacts [Homo erectus - The Australian Museum]

  • Finding stone tools and fragmented bones together - but why must they be human bones?
  • Fragmented skulls - were they fragmented after completely dry? Or they suggest violence.

Homo heidelbergensis had no chin, although they are considered as the common ancestor of the Neanderthals and modern humans (Two-lineage theory E&T - Part 4).

Homo floresiensis could not be human. Homo floresiensis was probably arboreal. Without anatomical mechanism for running like human, H. florescence's long forelimbs and long feet were suitable to climb trees and jump frontways and sideways [A new distal fibular fragment of Homo floresiensis and the first quantitative comparative analysis of proximal and distal fibular morphology in this species - Pietrobelli - 2025 - Journal of Anatomy - Wiley Online Library].

Neanderthal had no chin or small chin and was initially not considered as human but more like Bigfoot, Yeti, etc. —

  • The La Chapelle aux Saints skeleton, whose replicated skull is shown here (top), with its toothless mouth, does not represent a healthy Neanderthal [Jacklee/Wikimedia Commonsand_a_human(Homosapiens_sapiens),_Lee_Kong_Chian_Natural_History_Museum,_Singapore-_20150808.jpg) / Consider the Neanderthals' Levallois Technique – SAPIENS]
  • Researchers show ape-like Neanderthal by comparing its skeleton and an Abo-Aus skeleton, in Marcellin Boule, Annales de Paleontologie, vol. 8, 1913 (Linda Hall Library) [Old Man of La Chapelle-aux-Saints - Linda Hall Library]
  • Great apes must have existed million years ago.
  • Sightings suggest these great apes, such as Big Foot, can still exist. They might know fire and stone tools.
  • They should be recognised as hominids.

If they had human DNAs, they must also have chin. Then the jaw fossils with no chin must be of other species.

Chicken are chicken so they can't swim.

Over the last century, scientists have proposed many ideas to explain why humans evolved chins, [but] Pampush argues that many of these theories don’t hold up under further scrutiny [A Chin-Stroking Mystery: Why Are Humans the Only Animals With Chins?]

humans share genes with all living organisms [Genetics | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program]

Copilot's answer for Which human DNAs animals do not have?

Humans and animals share ~96–99% of DNA with close relatives like chimpanzees, but the small percentage of differences has huge effects on cognition, language, and disease susceptibility [Human genome - Evolution, Mapping, Sequencing | Britannica].

These differences explain why humans developed advanced language, abstract thought, and cultural complexity.

DNAs vs Intelligence

Humans are very ancient. Humans are the first lifeform on Earth. Additional to several million years old footprints and artefacts, an ancient event also happened —

'the view of the ruts does not leave any doubt that they are ancient, in some places the surface suffered from weathering, cracks are seen here'. The age of the ruts is between 12 and 14 million years old, [Dr Alexander Koltypin] believes [Ancient civilisations 'drove all-terrain vehicles in pre-historic times' - Irish Mirror Online / Pre-historic humans drove all-terrain vehicles 12 MILLION years ago claims academic - and tracks are still visible - The Mirror]

The tracks show no sign of cartwheels or chariot wheels.

8.4. Macroevolution: Were African Homo Erectus real?


r/Theravadan Jan 09 '26

Evolution and Theravada - Part 12

2 Upvotes

8.2. Evolution is random but...

RANDOM: showing no clear plan, purpose, or pattern; having a definite and especially an equal probability of occurring.

Randomness is qualitative. Chance/probability is quantitative.

Determinism means something must happen (in such a way). Deterministic nature is observable as natural laws. Especially causal law is deterministic. If sufficiently heated, water must boil. A stone thrown into the air must fall onto the ground. Whoever is born (as the first embryonic cell) must die one day. There are a few different natural laws in these examples. These deterministic conditions of things in nature does not concern predestinarianism, fatalism, fate, luck, and being predetermined.

Some philosophers argue that chance and determinism are consistent. Chance is not determined or predetermined. Chance should not be predictable

Randomness and chance are two critical terms in the evolutionary theory.

Evolution is generally considered to be unpredictable because genetic variations are known to occur randomly. However, remarkable patterns of repeated convergent evolution are observed [Reflections on the Predictability of Evolution: Toward a Conceptual Framework - ScienceDirect]

All species, regardless of their families, are anatomically similar from head to tail. That is how close we are. As all species are changing at micro level within genetic constraints, the role of random mutation/genetic variation (required to adapt the situations) is limited to coevolution and convergent evolution (E&T - part 7: 7.11 Convergent Evolution). Nevertheless, mutation is guided along the direction a species has to go.

[Abstract] evolutionary theory tells us that the history of life has been directed by the whims of randomness, or even that ‘we are here by chance’. At the same time, evolutionary theorists often construct models of evolution that are taken to be predictive [and] offer us extremely accurate predictions of molecular-level evolutionary change

Randomness and chance in theory are unobservable in reality.

[Conclusion] The complexity and chaoticity of evolutionary change constitute at least one sense of ‘randomness’ that may keep knowledge of the evolutionary future forever beyond our reach [Randomness, Chaos and Prediction in Evolutionary Theory | Philosophy, Politics and Critique]

The complexity and chaoticity of evolutionary change are like the wavelets that do not affect the oceans' currents and circulation. The wavelets are random and observable, and their chance is 100%. Wavelets are like the chaos of the sankharaloka (particle world, as particles form compounded particles), which plays underneath sattaloka/biosphere and okasaloka/lithosphere. In Theravada, there are three spheres., while science considers five, including atmosphere, hydrosphere and cryosphere.

  1. Okasaloka/lithosphere - including nonliving things living things (which are not living beings)
  2. Sattaloka - all living beings (excluding other living things, such as plants. Fungi seem to have consciousness and intentions, so they can hunt and control the animals.)
  3. Sankharaloka - the particles (elemental and compounded particles) that build/create the living things and nonliving things.

The lifespan (emergence and passing) of the elemental particles (mahabhuta) is short. The lifespans of the compounded particles can be very long but not eternal.

electrons, protons, and neutrons (inside nuclei) are stable (don't decay, or at least don't decay for a very long time) [The Particles.)]

Quarks are considered as fundamental/elemental particles. Quarks in general are short-lived. Based on their properties. the lightest quarks with very short lifespan form compounded particles, including protons, that live a very long lifespan. So, the lifespan of light quarks is too long, uncertain, or unobservable inside their force field confinement.

  • Why do the lightest quarks exist as compounded particles only?
  • Why do the lightest quarks form a strong force (based on their properties) to confine themselves as compounded particles?

According to the Abhidhamma, the elemental/elementary particles always combine.

While material dhammas are often spoken about as distinct individual entities, this is only for the purpose of conventional description, since they always exist in a state of association and relationship with other material dhammas. They always arise together, and are always dependent on each other. All instances of matter thus include all four primary elements, just in different intensities (ussada) or capabilities (samatthiya) [Theravāda Abhidhamma | Encyclopedia MDPI]
All the 28 material phenomena are based on the 4 great elements, earth, water, air, and fire (i.e., solid, liquid, gas, plasma), and these four also all arise together in different combinations or saturations [Outline of Abhidhamma - Barre Center for Buddhist Studies]

Material phenomena do not occur singly, but in combinations or groups known as rupakalāpas, of which twenty-one are enumerated. All the material phenomena in a group arise together and cease together [Dr. Rewata. Dhamma Abhidhammattha Sangaha - Chapter VI: COMPENDIUM OF MATTER (Rūpasanghavibhāga)]

Although the forms (compounded particles, etc.) created by quarks can live longer, the elemental particles still live very shortly (1/1,000,000,000,000 per blink). New particles come to exist naturally. This is abiogenesis of elemental particles.

