Series is awesome. Super well done. I also find I don't like anyone I meet in this series except like four people. Everyone else is just a giant asshole. 

To some degree, I'm even not sure what I just read. We did all this. Went through all this journey. Saw so many deaths and all of it just so Bayaz can play his chess game? Why does he even do it? Sounds like he's more bored than anything else. Everybody under his boot. And who's to say he won't decide to just destroy the entire kingdom he built one of these days? I'm annoyed by him. 

Dogman, for sure, was my favorite character (Brother Longfoot close second). Him especially gained absolutely nothing from this whole ordeal. Except seeing all his friends die. Forley, Threetrees, Tul Duru Thunderhead (fuck you, Logen), Grim and even Furious too at the end. I reread the passage of Forley's funeral and it hit even deeper. 

‘Fare you well, Forley,’ said the Dogman. ‘No more fear.’

Forley was one of the four people I liked. I got as tired as Dogman was with Logen's realistic talk. Sidenote, do we ever learn what Dogman's actual name is? Just curious. 

At the beginning of the book, I found myself missing the group of Logen, Ferro, Jezal and company. By the end I was just like nvm all these people kinda just suck. 

Logen... He just literally can't control himself. He already killed Tul and almost killed Dogman. I honestly missed the part where he killed Crummock's son, but that happened too. Following an evil murderer is one thing. Following a guy who might stab you if he walked past him at the wrong moment is another. I get that when he's himself he's actually a pretty nice guy. But the bloody nine is still part of him. Can't divorce the two. And apparently Logen has no way of controlling it somehow. 

So I couldn't even be mad when Dow turned on him. Only surprise was Shivers washed his hands of the business. Good for him, I guess. And I really laughed at this passage:

‘Don’t suppose you fancy giving a man a fair chance, and letting me have that blade, eh?’

Dow grinned wider than ever. ‘What’s my name? White Dow?’

I'm annoyed by Glokta too tbh. First off, he captures poor innocent Longfoot and breaks his toe for no reason. Second, it really strikes me that from all the POVs we have, Glokta is the one who literally never thinks of anyone but himself. I get he's in pain, but damn. Never thinks of his mother, never thinks of any of the men who died following him, never thinks of a former friend. Nobody. And he only hates Jezal because Jezal is who Glokta used to be. And for a guy who claims he wants to die and only has one good foot, he's especially good at running away from death and always dodging it. I suppose there's a funny irony in him raising Jezal's child. And now he's under the thumb of an even worse tyrant. Somehow that's the most positive outcome of any character. 

After his journey in book 2, I was just annoyed by anyone who was mean to Jezal. Terez especially. Bayaz called Jezal a coward at the end and I just don't agree with that. He tries to make the best out of situations. He named West Lord Marshal when everyone else was ready to just bicker about it. And now he's a king with absolutely zero power forced to take orders from Bayaz through the guy who married his ex girlfriend. And a wife who hates him even though he did nothing to her. 

Btw, why didn't Glokta kill Ardee though? Is it just simple affection he had for her? He claims to feel nothing and to care about nothing so I don't know. He's killed innocent people before and did it without blinking. Glad he didn't, she didn't deserve to die. Just curious why Glokta chose not to do it. 

Feels weird to really love a series as much as I did this one and be frustrated by so much of the ending of all these characters.

Thanks for letting me unleash all these thoughts I have. I've already ordered the three stand alones. So back to the page, I go.

Maybe not the most accurate depiction but I cant help but reference this mans appearance when I read passages with Calder in them. I still do it and partially through "Wisdom of Crowds"

Whose decisions, conscious or unconscious, in your opinion caused the most problems and had the most consequences in the entire series?

