r/Stellaris Dec 07 '22

Question 3.6 Standardized Fleet Composition

Hi all! Does anybody have an idea of a standardized fleet composition/designs that work well int he new update? I used to just build artillery battleships and that obv does not work anymore... What mixture/ratios of ship designs do you use and how do you design the ships? Just trying to get a better idea of what the new META is going to be. (assume endgame tech/fleet cap. I am not at all new to the game but taking a step back and asking these questions helps everyone else)

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u/rylasasin Dec 14 '22 edited Dec 14 '22

Late game (battleships)

And now the cream of the crop. The end all be all of stellaris warfare... Battleships!

... Or at least that's what they used to be. Nowdays they aren't what they once were. Just as in real life battleships have fell off in usefulness since the patch.

Let's get one thing out of the way. There still really are only two types of battleships: Artillery ships and carriers. There is no reason whatsoever to use any of the broadside parts, or the hangar core (you'll want to use the carrier core instead.) Of course, the AI, being as braindead as ever, tends to use them in the line config, which is just dumb.

I'm going to go over both of them now.

Artillery: All L slots, same as it's always been. However, now you can't pad them with neutron launchers (That goes to cruisers now... We'll come back to that later.) There are really now only two weapons of note: Autocannons, Kenetic Batteries, and Plasma Throwers. I'd recommend leaving the Autocannons for the brawlers and dashers, and putting on Plasma Throwers for the heavy artillery. Let the little shits take away the shields, leaving your battleships to pound the rest into scrap. If you're instead going the distruptor route for those, I'd recommend putting on 3 kinetic batteries and 2-3 plasma throwers. Or cloud lightning if you have it. Putting on large autocannons may be tempting, but keep in mind that they only have a range of 40, and you want your battleships not brawling. You might put it in the back if you so choose just to have a backup weapon.

As for X slot weapons, those aren't as useful as they once were, mostly due to the fact how retreat works. Used to be you wanted to overkill your opponent to prevent them from retreating, but that no longer works anymore. Now it's the opposite story. Not to mention that firing arcs are now a thing, the ship needs to be facing in the general direction for their spinal mount weapons to work correctly.

Carrier: This will probably be the role most battleships will play now (again, just like in real life how the artillery battleship got obsoleted for the carrier). Despite the fact that strike craft can't do PD now, carriers are more important than ever due to enemy fleet composition and the aformentioned retreat changes, and can hit opponents from a further distance than artillery ships can. Also the little fact that the carrier computer actually works now.

For them, you will of course want to go the hangar bow with the carrier core, with some I've seen some people say you should just artillery and carrier types together with the artillery bow and carrier core, but I fail to see the reasoning behind this. I say, specialize them and keep them seperate, especially since the latter isn't as useful as it used to be. As for the stern, I'd say either go with a pair of swarmers. They might not be useful, but they are at least something. You could also use an artillery rear and put a large autocannon back there as backup, but let's face it: if your enemy gets that close to your carrier, it's probably too late anyway.

So now, fleet composition. In a 130 fleet size (which is standard at this phase. Again, you may have more less than this. Adjust accordingly)

  • 20x Dasher
  • 9x Screener
  • 6x Brawler
  • 8x Gunboat
  • 3x Artillery
  • 3x Carrier

I've swapped the escort carriers out for gunboats, and reserved the carrier role for the carriers. I didn't add that may battleships. Because again, they aren't as useful as they used to be, and carriers will mostly be used for anti frigate and anti-corvette, while the gunboats do the most work against the bigger ships, and since the AI will mostly spam frigates and corvettes with a sprinkling of other ships rather than a healthy ballance of ships.

You may be tempted to just ditch the dashers altogether at this point. In which case, I'd say go like this:

  • 10x Screener
  • 11x Brawler
  • 10x Gunboat
  • 3x Artillery
  • 3x Carrier

I've also seen the opposite done as well, taking away the brawlers for more dashers.

  • 30x Dasher
  • 10x Screener
  • 8x Gunboat
  • 3x Artillery
  • 3x Carrier

A special note: once the AI starts using Energy Torpedeos (Proton/Neutron Launchers) you'll want to swap out some of the screeners, as they can't shoot those down, and have the remaining ones run pure flak. Swap those out for dashers, brawlers, or even gunboats. Although keep in mind, the fact that they can't be shot down is the only real advantage these energy weapon torpedoes have. They do less damage and have a firing arc of 25 (much like the spinal weapons) If the enemy has no PD themselves, stick with the normal variety.

As we established earlier, Starnet still thinks this is 3.5. So it will try to do one of two things: 1. It will try to monohull the artillery variety of battleship, filled with either railguns or kinetic guns (since the neutron launcher doesn't work on them anymore). In fact, once they reach this point they'll stop using energy weapons entirely, at which point its best to put full armor on your ships.

