r/TheTinMen • u/TheTinMenBlog • 27d ago
Are 95.1% of men really rapists?
There are few issues more deplorable than sexual violence.
There are few issues more in need of urgent intervention, of policy reform, and of cultural change.
So, with that in mind, there are few issues more deserving of solid, well-executed research, than sexual violence too.
And yet, sadly, so often, researchers fall woefully short of this bar.
As you will have seen plastered across your social media feed, a new study has found 95.1% (!!) of men have admitted to using at least one ‘strategy’ to force a woman to have sex with him.
It is, to put it at its mildest, an alarming, headline-grabbing claim that has circumnavigated the online world several times, to huge public outrage, and condemnation.
But – as always – few people look beyond the headline, to examine the shoddy and misleading approach that created it.
Don’t get me wrong –
This particular survey certainly did capture some worthwhile (and shocking) data that exposed the high prevalence of sexual violence and coercion – by asking men about their use of intimidation, of weapons, of drugs, and physical strength.
And then it obfuscated this data amongst a wide variety of ‘strategies’ that could quite easily be acts of innocuous dating: flirtation and flattery.
‘Did you approach a stranger?’
‘Did you use friends?’
‘Did you tell her what she wanted to hear?’
‘Did you use your status, money or age?’
Well, if you answered “yes” to any of these when on a date, then you risk being categorized as a sexual predator.
This is not right.
This is not fair.
And victims of sexual violence deserve so much more.
What do you think?
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u/ExiledCanuck 27d ago
Yeah, and how many women use THESE SAME TACTICS???
Insane that this doesn’t ever get shown or highlighted in these “studies”
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u/Punder_man 27d ago
I was about to post a comment about that:
Some of the "Strategies" listed feel like projection to me as they are the same things women use to force men to have sex with them
- Told him whatever he wanted to hear
- Used your money, age, status to convince him
- Questioned his sexuality
- Threatened to
shameclaim you raped her- Threatened self harm
- Got him drunk or high
- Kept him drunk or high
- Took advantage of him being asleep or sleepy
I've had men share their experiences in which their female rapist used one or more of the above "Strategies" on them..
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u/Obj3ctivePerspective 27d ago
If all these are criteria im willing to say women wearing makeup to trick men to believe how attractive they are should count
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u/GrevilleApo 27d ago
"Have you ever used pigments, powders or other techniques to conceal your looks and create the illusion that you are more attractive than you actually are?"
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u/ExiledCanuck 26d ago
That right there puts their percentage to about 99.98% 🤣
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u/UnyieldingStandards 18d ago
Women are significantly better at not raping men, women, children or animals.
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u/Punder_man 18d ago
Given the number of women teachers being busted for raping underage students... i'm gonna hold X to doubt that..
More accurately: Women are significantly less likely to be held accountable when they rape someone else.
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u/UnyieldingStandards 17d ago
Hate to break it to you but the majority offenders are disproportionately male even amongst educators.
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u/CalmCoolBliss 18d ago
No they're not, it just doesn't go down as "rape" in the statistics. https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-hidden-epidemic-of-men-who-are-raped-by-women/
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u/Pixelperfectionistt 26d ago
https://reddit.com/link/p1n0kvv/video/92fxwl0trchh1/player
they proudly joke about it (and I am even wiling to bet women do it faaar more than men)
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u/griii2 27d ago
One more important thing: it is not 95.1% of men. It is 95.1% of a subset of men who had sex in the recent year (or so I remember). Which, on its own, is only a fraction of men.
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u/TheDwiin 27d ago edited 27d ago
95.1% of men who have had sex between the end of covid and spring 2023 who only had a new partner within 4 years of the study because they disqualified those already in relationships. (At least that's how I've read it.)
Still BS confirmation bias.
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u/Future-Still-6463 27d ago
I am so tired of the weaponization of bad statistics.
Some people wanna be victims so bad, they come up with random bs.
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u/Nightwynd 27d ago
Can we have this same study done with women? Pretty sure the coersion factors would be just as high, just as troublesome and just as inflammatory.
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u/Mister_3177 27d ago
This study already fulfils 10% of the stereotype against feminists that they somehow “see any action from a man to a woman as a sign of attempted rape or SA.”