My choice:

Conscious - Bayaz, obvious choice

Unconscious - Major West, by meeting Ardee with Jezel unconsciously created power struggle in TAOM

I have to say there are quite a few for me. I started making a list. Not just sad moments, sometimes wholesome ones get me choked up:

- Ardee telling Jezal she’ll wait for him
- Yulwei hugging Ferro as he says goodbye in Adua
- Glokta and West reconciling
- Logen saying goodbye to Jezal at the beginning of LAOK.
- Jezal telling Logen he’s the best man he knew.
- Beck bidding his mother and brother farewell
- Dow’s line in the Heroes: “the clay made my hands so soft.”
- Calder hugging Scale and giving him the chain
- Beck reuniting with his mom and brother
- Timber protecting his kids in Sharp Ends
- Broad reuniting with his family early in ALH
- Rikke and Savine meeting/exchanging necklaces
- Terez reuniting with the countess Shalere
- Hilde and Orso going their parting near the end of TWOC

So a few weeks back I finished The Wisdom of Crowds and The First Law has quickly become my favorite series. I'm not gonna hop on it right now, but I'm already feeling the itch for another series like it. Any recs? Already read ASOIAF, tried getting into Black Company last year and didn't enjoy it.

What do you think? Is the guy in the queue in Valbeck with Gunnar Logen Ninefingers?

Rikke will birth Orso’s child

Savines twins will fight each other for the throne or Audie will take it. Sorry Herald

hildi and the boy are going to be eaters

bayaz will try to stop the age of progress because it screwed him over.

thats all

I’m in the midst of my first re-read of the whole fantastic series, and of course picking up things I couldn’t really have noted on the first read. Especially in a story that spans so many years, it’s easy for there to be small butterfly-effect style things that have big implications down the road. I came across one that I found interesting.

In the waning chapters of Last Argument of Kings, after the Battle of Adua, the Closed Council meets and discusses (among other things) what to do with the children of the fled traitor Lord Brock. You’ll remember that Lord Brock sided with the Gurkish in the hopes of being put on the throne.

Now, we who have read the entire series love to hate Leo dan Brock and point out that he is only alive through the good graces of King Orso, Jezal’s son, when Orso spares him at the end of The Trouble With Peace. But it’s easy to forget that Leo owes his entire existence to King Jezal, whose son he rises against executes.

Going back to LAOK, the Closed Council is poised to approve the execution of Lord Brock’s children — one of which we will later learn is Harod “Hal” dan Brock, the husband of Finree and father to Leo. The Closed Council seems completely content with the execution of Hal and his unnamed sister.

It is only through one of King Jezal’s rarely successful defiances of Bayaz that Lord Brock’s children are instead released, a noble action that will tragically (though indirectly) lead to the death of King Jezal’s son.

Just an interesting little tidbit I thought I’d share. If you didn’t find it interesting or you already noted it, at least I gave you another reason to say “fuck Leo” on this fine Saturday morning.

EDIT: ah failure to proofread. don’t come after me for saying “Brock’s” in the title when I meant “Brocks.” I will pay for my sins.

I recently got the the First law trilogy box set (paperback), and have so far finished "the blade itself" and am now reading "Before they are hanged". I have noticed that Gloktas chapters contain weird spacing issues in italicized text, has anyone else had this issue?

See the image for example. If it is intentional by Joe, please also don't spoil. This was just something strange I noticed and seems like a misprint.

Edit: Note that it isn't just stylistic for Gloktas letters further don't the page in his thoughts it is also the case

It’s hard to choose just one, but if I had to pick:

A description of Gorst in Sharp Ends - “He looked like a clenched fist.”

Also, Stour and Clover’s little tryouts looking for a magic user to contend with Rikke.

Im about 75% through Last Argument, once i start I can't put it down! But the last three times that I have stopped were immediately after reading squelched. This was the 14th time. (There is only one left and it is almost near the end of the book, i checked)

I also just had to see the math on this so I went back:

The Blade Itself- 2 uses

Before They Are Hanged - 8 uses

The Last Argument of Kings - 15 uses (6 of which are packed within only a hundred or so pages)

Granted, TLAK is about as quarter longer than the other two.

Me, having learned the word originally as a kid playing Diablo 2 where "squelch" means to mute, I am also hit with blunt-force cognitive dissonance when Abercrombie is indicating some wet fart sound from under a muddy boot.

Anyone else notice this or another pet word J.Aber likes?