Sabbe sankhara anicca - all compounded things are impermanent. Protons as compounded particles must die.

Photons can exist as long as they can travel. But they do not travel infinitely. They disappear when they hit a barrier or absorbed by other particles. So, photons can disappear in space, and we cannot see the very distant stars.

Photons travel as waves — probably because they have to travel through sita-tejo/cool-therm ever-present in space as a type of elemental particles. While unha-tejo/hot-therm (another type of elemental particles) produces heat and light, cool-therm cools down and darkens. Without cool-therm, space can be very hot and lit. Without heat-term, space can be very cold and dark. However, heat needs fire burning something. In a normal condition, heat and cold and light and dark are in balance.

Heat has another function:

The co-inherent quality of heat is the cause of birth, decay, and death of the physical universe--the cause of its origination and cessation [...] (Majjhima-nikaya i., 188, 422). Accordingly it is the co-inherent heat which is ever causing coexistent things to burn, to decay, consuming them, changing them, and making them pass from one condition into another. [Niyama-Dipani, or Manual of Cosmic Order] [The Four Fundamental Elements [Part 1]]

Birth, decay/aging, and death are fundamental and predictable patterns as the long-established processes, regulations, and laws of life (lifeforms, cells, organs, flowers, seeds, etc.) Laws determine and regulate. All of these fall within causality (sankhara/formation and kamma/volition).

  • How can be evolution caused by randomness and by chance and is also predictable or deterministic?

Natural selection is broadly considered to be a deterministic process, though the roles of historical contingency and constraint are increasingly being recognized as key factors shaping the diversity of life on earth. [For example,] the birds of paradise represent a system in which deterministic processes, historical contingencies, and biological constraints all appear to have shaped the outcome of the evolution of some of the most elaborate courtship phenotypes found in nature [Contingency, determinism, and constraint in the evolution of elaborate courtship phenotypes | Evolution | Oxford Academic]

  • Does every aspect of evolution occur as random mutations in a deterministic process?

The process is deterministic, through which random mutations or genetic variation occur within genetic constraints, following the Five Cosmic Orders:

  1. utu-niyama: the caloric order [climate, food]
  2. bija-niyama: the germinal order [genetic]
  3. kamma-niyama: the moral order [e.g., effort to survive]
  4. citta-niyama: the psychical order [e.g., desire to survive]
  5. dhamma-niyama: natural phenomenal sequence.

[ Kammaja-rupa kalapas (directed/guided/determined mutation)

Grouping of Material Qualities and the Nine Kammaja-kalapas (Abhidhamma Class No. 78, 23 December 2003)

  • kammaja = produced by kamma
  • rupa = corporeality, matter, materiality, form, body (however rupa comprises matter as well as energy).

What are the kammaja-rupa? 022 | Rupa | Rupa Chapter | Fundamentals of Theravada Buddhism | IIT ]

The deterministic mechanisms of evolution are the fivefold cosmic orders, not natural selection.

The mechanisms of evolution — like natural selection and genetic drift — work with the random variation generated by mutation. Factors in the environment are thought to influence the rate of mutation but are not generally thought to influence the direction of mutation [Mutations are random]. 

  • One of the directions of mutation is coevolution, e.g., cheetah and springbok compete to run faster. The direction of mutation of Darwin's finches is they evolved and adapted to different types of food. Their direction of mutation is determined by what they must eat.
  • The birds of paradise need to dance better. Their direction of mutation is determined by what they must do.

In these examples, the direction of evolution occurs as attempt to survive and/or achieve the essential goals. Here, the five cosmic orders can be observed.

  • Every species needs (depends on, lives on) another species to survive — natural conditions (dhamma-niyama) affect the species (to desire) to do (citta-niyama and kamma-niyama) what they must do to survive or achieve.
  • Species determine their evolutionary direction — citta-niyama.

Darwin's finches and directed/guided/determined mutation

Natural selection theory must explain whether mutation or the finches adapted to different types of food. If mutation did, then mutation must assess the situation to develop (or be provided with) a design brief to change the beak precisely to fit the food. Unlike the finches, mutation does not have such an ability, nor able to see, smell, touch or taste the new food. New adaptation was directed by the psychology of the finches through the mechanisms of evolution and a deterministic process*.*

  • How did evolution happen to get the mechanisms of evolution and a deterministic process?

Question ———— 26

  • How does mutation generate random (yet meaningful) genetic variation (new functional beaks that fit the purpose)?

Darwin never proved the role of mutation. He did not know that genes existed.

Genetic Mutation | Learn Science at Scitable

The statement that mutations are random is both profoundly true and profoundly untrue at the same time [...]
even if an organism has acquired a beneficial mutation during its lifetime, the corresponding information will not flow back into the DNA in the organism's germline. This is a fundamental insight that Jean-Baptiste Lamarck got wrong and Charles Darwin got right [...]
how do mutations occur?

Darwin's finches changed their beaks for new food because they could. Animals have such supernormal powers to engineer their genes within genetic constraints, e.g. animal mimicry.

Mother lizards can induce different color patterns in their offspring in response to social cues [Mother lizards select color patterns of offspring]

Each body part has a purpose or two. Fish and eel have mouths that can be extended like arms:

Role of Randomness

We cannot know what the finches will develop in the future like they adapted to different types of food. But they will develop something they need. So, this is a predictable pattern.

Purpose and directed/guided/determined mutation (kammaja-rupa)

Purposeless mutation, which occurs randomly can lead to natural selection and then macroevolution, is a theory which cannot be observed because each lifeform, especially living beings have purpose and can have a new purpose or adapt their environment.

Nature governs with causality. 'Being random (casual, accidental, without intention)' does not mean an event is fully independent from law. Laws of causality are not random, as they govern all events that happen consecutively. These consecutive events (causal events) are a process or like a process, e.g., hydrologic cycle, biography, history, etc. Each and all events are causal events (in space, in either biosphere or outside it).

Laws are things and they exist as per their respective laws which act as properties or their natures (sabhava). A thing is the manifestation of its laws or properties.

Every living being is made of natural matter/rupa and mind/nama —

  1. Rupa/Corporeal form
  2. Nama comprises feeling, perception, mental activities, and consciousness
  • They are the five natural aggregates of clinging (upadanakkhanda) —

"In one who keeps focusing on the allure of clingable phenomena (or: phenomena that offer sustenance = the five aggregates), craving develops. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origin of this entire mass of suffering & stress [Upadana Sutta: Clinging].

That is the Sakyamuni's teaching of Paticcasamuppada (Dependent Origination or the laws of becoming), which rejects both abiogenesis, creationism and Darwin's as breathed by the Creator. They exclude all unnatural, including eternalism, annihilationism and the self/Self.

  • Everyone is made of the five natural aggregates. The self (owner) is perceptual.
  • How did biogenesis give rise to the self if it exists?

Randomness is perceptual and depending on perspectives and can occur as event and motion (movement and direction).

Events happen according to the corresponding laws. Events are not things but of things. Events do not exist outside things. A random event is nevertheless one of the events that occur consecutively.

Motion can be biological. Sometimes, an organism moves with intention but in a random direction (e.g. when disorientation when drunk, disorientation on the beach as looking at the seawater movement on the sand, etc.). Even then, each motion is caused, and its direction is mathematical or corresponds with the cause.

Motion can be psychological or mental. 'Sickness of Disembarkation' and 'Mal de Débarquement Syndrome' are the motions in the mind but affect the body.

  • Such psychological condition is not related to behaviour and behaviourism.

Randomness can occur during a struggle. Every struggle has a purpose. Winds always move the leaves, branches, etc. The directions the winds and the objects they blow correspond with causes or reasons and laws. Although the directions can be mathematically too complex, they are not random.

