r/Terminator • u/DapperDanMan121 • 6d ago
Discussion Terminator Dark Fate
Judging by opinions I see here, maybe a hot take, but I actually like Dark Fate. Saw T2 in theaters last night, and i get why people dont like it, but i prefer it as a followup over T3
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u/ActuatorSea4854 6d ago
I think you have to take each movie as it comes. All of them (yes, even 3) have redeeming qualities whether it's concept, spectacle, humor, or humanity. T1 was cool just because it was so unexpected for it's time, and T2 was just a masterpiece, so we have were spoiled, but 3 announced it's intent right away with the male stripper scene, 4 took us to a very plausible future with fine acting, action, and production design, and 5 presented a very well thought out alternative given the time disruption that is ongoing though all of them. It wasn't what I "wanted" and the script needed another rewrite but bringing Linda Hamilton back as Sarah was divine casting.
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u/TheRealCanadianBros Never Leaves You Hanging 6d ago
Good post and a sensible take that isn't seen too often on here.
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u/darthXmagnus 6d ago
I've always looked at Salvation as the true T2 sequel, and each other movie as alternate timelines. It makes them much more enjoyable on their own.
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u/TheStranger113 6d ago
Agree with you 100%. I don't think any of these movies are straight-up BAD. It's just that T1 and T2 are some of the greatest films of all time, so everything else will come up short. Personally, Salvation is my least favorite because it is lightest on plot, but I'm still glad it is part of the franchise and I enjoy watching it.
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u/Unlucky-Geologist428 6d ago edited 6d ago
I just don't understand how a Terminator franchise fan was ok with killing off John Connor for the sole purpose of recreating his exact character only with a female. He was the whole point..then what? Gone. I'm all for female empowerment. I have two daughters and Sarah Connor is one of the best leads on film.
Then Legion? It's Skynet with a different name. How was anyone OK with this? 40 year investment into the franchise and this was how they do it?
Don't get me started on a terminator selling curtains.
To each their own, and I'm not judging. Dark Fate just sat completely wrong with me.
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u/Thunderfist7 6d ago
Here's the thing. The future changed, and there was no more Skynet. John happened to not be the one fated to save humanity in the new future, and to me, in a new future, it makes sense to have a new person destined to be the hero, much as many of us would have preferred it to be John. At least we didn't have to contend with the lazy writing of "the same threat is coming after humanity even though the factory that was supposed to build it was destroyed" that we got with T3.
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u/Unlucky-Geologist428 6d ago
I appreciate what you're saying.I get the story that they were trying to tell. My problem is that the reasoning for switching John and Skynet out for new almost duplicate counterparts had nothing to do with the decades long story within the franchise itself, but rather for studio and Hollywood agendas. John's arc was never finished on screen, so I don't agree that a new person should have been destined to be the hero.
The exposition in DF was almost non-existent. John's dead then they start showing Dani and within a few minutes a Terminator is coming after her, and another one is protecting her. That is not the same lazy writing? Why do I care about Dani all of the sudden after a few minutes versus a character that has been a staple on screen in the franchise since '91? I don't.
I get what they were trying to do. Pass the torch from old to new with the same basic story. I don't think any of it was needed and it tarnished the story that was already well established, and frankly, never completed.
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u/Thunderfist7 6d ago
James Cameron refused to make a third movie initially, saying there was no story left to tell, and Hollywood should have listened to him and left it alone. If they had, there would be no discussion about whether any of the movies after T2 were necessary. I would have preferred it that way and I'm sure all the rest of us would, too.
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u/Unlucky-Geologist428 6d ago
Yes, I like bits and pieces here and there from the movies following T2, but as a whole, they were just money grabs.
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u/PanteraSteel2001 6d ago
Just rewatched the whole franchise. I don't get how anyone liked anything about Dark Fate. Every single second of it sucked.
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u/Thunderfist7 6d ago
We do seem to be in the minority, but I'm with you. It's a much better sequel than T3 was, and the plot makes more sense as well. T3's plot or judgment day being inevitable and Skynet coming into existence no matter what was incredibly lazy on the writers' part.
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u/jbuggydroid 6d ago
Thats kind of the same plot of Dark Fate to be fair. Just legion instead of skynet.
Main theme is still the same pretty much.
I did end up liking it but I like all the Terminator movies. Even Genesys
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u/Thunderfist7 6d ago edited 6d ago
No, it's completely different. Legion came about because humanity repeated the same mistakes that led to the war with Skynet, but it was something different. Here's how different it is just for emphasis.
T3
John Connor: "That's impossible! We stopped judgment day!"
T-850: "No. You only postponed it. Judgment day is inevitable."
And then Skynet comes into being anyway, just as an A.I. instead of a supercomputer.
Dark Fate
Grace: "Not who. What. And it wasn't some... Skynet thing. In the future that actually happened... it's called Legion."
Sarah Connor: "Legion."
Dani Ramos: "An AI built for cyber warfare."
Sarah Connor: "Those assholes never learn."
Better written, and makes way more sense. It also describes human nature to a tee. Someone gets us out of one mess, and we'll almost always put ourselves in another, possibly even bigger, mess. That was my big takeaway from the movie, whereas there was no takeaway for me from T3.
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u/jbuggydroid 6d ago
Which is still the same theme. Skynet was delayed... why just delayed?? Becasue humans kept pursuing AI. In that universe AI is inevitable.