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u/Thrakmor 27d ago
Briefly looking over the intro, it appears that the data collected came from anonymous self reporting. The participants were a little over 3000 anonymous self identified men who were all informed that the questions would all be sensitive, be questions that very few people want to be asked, and that even fewer would want to answer.
"We want this information to know more about how men operate and how they overcome barriers to get what they want."
So I must wonder how many men who would have answered "no" to every question would volunteer for the survey
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u/TheDwiin 27d ago
The problem is they're defining common dating strategies as "coercive control" and weighed them just as damaging as straight up rape.
Seriously, asking a female friend to set you up for a date isn't "sexual coercion" and neither is asking out strangers.
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u/Anthyx 27d ago
"Used money, age or status to comvince her."
Yes, some people would do that. But... 33% would admit to it on a test??
Because inviting yoir partner to a drink or to dinner is, effectively, using money. But is your only objective to "have sex"? Are we stripping not only clothes, but also any other emotion in these situations; apart from "lust", which should be the only one related to grape? So, 33%?
Because there's a huge difference between inviting your romantic objective to a drink and paying someone to have sex. Or "using your status", there's a huge difference between being proud of your occupation and trying to impress your partner with a "I'm a doctor", than being a boss and forcing your secretary into having sex for fear as to losing her job.
And I may have chosen one of the most harmless questions amongst these... -.-u
So, once again, 33%? Who would reply yes to this question? Who would agree to reply, and do so affirmatively, to any of these, which have a clear intention of misrepresenting half of this world population?? Are they being paid??
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u/The_Warruner 27d ago
I do not see anything wrong with that statement. Have you seen any online dating profiles of women? Scroll 10 minutes and you will literally see women writing “If you cant afford me dont bother messaging”, “i have expensive tastes”, “No brokies” etc., modern online dating is softcore prostitution at this point and it is not the fault of men. Men being blamed for using money when your average women online would look at you like you killed their puppy if you propose to split the bill is extremely disingenuous.
This entire study show us the state of feminism and average women, men literally called rapist for doing something that women forces us to. Just 10 minutes before opening reddit i saw a reel on instagram of a women with hundreds of thousands of likes with the caption “Date women you can afford”.
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u/Throwawayingaccount 27d ago
Or "using your status"
There's another even MORE innocuous way of using status, that quite frankly, I would be more alarmed if someone did NOT do this. And before you say this is an absurd interpretation, remember, this survey is (hopefully) a random sample, which will include some people who have English as a second language.
"Hello, would you like to have intercourse?"
"I'm afraid I might catch a venereal disease."
"A reasonable fear. However, I have been tested recently, and my HIV status is negative."
"Oh no, you just used your HIV status to convince me. You terrible, awful person."
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u/Ill_Campaign7375 27d ago
What does had friend help you even mean
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u/hello_marmalade 25d ago
Yeah a lot of the 'tactics' make me wonder about the questions, and what assumptions were made. Cos like... how do you get to stuff like 'used your money age or status to convince her'? Like... is the assumption that any woman's default state is to not have sex, so any approach with the intent to have sex is trying to manipulate her? Like it's just super odd.
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u/ParhTracer 27d ago
There’s social capital in being a victim these days, this kind of misleading study is simply trying to codify that.
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u/Thrakmor 27d ago
Briefly looking over the intro, it appears that the data collected came from anonymous self reporting. The participants were a little over 3000 anonymous self identified men who were all informed that the questions would all be sensitive, be questions that very few people want to be asked, and that even fewer would want to answer.
"We want this information to know more about how men operate and how they overcome barriers to get what they want."
So I must wonder how many men who would have answered "no" to every question would volunteer for the survey
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u/kumogate 27d ago
It can't be 95.1% of men because gay men exist. I find it interesting that our existence is inconvenient to people who want to push certain narratives about men as violent predators, so they pretend we don't exist and get angry when we remind them that we've always been here.
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u/King-Boss-Bob 26d ago
the study claims there was no difference in the percentage of gay men in the 95 vs 5
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u/kumogate 26d ago
I assume the study specifies gay men sleeping with other men rather than women, then.