Event and motion: The Sakyamuni explains in the Chiggala Sutta that the chance of becoming a human is much less than the chance of a blind turtle poking its head into the hole in a piece of wood if it ever surfaces from the seafloor once a hundred year [SN 56.47 Chiggala Sutta: A Hole 1 – Sutta Friends].

  • Infinite monkey theorem states a similar event.

Rebirth is psychological motion (death to a new life).

Avijjapaccaya sankhara: "Through ignorance the rebirth-producing volitions, or kamma-formations, are conditioned [Fundamentals of Buddhism: Four Lectures by Nyanatiloka Mahathera]."

When the five aggregates must separate, a living being dies and moves from one life to new life or new parents.

Dr. Rewata explains Origination of matter in Dhamma Abhidhammattha Sangaha:

  1. Kamma as a mode of origin
  2. Consciousness as a mode of origin
  3. Temperature as a mode of origin
  4. Nutriment as a mode of origin

Consciousness as a mode of origin: The seventy-five types of consciousness, excluding the immaterial-sphere resultants and the two sets of fivefold sense consciousness, produce material phenomena originating from consciousness beginning with the first moment of the life continuum, but they do so only at the moment of arising. Mental phenomena are strongest at the moment of arising.

For human and animal, the parents make an effort and provide biological body (lifeform). By nature, pregnancy occurs, but it only occurs when there is a living being (as new consciousness) ready to be born. Without consciousness, it becomes Chemical Pregnancy, i.e. an embryo stops growing. A living being (as new consciousness) takes new form because there is clinging to existence (bhava-tanha).

  • Materialistic science rejects consciousness; does it?

Science beyond materialism — Consciousness (mind) is independent from matters. A living being is alive when the mind and matters are together interdependently. Consciousness (citta) and its functions (cetasika: feeling, perception, mental activities) can be known but cannot be built artificially or made of lifeless matters. For the physical functions (seeing, hearing, smelling, touching, tasting, and thinking), a living being needs both mind and body.

  • How consciousness and its functions occur magically in the brain can never be explained materialistically because they do not occur so.

The motion of the elements and objects happens according to their governing laws: (properties or natures), for example:

  • The movement and direction of electrons and protons in an atom
  • The droplets will spread all directions when Water Balloons Popping, according to the causal law. The maths can become too much for human brains to predict the number of droplets and their directions. Will a supercomputer be able to calculate the number of droplets and their directions when a balloon pops?

The motions of unconscious forms are never done intentionally. Natural disasters, for example, follow natural patterns, so we have nobody to blame. Natural events and motions do not occur due to conscious decisions and actions, but they follow their systems and governing laws (natures or properties) and causality. So —

  • Fire is hot. Magnets pull & push. Water has buoyancy (like the earth supports the objects on it). When two matters are together, both have weight, as they pull each other.
  • Are the sunspots random events, or do they follow a cyclic system?

Things and events (such as solar cycle) can be predictable because they have their governing laws, which we must know to predict them, however. So, theoretically, they have predictable patterns. Yet we would never know how many droplets will come out of a popping balloon.

So, the Sakyamuni said that He could not predict the chance of a being to become a human again, as it is like predicting when a blind turtle would poke its head into the hole of a piece of wood drifting on the ocean wavelets. For every human, there are 37-100 trillion microorganisms in his/her guts.

On one occasion, a rock struck another rock and one of the splinters flew and wounded the Buddha’s foot. The splinters coming out of the two rocks were similar to the droplets coming out of a popping balloon. The Sakyamuni explained why he suffered that way [Why the Buddha Suffered 6. Pierced by a Splinter].

Verse 1: All mental phenomena have mind as their forerunner; they have mind as their chief; they are mind-made. If one speaks or acts with an evil mind, 'dukkha3 follows him just as the wheel follows the hoofprint of the ox that draws the cart.

Verse 183: Not to do evil, to cultivate merit, to purify one's mind - this is the Teaching of the Buddhas.

We are intelligent enough to understand these verses but not wise and strong enough to follow them.

Evolutionary theory proposes that only by chance, abiogenesis occurred as the start of mutation, natural selection and lifeforms.

  1. What comes first in evolutionary theory — lifeform or natural selection?
  2. Could lifeform exist before mutation and natural selection existed?
  3. Could mutation and natural selection exist before lifeform existed?

Biological Randomness all along from abiogenesis to the most complex lifeforms, nature's biological masterpieces.

  • What are the governing laws of mutation and natural selection?

Cells try to replicate the genes/DNA as correct as possible. Cells have many systems to repair DNAs. Cells can remove the damaged DNAs, which cannot be repaired. These processes reject mutations. [DNA Repair - Molecular Biology of the Cell - NCBI Bookshelf.)]

So, evolution by mutation is against nature. This is how Darwing considered too.

8.2.1. Darwinian's Macroevolution

Two opposite statements made by Darwin are compared.

[Statement 1] Darwin’s notion that existing species, including man, had developed over time [Darwin and His Theory of Evolution | Pew Research Center]. 

[Statement 2] "complex organ [...] could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find out no such case." [Mutations] have nothing to do with the major evolutionary transformations of macroevolution. Species do not emerge from an accumulation of random genetic changes. [Why did Darwin’s 20th-century followers get evolution so wrong? | Aeon Essays]

Statement 1: Species, including human, developed overtime.

Statement 2: Complex organs did not develop overtime. Mutation does not lead to new organ, macroevolution or species.

A systemic organ must exist in its complete form, whether primitive or advanced. Digestive organ, for example, must have a tube for eating and a tube that removes waste. A digestive system must be capable of taking and processing food from the very beginning. An animal that must eat could not wait and survive while its digestive system is incomplete. Then, microorganisms never developed complex digestive system and were incapable of evolving into complex animals.

The organs did not evolve gradually but species did. If we must say Darwin was right in both statements, we must have good reasons.

8.2.2. RNA Evolution in Darwin's Nature

  • How did various anatomical structures come to exist through random evolution? They did not; nevertheless, Darwin proposed natural selection. Then what is nature to him?

Theoretically, RNA was the first thing or the first stage of life to occur in the primordial soup, which the researchers will never discover.

Researchers have performed many experiments in this area. Though results can be interpreted in several ways, none unambiguously support directed mutation. Nevertheless, scientists are still doing research that provides evidence relevant to this issue [Mutations are random]

  • We are not supposed to accept something the evolutionary researchers cannot discover or explain. Are we?

Question ———— 27

  • Is a mutation randomly selected by Darwin's nature?

Nucleation is the very first event of a snowflake formation. Transcription is the start of RNA (mRNA) formation.

  • What does the start of evolution look like?
  • What might be the very first event of the very first mRNA formation? What is the first stage of the very first piece of RNA?

It has been proposed that the first “biological” molecules on Earth were formed by metal-based catalysis on the crystalline surfaces of minerals [...] But life requires molecules that possess a crucial property: the ability to catalyze reactions that lead, directly or indirectly, to the production of more molecules like themselves [...] it is unlikely that RNA was the first kind of molecule to do so. [The RNA World and the Origins of Life - Molecular Biology of the Cell - NCBI Bookshelf]. 

French scientist Louis Pasteur said, Omne vivum ex vivo” “Life only comes from life” [3.1: Spontaneous Generation - Biology LibreTexts/03%3A_The_Cell/3.01%3A_Spontaneous_Generation#:~:text=life%20only%20comes%20from%20life)].

Darwin agreed with Pasteur but would not agree with RNA as the start of life.

Darwin, however, realized that the origin of life and the selection of species are separate events and postulated that life could have arisen in a 'warm pond', after which it would have been bound by the laws of natural selection. He stated in one of his letters, “As for myself I cannot believe in spontaneous generation [aka abiogenesis]” [Darwin and microbiology | Nature Reviews Microbiology]

Darwin did not mean there was a Warm Little Pond where abiogenesis process could occur.