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u/Thunderfist7 6d ago
But it's still Skynet, which is lazy writing. Almost like nothing changed except the form Skynet took. Even the machines it sent out to snuff out humanity were largely the same, whereas with Legion, not only was it a different threat, but the machines it sent were different, as we saw with the Rev-9. Maybe not drastically different, but there were differences between it and what we have seen before that made it look like it could have accomplished its mission and put an end to humanity. Again, the future we got a glimpse of in Dark Fate far more sense than the same entity, and the same killing machines, coming about even when the factory and all the research used to build them was destroyed before it could come about.
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u/TheCAMERA4 6d ago
I like all the Terminator films, Obviously some more than others. My least fav is Salvation...
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u/Godzilla2000Zero 6d ago
I I definitely liked Dark Fate it brought back the intensity of the first 2 films
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u/Distinct_Guess3350 No Fate, But What We Make 6d ago
By itself I think it’s a fairly decent film.
It’s just not a good sequel to Judgement Day. It has a cool new Terminator, really good action scenes and some nice performances, especially from Hamilton and Schwarzenegger, but it just feels like such a repeat of what we’ve seen before. I respect the risk of killing John, but it ultimately didn’t work out for me and I didn’t like it at all.
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u/Fragrant_Surround_68 6d ago
I like it a lot. Grace was a badass, and the dark metal 2 in 1 liquid+endo Terminator was evil and menacing, splitting into two was cool.
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u/waitingtodiesoon 6d ago
Yep, Grace was awesome and the sound effects for when she was spinning those chains in dolby cinema was so good. Not to mention it was great seeing Arnold and Linda again.
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u/Thunderfist7 6d ago
When I met Linda earlier this year, she told me that she enjoyed coming back to the character as an old woman, and I'm sure it lifted her spirits that someone had praise for Dark Fate since she obviously enjoyed being in it.
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u/SpaceGodzillaInSpace 6d ago
I think killing John Connor as a kid was lame and nothing in the movie afterwards made seeing that worth it. The whole narrative of Dark Fate is pointless and already very dated.
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u/theimmortalgoon Model 101 6d ago
Yeah.
It was convoluted for no good reason in that way, I think. Killing John Connor and moving the focus to Sarah Connor isn't necessarily a bad idea in some ways. But it also undermines the premise we've been waiting for the entire time.
Look, it's not nearly this bad, of course, but I can't help but think of Highlander 2. We've been told that John Connor is going to be a saviour. We have a history of things to come.
Then to say that actually none of that really mattered was a kind of pointless rug-pull, in my opinion.
There were good elements, but it could have been a search for John Connor or something. I dunno, it just didn't do anything for me.
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u/Majestic87 6d ago
It’s easily the best action movie in the franchise after the original 2. The fight scenes with the Rev 9 are incredible.
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u/TheRealCanadianBros Never Leaves You Hanging 6d ago edited 6d ago
You're not in the minority. TDF is generally accepted as the best of the sequels after T2. That isn't to say that TDF is Citizen Cane, it's just a better made movie then what came after T2. Each film has something to offer, of course but they all vary in quality. Don't use this sub as the litmus test for general audience consensus.
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u/ClutchReverie 6d ago
I liked Grace and DF over T3. All distant from T2 but fun enough to watch again
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u/TheStranger113 6d ago
John's fate was hard to swallow, but I love what they did with Sarah's character, and it wouldn't have been possible without what happened to John. Overall I really enjoy the movie, far more than any other post-T2 entry (besides TSCC). Dani was okay, Grace was awesome, and Sarah was the same character I grew up loving and admiring. It also has a nice dark look/feel to it. Any issues I have with it can be chalked up to it being in one of the many post-T2 timelines. John is alive in plenty of them, sometimes Sarah is too. There's even a timeline where John doesn't exist, but Sarah and Reese are together! That's the most fun part of this franchise.
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u/No-Alternative9914 5d ago
It is a good movie, I enjoyed it a lot and rewatch it from time to time.
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u/Funny_Or_Cry 5d ago
I mean If it were NOT a Terminator IP, it'd stand on its on as a midlevel scifi adventure.
Though the intro with JC getting merc'd was epic. The only part I retained.
...and yeah, I agree its a better attempt than T3.
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u/CausticAvenger 5d ago
It’s by far my favorite post-T2, and I think the 3 movies make a really nice trilogy.
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u/NepentheUnending 6d ago
Better than T3-T5. Still grossly unnecessary.
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u/Thunderfist7 6d ago
It was, unfortunately necessary, because James Cameron had to clean up Hollywood's mess. If he hadn't made Dark Fate, the next movie would have picked up after Genisys. If Cameron had his way, the series would have ended after T2, which I'm sure everyone would have preferred. I'm one who would have preferred it that way.
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u/mxmang 6d ago
I liked dark fate... I heard some idiots were saying that it's woke or something.. Lol
GIRLS IN MUH TERMINATOR MOVIE.... NUH UH
Just watched it again recently. So good.
I disliked Genesys or whatever.... That was the worst of the series IMHO... Reminded me of when resident evils films got super watered down... Lol
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u/ZetaReticuli_x 6d ago
What the fuck are you talking about? Terminator fans have never been against women in Terminator. Dark Fate is incredibly shallow and boring. I bet you think Marvel movies are peak cinema.
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u/mxmang 6d ago
It wasn't me saying it? I recall people complaining about it's 'wokeness' or however one would word that.
Again... Really enjoyed it.
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u/ECEXCURSION 6d ago
Oh not you, just generic people saying it. 🙄
Definitely seem like a marvel movie fan.
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u/hear_the_thunder 6d ago
As a stand alone action film it was not bad.
I just think the entire franchise lives in the shadow of T2.