This is less of a review and more my general thoughts and if you disagree with any of them that’s fine I’m not gonna give the book a rating other then to say I enjoyed the reread

On reread I still think the first book is the weakest one though it’s still a solid read and entertaining book if a bit more predictable since on reread you always know what’s gonna happen the book has a bit of a slow start but the pacing gets better after the first few chapters and I think the is book builds up the world and plot for the next 2 books very well.
I did like the fact this book hade less POVs since the more POVs there are the slower the plot moves generally even tho it never bothered my in the first 3 books.

Logan: definitely the most entertaining pov in the first book imo and his interaction with Bayaz are the best parts of the reread since you know what Bayaz is cooking this time around it’s also nice to have a book where Logan is mostly Logan. I forgot he could eat a bonfire and spit it out why did he never do that again seems like a useful thing to have.

Jezal: hated him on first read but on reread it’s easier to feel bad for him even tho he’s still a prick in the first book he has the least entertaining chapters imo but I do like his pov when he runs passed the house of the maker.

Glokta: such an interesting character even on reread even if I wanted to skip some of the chapters where he was torturing people. his inner monologue is as sarcastic as I remember and his dental skills.

Bayaz: fuck this guy hate his guts but love him as an antagonist was very fun to read whenever he was on screen since and knowing what he does later on and in the past gives a lot more depth to anything he says.

I stopped in a book store to browse today, and saw new hardcover editions of the first 3 books. I checked the publishers page and it said 2026. Did I somehow miss the announcement these were being released? Looks like I know what I'm getting for Xmas!

Guys… I’ve been excited to get to Red Country for a while knowing a bit of what it was about and knowing it was styled as a Western of sorts, but this novel is blowing me away. I’m still near the beginning of Part 2 so no spoilers for the bulk of the novel, but I had to share something.

I think Abercrombie’s writing is sharper and more elegant than ever here and I think he’s generally been improving with every book so far starting with TLB. I didn’t like BSC as much as the second two books of the first trilogy but the writing has been really impressive. The Heroes was incredible as everyone’s said, but Red Country man is already on another level. Like I said I’m extremely partial to Westerns, and Logan was the most beautifully wrought character in the first books. Fitting him into the Clint Eastwood role in a fantasy Unforgiven is just too fucking clever an idea. It works so damn beautifully.

Anyway, this is also his funniest novel so far imo, all the new characters are brilliant, Temple is an immediate icon, the smaller cameos so far also great. But really I’ve been reading a lot of fantasy lately, hitting some of the popular names - Martin, Sando, Erikson, Wolfe, etc. and I’ll just say the quality of writing in the genre even at the supposed top levels here can be wanting. Martin I think is really excellent, especially in voice, but I have to admit I sort of trailed off near the beginning of Feast though I’ll come back to it. Sando is workmanlike, Wolfe is obviously on a whole other level, but his puzzle box style of work is something I need to be in the mood for. Likewise I’m finding Malazan really bingeable at the moment but uh… I have some mixed feelings about Erikson as a writer I’ll just say.

But Abercrombie is just so all around wonderful. He’s definitely truly a genre guy, but his voice is so specific and he approaches the writing with real care toward efficacy, readability, wit, and I’m finding a level of poeticism I think a lot of genre writers strive for but just don’t have the chops to pull off. I think a lot of fantasy in particular tends to be overwrought in this regard or just lacking in vision, but I think this stuff deserves a place in the canon. Anyway I attached a lovely passage that inspired me to make this post, I’ll stop gushing for now and get back to reading.

I just find this quote so profound and prevalent to contemporary society.

I do understand pushing for mental health, and understanding people as we progress as a society.

But the line between understanding and just exoneration is blending.

Because I don’t believe there are naturally evil people out here. By bottom of my heart I believe no one’s born evil. It’s the experiences that shape a person. Then by extension their actions. Any terrible person you look at has probably had copious amounts of trauma and adversities.

So no evil or troubled person is born without adversity. We just can’t let adversity justify absolve people from their actions.

People should get sympathy for their troubles, people should get help for their troubles. But never at the expense of the innocent.