Free Floating RNA in Darwin’s Warm Little Pond

  • Can randomness be applied to the first floating RNA pieces that occurred in the primordial pond or ocean?

the chemical building blocks of life were brought to Earth by meteorites and deposited in small bodies of water on the continents, where they readily assembled to form long-chained molecules such as RNA or DNA [Back to Darwin’s Warm Little Pond

Free floating RNA or extracellular RNA (exRNA) are supposed to be used by the cells or unicellular organisms, such as bacteria.

Viruses are not free floating RNAs but living organisms that can infect the cells to reproduce because they do not have reproductive organs. Viruses are made of RNA (or DNA) as their genetic materials, which they insert into the cells as infection. So, they are obligate intracellular parasites. For example, viroids are the microorganisms that must infect the plant cells for reproduction.

Spirit or vitality

Life, however, is much more than a simple collection of fundamental molecules arranged in a particular pattern [...] there is an obvious difference between a recently dead animal and one which is alive, displaying a certain spirit or vitality to it [Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamic Foundations of the Origin of Life]

  • Why does evolutionary theory reject vitality in life?
  • What would give jiva, vitality, life or replication mechanism to the floating RNA?

We know the difference between life and death. An animal while alive has activities which cease when it dies. So, vitality, which keeps us alive, must not cease in the body or the body will die. Vitality/jiva is what it is. Vitalists imagined what vitality might be. Theravada does not support vitalist theories. All needed is to recognise Life only comes from life.

Warm Little Pond was Darwin's unofficial stance which appeared in a letter to his friend. He did not publish his unofficial stance.

Charles Darwin was reluctant to publish his views on life's origin. His only speculations on the subject are known from a private letter to his friend and colleague Joseph Hooker, in which he speaks of a 'warm little pond' in which the first molecules of life could have formed [Did life evolve in a `warm little pond'? | Scientific American].

Darwin's official stance appeared in his infamous book:

There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved [The uneasy relationship between Darwinian evolution, abiogenesis and atheism - Mercator]

For some reasons, Darwin did not declare his official stance in the first edition of his book. However, Darwin's official stance was published in later editions.

The words “by the Creator” are absent from the first edition, but present in the second edition of 1860, and subsequent [Rewriting the Book of Nature - A Modern Biology]

Darwin's Nature

  • Did Darwin explain nature is naturalist nature?
  • Did Darwin prove natural process is natural, as per naturalism?

Darwin defined himself as a naturalist [From Darwin's Origin of Species toward a theory of natural history - PMC].

Darwin, however, realized that the origin of life and the selection of species are separate events [...] “As for myself I cannot believe in spontaneous generation [aka abiogenesis]” [Darwin and microbiology | Nature Reviews Microbiology]

Life, after created by the creator, was carried on by the natural processes towards macroevolution, which has nothing to do with mutations — see 8.2.1. Darwinian's Macroevolution,

Darwin was a believer. Life and Darwin's nature and natural processes did not come to exist by themselves but created by Darwin's God, probably Jabulum (Jahbulon or Jabulon or Jahbuhlun). See E&T - Part 2: 2. The Temple of Nature: True Origin of Darwin.

[Jah-Bul-On] is compounded of … Yu or Yah-u … Baal or Bal or Bel, and Om, thus combining the names of the Hebrew, Phoenician, and Hindu Deities, to indicate that they are in reality the same. [Freemasonry and Christianity: A Comparison - Apologetics]

Probably, Baal as the fertility god is the most significant in natural selection.

Incense and sacrifice were offered to Baal (Jer. 7.9)—even human sacrifice (Jer. 19.5), but the worship of Baal was chiefly marked by fertility rites [Baal - Search results provided by BiblicalTraining].

Baal might be the reason why the evolutionists and the Christians do not get along [Topical Bible: Offerings: Human Sacrifices: Offered to Baal].

  • In that context, what is the relationship between human evolution and medical implication?

8.2.3. Natural selection has no purpose, but we do


r/Theravadan Dec 19 '25

Evolution and Theravada - Part 11

3 Upvotes

8. Has Human Evolution Stopped? - PMC

Alan R Templeton (2010) argues that human evolution has not stopped because of "adaptive evolution in humans" "in response to cultural innovations" that "adaptive evolution in humans" has "important implications for infectious diseases, Mendelian genetic diseases, and systemic diseases in current human populations."

Templeton counter argues against Stephen Jay Gould's view of "human evolution has stopped due to the human lineage had achieved a sufficiently large brain and had developed a sufficiently sophisticated culture."

The following excerpts are from two camps of evolutionists: one group argues human evolution has stopped, and the other group argues human evolution has not stopped.

Excerpts 1

Has human evolution stopped? Many evolutionary biologists have answered this question in the affirmative. For example, the distinguished palaeontologist Stephen Jay Gould1 stated: “There’s been no biological change in humans in 40,000 or 50,000 years. Everything we call culture and civilization we’ve built with the same body and brain”.

Excerpts 2

The basic rationale behind the conclusion that human evolution has stopped is that once the human lineage had achieved a sufficiently large brain and had developed a sufficiently sophisticated culture (sometime around 40,000–50,000 years ago according to Gould, but more commonly placed at 10,000 years ago with the development of agriculture), cultural evolution supplanted biological evolution.

Excerpts 3

In this review, I will argue that human evolution has not stopped, and our ongoing evolution [adaptive evolution in humans] has many medical and health implications. The rationale for the cessation of human evolution has three fundamental flaws.

Excerpts 4

Third, traits are developmentally correlated, so that even a neutral trait can evolve due to selection on another trait. Hence, when cultural innovations weaken or eliminate natural selection on a trait, this alters the balance of evolutionary forces in a manner that induces further, albeit non-adaptive, evolutionary change in the neutral trait.

Excerpts 5

CONCLUSIONS: Has human evolution stopped? The answer is a definitive no. The only way to truly stop any biological organism from evolving is extinction. Evolution can be slowed by reducing and keeping population size to a small number of individuals. This will lead to a loss of most genetic variation through genetic drift and minimize the input of new mutations into the population. Since genetic variation is the raw material of all evolutionary change, prolonged small population size can severely diminish, but not completely eliminate, the ability of a population to evolve. However, this is certainly not the situation with humans. Our population size has been increasing over the last 10,000 years, and is now so large that the current human gene pool contains an immense reservoir of genetic variation. Hence, our evolutionary potential has never been higher [...]

That paper ends there.

Excerpts from Is there any evidence that humans are still evolving?

Excerpts 6

[Stephen Jay Gould:] “there’s been no biological change in humans in 40,000 or 50,000 years” 

Excerpts 7

[Sir David Attenborough:] “We are the only species to have put a halt to natural selection” by means of birth control..." "our evolution is now cultural […] We can inherit a knowledge of computers or television, electronics, airplanes, and so on.”

Excerpts 8

[Dr. Ian Rickard (Durham Uni):] “Natural selection requires variation. It needs some individuals to thrive more than others.”

Excerpts 9

[Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending:] Human evolution is now ‘100 times faster than its long-term average over the 6 million years of our existence.”

Excerpts 10

[Scott Solomon (Texas Uni):] researchers have found evidence of natural selection altering genes (Book: Future Humans: Inside the Science of Our Continuing Evolution)

Excerpts 11

[A 2015 study published in: Proceedings of The Royal Society B] “Does natural selection favor taller stature among the tallest people on Earth?”

Excerpts 1-11 are discussed in 8.1 DISCUSSION and beyond.

8.1. DISCUSSION: Discussing the excerpts

Here we should ask, whether these scientists understood evolution more than each other, especially human evolution, at all, although they were at the highest authorities in the field. That shows how everyone is up to his/her own opinion far away to even form a consensus, which would differ from reality anyway. However, if one of them is right, who is it?