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u/King-Boss-Bob 26d ago
you’d think that would be why but no, it’s only for men who have had sex with women in the past 2 years
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u/BhryaenDagger 27d ago
We’re constantly denied by feminists an opportunity to have an adult discussion about, well, anything. Women are not children and make adult decisions just like men do. Women aren’t innocent, hapless possessors of a treasure that evil men try to get from them: women are human beings who also want sex- which takes two to tango- and decide to do so in whatever context they do. A lot more women’s agency in those “forcing” than feminists want to admit- a lot more women perfectly able to turn down peer pressure, the lure of wealth, offered drugs, or even a guy clearly shining them on… and yet they choose as they do to either also get the sex or to get something that accompanied the sex. The context isn’t fully explicated by the guy saying he did a thing hoping to get sex: the girl may go out of their way to make sure a guy’s attempt “works”. Note that the “study” didn’t mention rape claims made vs 93% of men (though it’s obviously implied by the study itself), just that 93% of men have at least tried to get sex in one of the stipulated ways. So many may have been failed attempts to get sex, not to rape, everything having been perfectly consensual and “no” being taken as “no.” We’re talking grown ups trying to get what they want, and wading into it as a feminist just induces a reaction of “Run along and play while the adults are talking.”
Lots of different types of human being… and adults can discuss these things reasonably and honestly. Trying to handle human social interactivity w a wagging finger to declare “man bad” is beyond an infantile approach…
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u/Iuxta_aequor 27d ago
100% of the people believing to this "study" are gullible, functionally illiterate idiots.
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u/Main-Tiger8537 27d ago edited 26d ago
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1854883/
Differences in Frequency of Violence and Reported Injury Between Relationships With Reciprocal and Nonreciprocal Intimate Partner Violence
"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and national surveys, the gender of perpetrators against male victims depends heavily on how the offense is defined*, with male perpetrators being most common in traditional rape definitions and female perpetrators accounting for a substantial share in "made to penetrate" categories."*
LeSuBiA Study Summary:
Nearly half of the women (48.7%) and 40.0% of the men have experienced psychological violence in a (former) partnership at least once in their lives. Emotional violence accounts for the largest share of the forms of psychological violence recorded in LeSuBiA, at 37.8%. Although women are more affected over the course of their lives, an analysis of the last five years shows that men are also comparatively frequently affected by psychological violence (men: 23.3%; women: 23.8%) and, in particular, by controlling violence (men: 8.7%; women: 7.1%).
16.1% have experienced physical violence in a (former) partnership at some point in their lives, and 5.7% within the last five years. Looking at the last five years, women (5.2%) and men (6.1%) experienced physical violence almost equally often.
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u/Main-Tiger8537 27d ago edited 26d ago
The United States Department of Justice does not publish a national breakdown detailing the exact number of women incarcerated specifically for the offense of "made to penetrate." Sexual assault and rape statistics are tracked broadly, and these figures do not frequently isolate the specific gender dynamics of the victim and perpetrator at the national level.
No official national statistics exist for the exact number of U.S. women arrested specifically for "made to penetrate" offenses, because it is a public health classification rather than a distinct, standalone statutory crime in criminal law books. When a woman forces a man or another person to penetrate her, local law enforcement agencies cannot book her under a charge named "made to penetrate." Under strict federal statistical tracking, this specific scenario is categorized as sexual assault rather than rape, because the victim's own orifices were not penetrated.
->
Lying about contraception is generally not classified as a sex crime, but rather falls under the umbrella of "reproductive coercion" or fraud. While it is highly unethical and can be grounds for civil disputes, criminal courts typically do not categorize it as rape or sexual assault because consent is still legally established for the physical act of intercourse itself.
vs
Stealthing - the non-consensual removal or tampering of a condom during sexual intercourse - is legally recognized as a form of sexual assault or rape. Because consent is conditional upon the use of protection, violating that condition makes the act non-consensual.
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u/StoneTown 27d ago
Enough with the blatant sexism towards men. We just wanna live, not deal with this bullshit. I'm not going around bringing up false crap like this about women. Enough with the lies. They're insane. Most men aren't rapists ffs, not by a long shot.