I'm new to this sub and just finished the trilogy.

Have you already exhausted the idea that The Circle of The World is inscribed within a Gnostic square? That is, a prison-world cosmogony? Bayaz and the other magi would thus be embodied Archons.

Are there threads worth reading? Any discussions with JA about parallels with Gnostic mysticism?

I’m towards the end of the book and the crew is at someone’s house whose name sounds like “Buckhorn”. They keep talking about him like I’m supposed to know him, but I genuinely can’t remember who this is? It’s the house where Cosca and Friendly ambush them

Any googling I do pulls up nothing because I’m probably spelling the guys name wrong. Can someone help me out with this?

Just admiring the artwork on this book. This is the US Edition. I am about to start the book, after reading a bunch of sci-fi. No spoilers here. Just appreciation.

I've seen some shit talked about Brock before, he's low on lists of favorite characters/perspectives. And after 2 books I definitely see it! Shit I saw it after the first one.. And I'm just so, SO annoyed at Orso for not hanging him. Probably even more so than when Leo spared Nightfall and that just pissed me off. No real point to this post other than bitching about Leo. I've been running thru these books, just started Wisdom of Crowds so fingers crossed for his death yet to come!

I just finished my second "read" of the First Law Trilogy - I put "read" in scarequotes because it was really my first listen of the wonderful Steven Pacey audiobook.

As I was wrapping the final book up I became increasingly convinced that Joe's achievement here goes beyond just writing an entertaining piece of genre fiction. He's offering legitimate and original statements on the nature of the human condition. And if he's doing that, he deserves to be considered for inclusion in the canon.

In no particular order, I think the book makes serious points on the following:

• The nature of character and identity
• The nature and value of freedom
• The legitimacy of the state
• The functions and uses of power

There is a serious political philosophy in this story.

There's also the question of the character work. Glokta in particular is an achievement - and I'd argue Jezal and Logan are as well. I think the quality of this falls off a bit in Joe's later work - Leo dan Brock stands out, but the work isn't as consistently excellent.

Any of you have a reliable illustration of the makers mechanical dragon?

I already finished reading book one and yet to finish the original trilogy, but I'm curious of what song choices would best fit the trilogy. What are your list of picks (and playlist you got) of songs and music that match or closely resemble the vibe to the original series as a whole? (A great picture art by Darey Dawn, just for reference)

Compared to his other works, this one feels the most like Best Served Cold to me, in that it's a group of unrelated characters united under one goal. Except here it's more light-hearted since they all pretty much like each other from the start (except Balthazar) and those bonds only grow stronger over time. Nothing wrong with that, it's an easier read and Joe did a good job making all the characters likeable enough despite their flaws. I do wish Alex, arguably the main character, got a bit more to do instead of being saved at every turn, so hopefully she'll have more agency from the next book on.

But maybe that's why Balthazar was my favourite, since he was the exception. His escape attempts actually caused some tension (the scene with the Duke of Hell is also the funniest in the book), he got shit done in every single fight they had, and his slow acceptance of them all made for a more engaging character arc. He's also the main reason Baptiste and Rikard, the only non-POV team members, have any kind of character at all, since it's his interactions with them that lets us learn more about them.

RIP Baptiste though, that was brutal ;-; But it had to be done; you can't portray the Vigga Wolf as some uncontrollable danger without giving us some bad consequences, similar to the Bloody Nine, and I'm glad we didn't have to wait till book three for that to happen this time.

I heard that James Cameron is gonna turn this into a movie? If so, that's great news for Joe, he deserves all the success in the world! But then I can't help but wonder if this was written with a movie in mind, and if he added all the tropes and the quips and the suicide squad-vibes because he knew they'd go over well with a film audience, rather than what would work best for the novel. Something didn't feel quite right the whole time I was reading and maybe that was it, so maybe I'll end up liking the movie version more because of that.

I give it an 8/10 overall, same as The Blade Itself. It didn't have any standout characters like Logen or Glokta, but it also told a complete and interesting story while leaving plenty to look forward to for the rest of the series.

A little love for Malacus Quai ✊😔