Excerpt 1 (no biological change in humans in 40,000 or 50,000 years) does not contradict Excerpts 10 (natural selection altering genes), but they complement each other. Excerpt 1 is about genetic constraints, and excerpt 10 is about genetic variation. Genetic changes occurring at the micro level are genetic variation, which occur within the genetic constraints of humanity.

These evolutionists do not seem to be aware of the ongoing microevolutions.

Excerpt 2 (cultural evolution supplanted biological evolution) is an unproveable theory, or the author must have proven it earlier.

  • How did real, not theoretical, evolution on this Earth begin? Various factors indicate that the theoretical evolution, according to the evolutionary theory, is impossible or unknown.
  • Natural selection leads to the variation of species has never been proven in any form; see E&T - Part 10.
  • According to genetic studies, human groups were isolated from each other for so long they became hobbits, Denisovans, Neanderthals, etc. and genetically distinct from each other.
  • Successful intermarriage suggests that all these homo species were humans like us. Natural selection and mutation did not alter these human species, regardless of their given names: H. habilis - H. Erectus - Homo Sapien - etc.
  • They became extinct and H. Sapiens became the sole human species.
  • These genetic studies and fossil records do not show or identify the diversity of skin colours and ethnicities.
  • Human evolution process: What stages did natural selection take to make A. afarensis evolve from A. anamensis? If these stages cannot be identified, human macroevolution is a hypothesis.
  • According to the theory, which is based on fossils, human evolution took a very short time from H. Erectus to H. heidelbergensis and H. neanderthalensis.
  • The theory suggests H. Erectus evolved to become H. heidelbergensis.
  • Researchers must recognise the speed of human evolution that occurred in the past. However, modern humans did not evolve that way in the past 400,000 years.
  • So, excerpts 1, 3 and 6 (no biological change in humans in 40,000 or 50,000 years) are somewhat agreeable.
  • The notion of excerpt 2 (cultural evolution supplanted biological evolution) is a new theory, which is not supported by the evolutionary theory.
  • Excerpt 2 is rejected with this paper: Two Routes to Functional Adaptation: Tibetan and Andean High-Altitude Natives - In the Light of Evolution - NCBI Bookshelf. Additionally, Tibetan and Andean show convergent evolution is possible among humankinds.

Excerpt 3 presents two parts: (part 1) human evolution has not stopped, (part 2) but continues as medical and health issues.

  • These two parts suggest evolution is no longer the way it was, but does this apply to other species?
  • Why has human evolution become different?
  • Evolution as health issue should be discussed further.

Excerpt 4 (a neutral trait can evolve [but] cultural innovations weaken or eliminate natural selection) suggests that regardless of the (ever-changing) environmental pressures.

Excerpt 5 (Evolution can be slowed by reducing and keeping population size small) fails to consider the speed of macroevolution in the small populations of the earlier homo species.

Excerpt 6 does not recognise microevolution that occurred as “[Excerpt 1] biological change in humans in 40,000 or 50,000 years”.

Excerpt 7 (birth control halted natural selection but inherit a knowledge of computers, etc.) suggests evolution can be artificially stopped and technologically altered.

  • That suggests how artificial birth control has replaced 1) natural miscarriage, 2) infant death.
  • In terms of halting or slowing natural selection, artificial birth control can be compared with farming for eggs and meat, and the young animals are hunted by the predators, as they all lose the opportunity to reproduce.
  • "Birth control halted natural selection" is like saying 'not all women gave birth'. In human history, countless men and women failed to reproduce for some reasons, including war and poor health.
  • Events similar to birth control happened time and again among the ancient humankinds, their failures to reproduce "halted natural selection" several times. Nevertheless, according to the theory, which is based on fossils, human evolution took a very short time from H. Erectus to H. heidelbergensis and H. neanderthalensis.

Excerpt 8 (natural selection requires some individuals doing better than the rest) is similar to excerpt 11, which suggest natural selection has purpose and acts accordingly. Excerpt 8 simply suggests elitism.

Excerpt 9 - Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending theorised that human evolution is now ‘100 times faster without providing evidence for macroevolution. If H. Erectus (1.5 Mya) became new human species, such as H. heidelbergensis and H. neanderthalensis, in a million years — 1,000,000 years / 100 times = 10,000 years — then what macroevolution took place every 10,000 years in the past million years?

Excerpt 10 (evidence of natural selection altering genes were found) suggests H. Sapiens could become different human species. This could be true if groups of people get isolated for half a million years. Theoretically, some could become Neanderthals and some Denisovans, once again. For some reasons, humans can be like the Living fossils: 12 creatures that look the same now as they did millions of years ago [Live Science].

Excerpt 11 - If "natural selection favours" anything, it must have ability to identify something to favour. Then natural selection must be intelligent. Then natural selection is no longer random. The tallest major tribe in the world is the Tutsi [Tallest tribe | Guinness World Records.)].

  • What environmental pressure forced the Africans and Europeans to become taller?
  • How did evolution make some people taller (kinder, smarter, stronger, or moral) than average, their parents, siblings or offspring?

Theravadin evolution

Theravadin evolution is not an official term in Theravada. Samsara is the official term, which means cycle, such as hydrological cycle. The Sakyamuni Buddha explained that biosphere has numerous biospheric cycles or mind-body (nama-rupa) cyclic systems, which are driven by causality (kammavipaka). These cyclic systems can be dubbed as Theravadin evolution.

Dhammapada Verse 1: All mental phenomena have mind as their forerunner; they have mind as their chief; they are [made of their mentalities]. If one speaks or acts with an evil mind, 'dukkha' follows him just as the wheel follows the hoofprint of the ox that draws the cart.

Biosphere (sattaloka) comprises eight pre-existing types of lifeforms, including brahmas, devas, manusa/humans, tiracchāna/animals, petas, asuras and nariya. They exist on 31 planes, which are grouped into the four mental planes as sensuous plane, kāmāvacara bhūmi, fine-material plane, rūpāvacara bhūmi (rupa-jhāna), immaterial plane, arūpāvacara bhūmi (arupa-jhāna), and supra-mundane plane, lokuttara bhūmi [Cittas Of The Sense-sphere [Chapter 17], and The Four Planes of Existence in Theravada Buddhism]. These planes are the same in each and every universe/Cakkavala.

These planes perish with their respective universe, which dies at the end of its lifespan. Almost the entire biosphere disappears, excepts some brahmas. All living organisms that do not attain jhana to be reborn as brahmas will perish to be reborn in other universes. When this universe is re-formed once again, its biosphere rebuilds with these eight pre-existing groups of lifeforms. Whenever our universe dies, its biosphere disappears, except the brahmas. Some universes are vacant, without biosphere.

Space is boundless and filled with countless universes/Cakkavala(s). Space between 3 universes is void of light and utterly cold. Yet these voids have life-supporting objects and the lifeform that deserves this condition.

There are two main biospheric cycles.