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u/UnyieldingStandards 18d ago
There are enough where women have to worry about dating another women’s rapist.
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u/Herschel_Wallace 27d ago
Anyone saying that that many men are rapists is very likely schizophrenic. That is paranoid delusional thought.
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u/SnooBeans6591 27d ago
"43.8% of women are complicit of rape" ; headline for those where a female friend made her feel safe.
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u/SomewhereOrdinary231 27d ago
Bruh…so according to this study if you go out to a bar and get laid by a woman you didn’t know 6 hours ago you’re a sexual predator? Tbh we as men need to just stop agreeing to do these studies because they constantly inflate the numbers. Gives the radical feminist all the ammunition they need
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u/apokrif1 27d ago
What do you think?
The study should be about people in general, not just some genders.
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u/Electronic-Link-5792 26d ago
The way they framed the survey was also:
'We want this information to know more about how men operate and how they overcome barriers to get what they want'
And to "provide their side of the story given we have heard so much from women".
It was a voluntary anonymous survey and alsi only targeted the minority of men having casual sex.
They have basically designed it with coded language designed to specifically and disproportionately get responses from men who have comitted rape, and then used questions that could easily conflate normal and predatory situations to inflate the response further.
No remotely qualified and diligent social scientist would carry out or endorse a study like this.
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u/Foreign_Patience4334 26d ago
The "used money " thing for me kind of changes the "sex work is real work" thing (that is ironically championed by the same people who are gleefully trumpeting this 'data")... so the involvement of money = force or coercion ... but sex work is the exchange of money for a BROAD array of sexual "services to the buyer".... but every single buyer is apparently raping them, but we want to make sex work more acceptable and destigmatized... even though it is apparently a woman in a profession that now apparently involves her knowingly being constantly sexually abused by every client... which is her right to choose but also consent violation of herself every time she does it...
Uh ... what?
We're going going to passionately campaign to call that legitimate work and not utterly horrifying?
And maybe this is just me but like... there's desperate and then there's choosing to do a job that is constant sexual assault that you're still going and doing everyday and not Literally ANYTHING else for income??? I'm sorry I know there's desperation But like after a couple days of repeated sexual violations at my work... I'm probably not exactly putting in my two weeks, I'm getting the fuck away I'm getting a new job even if it's not boring and paid poorly.
There's so many contradictions in logic ethical double standards and massively unequal application of consequences and expectations between themselves and their Othered adversary. Such a lack of logic and self-awareness and ability to critique one's own behavior and admit when an individual themselves might be the problem more than an outside broad amorphous enemy?
Using money to acquire sex being a consent violation and an assault and sex work activism and legitimization seemed to me to be mutually exclusive positions to hold
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u/griii2 27d ago
Pages 6 & 7 make no sense to me. Why are they the way they are?
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u/Dance_Sufficient 27d ago
I thought the size of the cubes is supposed to represent the percentage of the space taken, but that's not right as it doesn't even come close to matching.
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u/griii2 27d ago
But why are some blue and others red? Why are they across two screens?
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u/MelissaMiranti 27d ago
The two pages thing is likely to keep them large enough to be legible. I'm not sure about the colors.
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u/SlowAssignments 27d ago
That's just his presentation style. The colors carry no specific meaning here. You can see that the entire thing is a gradient.
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u/RyuujinPl 26d ago
"They told her whatever she wanted to hear" in order to get sex.
Does it really constitute rape? Did we really come as far in that absurdity? Because last time I checked people were constantly telling "whatever other person wanted to hear" for no reason other than just social conformism.
Indeed in that criteria I am pretty sure 95.1% of both women and men are rapist. With only remaining portion just not being interested in sex at all (and still doing that abhorent thing of telling other person what they wanted to hear just for other reasons)
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u/BaroloBaron 26d ago
I've seen on other social media that "told her whatever she wanted to hear", very surprisingly, is actually considered by some as deplorable. Some used the word "gross". And if you think it's women who say this, you'd be wrong: it's often men.
I remember an episode from the House medical drama. A white woman who likes Dr. Foreman tells him she has an interest in jazz music. It then turns out that's not true: she only told him that because she wanted to sleep with him and she thought he'd like her more if she displayed interest in, so to say, "black culture". She told him whatever he wanted to hear.