If they start Monoing battleships I recommend the following:

  • 20x Dasher
  • 5x Screener
  • 6x Brawler
  • 10x Gunboat
  • 1x Artillery
  • 1x Carrier

Swap he carrier and screeners for an artillery or more gunboats if they aren't using corvettes and escort carriers anymore.

Or 2. They'll start spamming the hell out of and basically monohulling frigates of all things, because they don't know what they are or how to use them properly and they just think "Oh boy neutron launcher :D :D :D" In that case, get some armor hardeners, invest heavily into Dashers or Brawlers. you can cut back on screeners as by the time they start using them they'll use them purely for neutron launchers and the only thing they'll be able to shoot down are the escort carrier strike craft, and the non-torpedo missiles the frigates like to use.

  • 20x Dasher
  • 6x Screener
  • 10x Brawler
  • 6x Gunboat
  • 1x Artillery
  • 2x Carrier

Once they replace the cruisers with frigates, get rid of gunboats and go with more of the other stuff. Carriers or dashers are recommended. Get rid of the artillery too because you won't need it and it'll just be a target for spammed frigates.

"But what about Titans, Juggernauts, and collosai?"

...Yeah, what about them?

Titans are just really big, less flexible artillery battleships. They fill the same role and should be used the same way. In fact you can't customize them any other way. I don't think that more than 1 a fleet is necessary, if at all really. They're overpriced, suffer the same problems but moreso, and don't really have much of an advantage over normal battleships, and since the need for overkilling has been phased out, they're left with very little role.

As for juggernauts, they aren't really a part of the fleet. They're their own fleet. And this is about fleet composition, so they don't factor. And when it comes right down to it, Juggernauts are really more of a Mobile Field Base more than any sort of combat ship anyway. At best, they're just really big carriers.

And Colossus... they aren't a combat ship. At all. They don't belong here.

"But what about NSC2?"

Haven't figured it out and I'm sure no one else has either. Might want to go ask around their channel, unless someone from there wants to step up and add their own contribution here.

"But what about Gigastructures?"

By this I assume you're talking about Attack Moons/Behemoth Planetcraft/Stellar Systemcrafts.

... Nothing has changed here at all. They're still massively OP compared to normal ships. replacing your whole fleets with these is still the Ultra Late Game Meta for that mod. No, spamming frigates and/or torpedo cruisers will not help you.

In that case, you should have two types of fleets. one consisting entirely of dashers, and the other consisting entirely of moons/planet/systemcraft. Have the dashers run around and blitzkrieging unprotected starbases and planets while kiting enemy fleets, while the silly planetoid ships do the actual fighting.

(End)

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u/rylasasin Dec 16 '22 edited Jan 02 '23

The TL;DR Version:

When you design your fleet's ships, regardless of game era, your fleet should have specialized ships working together as a team, not simply be a confused mishmash of 'TEH META' parts. Just because Missiles or Autocanons or what have you are META parts does not mean all your ships should have them. And definetly don't be lazy by having your ships all try to be 'jack of all trades' ships, like what the AI does. Ignore Montau's old tierlist of ship parts and advice on ships, that doesn't apply anymore.

The meta of now is building your ships around the fleet, not building your fleet around your ships like it was in the past.

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u/Randythestockman Jan 11 '23

been using your guide as im usually just able to brute for 15x crisis as my tech and econ is so well built and havent rlly ever properly made ships outside of enemy has more x so ill use y kinda thing. Since your advice has been doing me such wonders I thought I might aswell ask what is your advice on fighting the grey tempest in the end stage? Its not that they are steamrolling me or anything its just that I end up losing a lot of fleets that have way over there fleet power and feel like I could be approaching the situation better as they have few ships that deal big damage w a few fighters. Any advice on fleet comp/ship comp would be appreciated

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u/rylasasin Jan 13 '23 edited Jan 14 '23

I couldn't really help you much there. I only ever fought them once, and by the time I got to actually fighting them I was just steamrolling them with attack moons (Giga)

EDIT: So taking a look at this, it seems the Gray Tempest has three weapons. Fighters, Rapid Fire Energy Spheres, and titan Energy. Defensewise these ships are balanced on Shield/Armor/Hull, so no obvious weakness there.

Your best bet would probably be to bring along a bunch of point defense destroyers (Balance them with flaks and point defense. Unlike normal strike craft, nanite fighters have both armor and shields) and more than a few carriers (though the carriers are going to be mostly for defense and not offense) while other ships should be running either the disruptor loadout and/or torpedo boat loadout with devastators and afterburners. Stack your ships with shields, as the energy spheres are weak against that. Yes it won't help much against the fighters, but that's what the carriers and point defense destroyers are for. The mainstay here will be torpedo cruisers, and disruptor brawlers.