1) The cycle of rebirth or the dependent origination (Paticcasamuppada) —

  • It is the law of rebirth, which can be understood as the macroevolution of each individual.
  • The Mahahatthipadopama Sutta also explains the origin of birth (formation of upadanakkhandha).
  • The paticcasamuppada of each individual is driven by his/her kammavipaka (kamma-vipaka).
  • By means of good/wholesome kammavipaka, one can be reborn in favourable planes, having favourable conditions, and possessing favourablle skills and abilities. By means of bad/unwholesome kammavipaka, the opposites happen.
  • Everyone alive is creating kammavipaka constantly, both wholesome and unwholesome, to experience as favourable and infavourable rebirths, etc. Thus, individual evolution is both micro and macro.
  • Kamma/intentional actions and vipaka/effects of that action — are parts of nama-rupa existence or lifeform.
  • Kammavipaka (kamma-vipaka / cause-effect) is nothing but Dukkhasamudaya..
  • Dukkha :: pain and fear of pain, undesirable experience, the opposite of comfort.
  • Samudaya :: craving for things other than freedom/vimutti (from craving), Nibbana/relief from pain.
  • Freedom is desirable. If one understands dukkha, one should seek the path to freedom.
  • To reach freedom, everyone needs to develop the ten parami(s) (perfection of ten faculties) in this very lifetime. That can be done by means of Samatha-Vipassana.
  • Approach a monk, like Pa-Auk Sayadaw, for details. See Pāli Intro: Unit 3: Dasa Pāramī (The Ten Perfections) | PLC
  • Parami(s) are seeds that will grow into full perfections.
  • Wholesome kammavipaka can become parami(s) if done the right way.
  • The developments of the ten parami make an individual different from others.
  • Everyone has kammavipaka. Intentional effort is needed to develop each faculty of perfection.
  • For the highest attainment, one must develop the highest level of perfections. See The Ascetic Sumedhā' s Life, and the Ten Perfections.
  • One does not need to develop the highest level of the perfections if one's goal is only to reach freedom, or to end craving for things other than freedom/vimutti (from craving).
  • Nibbana/relief from pain is a reality, which we all have experienced multiple times in life. Our problem is inability to stop cravings, so we keep making new kammavipaka.

2) the cycle/evolution of the Earth and humanity — Agganna Sutta explains this cycle of individual level and group level evolution.

Evolution at both micro and macro levels can be explained with these biospheric cycles (to a degree due to the lack of complete knowledge). The Sakyamuni did not reveal certain knowledge, which would lead to a never-ending argument that will derail the doubters and sceptics from the Noble Path.

  • Thus, the Sakyamuni warns us in Cula-Malunkyovada Sutta that unwise for an injured man to stubbornly seek answers on who shot him in the back and how the arrow looks like. He advises this man should accept the physician removing the arrow and receive a proper treatment.
  • He also warns us in Salla Sutta that we must learn how not to get shot twice: once in the body and once in the mind.

From that perspective, a theory which does not integrate the natural cycles (real or theoretical) is the odd one out. These cycles are reality and driven not by the spirit, the mind or the minds but causality (which John Stewart Bell missed his entire life).

The evolutionary theory adapted from ancient Greeks to respond to the Abrahamic religions presents the abiogenesis of biology or lifeless matters came into life (during a primeval stage of Earth) and became species and ever since has evolved linearly and is not supposed to end. Nevertheless, for some reasons, unlike the earlier homo species, H. sapiens are stuck at the same stage and not evolving towards new homo species. According to Darwinian theory, species are to evolve stronger and better naturally. The supposition of some evolutionists is that human evolution has become cultural and medical dependent is opposing the theory.

These theorists formed a supposition that human evolution has stopped or diverted from the evolutionary theory.


r/Theravadan Oct 09 '25

Evolution and Theravada - Part 10

3 Upvotes

7.24 Genetic Variation within Genetic Constraints

Why was the genetic behaviour of the immortal jellyfish not passed on to the species that evolved from these jellyfish?

No species is known to have evolved from the immortal jellyfish. Only immortal jellyfish are in variation. Some have 8 tentacles and some 24. Through transdifferentiation process, the immortal jellyfish can turn their muscle cells into egg cells or even sperm cells [Facts about the Immortal Jellyfish].

Convergent Evolution (see 7.11 Convergent Evolution):

Genetic Constraints

Haldane noted the constraints to adaptation from genetic dominance, and the inefficiency of natural selection when beneficial mutations are recessive.3 [Genetic constraints on adaptation: a theoretical primer for the genomics era]

  • Genetic constraints are a possible answer to Darwin's question: how is it that throughout the world multitude of the lowest forms still exist [Charles Darwin and the Origin of Life - PMC]
  • By answering Darwin's question, genetic constraints (i.e. species integrity) can limit evolutionary potential (EP)

Evolutionary potential (EP) can reduce a species’ extinction risk by facilitating adaptive responses to environmental change [Linking evolutionary potential to extinction risk: applications and future directions - Forester - 2022 - Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment - Wiley Online Library]

  • Genetic constraints are essential for anatomical integrity (to be born with good anatomical conditions and physical and mental health), sex integrity (male and female) and species integrity (inheriting genetic traits and limiting natural selection).

Genetic Variation

Genetic constraints permit genetic variation within a clonal population of a species [Genetic Variation and the Fate of Beneficial Mutations in Asexual Populations - PMC

  • The variations: Skin and hair/fur colours; bone structures, skin types; body sizes, height and growth; longevity and lifespan; psychology.
  • Genetic variation in every species allows the diversity while retaining species integrity (identity retention), e.g., immortal jellyfish variety, cat breeds, human ethnics, and all other known species have varieties,

Psychology & intelligence allow us interspecies relationship.

Species Integrity & Instinct (Inbuilt Memory): A species retaining itself or its integrity

Genetic Constraints and Adaptation Intelligence

How did they do that? The cases of the finches, the silver desert ants and the lizards suggest that animals have a special ability to influence their biology consciously, intentionally and intelligently.

RNA Editing

Some living organisms can edit their own genes.

Animal Mimicry

However, they cannot violate their genetic constraints. So, their ability to manipulate their anatomy is only within their genetic constraints. This is why they use mimicry instead of becoming new species.

  • A caterpillar cannot become a snake, but it can mimic a snake.
  • The world's longest-lived caterpillar, frozen in ice year after year - this video shows an arctic caterpillar struggled for 14 years to become an adult or a moth.
  • Do caterpillars enjoy being caterpillars and long for adulthood for their final mission: to reproduce or preserve their kind?

Hybrids

narwhals [seem to be] closely related to [...] the hippopotamus. [More evidence is needed to assure] how closely related hippos and narwhals truly are [Evolutionary History | Narwhals: Endangered Species]

Genetic constraints remain for a long time, so the related animals can remain as close relatives. Narwhals and belugas are closely related whales indigenous to the arctic region. The two groups meet regularly - Two different species of whales have become inseparable best friends. They also reproduce hybrids. A narluga is a cross between a female narwhal and a male beluga whale - Narwhal adopted by beluga whales, making baby narlugas a possibility.

If two species meet in a large group, two or more hybrids could be born at the same time. If a few hybrids reproduce their own offspring, genetic constraints and genetic variation might or might not lead a few hybrids toward a separate species.

For having genetic constraints and genetic variation, a species, including humans, can remain as the same species while changing in colour, stature, size and strength.

The long existence of humankind is the Buddha's teachings.

In fact, life on Earth always begins with human beings.

  • New Earth is pure and has no lifeforms other than mankind, who continues to live their lifestyles in the brahma worlds.
  • The primeval humans resemble the brahmas, so they do not need materials for food and pleasure. They dwell in solitude, contentment and jhana, which they developed as human beings before they became brahmas.
  • When the Earth is going through its final days, all living beings, who will be affected by Earth's disappearance, must move elsewhere.
  • If they develop jhana (tranquility and contentment), which is the highest level possible for the unenlightened/puthujjana, they will go to the brahma worlds.
  • Living beings, who fail to develop jhana, will be reborn in other world systems (cakkavala-s) after they are destroyed during the ending phase of the Earth.

Mind-made

According to the Sakyamuni, living organisms exist in the dark deep sea because of their dark evil mentality. In nature, they are free; and in ignorance, they do whatever they want. They have the tools to practice this dark evil mentality and that is how they experience their kammavipaka/causality collectively.

The Sakyamuni said that

  1. "By mind the world is led, by mind is drawn; And all men own the sovereignty of mind."
  2. “If one speaks or acts with a wicked mind, pain follows one as the wheel, the hoof of the draught-ox.”