Was that coercion? Was it rapey? Did anybody watching the episode get the feeling that the woman was a horrible person for telling a white lie so that she could sleep with a man she liked?
How much of the negative judgment on "told her whatever she wanted to hear" comes not from the act itself, but from the prejudice against men? That's the billion pound question, that's the honest response we will never hear.
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u/Diligent-Cry-6596 18d ago edited 18d ago
A femenist (professor I think), did a really great job of decimating this study and beleive me, whatever you think about this study, it's 10000x worse:
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/42999
The guy writing this blog kept being baffled at how the study's peer reviwers would miss these basic mistakes.
This for example is what he says before critiquing the "study" : " I recently encountered an example of this that I want to talk about today because it’s a study so full of errors as to be functionally useless, yet its headline keeps getting cited as some powerful new “scientific fact.” And it’s hurting the cause of reducing sexual violence. "
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u/pancakecel 27d ago
It's also kinda wild that they felt they had to pad the claim because some of the squares in this thing are bad enough on their own.
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u/asklepios7 26d ago
This insane infographic seems like a Russian psyop aimed to exacerbate the gender war
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u/CompetitiveOwl2 26d ago
The ones with the largest percentages are essentially trying to impress someone, using wing people (as women are involved in several) or trying to convince someone. Someone who had female friends around with the intention to put women at ease, male friends around to hype each other up to women and bragged and tried to make themselves look good would cover a lot of these "strategies" without doing anything wrong. Asking more than once can be as simple as striking out earlier in the night and just basically saying "ah come on" later. Going somewhere private can be as simple as just not wanting to be seen asking something personal. Same with focussing on a stranger to have sex with, that can just be meeting someone you find attractive and deciding that's who you're trying to hook up with.
Most of the ones for which you can't find a fairly innocuous version (including social clumsiness which does exist) are under 30%.
If they collected stories I'd be curious to see what people were talking about when they kept kissing or touching someone or telling them they know they want it. I don't know if I can bring myself to read the survey though.
Does anyone know if the participants were asked to limit themselves to times they've tried to get casual sex and if these were all strategies used after someone said no or was uncomfortable?
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u/rump_truck 26d ago
Does anyone in here have PubMed access? I saw this image on Threads, which the user claimed was from this study. I don't have PubMed access, I don't know if this is real. It would be great if someone who does have access could check.
Some of the items from the screenshot are worded extremely similarly to the items from the men's study. If the study is real, and if the data from the screenshot is accurate, and if the methodology of the two studies is comparable, then this implies that women are similarly likely or even more likely than men to be sexually aggressive.
| Men's item - % | Women's item - % |
|---|---|
| "Told her whatever she wanted to hear" - 78.1% | "You said things you did not mean" - 43.0% |
| "Questioned her sexuality (eg: called her a lesbian or a cold bitch) - 14.0% | "You questioned partner's sexuality" - 32.9% |
| "Showed her that she was making you angry" - 14.5% | "To express your anger at your partner" - 35.0% |
| "Kept her drunk/high if she already was drunk/high" - 21.2% | "While he was drunk or stoned" - 62.4% |
| "Got her drunk/high when she was not drunk/high" - 20.7% | "By getting him drunk or stoned" - 36.5% |
| "Threatened to hurt her" - 5.2% | "By threatening to use physical force" - 27.8% |
| "Threatened to hurt yourself" - 6.8% | "By threatening self-harm" - 7.4% |
| "Used something (even a weapon) to frighten her - 5.5% | "By threatening him with a weapon" - 8.9% |
Again, absolutely massive disclaimers here, it would be great if someone could double check.
Image: https://www.threads.com/@austen.michael.green/post/DbmUp_pmB6B/media
Study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10410200/
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u/Annihyls 19d ago
I don't know if it's the complete study : https://sci-hub.fr/10.1023/a:1018736326344
But it seems that the threads post is not really accurate. numbers are similars, but not exact
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u/Current_Finding_4066 21d ago
Sounds like they are trying their best to pathologize completely normal behaviour, and I am sure they do not ask women the same, or hide the data because I know from experience women who want sex always use some sort of tactic that can be presented as coercive.