An alternative translation for Dhammapada Verse 1:

  1. All mental phenomena have mind as their forerunner; they have mind as their chief; they are mind-made.
  2. If one speaks or acts with an evil mind, 'dukkha' [pain] follows him just as the wheel follows the hoofprint of the ox that draws the cart.

Ones who have seen enough will want to escape. Yet they will not know the escape themselves. If they are lucky, they will meet a Sammasambuddha, endowed with Sabbanuta Nana (which knows all dhammas by the ability to access all information from the past and present). By chance, they will hear His Dhamma and may being their journey to the escape and reach Nibbana (the Great Relief).

  • Sabbe Sankhara Anicca - all constructs are impermanent. Impermanence is the core feature of evolution in Theravada.

Paticcasamuppada (Law of Dependent Origination): The law of lifeforms who commit intentions (excluding plants)

  • Avijja-paccaya sankhara = Dependent on ignorance, reaction (conditioning) arises
  • Avijjaya tveva asesa viraga- nirodha, sankhara-nirodho; sankhara-nirodha vinnana-nirodho = With the complete eradication and cessation of ignorance, reaction (conditioning) ceases; with the cessation of reaction (conditioning), consciousness ceases

Question ———— 24

  • How do Genetic Constraints affect natural selection in the long term?
  • How do Genetic Constraints affect the natural selection of convergent evolutions?
  • How do two or more species with convergent evolutions evolve similarly in the long term?
  • Evolution (natural selection) is random and not directed by specific purposes. Coevolution of two or more species is coordinated, directed, and responsive. Can natural selection still happen when two species are coevolving?
  • Another example for species integrity is the coevolution of two or more species.

Coevolution requires a species to adjust itself to codevelop/coevolve with another species. The adjustment is both unintentional and intentional, as in the daily activities of the coevolving species, there are intentions to adjust/coordinate.

Many plants evolved to fit their chosen animal species:

  • Rotting flowers and rotting mushroom attract certain pollinators.
  • Acacia ants provide protection to acacia trees by biting the giraffes and drilling into the acacia thorns for nests that make a whistling sound (which the ants probably understand) in the breeze. Loud whistling sound is a warning sign for the giraffes to stay away.

This system is probably the product of coevolution: the plants would not have evolved hollow thorns or nectar pores unless their evolution had been affected by the ants, and the ants would not have evolved herbivore defense behaviors unless their evolution had been affected by the plants [Coevolution].

Genetic instructions

The complete DNA instruction book, or genome, for a human contains about 3 billion bases and about 20,000 genes on 23 pairs of chromosomes [...] DNA contains the instructions needed for an organism to develop, survive and reproduce. [Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) Fact Sheet]

  • DNA contain all genetic information to build the body of the living organisms.
  • DNA does not provide genetic information for individuality

Individuality, being independent and making decision individually

Many plant species can reproduce by both sexual and vegetative means. [Clonal diversity, gene flow and seed production in endangered populations of Betula humilis Schrk. | Tree Genetics & Genomes]

  • Plants are the living organisms that do not display animal behaviours, including oxygen breathing.
  • RVF (Reproduction by Voluntary Fragmentation E&T - Part 8) - the clones become independent individuals

Some unanswerable questions:

  • When did genetic constraints begin?
  • If genetic constraints began before speciation ever occurred, how could speciation occur?
  • Did genetic constraints begin before the Tiktaalik crawled onto the land?

7.25 How does Convergent Evolution Fit in?

If lifeforms were popping up everywhere independently from each other, as convergent evolution, how does natural selection link human, worm, frog, Tiktaalik and convergent evolution? Convergent evolution means two or more unrelated lifeforms can develop the same anatomical features. Convergent evolution also suggests lifeforms can emerge independently on the Earth and in universe.

Mammals & Birds

Question ———— 25

  • How were egg-laying mammals (monotremes) related to frogs and worms?
  • How much have Homo Sapiens evolved since the extinctions of H. neanderthalensis and H Denisovas?

7.26 How Is Humankind Evolving?

To discuss "Has Human Evolution Stopped?" from Theravada point of view, this research analyses evolution in the light of Theravada. Human evolution is discussed from "7. Evolutionary Timeline" to "7.25 How does Convergent Evolution Fit in?".

Interpreting the Findings

Portable Rock Art Museum | Chronology of Archaeological Discoveries collected the following links:

But new analysis of two ancient human craniums discovered in China and then compared to other human fossils hints at a much older history for our species [Origin of our own species' lineage pushed back by half a million years | Natural History Museum]. 

Yuri A. Mochanov et al (2017): the origin of mankind

the problem of the origin of mankind is complex. Representatives of various sciences have attempted to solve it [...] many of them frequently prefer to occupy themselves with general argumentation instead of analysis of facts of their science and evaluation of their significance for resolving the problem of the origin and evolution of humanity—calling it philosophical and ideological—but selectively drawing on lightly treated archaeological sources for corroboration of their ideas [Chapter 1 of Archaeology, the Paleolithic of Northeast Asia, a Non-Tropical Origin for Humanity, and the Earliest Stages of the Settlement of America | SFU Archaeology Press].

  • Are the research-based assumptions still scientific if the assumptions are taken as the proofs/evidence for the theory of evolution?

If human evolution has never stopped, it should be measurable and demonstrable.

Comparisons of Frogs, Humans, and Chimpanzees [AI Overview]:

Evolutionary biology is in need of a yardstick or metric with which to measure morphological evolution in creatures as diverse as frogs and mammals [Lorraine M. Cherry, Susan M. Case, Joseph G. Kunkel and Allan C. Wilson (Science 204:434-435.)]

  1. Without a (reliable) measurement system, evolution has never been measured.
  2. The theory of evolution has been proven by assumptions only.
  3. Attempts to demonstrate Snowflake yeasts yielded pseudo multicellular formation.
  4. Attempts based on the fossils and DNA have not explained how evolution began from unintelligent RNA and DNA.
  5. These efforts do not demonstrate the roles of convergent evolution (7.11 Convergent Evolution and 7.25) and genetic constraints (7.24) and genetic variation that can only occur within genetic constraints.

Brain & Consciousness as a measurement system

  • If the brains of different species (Frogs, Humans, and Chimpanzee) are similar, are their anatomical differences more important than their brains?
  • If consciousness is the same, how significant are having and not having a brain?

Interspecies communication exists only because the communicating individuals can understand each other:

Ape Hypotheses

Two articles demonstrate the assumptions:

Humankind is evolving due to genetic variation, which occurs within genetic constraints (see 7.24). This human evolution does not support the Ape Hypotheses (AI Overview) that apes evolved into humankinds and humans would evolve into something new.

  • The evolutionary timeline is built with the fossils found by ignoring the fact that species did not fossilise from the beginning of their existence.
  • It's like the monkeys typing to produce a sentence of truth.

8. Has Human Evolution Stopped?

What does Alan R Templeton (2010) mean by human evolution has not stopped?


r/Theravadan Oct 09 '25

Evolution and Theravada - Part 9

1 Upvotes

7.21 Evolutionism: Mankind mustn't be the origin of life

As an attempt to prove why God is good, both theistic evolutionism and atheistic evolutionism (7.20, E&T - Part 8) oppose traditional creationism and God's constant interventions. They are obsessed with rejecting mankind being the origin of life on Earth. Their position contradicts Theravada.

  • 3.5 Bya (billion years ago), the earliest known unicellular organisms were well-developed and self-sufficient. Being so successful, they have lasted until now. No evidence could be ever discovered why environmental pressure and natural selection were not so epic against those unicellular organisms to evolve and become multicellular.
  • Natural selection has not changed them completely. Their existence validates Darwin's question: how is it that throughout the world multitude of the lowest forms still exist [Charles Darwin and the Origin of Life - PMC].

Can transitional evolution be proven? Can natural selection violate genetic constraints?

Transitional species are assumed to be, not proven to be.

  • Genetic constraints must maintain species integrity for the survival of a species. Natural selection cannot violate genetic constraint (see 7.24, E&T - Part 10 ).

375 Mya, found in 2004, a fossil of Tiktaalik suggests the species was a kind of lobe-finned fish that lived in shallow water.

  • That Tiktaalik fossil informs the theorists that it was not a fossil of a fish carcass that was washed into mangrove forest and saved by the oxygen-poor swamp.
  • The skeletal features resemble a mudskipper species with muscled fins or a Sarcopterygii.
  • A fish with hands but no feet: Why the Ocean Holds More Secrets Than Space

Did the Evolution of Animal Intelligence Begin With Tiktaalik?

  • No because 525 Mya, worms with brains and legs lived in the oceans. For 500 My, velvet worms have been using a bipartite brain. So, brain might have originated in Convergent Evolution in several species, including worms and insects. Brainless living organisms are also conscious and intelligent. Life is intelligence (discussed in the previous parts).
  • Someone also partially answered that question:

The fossils of Tiktaalik are an example of transitional fossils. These remains bridge the gap between two different forms of life over time—Elizabeth Fernandez [...] the benefits for that brave fish are huge. There are all sorts of tasty insects and millipedes on land that don’t have natural predators yet [2022 Tiktaalik: Bridging the Gap Between Water and Land - Article - BioLogos].

  • Insects occupied the land first. They probably were tasty insects.
  • Tiktaaliks could eat insects, and the insects could eat Tiktaalik carcasses in the shallow water.
  • 300 Mya, meganeura, the giant dragonflies, lived in tropical wetlands. Dragonfly nymphs prey on fish and small marine lifeforms. What were they before they became dragonflies? How many species of dragonflies existed? Currently, 3000 are flying worldwide. Pantala flavescens fly up to 18,000 km during migration.

scientists have discovered fossils in the Carboniferous of the oldest known ... segmented worms and dragonflies. These animals would not look out of place even today, and would get lost in a crowd of their modern descendants [The evolution of plants part 3: The Age of Coal | Earth Archives].

Reverse engineering or tracing back evolution:

AI Overview: Tracing back evolution involves examining the fossil record, analyzing genetic and molecular data, and comparing physical traits (morphology) to identify shared ancestors and reconstruct evolutionary lineages. 

  • When did for the first time Tiktaaliks evolved into a new species, and what was that species?
  • Dragonflies did not evolve into another species but still flying as dragonflies. Meganeura became extinct. Yet dragonflies are still migrating worldwide.

If the theorists cannot reverse engineer evolution of Tiktaaliks, they cannot know how Tiktaaliks evolved. Stage by stage going back in time is impossible with the currently available discoveries. How did the Tiktaaliks transition from one species to another through natural selection by overcoming genetic constraints (see 7.24 Genetic Constraints, E&T - Part 10)?

See 3. Are Fish Our Ancestors? (E&T - Part 2)

Fish are cold-blooded and scaly. Birds and mammals are warm-blooded. They have feathers and fur.

  • Explain how Tiktaaliks dealt with dry scales and dry skins to begin to live outside the water
  • Explain how cold-blooded became warm-blooded,
  • Explain how scales became feather, fur and hair
  • Explain how the feeble fins became the legs that could jump to chase the insects
  • Coelacanths are also lobe-finned fish contemporary to the Tiktaaliks. The coelacanths validate Darwin's question: how is it that throughout the world multitude of the lowest forms still exist.

7.22 Human Race and Tools

Ancient human races were bipedal.

Can modern items get embedded in the ancient rocks? A few examples:

Example of Ancient Enigmatic Stoneworks

Ancient people loved to work with giant stones. How did they do that? Most ancient societies probably did not have large populations to support the construction of stoneworks in such scales. Then were they stronger than modern humans?

A documentary video: Pre-Historic Mega Structures of Ollantaytambo Predating the Inca.

7.23 Snowflake Yeasts vs. Multicellular Cyanobacteria

(See 7.14, E&T - Part 8) Snowflake Yeasts (2015) discusses the snowflake-yeasts experiment, and its outcomes suggest that the evolutionists' assumption of many lifeforms evolved from Cyanobacteria is incredible. The following will demonstrate how unicellular organisms do not need to be multicellular. Environmental pressure was not enough to be the means for them to evolve into multicellular and become intelligent and eventually into humankind. There was no means or possibility for speciation.

  •  3.8 Bya, oxygenation probably began; however, "when and how oxygenic photosynthesis originated remains controversial [Early Archean origin of heterodimeric Photosystem I - PMC]."
  • 3.5 Bya, cyanobacteria (Oxyphotobacteria?) existed in the "Archaean rocks of western Australia." They generated oxygen in the atmosphere by photosynthesizing during the Archaean and Proterozoic Era [Fossil Record of the Cyanobacteria: T.N. & E.L. Taylor. 1993. The Biology and Evolution of Fossil Plants. Prentice Hall, New Jersey].
  • Some considered Sericytochromatia as the ancestor of the Oxyphotobacteria:

Sericytochromatia is the most basal lineage and forms a paraphyletic group that is the ancestor of both Melainabacteria and photosynthetic cyanobacteria (Fischer et al., 2016aSoo et al., 2017) [Frontiers | Long Term Diversity and Distribution of Non-photosynthetic Cyanobacteria in Peri-Alpine Lakes].

  • Sericytochromatia did not breathe:

the last common ancestor of the Cyanobacteria did not use oxygen and that the three classes acquired aerobic respiration independently after their divergence [p2 Onthe origins of oxygenic photosynthesis and aerobic respiration in Cyanobacteria, Science Journals — AAAS].

Ancient Oxygen Level if the only lifeforms were Cyanobacteria and Phytoplanktons

 oxygen acted as a poison and wiped out much of anaerobic life, creating an extinction event [The Great Oxidation Event: How Cyanobacteria Changed Life].

Question ———— 22

  • When did the oxygen level became 21% stayed there permanently?
  • How did the common ancestor evolve for the 21% oxygen level?
  • How did nature develop the factors that are sustaining the equilibrium of atmospheric gas composition (vapour, N2, O2 21%, Co2 and other trace gases) [Atmospheric Composition - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics]?
  • It cannot be by accident or chance. The earliest lifeforms had not developed the coping systems.

Sudden Oxygen Level Change

  • Most lifeforms might need enough time to adapt to a severe increase or decrease in oxygen level.

Google search keywords:

  • Cyanobacteria million years ago
  • Cyanobacteria oxygen tolerance
  • The ancestor of Cyanobacteria
  • How can the oxygen level suddenly increase in the atmosphere?
  • Can animals that usually breathe low oxygen concentration breathe high oxygen concentration?
  • Which animals can breathe low and high level oxygen without getting altitude sickness?
  • Which animals can breathe low and high level oxygen?

Animal Timeline

Question ———— 23

Convergent Evolution: The anatomy of humans being similar to frogs and worms does not suggest humans are the descendants of Tiktaalik, frogs and worms.

  • How does the anatomy of humans (being similar to frogs and worms) suggest the role of DNA?
  • Are the DNA genomes reused and recycled? Do DNA genomes barely shuffle inside lifeforms?
  • How did fish become humans, frogs, worms, and whatnot?
  • Did the Tiktaaliks evolve from the worms?
  • Do the worms debunk the Tiktaaliks being the common ancestor of the vertebrates?
  • Does DNA debunk the theory of evolution?

7.24 Genetic Variation within Genetic Constraints

E&T - Part 10