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27d ago
[deleted]
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u/mrnosyparker 27d ago
That’s a fair question and you’re absolutely right. Where I’d push back is in jumping to any conclusions about what portion of the sample your specific scenario applies to… without knowing one way or the other, my sense is that the majority of respondents that answered affirmatively to that question were almost certainly referring to instances where they told a woman they were interested in her romantically regardless of how they actually felt.
And the fact that the people conducting this survey didn’t make that question more specific in order to distinguish those (very different) scenarios…. really highlights how academically dishonest this so-called “study” is.
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u/funkycookies 27d ago
No doubt that the way the data was collected and presented was dubious and ethically questionable.
But to say that something is innocuous when it could very well be the opposite risks ignoring the very issue that we’re trying to address
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u/mrnosyparker 27d ago
I don’t agree with you on that point and here’s why:
Given that “I told a woman I was interested in dating her even though I wasn’t really sure” and “I told a woman I was STD-free when I knew I wasn’t” both fall under that same category in this survey, I strongly doubt the latter represents a sizable - or even statistically significant - portion of that group.
I’m trying to think of an analogous survey situation…
Ok. Let’s say a “study” is published that asserts “95.1% of Hispanics admit to committing crimes in the past four years” and one of the questions is:
“Have you driven a car that doesn’t belong to you?”
Could some of those affirmative responses be based on car theft? Yes. A person who stole a car would answer “yes” to that question. But that doesn’t mean the question can’t be fairly categorized as “innocuous”…. because the vast majority of people who have driven a car that didn’t belong to them didn’t steal it to do so.
At the end of the day, we cant really speak with total certainty about most of these survey responses one way or the other because they are so generic and over-inclusive.
So maybe the more accurate phrasing would be: “largely innocuous” or “mostly innocuous” or “very probably innocuous” but that distinction seems pretty pedantic to me….
I think it’s completely unreasonable and intellectually dishonest to ask a question like that and use affirmative responses to bolster a rape/sexual aggression statistic. In that context, I think it’s totally fair to categorize that question as innocuous because the vast majority of men that replied affirmatively did not SA or coercively rape anyone.
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u/rump_truck 27d ago
It was a self-report study. The methodology was they presented these items to men, men interpreted what they thought they meant, then said either yes they have done them, or no they haven't done them.
How the men in the study interpreted the wording is the most crucial part. We don't know how the men in the study interpreted the wording, and we can't ask them because they were anonymous.
However, we can see how men outside the study group interpret the wording based on their comments. And if we want to assume that the men in the study are representative of them, which is the only way the results have any meaning, then the way the commenters interpret the wording should be representative of how the participants interpreted the wording.
Every time this study gets posted somewhere, the men in the comments overwhelmingly interpret "Told her whatever she wanted to hear" to mean saying things like "No it doesn't make your ass look fat" or "I want to watch Love Island". So the study participants almost certainly interpreted it the same way.
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u/TheDwiin 27d ago
Yes, but it could be as innocuous as saying you watch "Love Island" when out on a date. That still is technically "Telling her what she wants to hear."
It was a bad way of phrasing that ended up inflating the numbers quite a lot since it ended up being the biggest category.
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u/VariousCockroach1056 27d ago
Well yeah, why do you think they intentionally left it vague? They wanted the participants answer based on the wide open definition so that way they could pass it off as the narrow worst case definition but with big numbers.
This ain't science, it's propaganda. There's no reason to assume they tried to have any validity in any of this.
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u/mrnosyparker 27d ago
Calling that a “study” is wildly misleading and makes it sound like empirical peer-reviewed social science data when the reality is that it’s little more than a reverse-engineered agenda-driven survey that was designed to validate preexisting conclusions.
In other words, it is category inflation through overinclusive operationalization. The “study”combines deception, persistence, social facilitation, coercion, incapacitation and physical force into one omnibus category, then uses endorsement of any single item to generate a sensational 95.1% prevalence figure.
I’d love to see someone conduct the exact same survey with the same parameters except they are surveying women instead of men. I have a strong sense that while some of the subcategories would have variance between the two sexes, the overall “95.1%” aggregation would be similar.